World Trade Center-Plane Crash
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captainb
Driving You Mad
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Careful now! If a known terrorist was hiding in your town, are you automatically harboring him? There's a fine line between terrorism and war. And if we obliterate a town to kill a terrorist, .... well, it's a fine line and we're feeling for it in the dark.
Anubis1947
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Remember that (assuming this act was perpetrated by Islamic terrorists) they do not care if they put a padlock on their own coffin. To them this is a Jihad (a holy war); to die in this war guarantees them a direct ticket to paradise.
Palestine, as a country, could never organize or pull something like this off. Too poor, not enough resources.
However, let us not forget that the ultimate goal of Mid East terrorist organizations such as Hamas, or even the Taliban, have one goal in mind - to eradicate Israel and fully establish Palestine. In that end, they have already declared war against those who allied themselves to Israel. The US falls into that category, hency we have long ago been called the "enemy", and many terrorist organizations would love to enact a strike against the US. Unfortunately, they just might have succeeded.
However, let us not forget that the ultimate goal of Mid East terrorist organizations such as Hamas, or even the Taliban, have one goal in mind - to eradicate Israel and fully establish Palestine. In that end, they have already declared war against those who allied themselves to Israel. The US falls into that category, hency we have long ago been called the "enemy", and many terrorist organizations would love to enact a strike against the US. Unfortunately, they just might have succeeded.
CelestialBody
Starlet of India
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Renegade
Strange and Disturbed
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Was watching some video footage of the celebrating in the streets awhile ago. There were even kids out there celebrating with their elders over this. Almost feel sorry for bloodthirsty idiots like them, especialy for the young that are being brought up in their image.
And Lavender brought up good points in all this. Emotions are pretty high right now and we need to be careful in not jumping to any conclusions till we know more. It's definatly a terrorist act, but at this point there is no way to know for a fact who is responsible.
And Lavender brought up good points in all this. Emotions are pretty high right now and we need to be careful in not jumping to any conclusions till we know more. It's definatly a terrorist act, but at this point there is no way to know for a fact who is responsible.
Gilly Bean
Princess Spanky Pants
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Anubis1947 said:
Killing anyone, at anytime, is murder. I don't care if we have the red flag to go ahead, or not. If we sit there and start killing others, without knowing the facts, yes facts, then how are we any better?
We are all sickened, shocked, and angry. That is natural, and to be expected. But reguardless of what the US gov't, the people, or any one else thinks at this point, it doesn't make it fact. It is nothing more then rumor without facts to back it up. Yes, Bin Laden is RUMORED to have said it would happen. Not one of us has seen a tape, and no one in the gov't has admitted that there was a tape.
The purpose of the news system, is to speculate. Until the president comes on, and says what they have found out, most of what we hear on the news is speculative.
Please keep that in mind when screaming for innocent slaughter.
I am not overly enthusiastic for war at all. In this situation, yes, it is likely to happen. It is nearly unavoidable after an attack of this magnitude. But to declare war on someone that we don't for sure had anything at all to do with it, that makes it as bad as what they did to us.
JUDO
Flasher
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In LA 
LA
I first heard of all this at 7:05am in Los Angeles with a phone call from a friend.
Los Angeles is under full, military alert. Everything is closed: the airports, downtown, the port...the anti-terrorist police and military units are in the streets.
Personal
Like all of you, I am fighting with the rage, sadness and shock.
My imagination is playing the most gruesome retaliations for me. It's thoughts like this and the news on the television that make me believe the Devil is alive and well.
I have prayed and will continue to pray for all those victims and families of victims...and against the evil that dwells in the hearts of people.
The Speculations
I have heard the speculations about Bin Laden and the Taliban and the supposed plan for doing exactly what has taken place today.
If anyone has a news link to information that predates today about the so-called "Bin Laden" plan, I would love to see it.
A Request
Please, do what you can to keep your wits in control of your emotions.
We will find the bastards and give them their justice.
- Judo
LA
I first heard of all this at 7:05am in Los Angeles with a phone call from a friend.
Los Angeles is under full, military alert. Everything is closed: the airports, downtown, the port...the anti-terrorist police and military units are in the streets.
Personal
Like all of you, I am fighting with the rage, sadness and shock.
My imagination is playing the most gruesome retaliations for me. It's thoughts like this and the news on the television that make me believe the Devil is alive and well.
I have prayed and will continue to pray for all those victims and families of victims...and against the evil that dwells in the hearts of people.
The Speculations
I have heard the speculations about Bin Laden and the Taliban and the supposed plan for doing exactly what has taken place today.
If anyone has a news link to information that predates today about the so-called "Bin Laden" plan, I would love to see it.
A Request
Please, do what you can to keep your wits in control of your emotions.
We will find the bastards and give them their justice.
- Judo
Anubis1947
Virgin
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captainb said:
If a known terrorist is hiding in my town (unknown to me) and I die when he is taken out, I am what is known as 'collateral damage'. It is a regretable side effect of war, but we must be willing to accept it to some degree, or we can never achieve victory in any war. No target will ever be totally military.
Gilly Bean
Princess Spanky Pants
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Renegade said:
To those kids, who are celebrating.. they live in a poor world. They have listend to thier leaders telling them all thier lives that we are at fault for that. They are celebrating because they think it is right, because they have seen it happen first hands among themselves. It is sick. It is wrong. But those kids don't know that.
To them, it's justice.
Let's keep in mind, those kids are just as innocent of any wrong doings, as our own children.
PacificBlue
Beautiful
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I will 2nd that request. I know everyone is angry and upset but please try to stay calm if not for yourself, for those around you. Try to keep rumors to a minimum and go with information you know is fact...ie: from reliable news sources. What can be done will be done to bring whoever did this to justice of this much we can be sure.
