World Trade Center-Plane Crash
- Thread starter TN_Vixen
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I'm back on the BB. I'm tired of sitting here alone watching TV. I hope you are all well. I hope all of you with loved ones out there have contacted them and they are ok. I can't contact anyone. I'm back to numbness.
Azwed
Invading Poland
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Just to clarify something
Bin Laden is actually a Saudi citizen. He is hiding in afganistan because his own country tried to hunt him down. He is supposebly very wealthy, not unusual for a native Saudi, and I don't doubt that he has the monetary resources to do this.
From a logistical and personel standpoint he may be slightly weaker. An attack like this did not cost a lot of actual real hard cash. Transportation to get the terrorists here would have been the largest single expense. I mean as far as we know they used no explosives just the planes themselves. That cuts out alot of the problems and expense of the opperation. Its alot easier to get a small group of armed people onto a plane then it is to get a bomb on there. I have heard some speculation that they may have put some bombs in the buildings themselves. That would make sense to me because as much energy as an airplane has it would have a hard time knocking down those towers.
He could probably come up with 20 or so dedicated people willing to die for this. That solves the personel problem and even if he could not there is always the possibility of getting assistance from another terrorist group.
As long as all the people you are using are clean and have no prior records you dont need fake documents. None of these people are ever coming back so let them real documents. There would probably be some attempt to hide their origins in order to protect the organization but not much. I do think that there are some people stilll in this country that helped organize this. There had to be people on the ground to assist the suicide bombers. They may still be in the country since all borders are closed and all flights are down. They might have tried to get out before the attacks came, but maybe for some reason they did not. If they are still here they must be found since they are the only living link to the terrorists.
Granted this is all speculation, but I do belive Bin Laden had or could get access to the resources to do this attack.
Bin Laden is actually a Saudi citizen. He is hiding in afganistan because his own country tried to hunt him down. He is supposebly very wealthy, not unusual for a native Saudi, and I don't doubt that he has the monetary resources to do this.
From a logistical and personel standpoint he may be slightly weaker. An attack like this did not cost a lot of actual real hard cash. Transportation to get the terrorists here would have been the largest single expense. I mean as far as we know they used no explosives just the planes themselves. That cuts out alot of the problems and expense of the opperation. Its alot easier to get a small group of armed people onto a plane then it is to get a bomb on there. I have heard some speculation that they may have put some bombs in the buildings themselves. That would make sense to me because as much energy as an airplane has it would have a hard time knocking down those towers.
He could probably come up with 20 or so dedicated people willing to die for this. That solves the personel problem and even if he could not there is always the possibility of getting assistance from another terrorist group.
As long as all the people you are using are clean and have no prior records you dont need fake documents. None of these people are ever coming back so let them real documents. There would probably be some attempt to hide their origins in order to protect the organization but not much. I do think that there are some people stilll in this country that helped organize this. There had to be people on the ground to assist the suicide bombers. They may still be in the country since all borders are closed and all flights are down. They might have tried to get out before the attacks came, but maybe for some reason they did not. If they are still here they must be found since they are the only living link to the terrorists.
Granted this is all speculation, but I do belive Bin Laden had or could get access to the resources to do this attack.
Anubis1947
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CelestialBody said:
CelestialBody
Starlet of India
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Dillinger
Guerrilla Ontologist
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Federal Emergency Response Plan implemented (actually right after the first attack)... American Forces and Embassies around the world on High Alert... Pres, Vice President, Speaker of House, Cabinet, Sr. Staff secured...
Cheney and National Security Advisor in secure facility...
Bush is meeting with National Security Council...
FAA is directed to suspend operations till at least noon tomorrow - no flights before then... maybe even longer...
All vessels in US water under strict compliance...
Financial Markets closed - but banks open... Fed Reserve open...
Dept Health Human Services providing support to local authorities...
Bush committed full resources of intelligence and law enforcement communities to find who did this and bring them to justice...
Cheney and National Security Advisor in secure facility...
Bush is meeting with National Security Council...
FAA is directed to suspend operations till at least noon tomorrow - no flights before then... maybe even longer...
All vessels in US water under strict compliance...
Financial Markets closed - but banks open... Fed Reserve open...
Dept Health Human Services providing support to local authorities...
Bush committed full resources of intelligence and law enforcement communities to find who did this and bring them to justice...
