What is femdom agitprop?

[EmilyMiller]

Deform gimp atop.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Deform gimp atop.

That sounds terrifying

 

[oneagainst]

Deform gimp atop.

OMG - don't you have actual work you should be doing???!?

 

[SimonDoom]

Chinese tourism to Australia brings in about 3x as much as US tourism, so yeah, I guess we do? Seems they're not scared of drop bears.

Anyone who enjoys the "how scary is Australia" meme should read Bill Bryson's well-written and enjoyably neurotic book, In a Sunburned Country. Overall it's an extremely favorable account of the country but he has some very funny observations about its fauna.

An excerpt:

“But don't worry," she continued. "Most snakes don't want to hurt you. If you're out in the bush and a snake comes along, just stop dead and let it slide over your shoes."
This, I decided, was the least-likely-to-be-followed advice I have ever been given.”

Another:

“No one knows, incidentally, why Australia's spiders are so extravagantly toxic; capturing small insects and injecting them with enough poison to drop a horse would appear to be the most literal case of overkill. Still, it does mean that everyone gives them lots of space.”

 

[Bramblethorn]

Deform gimp atop.

Hmm. Riffing off that, "top formed a gimp" works as a BDSM story outline.

 

[AngelRider]

There is a lot of chauvinist male bullshit they say, but they are also sometimes right about the way modern Hollywood works. I also think the Barbie movie doesn't have a good message, but I am hardly outraged about it. It was more or less expected from Hollywood filmmakers of the present day. I'll stop here as I don't really want to start a discussion.
Femdom stories are the best

All groups have their own truths formed from their core beliefs and ideology. Sometimes the ideology is repugnant and hateful towards other groups but that doesn't mean they are unable to deliver fact from time to time.

I saw Barbie. I enjoyed it. Visually the movie was absolutely stunning. I can't imagine Barbie failing to capture an Oscar for set design and/or costume. Does that mean I think it was "just a movie about a doll?" No. There is a lot about right wing talking heads like Ben Shapiro that I absolutely cannot fucking stand but he and others have a point:

Supporters cannot spend their time celebrating the woke feminist message and antipatriarchal themes and then in the next breath mock those who disagree by claiming "they can't handle a movie about a toy"

Shapiro isn't wrong, they can't have it both ways.

Considering how often ad hominem attacks are used to dismiss debate and argument, I often wonder how many people can actually define logical fallacy?

I am by no means a right wing conservative nor am I a huge woke liberal. I am a feminist but certainly not radical by any definition. Was Barbie a feminist movie? Yes, but it's not some uber woke masterpiece. It's pop/soundbite feminism that intends to touch all the boxes (issues) without ever examining them in any great detail. Things like the danger of toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, equal rights, female empowerment and body positivity. The movie doesn't examine these in any substantive way. "Patriarchy," for example, was so hamfisted and obviously meant to pander that they left the film wide open to critics.

Societal issues are nuanced but that movie wasn't created for nuance. It was meant to appeal to fans of "Barbie" while delivering a feminist message using a whack a mole delivery system where each mole is a societal issue to be smashed with the mallet of feminism.

That's my issue with the movie because I do think dialogue is needed to move forward and resolve societal problems. Shit like this doesn't help.

 

[Gamblnluck]

In LW, any story with reconciliation is also tagged with this by a couple of commenters. Hell, even some mild BTB ones. “Femdom agitprop” is shorthand for “I don’t like that you didn’t write meaner things happening to the FMC.”

I get that comment once or twice with almost every story. I ignore it, Well, to be honest it amuses me.

 

[EmilyMiller]

All groups have their own truths formed from their core beliefs and ideology. Sometimes the ideology is repugnant and hateful towards other groups but that doesn't mean they are unable to deliver fact from time to time.

I saw Barbie. I enjoyed it. Visually the movie was absolutely stunning. I can't imagine Barbie failing to capture an Oscar for set design and/or costume. Does that mean I think it was "just a movie about a doll?" No. There is a lot about right wing talking heads like Ben Shapiro that I absolutely cannot fucking stand but he and others have a point:

Supporters cannot spend their time celebrating the woke feminist message and antipatriarchal themes and then in the next breath mock those who disagree by claiming "they can't handle a movie about a toy"

Shapiro isn't wrong, they can't have it both ways.

