Ways to Shore Up My Marriage?

[Bobmi357]

I have been mulling this over all morning.

When one of the partners in a marriage is feeling a lack of something in the relationship, isn't it up toboth partners to try to find a solution?

I have not been getting a lot of support from MrB in this area. I'm beginning to think I never will.

Maybe I have it all wrong, though.

In a problem in the relationship, yes, it takes two to solve it. But judging from your earlier posts I'm still left wondering if your disatisfied with your life in general. Normally people can be very specific when it comes to relationship issues. But that hasn't been the case here.

 

[SweetErika]

I have been mulling this over all morning.

When one of the partners in a marriage is feeling a lack of something in the relationship, isn't it up toboth partners to try to find a solution?

I have not been getting a lot of support from MrB in this area. I'm beginning to think I never will.

Maybe I have it all wrong, though.

I think it depends on what the problem is. If it's really that you're bored or unhappy with yourself, your partner should support you in endeavors to change (within reason), but it's ultimately up to you. If the problem is something like you're not spending enough romantic time together, it's up to both of you to change together.

You've been married about 14 times longer than I have, but I've thought about and struggled with this a lot. Many times when I don't feel he's working to solve it, it's because he doesn't really feel there is a problem, or doesn't want to change anything. Sometimes I think a lot of men don't connect the dots or see the repercussions of doing nothing very well...they're kind of day-to-day creatures, and we tend to think long term. At other times, he may see the problem, but doesn't know what to do (or forgets), and he takes a course of inaction. There have also been situations where he thinks he's being really supportive and doing all he can, but I don't necessarily see it the same way.

As unromantic and difficult as it is, things seem to work out best when I tell him how I feel, talk about immediate and longterm possible outcomes, and give him specific things and examples of what he can do to work on it from his side. He usually makes an effort, and that's all I've come to expect.

 

[oddity83]

After us kids left my parents got a puppy, not sure if it will help but its a thought.

 

[Bobmi357]

Many times when I don't feel he's working to solve it, it's because he doesn't really feel there is a problem, or doesn't want to change anything. Sometimes I think a lot of men don't connect the dots or see the repercussions of doing nothing very well...they're kind of day-to-day creatures, and we tend to think long term. At other times, he may see the problem, but doesn't know what to do (or forgets), and he takes a course of inaction. There have also been situations where he thinks he's being really supportive and doing all he can, but I don't necessarily see it the same way.

OK. First thing. BG, check your pmbox.

Now ladies, men are pragmatic. This means we can tell when there is a problem with the car because we can see the smoke pouring from under the hood, or we know there is a plumbing problem because there is six inches of water on the floor in the kitchen.

Relationship problems are much harder. The problems aren't obvious. They don't stick in your face or smoke or spark, they don't make high pitched noises or rattle the house or blow circuit breakers. We have problems seeing sometimes because what we perceive to be an OK situation isn't in your eyes. This isn't because we're socially challenged or blind to your problems. Mostly I think its because we're raised in an environment where guys don't express their feelings easily. A guy in high school might brag about what a great lay his girlfriend is, but he would NEVER tell that same group of friends that he'd be willing to walk naked into the flames of hell for her. He would brag about her abilities in bed, but would NEVER reveal to his buddies that when she's away a part of him hurts like never before. We weren't programmed to talk about our feelings.

You ladies need to realize that one of the hardest things for men to do is talk, really talk about how they are feeling. You need to understand that silence you hear isn't because he doesn't want to talk about how he feels, its because he's embarassed and he lacks most of the vocabulary needed to express himself. Its easier for him to yell and fight than it is for him to have a heart to heart talk.

I talk with Alyx, its hard, its slow, I backtrack a lot, try to phrase and rephrase things so that it doesn't sound like I'm complaining or bitching. I practically stutter. Its not easy for me to do, I always dread doing it. I would rather stand up in front of an audience of hundreds and give a lecture than have a heart to heart talk with the woman I love. I've gotten better at it over the years (at least I think I have), but it is not something that comes naturally to me. I imagine most men probably feel the same way.

What you gals need to do, from day one of the relationship is realize that you have one job to do if you do nothing else. And thats to train your guy to talk to you. Its not really our fault we lack that ability. My parents are WWII generation. Married during the war and I can't imagine my mother and father ever sitting down and having a heart to heart talk. I was raised in a good family, but there was little outward shows of affection ever.

