Who Is Lying About Iraq?

[Slowlane]

Let me get this absolutely straight.

The American government has admitted using white phosphorous against the population of Fallujah.

And yet, despite this, you still don't believe it happened.
Jesus fucking Christ.

Whip out your proof.

 

[Slowlane]

Finally, we're getting somewehere.

What you say is true. I do expect more from America than I do from a a Gulf Tyranny.

That's why I 'run the length of my leash' when America copies Saddam's methods. In my opinion, these atrocities are a betrayel of the civilization that better men than me and you fought to create.

You disagree. You think that it's OK for America to abuse POWs and murder civilians.

This is why we'll never finish this argument - it's impossible to find common ground between these two positions.

At no point in time has America copied Saddam,s methods. The point is that what happened in the prison, in no way compares to Saddam. The next point is that those people in the wrong are being prosecuted.

Now, explain the comparison. .

 

[Gringao]

Actually, I agree. I meant "chickenshit compared to the explosive possibilities." Politically chickenshit. Fitz makes the point pretty succintly in the press conference.

I hear you about the non-protected status. I gotta wonder, though, if that's the case, why didn't Fitz just say that? Why the continuing investigation and extending the GJ?

Oh yeah, next to the possible charges it's peanuts. As to why Fitzgerald is keeping mum on the Plame status...I think he's trying to make something pertaining to his original raison d'etre to stick.

 

[Gringao]

Whip out your proof.

The military has said it used WP in Falluja for nighttime illumination.

 

[Slowlane]

The military has said it used WP in Falluja for nighttime illumination.

But, not as a weapon against civilians.

 

[eagleyez]

The military has said it used WP in Falluja for nighttime illumination.

Was it the fourth of july?

I cant follow who said what to whom, when or where, here or there, I swear I swear.

I would say "interesting thread" but it aint, I swear.

 

[Gringao]

But, not as a weapon against civilians.

No, not as a weapon against civilians. The soldier that deliberately and knowingly targets a civilian is putting his liberty and career in serious jeopardy.

 

[Gringao]

Was it the fourth of july?

I cant follow who said what to whom, when or where, here or there, I swear I swear.

I would say "interesting thread" but it aint, I swear.

No, it was November as I recall.

Did someone march you into the thread at gunpoint?

 

[Slowlane]

No, not as a weapon against civilians. The soldier that deliberately and knowingly targets a civilian is putting his liberty and career in serious jeopardy.

They are usually prosecuted, and punished severely if found guilty. So why doesn’t the left understand that such things are only crimes, not the end of the Republic as we know it.

 

[Gringao]

They are usually prosecuted, and punished severely if found guilty. So why doesn’t the left understand that such things are only crimes, not the end of the Republic as we know it.

They do understand. They want political gain out of it, however.

 

[Slowlane]

They do understand. They want political gain out of it, however.

That is the sad part. The ONLY thing the left is interested in is political gain. The issues have little or no meaning beyond the almighty vote.

That is the politicians on the left. The left wing fringe here on Lit is just very very weird.

 

[eagleyez]

No, it was November as I recall.

Did someone march you into the thread at gunpoint?

Nope, slingshot loaded with marbles, of which I have very few. Happy belated B-day BTW.

 

[Gringao]

Nope, slingshot loaded with marbles, of which I have very few. Happy belated B-day BTW.

That's even worse...almost as bad as a stretched rubber band aimed at your head.

Thanks, EE. If I missed yours, same to you.

 

[eagleyez]

That's even worse...almost as bad as a stretched rubber band aimed at your head.

Thanks, EE. If I missed yours, same to you.

Mine's in May.

Its all good.

 

[zipman]

That is the sad part. The ONLY thing the left is interested in is political gain. The issues have little or no meaning beyond the almighty vote.

That is the politicians on the left. The left wing fringe here on Lit is just very very weird.

Do you really believe the right is interested in anything other than political gain?

If so, I would love to hear what it is.

 

[Gringao]

Mine's in May.

Its all good.

I did miss it. Happy birthday.

 

[Borscht]

Why would that be? Cannot the swarthy refrain from barbarism? Why the double standard, if not for reasons of ethnic bigotry or political opportunism?

Western civilization is superior to any other. A group or individual who is born into this civilization and then tries to destroy its values is abhorent.

Sometimes I wonder why Bush and his little flock don't all ship out to North Korea. You could all worship the government and torture each other to your hearts content.

For the record, America did not "copy" Saddam's methods. That much Hitchens's piece makes clear. Some rogue soldiers humiliated and abused prisoners and for that they have been and are being prosecuted. Saddam's lackeys tortured and murdered their charges with nary a prosecution in sight.

Can someone as hate-blind as you are see the difference between that which is prohibited and prosecuted versus that which is policy and rewarded? Between humiliation and murder?