Considering how often ad hominem attacks are used to dismiss debate and argument, I often wonder how many people can actually define logical fallacy?

I am by no means a right wing conservative nor am I a huge woke liberal. I am a feminist but certainly not radical by any definition. Was Barbie a feminist movie? Yes, but it's not some uber woke masterpiece. It's pop/soundbite feminism that intends to touch all the boxes (issues) without ever examining them in any great detail. Things like the danger of toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, equal rights, female empowerment and body positivity. The movie doesn't examine these in any substantive way. "Patriarchy," for example, was so hamfisted and obviously meant to pander that they left the film wide open to critics.

Societal issues are nuanced but that movie wasn't created for nuance. It was meant to appeal to fans of "Barbie" while delivering a feminist message using a whack a mole delivery system where each mole is a societal issue to be smashed with the mallet of feminism.

That's my issue with the movie because I do think dialogue is needed to move forward and resolve societal problems. Shit like this doesn't help.

Not seen it. Are Margot’s shoes nice?

Em

PS Loved Frances Ha, Lady Bird and Little Women, so will get round to it at some point.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Very simple: it's my writing.

 

[lovecraft68]

All groups have their own truths formed from their core beliefs and ideology. Sometimes the ideology is repugnant and hateful towards other groups but that doesn't mean they are unable to deliver fact from time to time.

I saw Barbie. I enjoyed it. Visually the movie was absolutely stunning. I can't imagine Barbie failing to capture an Oscar for set design and/or costume. Does that mean I think it was "just a movie about a doll?" No. There is a lot about right wing talking heads like Ben Shapiro that I absolutely cannot fucking stand but he and others have a point:

Supporters cannot spend their time celebrating the woke feminist message and antipatriarchal themes and then in the next breath mock those who disagree by claiming "they can't handle a movie about a toy"

Shapiro isn't wrong, they can't have it both ways.

Considering how often ad hominem attacks are used to dismiss debate and argument, I often wonder how many people can actually define logical fallacy?

I am by no means a right wing conservative nor am I a huge woke liberal. I am a feminist but certainly not radical by any definition. Was Barbie a feminist movie? Yes, but it's not some uber woke masterpiece. It's pop/soundbite feminism that intends to touch all the boxes (issues) without ever examining them in any great detail. Things like the danger of toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, equal rights, female empowerment and body positivity. The movie doesn't examine these in any substantive way. "Patriarchy," for example, was so hamfisted and obviously meant to pander that they left the film wide open to critics.

Societal issues are nuanced but that movie wasn't created for nuance. It was meant to appeal to fans of "Barbie" while delivering a feminist message using a whack a mole delivery system where each mole is a societal issue to be smashed with the mallet of feminism.

That's my issue with the movie because I do think dialogue is needed to move forward and resolve societal problems. Shit like this doesn't help.

Men had no issue with decades of movies featuring fake as fuck flawless men, men like Bond, men like any action hero every played and meanwhile the women are all hot, topless and simpering victims. All was right in the world.

Then you get a bit of a turnaround and the man babies literally cannot stop crying, and saying these movies emasculate men. they emasculate themselves with their crying and victim hood.

One of the worst examples is that incel fueling fucktard the Critical drinker saying it was awful hemsworth had to show his bare ass for a few seconds in Thor 4...but women having to literally suck dick and get assaulted to get roles....yeah, no problem.

End of the say I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't a lot of latent homosexuality going on among this type thinking what Shapiro and these other clowns really want to watch is gay porn with all those big strong mens doing manly things

 

[TheRedChamber]

Men had no issue with decades of movies featuring fake as fuck flawless men, men like Bond, men like any action hero every played and meanwhile the women are all hot, topless and simpering victims. All was right in the world.

Please point me in the direction of the cut of a View to a Kill where Grace Jones is topless and all will indeed be right with my world.

 

[lovecraft68]

Please point me in the direction of the cut of a View to a Kill where Grace Jones is topless and all will indeed be right with my world.