In the case of BG, she needs to grab Bob, sit him down, and make him understand the seriousness of the situation. Bob can't be expected to help her solve any problem until (a) he knows there is one and (b) how serious is actually is.

Now being a Bob, once he realizes whats happening I'm confident that both he and BG will work to fix things. Bobs are good problem solvers even if we are as dense as the rest of the male population.

 

[LadyJeanne]

What you gals need to do, from day one of the relationship is realize that you have one job to do if you do nothing else. And thats to train your guy to talk to you.

Thank you for your insights on men and the difficulty they have in communication. My SO tells me he really feels like he can talk with me, and I hardly know what to make of that as he's not so much into the talking thing when it's about deeper feelings and emotions. I'm not saying he doesn't do it, but I know it's hard for him.

Without wanting to hijack this thread, I'd love to hear some how-to's on the training. What would make a guy feel more comfortable in revealing his thoughts? How can I make it easier for him to do so?

 

[Iriadne]

Well, I speak from the stand point of wanting to prevent this problem from happening in my own life and since I'm currently planning a wedding I can't say that I really have any experience. I have, however, noticed that my SO and I have gotten much closer during the wedding planning so I might suggest a "re-wedding". I'm not thinking the drag out the dress you got married in and be depressed because it probably doesn't fit the way you remember it fitting kind of re-wedding but a completely new thing. Write your own vows, that relate to who you are now AND to who you were when you first got married. Say to hell with the traditional white dress and a church and go stand on the top of a mountain in a rennaissance gown if that's what makes both of you happy. Let there be contradictions to show who each of you are. Let him wear holey Reeboks and paint stained sweatpants while you wear heels and a tailored suit (or whatever makes you comfortable). This type of ceremony will make you both think about who you are and sometimes you can sleep with someone and fold their knickers and never really know who they see themselves as being.
Also, from observation, I've noted that sometimes men don't comment not because they don't care but because they don't know what to do. If someone is used to being able to fix all the problems he sees then saying "I'm sorry angel, I don't know how to make this better." can be an almost impossible thing to say. On that note, do you perhaps have a mutual friend whom both of you are close to who could moderate a discussion and translate from male to female and back again? Sometimes an outside perspective on some issues makes it easier for the involved parties to articulate thoughts without actually having to be articulate. That third person, who doesn't speak the shorthand of your relationship, might just be able to ask the question that neither of you has thought of yet.

 

[Bobmi357]

Without wanting to hijack this thread, I'd love to hear some how-to's on the training. What would make a guy feel more comfortable in revealing his thoughts? How can I make it easier for him to do so?

Start small. Pick one or two less controversial topics begin a conversation. The problem is that most men are really uncomfortable about expressing their feelings. Your guy may be willing to jump in front of a moving truck to save your life. But he'd also rather jump in front of that truck than say something to you which might be interperted as a complaint or say something which he feels, but which may hurt you in revealing it.

One way that worked well for me in the beginning was instead of talking face to face, we'd exchange emails. Email meant I had time to consider the precise wording. It meant I could take the time to examine what I was saying and how I was saying it. Its possible you'll never be able to get him to sit down and be 100% comfortable. But if you don't make that effort to draw him out and get him talking, he never will.

Using emails, you can exchange views back and forth until you're ready to go verbal with the topic. Don't use email to resolve the issue, but use it instead as a medium to get viewpoints expressed without fighting. Both of you have to agree that what's sent via email will remain in email until you both consent to bring the topic to the table.

I realize that if I had any flaws which contributed to the failure of my first marriage, it had to be the inability to express my feelings. With my second wife I realized I did not want to repeat the mistakes of the past. Talking to my second wife about issues isn't easy. It never has been and I doubt it ever will be. But its something I had to learn to do.

 

[SweetErika]

Thank you for all of your insights and advice, Bob! My husband doesn't come here very often, but I've asked him to read this thread because I'm curious to hear his opinions on this topic and your comments.

 

[Bobmi357]

Thank you for all of your insights and advice, Bob! My husband doesn't come here very often, but I've asked him to read this thread because I'm curious to hear his opinions on this topic and your comments.

Well just remember I'm speaking in general terms here. But generally speaking most men do not express their feelings well. A product of our up bringing I believe.

I'm just a humble.... ok, maybe not so humble guy trying to help shed a little light on the dark recesses of the male mind. So don't blame your guy for being dense ladies... if you want him to open up, you'll have to help him.

 

[Quoll]

All Hail The Great Bobmi.

