Train derailment.

[Chobham]

Lets say you're correct that the leading cause is human error. Sounds like we need better training, perhaps better hours. I don't know how many hours these people work or how many days in a row. However when these people were fighting a few months back for a few days of sick leave each year I have to assume its a brutal schedule. I work in a warehouse. Ten hour days six days a week is not unheard of and at some point you become a danger to yourself and others.

If the second is rail failure this is a multibillion dollar industry. If you have to inspect every single inch of road no less than once a month, more often for heavily traveled routes get people on that. This also sounds like a damn good reason to build more rail just to cut back on wear and tear and allow other routes to be taken while this line gets basic maintence.

The third might be unavoidable since I have no idea what goes into train maintence. It sounds fixable. Maybe there needs to be a top to bottom inspection and tune up every 'x'. I won't pretend to know enough about trains to know how often this would need to be. But I rotate my tires, get oil changes, sometimes a tune up for no real reason to keep my car going.

I accept that shit happens. We can minimize how often it happens. The fact that this happens SO often that it usually doesn't even make the news is pretty terrifying.

You're asking some relevant questions but the problem is that we have NO breakdown on the nature of those "human errors." To assume that they were all as a result of rail employee's actions is as reckless as it is to assume that none of them were. Without a breakdown on all of the causes by type neither one of us can answer that question. That being said, your observation is worthy of note.

Rail failure includes a whole category of sub-failures. These failures can also include failures caused by third parties intentional or accidental. I know that the major operators stay on top of their rail maintenance for obvious reasons.

I return to "where it makes sense." The majority of the nations goods travel by rail. Crippling the industry with overarching regulations will only drive those goods to be moved by trucks, a far more dangerous form of transport not to mention far less 'green.'

 

[Lazaran]

Yeah, there WILL ALWAYS be derailments.

Eliminating the cause of derailments is one prong of responsive / responsible action. - Adding ECP brakes, etc, to trains (especially those carrying toxic / flammable materials) is another.

Prioritizing safety is competing against prioritizing corporate profits and executive pay.

Same as it ever was.

SAD!!!

 

[ll74]

Oh look, if you put more focus on their inspections, they find more things that cause accidents.

But sure.....putting more regulations to pressure them to inspect better is a bad thing.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/tran...wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

 

[Sean Renaud]

You're asking some relevant questions but the problem is that we have NO breakdown on the nature of those "human errors." To assume that they were all as a result of rail employee's actions is as reckless as it is to assume that none of them were. Without a breakdown on all of the causes by type neither one of us can answer that question. That being said, your observation is worthy of note.

Rail failure includes a whole category of sub-failures. These failures can also include failures caused by third parties intentional or accidental. I know that the major operators stay on top of their rail maintenance for obvious reasons.

I return to "where it makes sense." The majority of the nations goods travel by rail. Crippling the industry with overarching regulations will only drive those goods to be moved by trucks, a far more dangerous form of transport not to mention far less 'green.'

Like I said I think you can make some reasonable assumptions. People who have to fight for a measily 7 days off are PROBABLY overworked Maybe that's not the case, I think we would be wise to at least start with observing other nations to see how often this happens to them. A couple weeks back I heard about a French railworker who straight at end of his shift just left a bunch of people stranded. I think a BETTER solution would have been to have a second conductor so when his shift was over he could clock out (however they handle that) and tag out but that's a very different problem.

I get that rail failure is complex, more complex than I am capable of making an accurate assesment of. There have to be ways to minimize this and in a country that is profit driven to an absurd degree I'm willing to make that bet. I mean how often have we heard in the auto industry that when there is a known defect the companies do the math that comes down to how expensive is a recall vs how expensive is losing lawsuits. I kind wonder how profitable the good will would be of a recall. I know if I buy a new car and see a commercial saying "Hey these models from these years have a defect that could cause the brakes to fail or what not" that would give me faith that they care about people.

I always hear the trucks are more dangerous but I've never seen anybody produce any sort of numbers. Like are they more likely to fail or do they do more damage per capita. Cus I figure even the numbers were similar or identical to how many trucks get into accidents one 18 wheeler has to do less damage than a twenty car train. They are probably easier to clean up with the only thing that is truly worse being unless a train derails in a very specific location its only dangerous to the people onboard. A truck flips on the freeway who knows many cars pile up behind it. Especially in the rain, more so in place where people have little experience driving in the rain. Sure THIS year has been hell for So Cal but most years we don't get much and most of it at night. One of the first things I tell employers when I'm getting hired is I've been in two major accidents in my life and both involved the rain. If its pouring outside don't look for me, I'm at home playing Mario Kart. I probably called in or whatever the process is at this particular company but I'm telling you right now I'm not here. So whatever you wanted from me, tell it to the frogs. Where as someone from Florida probably knows exactly what a safe following distance is.

Note: I'm not accusing you of lying, I just hear a lot of facts thrown around on various subjects that sound like absolute bullshit. Or their a part true. Like recycling costs more money than just tossing it. Turns out its true, for plastic bottles, cans and glass, not so much

 

[phrodeau]

Where as someone from Florida probably knows exactly what a safe following distance is.

