What makes a true submissive?

[DrDelirium]

As usual, you'd be wrong.

Pointing out that variety simply exists in nature neither proves nor disproves evolution! All is does is point out that variety exists, regardless of how it developed.

But again, nice deflection of a point you're unwilling, or unable, to address.

It seems to me that variation exists but that what the discussion is about is how to make meaningful groupings out of that variation. In biology, that is usually done by tracing lines of descent. That's not a sensible schema for things like 'submissiveness.' While there is every reason to believe that behaviors like dominance and submission are rooted in biology, they are expressed culturally, and culture is quite a bit more malleable than biology.

 

[DrDelirium]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalex View Post
Is this the case? Is a "true nigger" someone with the proper melanin level?

Most people would define it as such.

"A single drop of blood," was the rule in the ante-bellum South. So, Q.E.D.

 

[Primalex]

Pointing out that variety simply exists in nature neither proves nor disproves evolution! All is does is point out that variety exists, regardless of how it developed.

To help you with your reading comprehension skill I have applied a visual help for you:
"Hopefully there isn't one fucking true rose out there from which all other roses are descended"


Adding "There exists a variety of roses!" to "How does the ancestry of roses look like?" is about as useful as if you would have just written "Hodor!".


But don't be worried, I take your eagerness to engage in a debate with me as compliment. I must have made quite some impression in your past.

 

[TheWhiteBull]

"A single drop of blood," was the rule in the ante-bellum South. So, Q.E.D.

i didnt realize we lived there.

 

[DrDelirium]

i didnt realize we lived there.

So you thought that racism was invented in 2008? Science says race is a cultural construct. The fact that you can have a debate about what makes somebody 'black' shows that your head is full of cultural legacies.

 

[Miles Long]

Jesus, what the fuck happened in here?

 

[Farawyn]

Jesus, what the fuck happened in here?

*spit take*

 

[KimGordon67]

To help you with your reading comprehension skill I have applied a visual help for you:
"Hopefully there isn't one fucking true rose out there from which all other roses are descended"


Adding "There exists a variety of roses!" to "How does the ancestry of roses look like?" is about as useful as if you would have just written "Hodor!".


But don't be worried, I take your eagerness to engage in a debate with me as compliment. I must have made quite some impression in your past.

I possibly should have been more careful with that statement - the fact that other roses are descended from an original rose doesn't mean the original rose is the only one true rose, and the only receptacle of real roseness. It was really a throwaway comment, which is why it was in brackets.
(It also completely side-tracked the thread, because no one really thinks there's one true sub from which all other subs are descended and who thereby must be inferior - that would just be silly.)

 

[KimGordon67]

Jesus, what the fuck happened in here?

Maybe everyone was drinking? Or something? It looks like conversations I've had at 3am, but couldn't remember the next morning.

 

[Iamsubmissive]

Maybe everyone was drinking? Or something? It looks like conversations I've had at 3am, but couldn't remember the next morning.

I wasn't drinking when I posted a comment, but have since decided that it makes following this thread a lot more fun...

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[TheWhiteBull]

So you thought that racism was invented in 2008? Science says race is a cultural construct. The fact that you can have a debate about what makes somebody 'black' shows that your head is full of cultural legacies.

Of course racism is nothing new, what a completely idiotic thing to accuse me of thinking.

And once again, I don't think anybody wants a BDSM thread to turn into a Racism thread so here:http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1444026

 

[Blue]

Jesus, what the fuck happened in here?

Diplodocus stampede.

 

[Farawyn]

Diplodocus stampede.

Were they true diplodocci?

 

[Blue]

[ I removed my witty response after reading it and finding it not to be witty, but horribly contrived and lame ]

 

[KimGordon67]

I've acquainted myself with the world of BDSM as well as D/s relationships for years now. I identify as someone who is submissive but on many ocassions I've been told that I'm not a true submissive because I do have a strong personality and have been an independent woman for a long time now. I feel thats an ignorant way of thinking and always assume its because they arent informed or just settle for perpetuating stereotypes without researching. What do you guys think?

If this has been brought up as a thread before, I am really sorry. I'm new to the BDSM Talk forum.

I'm not sure if the original intent of this thread has become derailed beyond repair ... but I was thinking about the OP whilst dying my hair this morning, and I wondered why anyone would think that in the first place. I would probably fit the description of 'a strong personality and in independent woman' - and with the couple of relationships I've had with in-charge guys, I would say that's precisely what they relish in relation to my submission. For them - and I'm not saying this is the case for all in-charge guys at all, but it seemed to be the case for them - having someone strong-willed submit was more gratifying, because they knew I was doing it for them, not because submission is 'in my nature' (if that's the implication of a 'true' sub?). I understand other relationships have other dynamics, and I don't think any of them are any truer than any other, but by the same token, I don't think I could submit for someone who just expected it as a matter of course.

