Why are there more gay men then gay women?

[Powertone]

P.S. ParrishP: You are a hottie and I would do you in a heartbeat!

me too.

 

[none2_none2]

So silly observation time. A gay man is obviously gay when he walks around with a purse. A gay woman is not obviously gay when she walks around without a purse, in jeans and tshirt...

I don't think I have seen a guy with a purse in years. When I last saw such a guy, I think he was actually in the early stages of his transexual transformation.

I think most gay guys try to figure out if another guy is gay by his eyes. Even some timid guys will tend to use their eyes to stare at their object of interest. So if you notice a guy who pays no attention to women around him, and who doesn't stare at food (food addiction) and who isn't staring at a booze bottle (drinking addiction), observe if he looks at guys directly. If he does he is most likely gay or bi oriented. Guys in general don't do a lot of direct eye contact with each other -- even with their friends. So a guy who does so, probably is seeing something of interest.

As for women, I don't see a lot of women doing a "stare down" at other people regardless of their preferences. She may look more directly at the person she is talking to, but it isn't an overwhelming "stare". I was also told that when women are interested they can be rather coy. I don't think it is genetic, it is just that our cultural programing probably tells us that women that behave in such away to be perceived as aggressive are behaving un-lady like.

I remember an encounter years ago when I "think" a girl may have been coming on to me. Since I was so use to male pursuits, I had no clue. She had her legs crossed with the top leg slowly swinging. She also kind of occasionally would slowly scratch her legs the length of her shins from time to time. She was chewing gum and her eyes were wondering around the room as she talked. She would also occasionally sip on her soft drink with the straw. I just assumed she had a long day and this was her way of unwinding. Plus, maybe she had some chigger bites that were bugging her. A week or so later, a gay (former married) friend, said I was really naive when I retold the situation. He explained that women aren't going to grab their crotches and stare you down or come right up to your face and say "lets get it on".

A perfect example of un-usual behavior can be seen sometimes in movies. I have seen parts of "A 40 year old virgin". One scene that really seemed weird to me was the scene where the lady co-worker (I think she was his superior) started talking about how she could take care of his "problem". That she had developed early in life, and thus was very capable in the arts of pleasure. She talked about becoming his "fuck buddy"... Anyway, you could see how uncomfortable the 40 year old virgin became by looking at his eyes and his facial expression. That just is so atypical of how a woman interacts. I think the writers deliberately did that just to make the scene interesting -- and it worked...

Anyway my point is I don't think lesbians are as obvious because female sexuality in general just isn't that obvious. (I'm excluding the glossy magazines geared towards str8 men that makes it sound like a woman would pounce on anybody if you would only ask her to.) Women don't go around scratching or grabbing their private parts to show an urgent "need". They also don't just come up to you and grab your privates. I assume they also don't "sneak a peak" in the restroom as a guy can do so easily at a man's urinal.

Thus I don't think it is a gay male vs gay female thing as much as it is that men are supposed to show sexual interest and go for it. Where as ladies are supposed to be less obvious.

Finally, as to clothing. I cannot tell if a guy is gay by what he wears. There are st8 guys into cross dressing. There are str8 guys who have tattoos and piercings. There are str8 guys who wear cowboy outfits, construction outfits, biker outfits. There are also guys (mainly younger) who obsess about grooming.

As to the lesbians, there at least was time when it seamed as though at least the butch lesbians try to look VERY tomboyish. I don't think they are the majority, but they can be pretty obvious. I'm talking about wearing ties, wearing shirts that "hide" any hint that they have breasts, very male looking hair cuts, male pants that are very loose so you don't know if there is a "bulge" or not. Sometimes I wonder if this "look" is because they are hoping that when they are with a more feminine partner , that people will leave them alone suspecting that one of them may actually be a man.

 

[Bill3250]

Why
why? why? why? why? why...