Bob you will get expelled from the man`s club for revealing such secrets, no matter how true they are.
Please excuse me I f I repeat something already said, still a bit sleepy.

Speaking as one who has been emotionally constipated for a long time, some subtlety is required when speaking to men, about their feelings. eg: a brick or baseball bat , nothing too hard mind you.
Remove all distractions, computer, TV, etc, of course if you remove all these things, then the mans mind will return to default mode. So do not wear anything that in any way may be seen as provocative or overtly sexual.

Still haven`t got his attention, tell him your mother is coming to stay for a week.

Once you have got his attention that is half the battle won, explain to him in the simplest turns possible what the problem is.


Over the years my wife and I have somehow managed to turn things around to the point that all serious issues are discussed as soon as they arise, it is the small things that fester but they can be dealt with much easier.
An argument over which side of the sink the dirty dishes go on is not relationship threatening.

It has to be agreed together that anything important is discussed ASAP. Use the above method to start discussion.

 

[Bobmi357]

Bob you will get expelled from the man`s club for revealing such secrets, no matter how true they are.
Please excuse me I f I repeat something already said, still a bit sleepy.

Its ok, I have an alibi! I'll just claim Kissy hijacked my login and posted under my name. Then they can go reposess his penis instead of mine.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Bob, quoll - thank you. The truck thing is spot on. He's said almost exactly the same thing to me about wishing to avoid conflict. We actually deal with this fai rly well using email and the wierd trick of not staring directly at each other when we have these conversations. Sitting next to each other or maybe lying on the couch together, seems to work wonders.

It's actually tougher for him to express his positive emotions. He expresses them non-verbally and I'm thankful for that, but I love hearing the words. Why is that so hard for a man?

 

[Quoll]

Bob, quoll - thank you. The truck thing is spot on. He's said almost exactly the same thing to me about wishing to avoid conflict. We actually deal with this fai rly well using email and the wierd trick of not staring directly at each other when we have these conversations. Sitting next to each other or maybe lying on the couch together, seems to work wonders.

It's actually tougher for him to express his positive emotions. He expresses them non-verbally and I'm thankful for that, but I love hearing the words. Why is that so hard for a man?

It`s not that hard for a man, really, why just the other day I said to my wife, Babe you are..................................
..........................................................................................
..........................................................................................
................going to cook tea right! When what I wanted to say was you are looking so hot, I just want to have you right now over the kitchen sink.

It`s not always the obvious things that make a man want to say something nice or positive. Now I am not woman bashing ok, just trying to make sense, plus this is a one sided discussion on men. (blatant generalisations following)
If at any time a mans comments have been rejected, for any reason no matter how insignificant, the great male ego assumes the foetal position and may not come out for a very long time.
Even no answer at all can be seen as rejection.

Case in point, I once attempted to do a strip for my wife, now to say that I have no rhythm is the grossest understatemant ever. But my intentions were honourable, however she (probably with good reason) let out a little laugh, well that was the end of that, she has spent three years begging, pleading and apologising but mister ego is not coming out just yet.

Our timing is generally not good, we may find the fact that you are sweaty, your hair in a mess and scrubbing away like mad quite appealing, the untrained male may even approach for a cuddle or offer such wisdom as "my god I could really go for you right now. Now being the sexual creatures that woman are of course you will immediately stop what you are doing and service your man. Generally with a comment that will send him diving back into his cave.

I guess what I am trying to say is that he may have made comments or attempted affection, at the wrong time for you, and any sort of negative response will stop him from attempting these things again.
Treat him like a toddler, (the average age of the male ego) reward the good, accept a compliment even if you do feel bloated and psychotic, we can be taught, but we are stupidly fragile. (or is that just me)

"I don`t see what`s so wrong about doing it over the sink.......... Now why would I need a tea towel.......Oh, okay then........ after.? "

 

[Bobmi357]

It's actually tougher for him to express his positive emotions. He expresses them non-verbally and I'm thankful for that, but I love hearing the words. Why is that so hard for a man?

Well there are a lot of factors that stop men from expressing positive emotions. And forget about positive comments! My wife refuses to accept compliments of any sort, so I don't make them anymore. Thats her problem (Hi Alyx!!! You might not believe me, but I still think you're hot!!!), its not my problem. If she isn't willing to believe me....

