Who Is Lying About Iraq?

[Ishmael]

And you wouldn't want to be the one to tell him there were no weapons when he believed he had them.

Of course, we did find jets buried in the desert...

Everyone seems to forget how amazingly small and light these weapons are. The payloads in particular. A few trucks to move the whole shooting match.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Red Herrings or Red Sardines, take your pick.

Kerry, Hillary, et. al., said that Saddam had to be removed as a pre-emptive measure for the safety of the citizenry.

We have them on record. They were not concerned with material at hand, but rather, intentions.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

I wonder what the Democrat explanations are going to sound like today on the news shows or if anything will even be mentioned...?

 

[Ishmael]

Yes, I did read that part, Miles. The insurgency is complex and includes hard-line Islamists of which Zarqawi is the most influential and problematic.

But his very power and influence owe their existence to the invasion itself. Pure blowback.

There is NO way you can make that assertion with any certainty at all. Mere conjecture Ollie.

Zarqawi didn't just immigrate to Iraq and set up shop after the invasion. Do you think he stepped off the Greyhound and said, "I'm Zarqawi and I'm here to show you how to fight the Americans. Take me to your explosives." There is ample evidence that Iraq was a Zarqawi center of operation before the invasion.

I don't dispute the fact that he has recruited far and wide (mostly Saudi, Egypt, and Syria) to support his activities, but the fact also remains that without a sound knowldge of the infrastrcuture and geography he would have been far less sucessfull. (And he is showing more and more desperation in his activities as well,

Zarqawi getting desperate? )

It's also a myth that Zarqawi arose in response to the invasion. Anyone remember the USS. Cole? (Wasn't he also tied in with the Kobar towers bombings?)

The fact that the invasion gave him a focus for his activities is no suprise. And as a matter of fact that was part of the plan. Afterall, he's over there fighting trained professionals, not over here killing civilians.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

No, no, no, no, no, we didn't Paradise Op a wedding!

It was a CIA covert operation!

DonkeyDick has LINKS!

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

And the follow-up bombings of the mosques wasn't us baybee that was Kurds all the way with help from the CIA!

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Who you gonna believe goatherd? Me or your lying eyes!?

 

[Ishmael]

Did you take note in the article of how Zarqawi got his minions press credentials to be used to 'case' the targets, and then have a crew on hand to videotape the results to be given to al Jezeerah?

The guy's not dumb by any means.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

He knows what the Democrats want and he's giving it to them and at the same time letting everyone else in the region know what's in store for them once we retreat.

This makes it easier for the Democrats to swallow, that the wedding was just collateral damage as their Freedom Fighters were engaging a legitimate military target, a hotel lounge. Don told them CIA goons always haunt the lounge...

 

[Ishmael]

All right out of Sun Tzu and the Little Red Book. Still enough ignorant people around for it to work.

Ya know, that 403-3 vote last night kinda takes the wind out of the Democrats sails on the matter. Interesting. I wonder how Cynthia voted? *chuckle*

Back to Zarqawi. No one, but no one, moves into a foriegn country for the purposes of fomenting an invasion (and I mean just that, an invasion. Zarqawi and his group are NOT insurrectionists. They are primarily foriegn agents.) without either a great deal of prior knowledge and contacts, or one hell of a lot of logistic support. Wasn't Zarqawi tied to Iraq as far back as '99 or earlier? Seems to me that's where he bolted after he was tied to the Cole bombing.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Back then, I don't think he was Al Qaeda either...

But then, neither was Abu Nidal.

 

[miles]

Someone please tell me what facts exist to support the Democrat's claim that Bush lied?

Facts - not opinions. I know some of you have trouble distinguishing between the two,

 

[Don K Dyck]

Liberals always try to forget 9/11, because 9/11 changed everything.

After 9/11 Terrorism wasnt something that just went on in Isreal or Europe it was here and it just cost us 3,000 lives.

FYI.... Iraq's suspected culpability in 9/11 was NOT the only reason we went to war. Bush AND Congress authorized war because it was believed he had WMDs (by ALL of the Intell agencies btw) and was not cooperating with the UN investiations.

I might also add he was also disposed because he was a MASS MURDERING tyrant who HAD used WMDs. Since he is now gone Iraq NOW has the beginnings of a DEMOCRACY, and women can now vote in Iraq (Something that doesnt seem to matter to Pookie) and even more importantly the MASS MURDERS have STOPPED (not that seems to matter to you and the rest of the anti-war left).

Uhmmm . . . these are the ravings of another working class redneck republican Texas fundamentalist Christian fascist . . . who forgot to open their mind before flapping their jaw . . .

 

[Don K Dyck]

How DARE I?