I see gay men everywhere recently... where are the women??
I can't spot them

I think women are just better at hiding their sexual preferences. My wife kept her bi-sexual tastes hidden from me for many years....until one night, at a party I came upon her making it with another woman.

 

[Etoile]

I split off leglicker's posts to here:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=27342133

 

[infinity706]

I don't think I have seen a guy with a purse in years. When I last saw such a guy, I think he was actually in the early stages of his transexual transformation.

I think most gay guys try to figure out if another guy is gay by his eyes. Even some timid guys will tend to use their eyes to stare at their object of interest. So if you notice a guy who pays no attention to women around him, and who doesn't stare at food (food addiction) and who isn't staring at a booze bottle (drinking addiction), observe if he looks at guys directly. If he does he is most likely gay or bi oriented. Guys in general don't do a lot of direct eye contact with each other -- even with their friends. So a guy who does so, probably is seeing something of interest.

As for women, I don't see a lot of women doing a "stare down" at other people regardless of their preferences. She may look more directly at the person she is talking to, but it isn't an overwhelming "stare". I was also told that when women are interested they can be rather coy. I don't think it is genetic, it is just that our cultural programing probably tells us that women that behave in such away to be perceived as aggressive are behaving un-lady like.

I remember an encounter years ago when I "think" a girl may have been coming on to me. Since I was so use to male pursuits, I had no clue. She had her legs crossed with the top leg slowly swinging. She also kind of occasionally would slowly scratch her legs the length of her shins from time to time. She was chewing gum and her eyes were wondering around the room as she talked. She would also occasionally sip on her soft drink with the straw. I just assumed she had a long day and this was her way of unwinding. Plus, maybe she had some chigger bites that were bugging her. A week or so later, a gay (former married) friend, said I was really naive when I retold the situation. He explained that women aren't going to grab their crotches and stare you down or come right up to your face and say "lets get it on".

A perfect example of un-usual behavior can be seen sometimes in movies. I have seen parts of "A 40 year old virgin". One scene that really seemed weird to me was the scene where the lady co-worker (I think she was his superior) started talking about how she could take care of his "problem". That she had developed early in life, and thus was very capable in the arts of pleasure. She talked about becoming his "fuck buddy"... Anyway, you could see how uncomfortable the 40 year old virgin became by looking at his eyes and his facial expression. That just is so atypical of how a woman interacts. I think the writers deliberately did that just to make the scene interesting -- and it worked...

Anyway my point is I don't think lesbians are as obvious because female sexuality in general just isn't that obvious. (I'm excluding the glossy magazines geared towards str8 men that makes it sound like a woman would pounce on anybody if you would only ask her to.) Women don't go around scratching or grabbing their private parts to show an urgent "need". They also don't just come up to you and grab your privates. I assume they also don't "sneak a peak" in the restroom as a guy can do so easily at a man's urinal.

Thus I don't think it is a gay male vs gay female thing as much as it is that men are supposed to show sexual interest and go for it. Where as ladies are supposed to be less obvious.

Finally, as to clothing. I cannot tell if a guy is gay by what he wears. There are st8 guys into cross dressing. There are str8 guys who have tattoos and piercings. There are str8 guys who wear cowboy outfits, construction outfits, biker outfits. There are also guys (mainly younger) who obsess about grooming.

As to the lesbians, there at least was time when it seamed as though at least the butch lesbians try to look VERY tomboyish. I don't think they are the majority, but they can be pretty obvious. I'm talking about wearing ties, wearing shirts that "hide" any hint that they have breasts, very male looking hair cuts, male pants that are very loose so you don't know if there is a "bulge" or not. Sometimes I wonder if this "look" is because they are hoping that when they are with a more feminine partner , that people will leave them alone suspecting that one of them may actually be a man.

Well, that may work in most cases, but of all the women I've ever met that use the "get over here and fuck me good" approach, I don't remember them getting turned down very often. Yeah, they tend to intimidate a lot of guys at first, but it's not like they miss their targets very often. Of course, as for me, I certainly enjoy that approach. Being pursued by a woman is fun.