Those were separate comments, and you know what I mean. The only thing that saved Bond movies were attractive women because the plot and action were at a 12 year old boy level. That's why they're a favorite of the 'real men' movie critics.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Those were separate comments, and you know what I mean. The only thing that saved Bond movies were attractive women because the plot and action were at a 12 year old boy level. That's why they're a favorite of the 'real men' movie critics.

Fair play, I was twelve when I first saw it. Lest I be accused of being a simpleton, I should point out that I also had a strong love of avente garde French cinema at the same time. (because as any boy going through puberty preinternet knew, anything subtitled on Channel 4 after midnight was where the topless women really were, hanging around discussing Satre in the nip rather than waiting to be rescued)

As for cinema, some movies back then* were good and some movies were terrible.
Whereas now, some movies are good and some are terrible.
(*'back then can mean 1950s,60s,70s,80s or, God help me, even more recently - I had a youngster tell me recently the 'The Return of the King' was surprisingly good for such an old movie.)

Its generally good that modern movies have modern sensibilities, but the terrible movies often implement the modern sensibilities terribly.

Bond, again being a case in point - I can imagine the discussion in the writers room for the previous one - "So we're writing about a guy who travels to exotic locations, drives exotic sports cars and makes love to exotic women...so we're making his life seen as miserable as possible, right?"

Come to think of it, that probably is an example of Femdom Agitpop (coupled with the 'M is for Mummy' sensibilities of the film before that...)

As for the Barbie movie, I havent seen it yet, but I have to admit the marketing department has done an absolutely fucking stella job of making me feel like I should have done and yesterday. I have an eight year old daughter so I suspect that it is inevitable, but I've also seen the struggles of the recent Barbie cartoon which have gone with "Is it okay for her to really reallly like shoes if we make an ironic joke of it" attitute that was like nails on a chalkboard so Im not too hopeful. On the other hand, its 2023 and I now unironically think that My Little Pony is better epic fantasy than Star Wars, so anything can happen...

 

[oneagainst]

I think Barbie worked very differently for different audiences, if you asked them what they liked about it. Wife might appreciate the nostalgia of Barbies from her childhood, the commentary on the pressure to conform to perfect physical ideals, the headlong tilt against the grinding weight of patriarchy. Husband: uh, French Maid barbie.

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[lovecraft68]

I go on You tube and I type in "Fight scene" because I really enjoy them and will watch just about any kind. 99% of them are full of shit. Movies no one could really make under those circumstances, beatings no one could take in real life, and totally exaggerated in every way

Because they're fiction.

But any time the scene is an ass kicking woman...the section is filled with "No woman can do that, he'd beat the shit out of her, more feminist crap...." yet these same people(like lit if you read through enough comments you'll see the same names) will crow over Mission impossible and Fast and the Furious, Jason Stratham and SCot Adkins clips, John Wick etc...and its "yeah!!!!!!" with an occasional, "Kind of a stretch, but its a movie, roll with it"

But they can't roll with it when its a woman.

It must be sad to be so insecure you have to rail away against made up stories and movies.

The other thing that makes me roll my eyes is the majority of those people haven't been in a fight since fourth grade, but telling you all what can and can't be done. I've been involved in martial arts for 40 years at this point, and can tell you that if its not over within a few seconds neither person knows what they're doing. That and if anyone here has ever been hit with a beer bottle...A, they don't generally shatter, and B...you do not just turn around like it was nothing, or pop back up.

Unless you're one of the super studs I just mentioned of course cause "Guy power!!!!!!!"

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I go on You tube and I type in "Fight scene" because I really enjoy them and will watch just about any kind. 99% of them are full of shit. Movies no one could really make under those circumstances, beatings no one could take in real life, and totally exaggerated in every way

Because they're fiction.

