will the Uk gov give the people a new brexit referendum?

[hobbit.]

ukip and farage were ALWAYS too far to the right

that is no way to talk about the left wing of the boris johnsom fan club.

 

[SalviaDivinorum]

Sorry, but this is a 100% right wing fuckup. Whatever Corby's reservations are concerning the EU, it was Cameron, Johnson and Farage who set this in motion.

I'm currently based on the continent, because of work, and I'm seeing Scottish ads on my Twitter and Facebook feeds, like the Union is already over..things are changing in a way I wouldn't have imagined a couple of years ago.

Anyway, this came across my Twitter feed the other day and it's worth a read, even though it's long.

"My granddad was an avid nazi until his death in the early 90s. He was a small town banker, volunteered in 1940 and became a staff sergeant in the Wehrmacht. He was leading a so called "anti partisan" unit at the Eastern Front, participated in the capture of Kiev.

We believe he participated in the massacre of Baby Jar and others. Until his death he would start ranting about how it was all the jew's fault. He did never leave the country and be in near panic when coming close to a border.

My maternal grandfather was a teacher from Duisburg. When he had to go to war he left his wife, 2 kids, his camera and his library and all hope of survival behind. Surviving 3 years on the Eastern Front he never played music again, never started Photography again. A broken man.
My maternal grandmother lived through war in central Duisburg. She was "bombed out" three times, meaning that her flat or house got a direct hit. Few of the families belongings survived.

My father was born in 1944. Growing up in a post war Nazi household he started reading early and entered the scouts. He became a social democrat with a boiling rage against anything even remotely right wing. My mother, born in 1947, met him in 1968 at Uni. Protesting Nazis
They build a home for five children, full of music, books, art and a clear stern understanding that being German came with a responsibility to be very careful with your politics. Books about Nazi Germanies crimes aplenty at home.
During my childhood I was evacuated four times because somebody found a WWII bomb again. Since then I have been evacuated twice for the same reason. We visited Verdun and Bergen-Belsen in School.
All five of us where send abroad multiple times. Learned several languages and where encouraged to travel far and wide. My best friend is a jew from manhattan living in norway. Every time I visit her I cherish the thought of my granddad turning in his grave.
A united Europe is our legacy. The EU is a guarantee of peace and prosperity, not an economic project.
Seeing my father play with my nephew I am witnessing the first three consecutive generations of Germans living in uninterrupted peace. Ever. Nobody is going to endanger that unopposed.

In addition: when the Berlin Eall came down in 1989 my parents woke all the kids. We sat in front of the TV sipping our first Champagne and looking at our parents cry. My father told me that this is the day WWII truly ended. And our European friends made it possible."


RA Matthias Bergmann
@Bergmann_Mat

 

[butters]

Sorry, but this is a 100% right wing fuckup. Whatever Corby's reservations are concerning the EU, it was Cameron, Johnson and Farage who set this in motion.

I'm currently based on the continent, because of work, and I'm seeing Scottish ads on my Twitter and Facebook feeds, like the Union is already over..things are changing in a way I wouldn't have imagined a couple of years ago.

Anyway, this came across my Twitter feed the other day and it's worth a read, even though it's long.

"My granddad was an avid nazi until his death in the early 90s. He was a small town banker, volunteered in 1940 and became a staff sergeant in the Wehrmacht. He was leading a so called "anti partisan" unit at the Eastern Front, participated in the capture of Kiev.

We believe he participated in the massacre of Baby Jar and others. Until his death he would start ranting about how it was all the jew's fault. He did never leave the country and be in near panic when coming close to a border.

My maternal grandfather was a teacher from Duisburg. When he had to go to war he left his wife, 2 kids, his camera and his library and all hope of survival behind. Surviving 3 years on the Eastern Front he never played music again, never started Photography again. A broken man.
My maternal grandmother lived through war in central Duisburg. She was "bombed out" three times, meaning that her flat or house got a direct hit. Few of the families belongings survived.

My father was born in 1944. Growing up in a post war Nazi household he started reading early and entered the scouts. He became a social democrat with a boiling rage against anything even remotely right wing. My mother, born in 1947, met him in 1968 at Uni. Protesting Nazis
They build a home for five children, full of music, books, art and a clear stern understanding that being German came with a responsibility to be very careful with your politics. Books about Nazi Germanies crimes aplenty at home.
During my childhood I was evacuated four times because somebody found a WWII bomb again. Since then I have been evacuated twice for the same reason. We visited Verdun and Bergen-Belsen in School.
All five of us where send abroad multiple times. Learned several languages and where encouraged to travel far and wide. My best friend is a jew from manhattan living in norway. Every time I visit her I cherish the thought of my granddad turning in his grave.
A united Europe is our legacy. The EU is a guarantee of peace and prosperity, not an economic project.
Seeing my father play with my nephew I am witnessing the first three consecutive generations of Germans living in uninterrupted peace. Ever. Nobody is going to endanger that unopposed.