 

[fauconier]

Well, that may work in most cases, but of all the women I've ever met that use the "get over here and fuck me good" approach, I don't remember them getting turned down very often. Yeah, they tend to intimidate a lot of guys at first, but it's not like they miss their targets very often. Of course, as for me, I certainly enjoy that approach. Being pursued by a woman is fun.

Being pursued can be fun, I agree. I enjoy flirting. But I think many people, whatever their orientation, would not like to be aggressively pursued by just anyone, especially someone they didn't know at all. The few times this has happened to me, it wasn't a turn-on---more like bewildering. I wanted to say (and did in so many words) 'But you don't even know me!' There is a cultural double standard in how men and women are expected to express desire. But beyond that, the most sexually seductive people I've met (I work in health care) have actually been some of the saddest: mentally ill people who had such a poor sense of personal boundaries or such poor judgement (or who were in a manic state) that they had little or no ability to stop themselves from pursuing strangers or other completely inappropriate persons. That ultra-seductive person we meet just might be bipolar, and under the influence of something besides our overwhelming charms. In that case, they need someone to respect her or his boundaries---something we all of course need to do anyway.

 

[none2_none2]

Being pursued can be fun, I agree. I enjoy flirting. But I think many people, whatever their orientation, would not like to be aggressively pursued by just anyone, especially someone they didn't know at all. The few times this has happened to me, it wasn't a turn-on---more like bewildering. I wanted to say (and did in so many words) 'But you don't even know me!' There is a cultural double standard in how men and women are expected to express desire. But beyond that, the most sexually seductive people I've met (I work in health care) have actually been some of the saddest: mentally ill people who had such a poor sense of personal boundaries or such poor judgement (or who were in a manic state) that they had little or no ability to stop themselves from pursuing strangers or other completely inappropriate persons. That ultra-seductive person we meet just might be bipolar, and under the influence of something besides our overwhelming charms. In that case, they need someone to respect her or his boundaries---something we all of course need to do anyway.

I don't think it works quite that to put a lot of people under the category of mentally ill if they do a lot of seducing. I've been in a monogamous relationship for 6 years this coming Labor Day. Sure I look at porn (visual & text), but I really have no desire (impulsive or planned) to go outside the relationship for sex. The most important reason I don't seek out others is that this is what I have always wanted: one man, one love, one lifetime. At my age, you realize that one's word and integrity is so much more important and enduring than looks or seductiveness. So when I say I love him, that also includes keeping my zipper up. I find that a guy with honarable integrity a lot more attractive than bulging muscles, hot ass, plastic surgery, or whatever things guys do to appear to be desirable.

That being said, if my man were to die suddenly, what would I do? I don't have that planned out as I don't wish such a thing to happen. But if it were to happen and knowing myself, I'm sure the initial phase would be that I would first keep to myself and isolate. However, eventually a part of me would desire sexual contact again as I do still have a fairly strong drive. (JO'ing alone for me would only work for a short time before I would want something more.) In that situation, I think I would prefer to seek out strangers. It isn't about being mentally ill, but I be lying to say that I can stop caring for one person and then start caring for another just because it is time to move on. Obviously, I don't have personal experience with death of a significant other, but I have dealt with relationships that ended. It would be disingenuous of me to even pretend to be interested in jumping into another relationship. If I tried too soon, I would most likely try to mold that other guy into being a "replacement". That would be unfair not only to the other guy, but also to the memory of the lost loved one. Everyone is irreplaceable as each of is is unique.

Now a lot of guys (at least gay guys) always seem to feel that there is something healthy between sex with a stranger and sex in a monogamous long term relationship. I think for many of them the ideal would be a chain of friends that they can count on for sexual relief. There may be some emotional bond, but there is more the familiarity that interests them. You might see that as more healthy or less destructive, but personally I cannot relate to it. A sexual encounter to me doesn't have to always be about till death do us part, but neither can I related to something that turns into a familiar set of standing appointments: "I've got a BJ on the calender with Bill on the first Fridays of every month. I've got a hot fuck with Jim on Tuesdays & Thursdays on the 2nd and 4th weeks of the month. John can do whatever on any Wednesday as long as I call in advance that morning. Bill, Jim & John also have a standing planned orgy on the 15th of every month..."