But any time the scene is an ass kicking woman...the section is filled with "No woman can do that, he'd beat the shit out of her, more feminist crap...." yet these same people(like lit if you read through enough comments you'll see the same names) will crow over Mission impossible and Fast and the Furious, Jason Stratham and SCot Adkins clips, John Wick etc...and its "yeah!!!!!!" with an occasional, "Kind of a stretch, but its a movie, roll with it"

This is the part where I agree with you wholeheartedly. They are hypocrites for having double standards about those things.
My problem with all this is that I don't find those women ass-kicking scenes feminist at all, I see them as ridiculous and as such, giving credence to those who are pushing back against the values that healthy feminism is fighting for. The people in charge of Hollywood film-making are in good part people with chips on their shoulders who just want to poke male chauvinism in the eye while forgetting that they are poking everyone's eye with such ridiculous premises.

Just take a look at this scene, for example

Even though the setting of that episode is from the "Wheel of Time", a high fantasy book series, fighters in that scene are just ordinary humans. Take a look at the insanity of breaking every rule of logic, physics, medicine, common sense, and god knows what else, just to deliver a scene with an ass-kicking woman.

Now why do I find this more problematic than say, Jason Statham movies? Jason Statham movies and similar crap are mostly about mindless action fun, while of course, promoting some macho values, but they are not nearly as political as these other movies are, movies that harm the very political idea they are supposedly fighting for (feminism), by putting it into such ridiculous frames. There are good feminist movies out there and I would like to see more of them - movies that tackle the disturbing inequality still present in many parts of the world, sexual slavery, physical violence against women, economic inequality of women, inequality of political rights, and such.

 

[AlinaX]

Bond, again being a case in point - I can imagine the discussion in the writers room for the previous one - "So we're writing about a guy who travels to exotic locations, drives exotic sports cars and makes love to exotic women...so we're making his life seen as miserable as possible, right?"

As for the Barbie movie, I havent seen it yet, but I have to admit the marketing department has done an absolutely fucking stella job of making me feel like I should have done and yesterday. I have an eight year old daughter so I suspect that it is inevitable, but I've also seen the struggles of the recent Barbie cartoon which have gone with "Is it okay for her to really reallly like shoes if we make an ironic joke of it" attitute that was like nails on a chalkboard so Im not too hopeful. On the other hand, its 2023 and I now unironically think that My Little Pony is better epic fantasy than Star Wars, so anything can happen...

Recent Bonds have suffered from bloating, and the earlier films are horribly dated in places, but as a cultural phenomenon of exotic locations and talented stuntwork it was always fun. How epic was Moonraker, with actual space shuttles and laser battles, and Jaws...

Off-topic, but Jaws was in a late Season 1 episode of The Man from U.N.C.L.E. that I saw recently. Now there's a charming series that would suffer badly by today's expectations.

The Barbie movie is a lot of fun, although heavy handed in places and certainly not without faults. At two points, maybe more, I was in tears of laughter.

Star Wars... Since the utter betrayal that was Ep. 9, I've been entirely off anything Star Wars. My Little Pony, on the other hand, is always a delight.

 

[AlinaX]

Now why do I find this more problematic than say, Jason Statham movies? Jason Statham movies and similar crap are mostly about mindless action fun, while of course, promoting some macho values, but they are not nearly as political as these other movies are

The fundamental problem is that you only recognise as political the things that aren't normalised. It's like people complaining about all the gay people in films these days and all the trans people in the news, and ignoring the fact that films are full of visibly straight people and the news is otherwise full of cis people reinforcing binary ideals.

Women as action heros is no more or less political than having no women action heros at all.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Women as action heros is no more or less political than having no women action heros at all.

It is a wrong approach, in my opinion. Trying to beat men with their own weapons will backfire and I think it already has. War, fighting, aggression, violence... They have always been mostly man's playgrounds and while it might feel satisfying for some to see women beating men at their own game, I don't think it will bring anything good for the feminist idea, because most people will just sigh at watching those ridiculous scenes. God, I hope women will never beat men at this particular game, because there will be very little of Earth and humanity left if they do.

Why do women have to be portrayed as heroes in the same physical, violent way that men are usually portrayed? Is this kick-ass bullshit the only way someone can be a hero? Can't someone be 100 times more of a hero by fighting for the rights of the oppressed, by activism, by standing up for what is right, by being a scientist, an artist, a writer, and not by being some action movie female Chuck Norris?

