USS Winston Churchill....

[Flagg]

And another thing

Originally posted by a fuckin' idiot

Speaking of ballsy Brits…
I have the highest regard for Churchill but I would also like to see a tribute to Margaret Thatcher. She was a staunch British battle-ax with a backbone that the world respected, charm that put Parliament in awe, and wit that kept most of her opponents off-center! She was a remarkable woman.

If I'd been walking along the riverside and spotted you in the process of drowning BEFORE you made that remark I'd have saved you.

[Edited by Flagg on 03-12-2001 at 07:28 AM]

 

[Deborah]

Margaret Thatcher is a true heroine.

 

[alexander tzara]

You spelled that wrong, Debz. Margaret Thatcher is true Heroin - 98% pure according to my latest toxicology report. It's believed that the highest concentration of opiate in the Iron Maiden is located in her tongue. I've been unnable to test this myself, as it's currently lodged somewhere in Ronald Raegan's bowel.

[Edited by alexander tzara on 03-12-2001 at 07:49 AM]

 

[Deborah]

You spelled that wrong, Alexander (Raegan).

If Margaret was still cracking the whip they wouldn't be looking for a few good men on the White Island.

I suggest a ship be named in her honor.

 

[alexander tzara]

I Ain't gonna work on Maggie's Farm No More

If Margaret was still cracking the whip they wouldn't be looking for a few good men on the White Island.

I suggest a ship be named in her honor.

They tried that already. It sank as soon as it hit water. They forgot to hollow out her cold steel heart.

 

[OUTSIDER]

I hope never to see any ship named after Thacher in my life time as she was possibly the most devisive(sp) leader's the UK has ever had and her decision to test the poll tax on the Scot's is in my view the reason they voted for devolution once they got the chance, had she not done that then the Scot's may never have left the union....but after the shitty way Westminster treated them you can't blame them at all for bailing out and take their own destiny in their own hand's.
BTW they wanted to make Thacher a hereditary peer after she left the PM's job but they decided not to because her son is a crook and they didn't want him to become a lord.
I'm sorry but you Americans like her a shit load more than we ever will and as far as I'm concerned you can keep her.

 

[alexander tzara]

Yes. The French gave you The Statue Of Liberty. We now present you with Margaret Thatcher. Just plant them side-by-side.

 

[genderbender]

I take exception MP...

...You think Abraham Lincoln wrote the Gettysburg Address?

MP

Yes, actually I do think Abraham Lincoln wrote the Gettysburg Address. As I read you're fine post, all of which I heartily agree with, these words tickled my memory of reading about Lincoln completing his speech on a piece of scrap paper before he was to present it. His speech followed that of another politician who spoke at length. I checked the web out of curiosity and came across the link below which suggests my memory was not too far off.

http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/gadd/gadrft.html

Having said that, I agree with your point that most politicians are speaking words others have given them. Witness the Shrub, only barely able to read what is running across the teleprompter. Even if Churchill used speech writers, no one could ever accuse him of being short on words of great elegance. Anyone doubting that should read his excellent works of history.

Oops, just finished the thread and saw all those smarties who beat me to the punch. That's what comes from having a life away from the BB

[Edited by genderbender on 03-12-2001 at 12:01 PM]

 

[Jake2001]

I hope never to see any ship named after Thacher in my life time as she was possibly the most devisive(sp) leader's the UK has ever had and her decision to test the poll tax on the Scot's is in my view the reason they voted for devolution once they got the chance, had she not done that then the Scot's may never have left the union....but after the shitty way Westminster treated them you can't blame them at all for bailing out and take their own destiny in their own hand's.
BTW they wanted to make Thacher a hereditary peer after she left the PM's job but they decided not to because her son is a crook and they didn't want him to become a lord.
I'm sorry but you Americans like her a shit load more than we ever will and as far as I'm concerned you can keep her.

I admit to drawing my opinion of Margaret Thatcher from the perspective of one not affected by her politics internal to the UK. I seem to have hit a nerve here and I was certainly not prepared for the onslaught of negativity that it brought about. I'll plead to being ignorant but will pass on being an idiot (considering the source).

Outsider, I would like to hear more about why y'all feel so strongly; specifically concerning her dealings with/against Scotland. What is a poll tax?

Again, from an American perspective, I have seen stones thrown by the Scots at the likes of England and the British Parliament but I am not aware of Scotland withdrawing from the Union. Is this a sentiment (Thatcher-bashing) shared by the majority in Great Britain?

My interest is sincere and would appreciate the aspersions (and flames) thrown be set-aside for someone more deserving of them. If you happen to know of some web sites that I can study on my own, I would be appreciative of that too.

 

[OUTSIDER]

jake you have mail

 

[Jake2001]

Outsider

I got the email and found it very enlightening. Thank you. I will follow up as you suggested.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Always glad to help, I forgot to mention that she also killed the steel and mining industries in this country to.