Look at this as a developmental issue. Most guys spend times with their buddies growing up and will wax enthusiastic over a car, or a really great sports play. But saying something like "I'd like to hold my girlfriend and spend the rest of my life holding her" would be viewed as weak even if they all think the same way. Guys talk about things. Sports, automobiles, neat electronic toys, games, tools, work. Guys rarely talk about feelings. Hell, what happens a guy experiences a hard break up? His buddies get him drunk and tell him there are plenty of women out there. A girl settles down with her buddies and some Hagen Daz Ice Cream and disect the relationship picking out all "his" faults and making her feel better.

You don't see guys sitting around discussing some gal's reluctance to commit to a relationship. They (a) lack the verbal tools, (b) the inclination, and (c) the guts to do so. So instead they pretend to be hard and plan on new conquests even if they are weeping on the inside.

Another reason why we guys don't express our feelings all that often is you women don't trust us. Its all about motives. You think "Hmmm he complimented me about that new dress, either he did something and doesn't want me to know about, or he wants sex". Freud said it best when he said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". And often, a compliment is just a compliment.

For married men its ten times worse. A married man can get into soooo much trouble with a poorly chosen compliment! His comment "Honey, I love the way those new slacks highlight your butt!" can easily be mistaken for "He thinks my butt is fucking HUGE!!!!", or "He's telling me I should go on a diet?". Married men walk a veritable verbal minefield. Compliments can be misinterperted, innocent gestures can be misinterperted, even the not so innocent comments and gestures can be misinterperted.

The married man who loves his spouse runs through life wondering if what he says didn't sound corny and lame, or even offensive. The more he gets to know his wife, the less he really understands her.

And thats why guys aren't good with the positive comments.

 

[LadyJeanne]

So let's see if I have it right. According to quoll, the male ego is a fragile, delicate thing and must be nurtured and treated gently at all times. Much like a child, the adult male thrives with encouragement, validation, acceptance, and unbridled delight at any special talents. A negative word from the woman in his life will crush a man's ego and send him into therapy, if he does that sort of thing. If he doesn't, he'll just suffer silently and will not do or say anything that might lead to another ego-damaging rejection (even if she never intended to reject him in the first place and swears on a stack of bibles that she was really turned on by his tea towels).

According to Bobmi, men aren't wired to talk about their feelings, and even if they try to (in their own way), they are sometimes misunderstood or misinterpreted by the women in their lives...see fragile ego above.

*sigh*

I'll admit that it's sometimes hard to wrap my mind around exactly how fragile men are emotionally. I understand that they've been taught to be 'strong' and not show emotion. And it makes sense that the women they love are the ones with whom they feel the most vulnerable and from whom they seek validation. But they put up such an invulnerable front that it's easy to lose sight of this!!!

Thanks guys - you rock. I really appreciate this inside view into the male psyche. You're wonderful.

 

[Quoll]

*sigh*

I'll admit that it's sometimes hard to wrap my mind around exactly how fragile men are emotionally. I understand that they've been taught to be 'strong' and not show emotion. And it makes sense that the women they love are the ones with whom they feel the most vulnerable and from whom they seek validation. But they put up such an invulnerable front that it's easy to lose sight of this!!!

Thanks guys - you rock. I really appreciate this inside view into the male psyche. You're wonderful.

See, now Mr ego wants to come out and play, and look he`s brought a friend... it`s Mr Wobbly.

 

[Bobmi357]

It is not that the male ego is any more fragile than the female ego.

In a committed and loving relationship, the one person above all others that can hurt you the most is the person you trust not to hurt you. Your partner. The male and female egos do have particular weak spots and are especially vunerable to someone you love. But thats only because in a good relationship, you've opened yourself up to the other person, in a sense given them the key to destroying your ego. Love means trusting your partner will never use that knowledge to hurt you.

My first wife was especially good at crushing part of my ego, but never could touch another part. I think thats probably the only thing that kept me from snapping and either killing her, or myself. She couldn't break me 100%.

You want to crush an ego, male or female? Tell the person they are lousy in bed and you do it with them only to shut them up. Thats the sort of thing I heard from my first wife quite often.

 

[LadyJeanne]

See, now Mr ego wants to come out and play, and look he`s brought a friend... it`s Mr Wobbly.

Let the games begin.

 

[LadyJeanne]

It is not that the male ego is any more fragile than the female ego.

So very true. At least we can gain strength from each other.

Little poem I'm working on, almost ready to submit:


Man of Steel
by LadyJeanne

I already know you're superman.
I found your cape one night
and slipped it on my shoulders.
I know how it feels.