 

[NoTalentHack]

It is a wrong approach, in my opinion. Trying to beat men with their own weapons will backfire and I think it already has. War, fighting, aggression, violence... They have always been mostly man's playgrounds and while it might feel satisfying for some to see women beating men at their own game, I don't think it will bring anything good for the feminist idea, because most people will just sigh at watching those ridiculous scenes. God, I hope women will never beat men at this particular game, because there will be very little of Earth and humanity left if they do.

Why do women have to be portrayed as heroes in the same physical, violent way that men are usually portrayed? Is this kick-ass bullshit the only way someone can be a hero? Can't someone be 100 times more of a hero by fighting for the rights of the oppressed, by activism, by standing up for what is right, by being a scientist, an artist, a writer, and not by being some action movie female Chuck Norris?

Except women can share in the same power fantasies that men do. Hell, look at cosplay: that was, and to an extent still is, a female-dominated space. Go to one of the big Comic Cons and see how many women are walking around dressed as Batgirl, Spider-Gwen, Ripley, Sarah Connor, Power Girl, or any number of other female ass-kickers. There is an empowering feeling there, being able to have the same sort of physical power, strength, and skill that the male characters have; besting them in many cases.

I agree that we'd all be better off if humanity's fantasy playscape was a little less violent, and our real world was a lot less violent. But to say "whoa, women shouldn't be action heroes in the same way men are, because violence is bad and women should be above that" is, frankly, kind of infantilizing. It's the same impulse, channeled differently, that says "porn is bad, because it exploits women" instead of "we should do things to keep people from being exploited in the porn industry."

 

[AlinaX]

They don't have to be, but why can't they be? Why can't I have Anne Parillaud as Nikita and Geena Davis as Charlie Baltimore? Why can't I have Uma Thurman and Azumi and Kate Beckinsale and Blood: The Last Vampire?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Just to make things clear, I wasn't talking about superheroes, fantasy characters and such. Take a look at my fantasy series and you will see female rulers, leaders, brave and powerful sorceresses, kick-ass (elven) female fighters, and so on. In the world of fantasy and superheroes of course it is fine to have women kick ass as well.

 

[Djmac1031]

Ah, the old Female Empowerment In Hollywood rabbit hole.

Okay, down I go...

I'm all for women action heroes, 100%.

And I'm all for creating more of them.

But it has to be done RIGHT.

Hollywood has been very much hit or miss on this.

Birds Of Prey is an example of a miss. Every single man in that movie is a piece of shit, which is, by default, supposed to make us root for the women.

But I found the characters all one dimensional, and some of them, especially Harley herself, just as terrible as the men she was fighting back against.

Then look how they destroyed the Terminator franchise.

John Connor was the main focus throughout every single film, even the first one, before he was born.

So what did they do? Kill him off and replaced him with a random girl no one knew or cared about.

Ridiculous choice.

Then there's the new Indiana Jones movie. Jesus, what a mess that was.

I have no problems with a new female character. My problem stems from introducing her in a way where she becomes more of the focus than Indy.

She's obnoxious and annoying, and actually leaves Indy behind to possibly be killed by the men chasing her. But we're supposed to be rooting for her by the end? Makes no sense.

Now, on the reverse end:

I'm a massive Star Wars fan, have been all my life.

But even I'll admit the sequels have problems. LOTS of them.

Rey, however, is not one of them.

The same people who complain that Rey is a "Mary Sue" who knows how to do everything too easily are the same exact people who had no problem whatsoever with Luke Skywalker jumping into a spaceship he's never flown before, surviving a major dogfight against trained experts, and blowing up a space station with his eyes closed.

All after 15 minutes of training by an old Jedi that basically boiled down to "your senses can deceive you, act on instinct."

I haven't seen the Barbie movie yet.

I get what it is, and I get it's target audience. And that target audience isn't me.

I have zero objections to it, and may watch it when it hits streaming. I just felt no need to rush out to see it.

So to sum up my rambling:

I've said it a million times: characters matter. Male, female, gay, trans, doesn't matter.

Write me a good character with strong motivations and make me care about them, and I'll happily believe any ridiculous action nonsense you throw my way.