 

[mig]

Jesus! More crap from both north and south of the border.Maggie may not have been the greatest but she's a damn sight better than the two oiks that followed.The way that Blair's going we'll end up part of Germany anyway.

 

[OUTSIDER]

over my dead body

 

[Handy-Andy]

LMAO. How's Mr Ben , OUTSIDER , just love your sig line It bring's back sooo many childhood memories .

 

[mig]

Outsider-I,ll drink to that,no, not your dead body.Mine will be right next to it.

 

[Handy-Andy]

I'll third that OUTSIDER and Mig

And so will mine.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Mr Ben is in the changing room just putting on his costume, meanwhile the mice are just carving's on the mouse organ and even bagpuss is juat an old saggy cloth cat abit frayed at the seam's but Emily loves him.

 

[OUTSIDER]

good lord I've started a movement of British kamikaze's, they crash a plane into you while screaming "AWFULLY SORRY OLD BOY"

 

[OUTSIDER]

I really wanted to do the Clanger's for my sig line but how the hell to do it......?

 

[alexander tzara]

Outsider, I would like to hear more about why y'all feel so strongly; specifically concerning her dealings with/against Scotland. What is a poll tax?

Again, from an American perspective, I have seen stones thrown by the Scots at the likes of England and the British Parliament but I am not aware of Scotland withdrawing from the Union. Is this a sentiment (Thatcher-bashing) shared by the majority in Great Britain?

Scotland hasn't left the Union. As a country, it's still part of the United Kingdom, along with England, Wales and Northern Ireland. What Outsider meant was that a year or two ago, we got our own parliament (in Edinburgh), for the first time in around 300 years. This means that, to some extent, Scotland can make its own laws. Our prime minister is still Tony Blair, so power hasn't been completely devolved from London. There's one party - the Scottish Nationalist Party - who want complete devolution (Sean Connery is an outspoken supporter for them), meaning that Scotland would be a completely independent country, like the Republic of Ireland.

There's no direct relationship between the new Scottish Parliament and Thatcher's years in power, as far as I know.

Scotland, though, has traditionally had a strong working class identity. Scottish politics have tended to lean towards Socialism. In the UK, we don't have a two party system, like the US, but the reality is that two parties - the Conservatives/"Tories" on the right wing and Labour on the left - have dominated British politics since the first half of the 20th Century. The Conservatives are similar to the American Republican party, whereas the old-style Labour was vaguely equivalent to Democrats, only a lot more left wing. (Tony Blair's New Labour is closer in spirit to the Conservatives.)

Anyway, during Thatcher's reign, which many of us (especially the Welsh) blame for the cold, selfish, Yuppy, materialist attitudes that prevailed during the '80s, the majority of Scotland voted for Labour. If Scotland had been independent, it would have had a Labour government, rather than a Conservative one. Thatcher's policies were all geared towards making the rich richer and the poor poorer. As the majority of rich people live in the South of England, these were the voters her party geared policy towards.

Examples of how little the Conservatives cared about Scottish voters during Thatcher's years:

~ English pensioners were given a cold weather allowance to help pay for additional heating costs during bad winter months. Scottish pensioners weren't given it because "they're used to the cold weather up there". A lot of elderly people die in the winter months in the UK.

~ The Conservatives decided to bring in a new kind of Taxation, where every adult in a household had to pay tax monthly, not just the house-owners. They decided to try out this idea in Scotland first (Scotland - a Labour-supporting country: not going to lose any votes there, anyway). This was extremely unpopular but it was only eventually scrapped (I think a year or two later) when they brought the Poll Tax into England too and there was full-scale rioting in the streets.

I personally think that Thatcher, although she was possibly a strong female role-model, was a dangerous leader. The Conservative party was very much based around her personality rather than mass-agreed policies. She got the UK into at least one war (the Falklands War) that didn't have to happen. Her successor, John Major, was also a Conservative and was seen by many as boring. I think that was a good trait. It was during his term as leader that the first Ceasefire in Northern Ireland happened. I think the Middle Path is usually the best way in politics.

I think that during war times, you need a strong, charismatic but relatively stable leader, such as Winston Churchill (also a Conservative). I think someone like Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan is unstable and dangerous during war times. During peace times, I think that a fairly boring, but again stable, leader is best. I've never voted Conservative but I think John Major was ok. I don't like New Labour but Tony Blair doesn't particularly frighten me. I can't imagine him getting us into unneccessary wars just to win votes.
BTW - sorry about this big rant. I've probably got all my facts wrong - these are the views of somebody not that much interested in politics. I'm sure Flagg (or a Welsh ex-miner) would have even more to say on the subject.

 

[Handy-Andy]

ROTFLMAO . Clanger's , what a classic

 

[OUTSIDER]

See Jake2001 I told you Alexander Tzara would know more than me about it.
Handy Andy do you think they'd be ready for Tizwas...?

 

[Handy-Andy]

What and the Phantom Flan Flinger

 

[OUTSIDER]

LOL, Don't forget Smello and Compost Corner.