The fuck buddy love fest can only go so far with me. Eventually, it is time for me to get more serious with a particular person, or move on. It isn't about low self-esteem or needing to control someone as many anti-monogamy gay men state. It is just too fucking "weird" for me. I'll never let myself fall into that kind of thing again. I only got myself into those situations when I was younger because I had that preached to me by other gay guys as the way healthy male sexuality has to be.

I remember one f-buddy that I hung onto for years because the sex was so good and I always hoped it might be something more one day. Anyway, I remember one day he called me up and was concerned that I was "getting around" too much. His excuse was that he was monogamous with ALL his partners (I don't know where he and some gays get their dictionary of sexual terms.) Somehow in his head an ever expansion of f-buddies that he could drop in for a brew and an orgasm was male sexuality at its finest.

Anyway, in summary, I hope you understand that people have all sorts of reasons for what they do. In the case of seduction with strangers, it is not necessarily that they are bipolar. It could be a period of their life where this is the most comfortable place to be.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Bumped in the name of diversity.

 

[Stella_Omega]

None2_none2 is one of the most genuine guys who ever posted here.

That said, I wonder if ParrishP's gaydar ever blinked on?

 

[sarod]

Lesbian pick up line: " Lez be friends!"

 

[LizzyDark]

Why
why? why? why? why? why...

I see gay men everywhere recently... where are the women??
I can't spot them

Statistically speaking, you're right, there are more gay men than gay women by a margin of almost two to one. When you hear people saying about 10% of the population is gay, they're actually getting it a little wrong. The census data they're quoting says 7% of men are and 3% of women and then they add those together to get 10%, which is sort of true, I guess.

On the other side of that, there are waaaaaay more bi/bi-curious/bi-leaning women than men. So if you're just looking for girl-girl contact, and don't care if it's with a gold star, you have pretty good odds as long as you're willing to look into bi girls.

As a lot of people have already pointed out, a huge swath of the gay community is indiscernible from anyone else, but that goes for men and women. I'm usually labeled an ultra-femme or a lipstick and I'm dating the same; we get mistaken for straight all the time even though I'm a gold star and the last boyfriend she had was in high school.

 

[janeyruth]

In those lame LGBT organizations, the men ALWAYS take over and run the show. Sure, they find a couple of "Uncle Tom" lesbians and give them cool-sounding titles so they can project a "diverse" image to the world, but have you ever noticed (I'm sounding like Seinfeld now) that, in any LGBT goup, the lesbians end up being some kind of a ladies' auxiliary?

Why a lesbian would join a gay group that includes men is beyond me. They don't have the same interests, wants, fantasies. They sure as hell don't fuck the same...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yep, janey, I've noticed that.

 

[Chrissi]

Perhaps it is a matter of visibility rather than one of quantity. I apologise that in my normal mode of dress, you cannot visually distinguish me from heterosexual women. My overbearing tribulation is to appear much as a normal human being. I am sorry.

Exactly.

Sometimes I wish I was more obviously gay, but I'm not going to go out of my way to look like it.

Yes, and Yes.

My most visible sign of "gayness" is the rainbow patterned necklace that I wear. But generally a person has to be pretty close up to me to see it, and understand it. If it brings a smile to a guy face, then I know. If not, well then, okay...

 

[Acal]

I think woman are a hell of a lot more open about this sort of thing then guys are, you'd probably be surprised, just go out there and try it. Doesn't really hurt to try, its not like many women have the same hangups that men do about homosexuality

 

[grrlongrrrl]

Gay men are just noisier.

K

 

[none2_none2]

None2_none2 is one of the most genuine guys who ever posted here.