 

[Farawyn]

I'm not sure if the original intent of this thread has become derailed beyond repair ... but I was thinking about the OP whilst dying my hair this morning, and I wondered why anyone would think that in the first place. I would probably fit the description of 'a strong personality and in independent woman' - and with the couple of relationships I've had with in-charge guys, I would say that's precisely what they relish in relation to my submission. For them - and I'm not saying this is the case for all in-charge guys at all, but it seemed to be the case for them - having someone strong-willed submit was more gratifying, because they knew I was doing it for them, not because submission is 'in my nature' (if that's the implication of a 'true' sub?). I understand other relationships have other dynamics, and I don't think any of them are any truer than any other, but by the same token, I don't think I could submit for someone who just expected it as a matter of course.

This, yes. But one step more... that you want to submit. That you are dying to. Because, yes, it truly is your nature.
But you are only going to submit to someone who earns it.

(Rhetorical you. Or, me.)

 

[cascadiabound]

I'm not sure if the original intent of this thread has become derailed beyond repair ... but I was thinking about the OP whilst dying my hair this morning, and I wondered why anyone would think that in the first place. I would probably fit the description of 'a strong personality and in independent woman' - and with the couple of relationships I've had with in-charge guys, I would say that's precisely what they relish in relation to my submission. For them - and I'm not saying this is the case for all in-charge guys at all, but it seemed to be the case for them - having someone strong-willed submit was more gratifying, because they knew I was doing it for them, not because submission is 'in my nature' (if that's the implication of a 'true' sub?). I understand other relationships have other dynamics, and I don't think any of them are any truer than any other, but by the same token, I don't think I could submit for someone who just expected it as a matter of course.

Yes. Something like this for me too. No one would describe me as weak- minded, a hot mess, disorganized, silly or particularly dependent in my nature. In fact... my personality is to lead and be in charge most of the time. It has made figuring out my submission complicated and confusing. Nonetheless... there it is. Nothing makes me feel more right sexually and in my sexual relationships than to submit.

[what kind of rose does that make me? hmmm. actually... I don't particularly care for roses.]

 

[KimGordon67]

[what kind of rose does that make me? hmmm. actually... I don't particularly care for roses.]

I'm giving up on the rose analogy - it was never that good to begin with, and it all went horribly wrong.

 

[KimGordon67]

This, yes. But one step more... that you want to submit. That you are dying to. Because, yes, it truly is your nature.
But you are only going to submit to someone who earns it.

(Rhetorical you. Or, me.)

Precisely. I'm never entirely sure if 'earned it' is quite right for me, but they certainly have to be someone I trust completely - in a 'with my life' kind of way. And also have demonstrated some sort of ... well, I don't want to say mind-reading ability, but it's helpful if they get things without me having to go into long involved detailed explanations. Whether the thing they're getting is a desire, or a lack of desire, for something specific.

I'm also not sure if, for me, I'm dying to. I've had a fantastic relationship for 18 years that hasn't had any element of that to it at all. Hence I never frame that as a 'need' for me, even in the sense of 'something I need to feel sexually fulfilled'. But with the right person, it's pretty freaking awesome.

 

[KimGordon67]

Yes. Something like this for me too. No one would describe me as weak- minded, a hot mess, disorganized, silly or particularly dependent in my nature. In fact... my personality is to lead and be in charge most of the time. It has made figuring out my submission complicated and confusing. Nonetheless... there it is. Nothing makes me feel more right sexually and in my sexual relationships than to submit.

[what kind of rose does that make me? hmmm. actually... I don't particularly care for roses.]

Totally this. Luckily complicated and confusing can make things more interesting. I sort of like the fact that, at 50, I can still find sex something of a mystery, just in new ways.

 

[Farawyn]

I'm giving up on the rose analogy - it was never that good to begin with, and it all went horribly wrong.

You knew it was coming...

https://youtu.be/j2r2nDhTzO4

 

[KimGordon67]

You knew it was coming...

https://youtu.be/j2r2nDhTzO4

Thankfully Poison seem to be unavailable in this country.

 

[Farawyn]

Thankfully Poison seem to be unavailable in this country.

Hopefully that extends to Nickleback as well!

 

[cascadiabound]

Totally this. Luckily complicated and confusing can make things more interesting. I sort of like the fact that, at 50, I can still find sex something of a mystery, just in new ways.

Yes. Totally this. I find complicated and confusing and having to unpack things and puzzle things out is part of what turns me on and keeps me interested.