How dare I remind you of the mass murders and the tortures!
How dare I remind you of the gassings of the Kurds!
How dare I remind you of the invasions of Iran and Kuwait!
How dare I remind you that women couldnt vote!

How dare I remind you of the mass murders and the tortures are now OVER!
How dare I remind you of the gassings of the Kurds are now OVER!
How dare I remind you of the invasions of Iran and Kuwait are now OVER!
How dare I remind you that women can now VOTE!

This isnt about them its about THEM! It never was. Its ALL about US and our petty little political partisanships and its about our marches and its about our protests.

Uhmmm . . . sorry to disrupt your long established prejudices with real fadcts, but:

At the 1994 Reigle Committee into the Expotrt Administration Act, the CIA evidence freely admitted supplying Saddam Hussein with "everything" necessary for him to stay in power . . . including the anti-personnel gases used against the Kurds and Marsh Arabs . . .

. . . I think that may just qualify as a 'crime against humanity' for the glorious leadership of the Desertstorm I invasion . . . none other than the C-in-C himself . . . Daddy Bush!!!

 

[Peregrinator]

Someone please tell me what facts exist to support the Democrat's claim that Bush lied?

Facts - not opinions. I know some of you have trouble distinguishing between the two,

You might find this article interesting:

In the end, he could not identify a single site where illegal weapons were buried.

Link

 

[Ishmael]

Uhmmm . . . sorry to disrupt your long established prejudices with real fadcts, but:

At the 1994 Reigle Committee into the Expotrt Administration Act, the CIA evidence freely admitted supplying Saddam Hussein with "everything" necessary for him to stay in power . . . including the anti-personnel gases used against the Kurds and Marsh Arabs . . .

. . . I think that may just qualify as a 'crime against humanity' for the glorious leadership of the Desertstorm I invasion . . . none other than the C-in-C himself . . . Daddy Bush!!!

You're full of shit.

The biologicals were shipped under a Dept. of Commerce liscense. CIA didn't have a damn thing to do with it. That liscense was applied for, and granted, under conditions of a UN treaty to which the US is a signatory.

Here's the link to the "Reigle" report section that DonKey is saying says what it doesn't say;

Riegle report biologicals

His reference to the chemicals is also a lie. Here's what the Reigle report has to say about Iraqs chemical weapons;

Related Chemical Agent Information

Committee staff has learned that Iraq may have acquired any one of a number of the Soviet binary novachok ("newcomer") series of chemical warfare agent compounds or information relevant to the development of those compounds. This series of chemical warfare agents reportedly contains both lethal and debilitating agents. According to a confidential Committee source, if the Iraqis had obtained samples of these compounds they could be easily analyzed and produced with readily available materials. Several of these compounds are described as agents that even in microdoses can have long lasting effects. These agents are described as inducing myosis, vomiting, memory loss, involuntary motions and internal organ dysfunction. Many of these materials are also described as having mutagenic effects. These materials are, according to the source, stored in the lipids (body fats) and have no known antidotes. In addition, according to the Committee source, the Soviets were believed to have conducted research in a number of dioxin-based chemical warfare agents, and on at least one agent that could be used to contaminate drinking water supplies. Committee staff is conducting further inquiries to determine if Iraq may have had access to any of these compounds.

It was known that Iraqs chemical programs were of Soviet origin based on the residual traces of Mycotoxins found in both Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation and from the Kurdish areas of Iraq that Saddam gassed. The Soviets loaded their chemical agents up with mycotoxins to augment their effectiveness.

Ishmael

 

[Don K Dyck]

I think you mean Iran. No, according to Kenneth Pollack (Bill Clinton's top Iraq policy advisor), Saddam always thought there would be a US military response to his invasion of Kuwait, but he sincerely thought he could win it.

Uhmmm . . . a little facts break here . . .

The border between Iraq and Kuwait traverses a large oilfield that the Kuwaitis were milking faster than they had agreed with Iraq to satisfy AmeriKKKan oil corporations . . .

Saddam Hussein had asked them to abide by their agreement and the Kuwaitis told him to "bugger off". SH approached a minor U$ embassy official and asked would the U$A become involved if Iraq invaded Kuwait to defend their oil agreement. The official said no.

Later, a higher government official decided that the U$A would defend Kuwait . . . but didn't tell SH. The sides shaped up and bingo . . . Desertstorm I was poisoning Americans and "the enemy" with low grade uranium tipped munitions . . .

 

[Don K Dyck]

You're full of shit.

The biologicals were shipped under a Dept. of Commerce liscense. CIA didn't have a damn thing to do with it. That liscense was applied for, and granted, under conditions of a UN treaty to which the US is a signatory.