That said, I wonder if ParrishP's gaydar ever blinked on?

Thanks for the complement.


I should say around 1996, my judgment would have been too clouded to see it as a complement. I had a very intense relationship at the time with a Methodist preacher. I thought it was that soulmate situation -- he was a 50 year old virgin to gay sex, looking for love, saying and doing the right thing...

To cut past the sad violins, two years into our relationship he basically said he had never loved me. It took YEARS to get past that betrayal because I hadn't "imagined" we were in love -- he said AND acted the part. It wasn't that I couldn't imagine how someone could do that after two years to "saintly" me, but how "saintly" him could do that to ANY human being. (I should have known that he had done that "sexually" to his wife after 15 years, but I blamed that on society's homophobia.) Anyway, the one complement he gave me was that I had been one of the most genuine human beings he had ever met.

I did learn from that situation that there are times it is best to keep your feelings to yourself - not to lie, but don't show your cards to everyone. If you do you might get hurt. I think that is why I like these anonymous boards. I don't have time to dream up some fantasy image of myself since it would be too hard to remember some lie/fantasy I could dream up, but I can be honest and know that the worst I can get hurt is by text on the screen. Somehow that is my security blanket.

 

[none2_none2]

In those lame LGBT organizations, the men ALWAYS take over and run the show. Sure, they find a couple of "Uncle Tom" lesbians and give them cool-sounding titles so they can project a "diverse" image to the world, but have you ever noticed (I'm sounding like Seinfeld now) that, in any LGBT goup, the lesbians end up being some kind of a ladies' auxiliary?

Why a lesbian would join a gay group that includes men is beyond me. They don't have the same interests, wants, fantasies. They sure as hell don't fuck the same...

What a narrow minded view of the world.

I was in an AIDS assistance group for a time back in the late 80's and early 90's. The director was a lesbian. Call it a cool-sounding title if you like, but she was in charge until a few months before she died of lupus. She was no ones fag hag nor "Uncle Tom", nor was her role limited to baking cookies and serving tea at fund raisers. She was an RN by profession. She did a log of good for gay men as well as any other individuals that had AIDS or loved ones with it.

Note I moved to the country 3 years ago, before that I lived in a house in town for about 22 years. My friend, and neighbor down the street in town has the same taste in classical music as I do. I guess neither one of us attended the correct LBGT cultural organization so that we would have known that our tastes should have been divergent. (Perhaps I was supposed to love disco, and she was supposed to like guitar, folk music?) We also had the same wants and desires for our neighborhood and college town. We still keep in touch every few weeks, but I now live 17 miles away.

There is a lot more to life, love, and friendships than only hanging around with those that have the the crotch parts you like to play with. If I wanted to live in a gay male ghetto, I certainly wouldn't have moved to the country.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It is a narrow- minded view, None2_none2, but not without a basis in experience. I've encountered gay male disdain for women in five cities so far... Philly, NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, L.A.

It's pretty frustrating.

 

[Etoile]

I've encountered plenty of misogyny among gay men, but I find it to be the exception, not the rule. Most gay guys are perfectly normal, but some are sexist jerks. Actually, the same can be said of straight men.

Of course, there are man-hating lesbians too. But again... exception, not rule.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've encountered plenty of misogyny among gay men, but I find it to be the exception, not the rule. Most gay guys are perfectly normal, but some are sexist jerks. Actually, the same can be said of straight men.

Of course, there are man-hating lesbians too. But again... exception, not rule.

Oh, definitely. But this is specifically within advocacy and hospice organisations. I'm sorry I didn't make that a little more clear.

 

[none2_none2]

It is a narrow- minded view, None2_none2, but not without a basis in experience. I've encountered gay male disdain for women in five cities so far... Philly, NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, L.A.

It's pretty frustrating.

I'm not denying it exists, but I think it is insulting to those lesbians that do have a role in a mixed organization to just dismiss them as some token lesbian. I don't know any lesbians that are simply push overs for men -- especially gay men.