As the Red Cross etc. have reported, America systematically tortures and abuses POWs. It does this both in Iraq and also in concentration camps scattered around the world.

To ignore this, and to pretend that the only soldiers to torture prisoners were the ones caught on camera, is just silly.

(BTW, Hitchens is just a polemecist. He's like Ann Coulter or Michael Moore - he gets rich by selling tripe to those who want to buy it).


Edited to add - If any of Saddam's torturers had been stupid enough to get their work shown on TV, you can bet they'd have been prosecuted.

 

[Borscht]

But, not as a weapon against civilians.

LOL.

Yeah, coz the US army neeever kills civilians.

Man, woman or child, soon as they're doused in napalm they magically transform into terrorists.

 

[Borscht]

The military has said it used WP in Falluja for nighttime illumination.

It did, didn't it ?

Then, when it was caught lying, it changed it's story.


The Pentagon's admission - despite earlier denials - that US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in Falluja last year is more than a public relations issue - it has opened up a debate about the use of this weapon in modern warfare.


The admission contradicted a statement this week from the new and clearly under-briefed US ambassador in London Robert Holmes Tuttle that US forces "do not use napalm or white phosphorus as weapons".

The official line to that point had been that WP, or Willie Pete to use its old name from Vietnam, was used only to illuminate the battlefield and to provide smoke for camouflage.

'Shake 'n Bake'


This line however crumbled when bloggers (whose influence must not be under-estimated these days) ferreted out an article published by the US Army's Field Artillery Magazine in its issue of March/April this year. . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4442988.stm

 

[Borscht]

Do you really believe the right is interested in anything other than political gain?

If so, I would love to hear what it is.

To be fair, they also seem to be interested in corporate welfare and homosexuality.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It did, didn't it ?

Then, when it was caught lying, it changed it's story.


The Pentagon's admission - despite earlier denials - that US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in Falluja last year is more than a public relations issue - it has opened up a debate about the use of this weapon in modern warfare.


The admission contradicted a statement this week from the new and clearly under-briefed US ambassador in London Robert Holmes Tuttle that US forces "do not use napalm or white phosphorus as weapons".

The official line to that point had been that WP, or Willie Pete to use its old name from Vietnam, was used only to illuminate the battlefield and to provide smoke for camouflage.

'Shake 'n Bake'


This line however crumbled when bloggers (whose influence must not be under-estimated these days) ferreted out an article published by the US Army's Field Artillery Magazine in its issue of March/April this year. . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4442988.stm

My goodness. The link you posted shows that Gringao and Slowlane were mistaken as to their facts.

I sincerely hope that their mischaracterization of the facts was an aberration.

 

[Slowlane]

LOL.

Yeah, coz the US army neeever kills civilians.

Man, woman or child, soon as they're doused in napalm they magically transform into terrorists.

You’re spouting opinion again. I'm looking for some facts.

 

[Slowlane]

Do you really believe the right is interested in anything other than political gain?

If so, I would love to hear what it is.

Admittedly, not much. To give the right a little credit, they have had a lot to do dealing with the attacks from the left.
The left has no plan, so the criticize the right for having no plan.
The left has been lying, so they accuse the right of lying.

If they would stop the bull shit and become part of the solution instead of part of the problem, it would help us all a great deal.

They don’t like what’s going on but I don’t see them trying to use the proper channels to do anything about it.
Any one of then could introduce legislation proposing a plan for the war – they haven’t done so.
Any one of them could introduce legislation proposing a plan to reduce the deficit – they haven’t done so.

The right, even though the ideas may be wrong, have been working on the end of the war, social security and the economy. All the left has done is bitch.

 

[Slowlane]

It did, didn't it ?

Then, when it was caught lying, it changed it's story.


The Pentagon's admission - despite earlier denials - that US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in Falluja last year is more than a public relations issue - it has opened up a debate about the use of this weapon in modern warfare.


The admission contradicted a statement this week from the new and clearly under-briefed US ambassador in London Robert Holmes Tuttle that US forces "do not use napalm or white phosphorus as weapons".

The official line to that point had been that WP, or Willie Pete to use its old name from Vietnam, was used only to illuminate the battlefield and to provide smoke for camouflage.

'Shake 'n Bake'


This line however crumbled when bloggers (whose influence must not be under-estimated these days) ferreted out an article published by the US Army's Field Artillery Magazine in its issue of March/April this year. . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4442988.stm

I believe the discussion was “against civilians”. It’s already been agreed that they used it, that it’s legal.

 

[Gringao]

LOL.

Yeah, coz the US army neeever kills civilians.

I didn't say that. I said they don't target civilians. As opposed to those that we are fighting (for whom you don't seem to have a disparaging word at hand), whose arsenal is comprised of primarily targeting civilians.