trangendered

[Etoile]

Because a person has a different opinion then yours doesnt mean they are disrespectful.

I truly appreciate your thoughtful post. I did not say you were disrespectful because we have different opinions. I said you were disrespectful because you were insisting that there is no way a man can ever become a woman, which is in direct conflict with the fact that many transgender women do consider themselves women. When someone says "now I am a woman" and you say "no, you're wrong, you can never be a woman" - that is disrespectful to them. It has nothing to do with whether they are right or you are right or I am right. It is about calling someone a liar, which is what you are doing when you insist that a man can never become a woman.

I also found your recent post to me to be disrespectful, but that's a different issue.

That said, I appreciate your post very much. You have demonstrated that you are understanding of the complex issues involved here. Thank you.

 

[MyFriend27]

I truly appreciate your thoughtful post. I did not say you were disrespectful because we have different opinions. I said you were disrespectful because you were insisting that there is no way a man can ever become a woman, which is in direct conflict with the fact that many transgender women do consider themselves women. When someone says "now I am a woman" and you say "no, you're wrong, you can never be a woman" - that is disrespectful to them. It has nothing to do with whether they are right or you are right or I am right. It is about calling someone a liar, which is what you are doing when you insist that a man can never become a woman.

I also found your recent post to me to be disrespectful, but that's a different issue.

That said, I appreciate your post very much. You have demonstrated that you are understanding of the complex issues involved here. Thank you.

Well if i disrespected you it wasnt intentional

 

[Tymeless]

I truly appreciate your thoughtful post. I did not say you were disrespectful because we have different opinions. I said you were disrespectful because you were insisting that there is no way a man can ever become a woman, which is in direct conflict with the fact that many transgender women do consider themselves women. When someone says "now I am a woman" and you say "no, you're wrong, you can never be a woman" - that is disrespectful to them. It has nothing to do with whether they are right or you are right or I am right. It is about calling someone a liar, which is what you are doing when you insist that a man can never become a woman.

I also found your recent post to me to be disrespectful, but that's a different issue.

That said, I appreciate your post very much. You have demonstrated that you are understanding of the complex issues involved here. Thank you.

though it is very nice when women accept us as women then it has as much meaning as us accepting it ourselves.

 

[Etoile]

Etoile,

Part of the problem may be that even if someone has SRS and hormone tx and lives as a female, they still have the physical risks assoicated with having been born a male.

Prostate cancer does not happen to a female.

So when you imply someone has changed successfully from male to female, they didn't fully. Cuz at this time no one can.

The language doesn't exsist yet for a person who successfully goes thru a transistion to live and be as close as possible to the other sex physically.

I think the same way some object to using the word marriage for same sex couples, they object to the words male and female or man and woman when applied to someone who was born the opposite of what they live as now.

It's the words, not necessarily people objecting to your choices.

IMHO

Hi tribbles,

I still think this is an issue of "real" vs "not real." I happen to think there are certain types of women who can get prostate cancer...it's because they were born as men, not because they're not women. Similarly, there are certain types of men who can get ovarian cancer...not because they're not men, but because they were born as women.

I disagree that we have no word for it. In my view, the word is "man" or "woman." The chromosomes, the genitals, none of it matters...in my view, the only thing that matters is how someone identifies themself. I know plenty of people - mostly FTM's - who identify as male but look female. I don't care what they look like - if they identify as male, then to me they are male. I guess maybe my view is the odd one here.

 

[Tymeless]

Hi tribbles,

I still think this is an issue of "real" vs "not real." I happen to think there are certain types of women who can get prostate cancer...it's because they were born as men, not because they're not women. Similarly, there are certain types of men who can get ovarian cancer...not because they're not men, but because they were born as women.

I disagree that we have no word for it. In my view, the word is "man" or "woman." The chromosomes, the genitals, none of it matters...in my view, the only thing that matters is how someone identifies themself. I know plenty of people - mostly FTM's - who identify as male but look female. I don't care what they look like - if they identify as male, then to me they are male. I guess maybe my view is the odd one here.

i personally think your view is the best to have. the world would be alot less aggrevating place if it was like that as a whole etoile

 

[Wolfman1982]

I think I have said it before. If Julie wants to be called Julian, then he is called Julian. If Kim wants to be called Kimmy, then I will call her Kimmy.

 

[tribbles]

thank you my friend and i hope i have helped you understand transpeople in general. If it wasn't for people wanting to do mean and evil things to transpeople in general i would have no problems always identifying as a male to female transexual. After all its just words, and i'm just getting the body i want, but being classified as a transexual comes with risk and hard questions that need answered like which bathroom to use, etc use the womens room and they find out you have a penis the freak, use the mens room and you look like a woman and they freak.

This makes the reason for only identifying yourself as male or female, rather than trans or any other word that is invented to mean "not born as physically but one now', understandable.

 

[StrixVaria]

Kabukistar,

Now that I understand your view a little better, I' would have to say that we share some common ground. Thanks for being open and thoughtful, it helps.

I would offer this though, think about the impact that insisting that a trans person will "never be" their destination gender has on that person. These folk carry around enough self-doubt and agnst to cover the rest of the populatiion for all of recorded history. Please be careful of the impact of your words.

That said, I can tell you that the time that they invest in selfdiscovery yeilds some of the most wonderful personalities that you will ever encounter. The fires of scorn that they wander through during transition tend to make these folk a true joy to know.

I would suggest possibly getting to know a few of them on a social level. It will be worth your time. It will probably also broaden that grey line and give you reason to believe that it should be more permeable than it currently is.

 

[Tymeless]

Kabukistar,

Now that I understand your view a little better, I' would have to say that we share some common ground. Thanks for being open and thoughtful, it helps.

I would offer this though, think about the impact that insisting that a trans person will "never be" their destination gender has on that person. These folk carry around enough self-doubt and agnst to cover the rest of the populatiion for all of recorded history. Please be careful of the impact of your words.

That said, I can tell you that the time that they invest in selfdiscovery yeilds some of the most wonderful personalities that you will ever encounter. The fires of scorn that they wander through during transition tend to make these folk a true joy to know.

I would suggest possibly getting to know a few of them on a social level. It will be worth your time. It will probably also broaden that grey line and give you reason to believe that it should be more permeable than it currently is.

your very sweet!

 

[StrixVaria]

You don't sit next to Erin Swenson in the choir without some of that "Cool Vibe" wearing off on you.

 

[Tymeless]

You don't sit next to Erin Swenson in the choir without some of that "Cool Vibe" wearing off on you.

don't know who Erin Swenson is but she sounds cool