In addition: when the Berlin Eall came down in 1989 my parents woke all the kids. We sat in front of the TV sipping our first Champagne and looking at our parents cry. My father told me that this is the day WWII truly ended. And our European friends made it possible."


RA Matthias Bergmann
@Bergmann_Mat

 

[stickygirl]

I'll add more roses to that


Don't take peace for granted

 

[ishtat]

And if the Brits did have another referendum, don't assume that the result will be a resounding yes. The people are sick of being told what to think by both left and right.

Personally, I would like to see Jacob Rees-Mogg become PM for two reasons;-

1 to make Hobbit happy.

2 to hear the rest of the world exclaim WTF in unison.

 

[hobbit.]

And if the Brits did have another referendum, don't assume that the result will be a resounding yes. The people are sick of being told what to think by both left and right.

Personally, I would like to see Jacob Rees-Mogg become PM for two reasons;-

1 to make Hobbit happy.

2 to hear the rest of the world exclaim WTF in unison.

Jacob might be quite good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du5ZF0uH38g&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhckHd7el4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcT1hqntekA

edited to add some of jacobs words.

for balance -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwi79iMQUo

 

[oggbashan]

The House of Commons voted tonight on four possible scenarios.

They rejected all four...

 

[stickygirl]

The House of Commons voted tonight on four possible scenarios.

They rejected all four...

If our representatives can't manage it, they should let the people have another go

 

[MutualMan]

If our representatives can't manage it, they should let the people have another go

I do so agree, can you understand why they deny a second vote, I can't.

 

[ishtat]

If our representatives can't manage it, they should let the people have another go

They (Remain MP's) don't want a 2nd referendum because it would be a doddle for the Brexiteers to frame it as not only an anti Europe vote but as an anti Westminster/London'elite' vote.

It's very easy to run an anti-politician campaign and I suspect that the Brexiteers could win again.

 

[stickygirl]

They (Remain MP's) don't want a 2nd referendum because it would be a doddle for the Brexiteers to frame it as not only an anti Europe vote but as an anti Westminster/London'elite' vote.

It's very easy to run an anti-politician campaign and I suspect that the Brexiteers could win again.

Interesting point. The right were happy to lie through their teeth last time so they'll only spin another set of lies for a 2nd run. The remainers would need to show some oak in their cocks if they want a result.
Let's see... "We must leave the EU because they're blocking our every attempt to negotiate a settlement - they can't be trusted. No deal is better...."

 

[ishtat]

Interesting point. The right were happy to lie through their teeth last time so they'll only spin another set of lies for a 2nd run. The remainers would need to show some oak in their cocks if they want a result.
Let's see... "We must leave the EU because they're blocking our every attempt to negotiate a settlement - they can't be trusted. No deal is better...."

Repeat slowly This is not a left v right issue. A substantial majority of working people voted leave. Mebbe they were a little tired of the deeply patronising remainers telling them what to think.

Barnier and May have given these people nothing - so why should you assume they might change.

 

[stickygirl]

Repeat slowly This is not a left v right issue. A substantial majority of working people voted leave. Mebbe they were a little tired of the deeply patronising remainers telling them what to think.

Barnier and May have given these people nothing - so why should you assume they might change.

So "working people" are inherently left wing?

 

[ishtat]

So "working people" are inherently left wing?

No 30% plus or minus 5% have voted Tory since Adam was a boy.

If you want it plainly put, my fundamental point is that no amount of patronising by remainer 'know it alls' is necessarily going to produce a change of mind by Brexit voters. Accusing them all of being rightwingers will be counter productive.

I believe that these people ( the Brexit voters of both right and left ) have been sidelined in political discourse by all the parties for the past 30 years. They were sick of this attitude when they voted Brexit, and they are not gonna like it when dumb remainers carry on abusing them rather than listening and explaining.

 

[HisArpy]

No 30% plus or minus 5% have voted Tory since Adam was a boy.

If you want it plainly put, my fundamental point is that no amount of patronising by remainer 'know it alls' is necessarily going to produce a change of mind by Brexit voters. Accusing them all of being rightwingers will be counter productive.

I believe that these people ( the Brexit voters of both right and left ) have been sidelined in political discourse by all the parties for the past 30 years. They were sick of this attitude when they voted Brexit, and they are not gonna like it when dumb remainers carry on abusing them rather than listening and explaining.

Or to put it another way, leadership telling the voters they don't like the outcome of the Brexit vote and want a do-over isn't a smart play. Neither is delaying on what the voters told their leadership to do.