Give me shallow, one dimensional characters who's actions and motivations make no sense and I'll spend the entire movie picking it apart piece by piece.

 

[AngelRider]

Ah, the old Female Empowerment In Hollywood rabbit hole.

Okay, down I go...

I'm all for women action heroes, 100%.

And I'm all for creating more of them.

But it has to be done RIGHT.

Hollywood has been very much hit or miss on this.

Birds Of Prey is an example of a miss. Every single man in that movie is a piece of shit, which is, by default, supposed to make us root for the women.

But I found the characters all one dimensional, and some of them, especially Harley herself, just as terrible as the men she was fighting back against.

Then look how they destroyed the Terminator franchise.

John Connor was the main focus throughout every single film, even the first one, before he was born.

So what did they do? Kill him off and replaced him with a random girl no one knew or cared about.

Ridiculous choice.

Then there's the new Indiana Jones movie. Jesus, what a mess that was.

I have no problems with a new female character. My problem stems from introducing her in a way where she becomes more of the focus than Indy.

She's obnoxious and annoying, and actually leaves Indy behind to possibly be killed by the men chasing her. But we're supposed to be rooting for her by the end? Makes no sense.

Now, on the reverse end:

I'm a massive Star Wars fan, have been all my life.

But even I'll admit the sequels have problems. LOTS of them.

Rey, however, is not one of them.

The same people who complain that Rey is a "Mary Sue" who knows how to do everything too easily are the same exact people who had no problem whatsoever with Luke Skywalker jumping into a spaceship he's never flown before, surviving a major dogfight against trained experts, and blowing up a space station with his eyes closed.

All after 15 minutes of training by an old Jedi that basically boiled down to "your senses can deceive you, act on instinct."

I haven't seen the Barbie movie yet.

I get what it is, and I get it's target audience. And that target audience isn't me.

I have zero objections to it, and may watch it when it hits streaming. I just felt no need to rush out to see it.

So to sum up my rambling:

I've said it a million times: characters matter. Male, female, gay, trans, doesn't matter.

Write me a good character with strong motivations and make me care about them, and I'll happily believe any ridiculous action nonsense you throw my way.

Give me shallow, one dimensional characters who's actions and motivations make no sense and I'll spend the entire movie picking it apart piece by piece.

I'm all for women action heroes, 100%.
And I'm all for creating more of them.
But it has to be done RIGHT."

I just knew you were going to start whining after that last sentence.

You aren't going to like it but I am about to be honest with you. Literally, no one cares. Oh sure, there are other whiny men out there who have the same views and spend all their time mansplaining why Hollywood is ruining the world by including women and minorities in traditional white male spaces but NO ONE except for you and those vocal manbabies care.

Just for ONCE I would love one of you disingenuous assholes be honest because your bitching and moaning isn't about artistic integrity, quality of movie etc. You don't give a fuck if Rey was a Mary Sue (and she was BTW, didn't think I would agree?) You care she was the lead, period. Even if Rey had the same trajectory as Luke, you would still ask why Rey had to be a woman.

What sticks in your ass is the fact that you spent your life watching movies with leads that looked like you. Their culture was like yours. Their beliefs were like yours. You could imagine being them. Well, times have changed and if you want to watch a movie, you are going to be confronted with that change. You no longer see the type of characters you want and it PISSES YOU OFF.
Tough shit. Seriously. Tough shit and grow up.

We have been watching the same fucking movies as you for just as long, accepting scraps here and there when it comes to representation. The best we could hope for was small budget/Indy films. Hollywood blockbusters were far and few.

Well, we are getting some attention now. Too fucking bad.

And yes, some examples are pure shit. You Pandering is absolutely a problem but your claim that it is your only complaint, is hollow. You want movies the way they have always been and expect us to either deal with it or make our own shit.

Oh wait, we do and you STILL bitch which is exactly my point.

Well sorry buddy. Let me tell you what I heard so very often growing up, "if you don't like it, don't watch it"

 

[AlinaX]

Rey (headcanon aroace, fuck Ep. 9) is a great new character and anyone who disses her is a whiny crybaby.