Renegade
Strange and Disturbed
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Gilly Bean said:
Definatly. This is how many of them are brought up from a young age. It's sad to think of the kind of hate they're being raised to feel towards the U.S. and the joy that their elders are telling them they should feel over this tragedy.
G
Guest
Guest
I am so sad today because my son, who has never thought of terror of this kind, is scared of what is going on. My husband and nephew had taken their guns out this morning to hunt and then came home to talk about how they were glad there were people who wanted to protect this country, but they weren't willing to give their lives for the freedom that they have to carry those guns. I feel like I have been disillusioned about the people I have surrounded myself with for years. My nephew isn't even old enough to remember Desert Storm!!! What the hell is going on? I live in the greatest country in the world and I am dissappointed that my family can't see that.
I have no doubt that our government will find who perpetuated this madness. Who ever did this will have to pay for it. I just hope we can do so without adding to innocent casualties.
I have no doubt that our government will find who perpetuated this madness. Who ever did this will have to pay for it. I just hope we can do so without adding to innocent casualties.
Shy Tall Guy
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Not true; murder is defined (in legal, philosophical, religious, and moral terms) as unjustified or illegal homicide. "Killing", when speaking of humans, covers both legal (justified) and illegal homocide. The latter is murder, the former is not.Gilly Bean said:
We do not call killing in self-defense, murder. We do not call killing in the defense of others, murder.
That said, I am not agreeing with the "kill them all and let God sort them out" crowd. It is too soon to be talking of killing anybody. It could be months or even years before we learn who did this with any degree of certainty, but when we do (and we will) I hope that we are able to punish them harshly.
I know everybody is sick in their hearts, sick to their stomach, and angry. But right now, before we know all the facts, is not the time to be calling for retribution. Now is the time to pray for those killed and injured. Now is the time to help if we can. Now is the time to grieve for the victims. There will be time enough for retribution tommorrow.
STG
lavender said:
All major cities in the 'path' of any rumored threat are being evacuated. Those rumors have been disolved to a point, but there was a speculated threat of a plane in distress passing Cleavland and heading to Toledo.
So, that evacuation started here. They did it about 2 hours ago. 50 of our Air National Gaurd planes have been deployed for hours, and they are still flying.
Why? Because we are on full wartime status.
Reasonable or not, evacuating these cities (clearing up the people from the streets and public buildings) is all that we can do to prevent furthur possible, unimaginable disaster. This is all peacable evacuation, and is somewhat leasurly paced. Many private businesses still run, by their own choice, and many are closing down. To what extent, I don't know.
It is the only option here in the Eastern Upper Midwest, right now.
We'd be dumb to think that nothing furthur can happen if the military doesn't occupy their own citites for protection.
CelestialBody
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JUDO
Flasher
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LA2
Shutdowns
My understanding is that downtown Los Angeles has been shutdown and that they are not letting people in the area (as a safety precaution).
The mayor's office has asked everyone to "stay off the street" unless you have an emergency.
Los Angeles International Airport is shutdown, evacuated and bomb threats are being investigated.
Paramount, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal and Disney Studios are closed for the day and turning back their employees who show up.
All the theme parks in the area are closed, including Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farms and Six Flags Magic Mountain.
- Judo
Shutdowns
My understanding is that downtown Los Angeles has been shutdown and that they are not letting people in the area (as a safety precaution).
The mayor's office has asked everyone to "stay off the street" unless you have an emergency.
Los Angeles International Airport is shutdown, evacuated and bomb threats are being investigated.
Paramount, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal and Disney Studios are closed for the day and turning back their employees who show up.
All the theme parks in the area are closed, including Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farms and Six Flags Magic Mountain.
- Judo
Anubis1947
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It is true that revenge is best served cold. That way you can gather your resources better. The really important thing is that we do not lose focus or resolve over time.
It is absolutely imperative that every person who was in any way associated with these attacks dies a horrible and quite painful death. Those who rejoice in the death of Americans at the hands of cowards are also not innocents.
I will not apologize for my views. I was willing to die for my country in one war; my father, uncles, grandfathers and great-grandfathers before me defended their homeland; my son is now in the US Army.
I disagree vehemently with those of you who favor a peaceful response to what is in fact an act of war. Diplomacy is never an appropriate or effective response to atrocity.
It is absolutely imperative that every person who was in any way associated with these attacks dies a horrible and quite painful death. Those who rejoice in the death of Americans at the hands of cowards are also not innocents.
I will not apologize for my views. I was willing to die for my country in one war; my father, uncles, grandfathers and great-grandfathers before me defended their homeland; my son is now in the US Army.
I disagree vehemently with those of you who favor a peaceful response to what is in fact an act of war. Diplomacy is never an appropriate or effective response to atrocity.
CelestialBody
Starlet of India
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CB, You are a brilliant and right on woman, that I've admired for sometime, so I am not saying this againts you.....
But don't you mean "You are what scares me about American policy that has geared this sort of attack, by eminating this kind of arrogance, and thoughtlessness for over 60 fucking years." ???
Wait...... can it go back as far as the Natives? I wonder what some of the Tribal leaders are counceling right now..... Diplomacy, me thinks.
Just picking. Sorry.
But don't you mean "You are what scares me about American policy that has geared this sort of attack, by eminating this kind of arrogance, and thoughtlessness for over 60 fucking years." ???
Wait...... can it go back as far as the Natives? I wonder what some of the Tribal leaders are counceling right now..... Diplomacy, me thinks.
Just picking. Sorry.
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