The social/political meltdown is going to be epic.

 

[Dribble]

Or to put it another way, leadership telling the voters they don't like the outcome of the Brexit vote and want a do-over isn't a smart play. Neither is delaying on what the voters told their leadership to do.

The social/political meltdown is going to be epic.

Congress refused to fund a wall...but Donald Duck decided to steal monies from funded programs. Why is it a bad idea in the UK, but a good idea in your country?

 

[oggbashan]

Congress refused to fund a wall...but Donald Duck decided to steal monies from funded programs. Why is it a bad idea in the UK, but a good idea in your country?

President Trump promised in his election campaign to build the wall; in the UK the Conservative and Labour parties promised in their election campaigns to deliver Brexit.

One is keeping his promise; the UK politicians aren't.

 

[stickygirl]

No 30% plus or minus 5% have voted Tory since Adam was a boy.

If you want it plainly put, my fundamental point is that no amount of patronising by remainer 'know it alls' is necessarily going to produce a change of mind by Brexit voters. Accusing them all of being rightwingers will be counter productive.

I believe that these people ( the Brexit voters of both right and left ) have been sidelined in political discourse by all the parties for the past 30 years. They were sick of this attitude when they voted Brexit, and they are not gonna like it when dumb remainers carry on abusing them rather than listening and explaining.

I accept both sides have been sidelined, but when it comes to dumb and dumbest, I'd say the Leave is Leave Brexiteers have their own clowns too. Attempted rail network sabotage and Rees Mogg ( maybe the same person! ) for example. My fundamental point, and possibly yours and Oggs, is that none of the Westminster clowns is fit to lead.

Or to put it another way, leadership telling the voters they don't like the outcome of the Brexit vote and want a do-over isn't a smart play. Neither is delaying on what the voters told their leadership to do.

The social/political meltdown is going to be epic.

You're right. We may have to have an extra cup of tea before lunch to mull things over properly

 

[HisArpy]

President Trump promised in his election campaign to build the wall; in the UK the Conservative and Labour parties promised in their election campaigns to deliver Brexit.

One is keeping his promise; the UK politicians aren't.

It is sad that there are millions out there who cannot see this that clearly.

 

[hobbit.]

It would be appreciated if the bad mouthing of Mr Snoop Moggy Mogg would cease.

It is distasteful to accuse him of attempting to block train lines. Manual work? FFS get a grip.

 

[hobbit.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-xLmI352vE

That nice Mr Farage.

 

[trysail]

The BREXIT Betrayal— A New Political Landscape In Britain And Meet Ze Monsta

by Pointman

"Everybody hates the phrase I told you so. If you say it, you feel like a smartass and if you’re on the receiving end of it you feel like a damn fool. By common consent, it’s usually abbreviated to an exchange of meaningful looks. Don’t say it. I wasn’t going to. About six months ago, I wrote an article called the Brexit betrayal because by then it was obvious what was happening. To anyone left who is still deluded enough to believe the political swamp in Westminster were ever going to allow Brexit to really happen, I’m giving you that look now.

There’s a German folk saying about broken promises that describes exactly what was happening. Ein Tag, einige Tag, bald – NIE! One day, some day, soon – NEVER! The game being played by the Westminster swamp was to say of course the will of the people as expressed in the Brexit referendum would be respected, and then they promptly set about undermining that expressed will of the people. Perfidious Albion at work on its own people.

The ploy of we must obviously make some sort of exit deal with the EU before Brexit could happen was introduced. No such deal was required of course. Then it split into various sub-deals such as a soft Brexit, a hard Brexit and multiple subtle variations so complex that I’m reminded of Lord Palmerston’s remark about the Schleswig-Holstein question. It was so complicated that only three men in Europe had ever really grasped it fully. One was Prince Albert, who was dead, the second was some genius German professor who’d since gone quite insane and the third was his good self, but by now he’d quite forgotten the finer details of it.

This was with the full connivance of an unelected EU bureaucracy who’d play Mister Nasty setting impossible exit conditions and a plucky Theresa May would gamely shuttle back and forth between Westminster and Brussels playing the traitorous part of an honest broker while actually undermining Brexit. Everyone was supposed to be in awe of her sheer gutsy determination to finally bring home a great deal for Britain, which would actually be bolting Britain onto the EU forever. That was her personal political survival strategy. Career first, country second and fuck the will of the people.

They managed to drag it out for nearly three years in the sure and certain expectation that people would get sick and tired of the whole business, they’d make a phoney Brexit deal with the EU that’d effectively keep Britain in the EU and the great Peasants’ Revolt of 2016 would finally have been put down..."
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