There's no need to pretend.
I know you battle evil
in the name of truth and justice.
I know you are brave.

There's no need to hide it.
I believe you use your powers
for the good of all mankind, and me.
I know your strength.

There's no need to explain.
The relative density of the planets
is insignificant to me.
I know you are special.

There's no need to shield me.
I feel the aura that protects us
when you wrap me in your arms.
I know we won't be hurt.

I already know you love me.
When the man of steel loves you,
he loves you more than anybody.
I know how it feels.

I'd love it if you told me.
Fly to me and whisper
your secret in my ear.
So I know how you feel.

 

[Quoll]

Re:ego

Yesterday before leaving for work I gave my wife a kiss, not the usual kiss something a little bit sensual, she smiled at me and said "I don`t want you to go to work today", well Mr ego and all his friends came running.
Of course I had to go to work, but all day I kept thinking... that kiss, wow she just wanted me to stay home and have me, even though there were three kids in the house and it was stormy and blowing a gale and there was never a chance of anything happening.
But still she wanted ME.
When I got home I told her how good it made me feel that she had said that.
She said, "Well, it was a real bad storm, I was concerned for your safety."

 

[Bobmi357]

Re:ego

Yesterday before leaving for work I gave my wife a kiss, not the usual kiss something a little bit sensual, she smiled at me and said "I don`t want you to go to work today", well Mr ego and all his friends came running.
Of course I had to go to work, but all day I kept thinking... that kiss, wow she just wanted me to stay home and have me, even though there were three kids in the house and it was stormy and blowing a gale and there was never a chance of anything happening.
But still she wanted ME.
When I got home I told her how good it made me feel that she had said that.
She said, "Well, it was a real bad storm, I was concerned for your safety."

No offense Quoll, but why are you equating your ego with your sex drive? Your ego is so much more than that. Or at least it is for me. And to be honest, my wife expressing her concern for my safety is also an ego boost in my mind.

 

[Quoll]

No offense Quoll, but why are you equating your ego with your sex drive? Your ego is so much more than that. Or at least it is for me. And to be honest, my wife expressing her concern for my safety is also an ego boost in my mind.

None taken Bob, I guess in this case it was merely to show the different ways we think and see things.
In my mind I had given her what I thought was a sensual kiss, so that is where my mind was focused, she however was on a totally different wavelength.
And yes if I had asked why, the result would have been the same, I still would have left feeling like a million dollars.
Overall why have I focused on sex and the ego, well it`s a big interest for me these days so I will go with the flow. Also many have concentrated on other aspects of the ego.
One of the prime ingredients in any relationship is intimacy, not just sex, but any form of touching, talking, if there is no intimacy a marriage will struggle, yet a simple touch, a kind word, can make all the difference.
Well anything else that comes to mind has already been covered so I`ll leave it at that. Night all.

 

[bobsgirl]

I just have to say, I love the way this thread has evolved. Bobmi and quoll have been so candid and helpful, and have offered insights that benefit everyone in a longterm relationship. Much more important in the scheme of things than my original question.

I have confidence that things will perk up for MrB and me at some point. Just a bump, albeit a significant one, in the road. Either which way, I ain't givin' up.

 

[Quoll]

I just have to say, I love the way this thread has evolved. Bobmi and quoll have been so candid and helpful, and have offered insights that benefit everyone in a longterm relationship. Much more important in the scheme of things than my original question.

I have confidence that things will perk up for MrB and me at some point. Just a bump, albeit a significant one, in the road. Either which way, I ain't givin' up.

bobsgirl
Either which way, I ain't givin' up.
I wonder how many relationships have been destroyed because people could not say what you have just said.

Yeah there are some bloody big bumps in the road, but there are lots of smooth straights too.

Good luck.

Love your AVs, they always make me smile.

 

[Bobmi357]

I just have to say, I love the way this thread has evolved. Bobmi and quoll have been so candid and helpful, and have offered insights that benefit everyone in a longterm relationship. Much more important in the scheme of things than my original question.

Yep... Bob's relationship analysis, its low cost, the couch is comfortable.

None of this should really be new to anyone, but it helps to remind folks.

Another thing women need to learn, and this is important!

Mr Stiffy responds even when Mr Brain is saying "No, not now!". Its a rare guy that has absolute control over his erections, so ladies, when you're cuddling and thats ALL you want, don't get too angry if you wake up Mr. Stiffy. He truly does respond with any help on our part.