Here's the link to the "Reigle" report section that DonKey is saying says what it doesn't say;

Riegle report biologicals

His reference to the chemicals is also a lie. Here's what the Reigle report has to say about Iraqs chemical weapons;



It was known that Iraqs chemical programs were of Soviet origin based on the residual traces of Mycotoxins found in both Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation and from the Kurdish areas of Iraq that Saddam gassed. The Soviets loaded their chemical agents up with mycotoxins to augment their effectiveness.

Ishmael

Geez Ishmael . . . still being paid as a CIA apologist?

 

[Borscht]

How dare I remind you of the mass murders and the tortures!.

Fallujah and Abu Ghraib.

How dare I remind you of the gassings of the Kurds!.

White phosphorous use against civilians.

How dare I remind you of the invasions of Iran and Kuwait!!.

Iraq.

If Saddam get's off I reckon he should run for office in the States. Give him a shave and a cowboy hat and you just know the Dumbfuckistanis would vote him in.

 

[Borscht]

You're full of shit.

LMAO.

Who could fail to be convinced by such a petulant whine ?

You certainly sold me, Ishmael.

All I need now is an elephant badge, a lobotomy and a welfare check.

 

[Gringao]

Here's another: Did Saddam's staff give him accurate information about his WMD's?

And one possible answer: Saddam overstated his WMD capacity because he wanted to seem more powerful than he was.

That's possible, but not probable. Saddam's regime had multiple and interlocking domestic intelligence organizations to not only keep the Iraqi populace cowed, but the other intelligence organizations as well. Any heterodox idea in one group would surely have been found out and exposed by one of the others. It's possible that an inter-agency conspiracy to misinform Saddam's inner circle existed, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[Gringao]

Or, he wanted to hide that he used thousands more chemical weapons during the Iran war than he told the UN.

I just find it just a bit humorous that some people don't trust Saddam's reporting before the US invasion. Yet, they don't seem to have a problem with his reporting from the Iran war. It would be quite logical for a paranoid man like Saddam to want to hide the possiblity that he used thousand more chemical weapons than he claimed. No one at the time knew for sure what he had used. It's a very logical and plausible possibility. There was no way to know if the documentation that was found wasn't cooked, or even represented everything if it wasn't.

There was no reason for Saddam and his minions to hide their consumption of chemical weapons during the Iran/Iraq war. They had used them with almost complete impunity on the Iranians and there was little world outcry to bring Saddam to account for their use, much less any push to thwart Iraq's sovereignty to the point that such documents could be recovered and used in his prosecution.

Even if there was some attempt at deception of persons unspecified at the time, there would still be a "first set" of books kept on actual inventories of remaining WMD so the military could still work from accurate information. The "second set" of books would be produced for those the regime intended to deceive, while the true documents would be retained in secret. Iraqi officials would not object to the incorrect set being confiscated and used by UNSCOM...that would be the Iraqis' intent, after all.

 

[Gringao]

Uhmmm . . . a little facts break here . . .

The border between Iraq and Kuwait traverses a large oilfield that the Kuwaitis were milking faster than they had agreed with Iraq to satisfy AmeriKKKan oil corporations . . .

Saddam Hussein had asked them to abide by their agreement and the Kuwaitis told him to "bugger off". SH approached a minor U$ embassy official and asked would the U$A become involved if Iraq invaded Kuwait to defend their oil agreement. The official said no.

Later, a higher government official decided that the U$A would defend Kuwait . . . but didn't tell SH. The sides shaped up and bingo . . . Desertstorm I was poisoning Americans and "the enemy" with low grade uranium tipped munitions . . .

Let me get this straight, Dick - you're defending Saddam's invasion of Kuwait?

 

[Slowlane]

Did you take note in the article of how Zarqawi got his minions press credentials to be used to 'case' the targets, and then have a crew on hand to videotape the results to be given to al Jezeerah?

The guy's not dumb by any means.

Ishmael

It would be a serious mistake to think of the enemy as anything but highly intelligent. Insanity, doesnt mean stupidity.

 

[Slowlane]

Fallujah and Abu Ghraib.



White phosphorous use against civilians.



Iraq.

If Saddam get's off I reckon he should run for office in the States. Give him a shave and a cowboy hat and you just know the Dumbfuckistanis would vote him in.

Some hazing at the prison isn’t quite the same as killing hundreds of thousands of Kurds.

There is no credible evidence that phosphorous was used against civilians (There are a lot of holes in that story.)

I won’t even bother with the last one.

Where do you guys come up with this shit? No facts, not even a good rumor, but you’re convinced anyway.