I do get tired of that very "vocal" minority that think it is ok to tell fish jokes. I go a bit further and feel somewhat uncomfortable with drag queens. It amazes me that plenty of lesbians seem to find it funny -- like gay men do. I find it more on the order of Al Jolsen and his painted black faces. However, if it is an insult to women, then I have to leave it up to lesbians to complain about it to drag queens as it doesn't sound like a genuine complaint when a gay guy finds fault with it. Rather, it comes across as being a party pooper.

My sexuality is about attraction to hairy, muscular, masculine men. It isn't about repulsion to sex with women. I think some gay men go out of their way to make it vocal that they are repulsed by female's bodies. If you take that attitude into LBGT organizations, it is going to affect the fairness for all those who want to participate. I think that attitude is more about being the "other" than an actual repulsion. Lets face it, we all came out of our mother's reproductive systems. So it is kind of pathetic to claim to get so grossed out by it.

I think the big thing is the dislike for str8 male sexuality. I can very much relate to that, but I don't need to diminish myself by stooping to anti-female comments. What I mean by resentment for str8 male sexuality, I always despised the way you were SUPPOSED to ogle women, whistle at women, talk about them all the time and what you wish to do with them. I still remember how my dad explained about girls being "sugar & spice, and everything nice", and that boys were snakes & snails and puppy dog tails". Yea, sure dad. I also very much resent how my dad made me hang around the house in the nude while he had his hookers in the house. I think he was hoping that in addition to humiliating me he also wanted to make me a "man". I think we also see this str8 male sexuality biased attitude in the whole never-gay-but-love-cock crowd.

So I think when gay men are in a mixed organization they have to remember that the lesbians ARE there to help -- not to resent them because they remind them of their failings to be a "real man" by the str8 definition. They also have to remember to check in the man-must-take-charge mentality that many of us were raised with. There is a purpose for every organization and as long as that remains the focus, everything should go just fine. All go to those organizations to help, and the more all are able to contribute the more likely the organization will achieve its goals and survive over a longer period of time.

 

[curvybritlady]

I just wish more women would wear a "I am gay sign"

That would make my dating life so much easier.

In all seriousness, though, I quite often see a disparity between opinion on male-male relations and female-female relations. Some people think lesbians are completely wrong but gay men are fine, some others feel the opposite. The fact is, there is a difference. Perhaps that affects how vocal a particular group is?

For example, at my old college there was a lot of general homophobia around, so naturally I kept it to myself that I like women. Now I'm in a much more understanding and supportive environment and I don't hide it.

Personally, I think potential friends/partners won't know you're available until you let people know you swing differently. It's a tricky balance between protecting yourself and getting in touch with like-minded people, so I try to keep to situations where I know I'll be supported so I can say "I'm gay," freely.

 

[vrosej10]

Why
why? why? why? why? why...

I see gay men everywhere recently... where are the women??
I can't spot them

The only explaination I ever heard for this was rather essentialistic and unsatisfactory; it is to do with the difference in sex drive between men and women. The higher drive in me ultimately forces them to go with their orientation, whereas lower sex drive in women allows them to suppress it. Frankly I think it's a crock of shit but it is the only one I have ever heard.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The only explaination I ever heard for this was rather essentialistic and unsatisfactory; it is to do with the difference in sex drive between men and women. The higher drive in me ultimately forces them to go with their orientation, whereas lower sex drive in women allows them to suppress it. Frankly I think it's a crock of shit but it is the only one I have ever heard.

i think that's sort of an almost-explanation except that whoever thought of it got the reason wrong--it isn't about the sex drive (as we all know) it might be that men, in general, have a more linear mind-set when it comes to identity.

It's very possible that many women who have a few same-sex encounters don't feel they have to act out (except the butch, male-identified ones ) and it's also very possible that many men who have a few same sex encounters feel they do have to make an identity change.

or, not.