Not a chance.

 

[Sean Renaud]

They drive in the rain all the time. They should know how to handle it.

 

[Bray123]

Derailments shouldn't always happen. Things go wrong through poor infrastructure, poor maintenance, poor users.

So build and maintain tracks & trains properly, automate out driver errors (speed limits on curves etc) and hey presto the railways could be as safe as other developed countries.
Plus build bridges and get rid of those crossings where trucks keep on being wiped out (I know, YouTube will lose a lot of business). Get the firearms industry to sponsor the changes, they've got plenty of spare cash and need some good publicity.

 

[ll74]

Before seat belts and airbags, automobile accidents typically resulted in people being thrown through their windshields.

It's called R&D and oversight and regulations

 

[oggbashan]

Derailments shouldn't always happen. Things go wrong through poor infrastructure, poor maintenance, poor users.

So build and maintain tracks & trains properly, automate out driver errors (speed limits on curves etc) and hey presto the railways could be as safe as other developed countries.
Plus build bridges and get rid of those crossings where trucks keep on being wiped out (I know, YouTube will lose a lot of business). Get the firearms industry to sponsor the changes, they've got plenty of spare cash and need some good publicity.

Partof the problem is the long distances that US railroads travel.

In the UK and Europe, track is laid (and maintained) to a much higher standard. That is only possible becuase of the shorter disatances and the heavier traffic. Even preserved railways are now maintained to a higher standard than used to be feasible for main line running.

But derailments still occur.

 

[jaF0]

Duh!!!

Pro-Moscow voices tried to steer Ohio train disaster debate​

By DAVID KLEPPERtoday
WASHINGTON (AP) — Soon after a train derailed and spilled toxic chemicals in Ohio last month, anonymous pro-Russian accounts started spreading misleading claims and anti-American propaganda about it on Twitter, using Elon Musk's new verification system to expand their reach while creating the illusion of credibility.





Or is that Da?

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Norfolk Southern averages derailment every 3 days. The causes of derailments are known.

“Railroaders have been warning about the conditions that resulted in the derailment for years. They include the impact of Precision Scheduled Railroading and similar attendance schemes, endless cost-cutting by the railroads, a massive reduction in the size of the nationwide workforce, and a relaxation of inspection and maintenance. These have made the trains ticking time bombs. We all knew that something like this was bound to happen. In fact, it happens every day, where on average there are three derailments in the United States.”

What matters are the reasons why those policies were implemented in the first place. The easy answer is that the savings were passed up to high ranking officials in the form of huge bonuses. That is not incorrect, but misses a much greater point.

As a business, Norfolk Southern Corp. must extract profit while competing with other lines offering essentially the same product. If it reverses the named policies, Norfolk Southern ceases to be competitive and its profit margin will decline. Investors will turn to other ventures, and the railroad will eventually go bankrupt.

But Norfolk Southern doesn’t stand alone. All rail carriers face the same dilemma and must implement the same policies or they will lose their investors also. And rail lines are not Norfolk Southern’s only allies.

Download a market app, type NSC in the ticker line, and flip tabs to corporate investors. When I checked a few weeks ago, Vanguard was at the top of the list. Also in the list was the S&P. NSC has very heavy hitters behind it.

So saying, ‘we’ll we just have to regulate and stop this’ totally misses the problem. This simply isn’t possible under the capitalist system. And while we may SAY that ‘no one is above the law,’ the reality is that Capital very much is.

Attempting to coerce the rail industry to enact changes necessary to protect life will precipitate an outcry from mining corporations, steel making corporations, automakers, shipping lines and barge companies, seaports and on and on. All of them will band together to decry the slide into totalitarianism because the little people at byways like Flint, MI or East Palestine, OH don’t care to be retained as collective hostages to the machinations of powerful corporations which ARE the de facto if not the de jure US government.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Another report on developments in the railway industry.

“The railroad industry is the most profitable industry in America. Last year, Norfolk Southern reported profits of $3.2 billion, a record for the company. Rather than investing in infrastructure, let alone improving the conditions for workers, the company has spent $18 billion over the past five years in stock buybacks and dividends, that is, handouts to investors. The same pattern is present in all the major rail companies.”

 

[jaF0]

NTSB chair says Norfolk Southern interfered with derailment probe after botching vent-and-burn call​

U.S. News // 12 hours ago

NTSB criticizes venting, burning of chemicals after East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment
June 25 (UPI) -- Venting and burning vinyl chloride from derailed rail cars was a mistake after the 2023 train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, the National Transportation Safety Board announced Tuesday.

 

[Pad_Foot]

https://apnews.com/article/norfolk-...st-palestine-944991c7a44286aa9675995f5eb677f0​

U.S. News // 12 hours ago

NTSB criticizes venting, burning of chemicals after East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment
June 25 (UPI) -- Venting and burning vinyl chloride from derailed rail cars was a mistake after the 2023 train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, the National Transportation Safety Board announced Tuesday.

But?!!! The burn pits in Iraq were so effective!!