Anubis1947
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CelestialBody said:
And for the entire time that this nation has existed, we sons and daughters of Middle America have laid down our lives to protect your right to ridicule us. We are no different today.
M
miles
Guest
Anubis
"It is absolutely imperative that every person who was in any way associated with these attacks dies a horrible and quite painful death"
Avenging the death of innocent people is one thing. But to punish the terrorists the way you describe makes you no better than they are. It accomplishes nothing.
"It is absolutely imperative that every person who was in any way associated with these attacks dies a horrible and quite painful death"
Avenging the death of innocent people is one thing. But to punish the terrorists the way you describe makes you no better than they are. It accomplishes nothing.
Shy Tall Guy
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Somehow I don't think anybody is going to forget this anytime soon.Anubis1947 said:
In any way associated? Innocently associated - such as the victims? I know what you are trying to say, but right now is not the time to be making such statements. Pick up the pieces first, then later we can bring the persons associated to justice. Somehow I am glad that people who make such rash statements are not in charge.
Innocent of what? Of a capital crime? Since when do we advocate executing people for their views, popular or not?
Thank you for your service, and your family for their service, but many of us here can claim the same and more (I have had personal friends die in service to my country) - but don't besmirch their service by proposing rash actions that go against what that service stands for.
Who is proposing a peaceful response? We are proposing a reasoned and measured response.
STG
Anubis1947
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Innocent of what? Of a capital crime? Since when do we advocate executing people for their views, popular or not?
My point is that it is foolish to worry about collateral damage to your enemy. I assure you beyond any doubt that your enemy could care less how many non-combatants he kills to achieve his goals. Iraq built chemical weapons factories next to schools and hospitals because Sadam thought we lacked the resolve to hit them there.
Thank you for your service, and your family for their service, but many of us here can claim the same and more (I have had personal friends die in service to my country) - but don't besmirch their service by proposing rash actions that go against what that service stands for.
I notice you don't include yourself among those who served. I don't know what you think the U.S. military stands for. I do know that the mission of the US Military is to protect this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Who is proposing a peaceful response? We are proposing a reasoned and measured response.
As do I. Everything we do should be reasoned and measured. In this case the perpetrators must pay full measure.
My point is that it is foolish to worry about collateral damage to your enemy. I assure you beyond any doubt that your enemy could care less how many non-combatants he kills to achieve his goals. Iraq built chemical weapons factories next to schools and hospitals because Sadam thought we lacked the resolve to hit them there.
Thank you for your service, and your family for their service, but many of us here can claim the same and more (I have had personal friends die in service to my country) - but don't besmirch their service by proposing rash actions that go against what that service stands for.
I notice you don't include yourself among those who served. I don't know what you think the U.S. military stands for. I do know that the mission of the US Military is to protect this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Who is proposing a peaceful response? We are proposing a reasoned and measured response.
As do I. Everything we do should be reasoned and measured. In this case the perpetrators must pay full measure.
Azwed
Invading Poland
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What Anubis1947 is proposing is too damn close to genocide for me. Yes you need to get this people and eradicate them, but you have to make sure it is the right people. Its like the people that go hunting down all the sharks cause one of them attacked someone. They would kill them all even the ones that are harmless to humans. We are supposed to be better then them, if we do things like that we are no different then them.
G
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Dillinger said:
I'm not able to donate blood, but, I have offered my services to the crisis centers in the area ( I interned/worked for a crisis center for some time). I don't know what else to do.
captainb
Driving You Mad
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After someone noted it on here, I called the Red Cross and found where there was a local drive going on. It was quiet there (about noon), but the nurse said it might pick up after people get off work. They said there is no current shortage of blood, but that there will be increased blood drives in the next few days.
By the way, just because someone has not served in the armed forces is a meaningless indicator of their support for them. My father was an Air Force pilot, and while I was fortunate to go through my late teens and twenties during a relatively peaceful time, don't mistake that as not supporting or understanding the importance and necessity of a ready military.
By the way, just because someone has not served in the armed forces is a meaningless indicator of their support for them. My father was an Air Force pilot, and while I was fortunate to go through my late teens and twenties during a relatively peaceful time, don't mistake that as not supporting or understanding the importance and necessity of a ready military.
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Valdimer
Half of Something
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Have been watching this all morning at Psycho_64's house, and am now at the frat house, listening to it on the radio.
It feels kinda like a movie you know? This is the type of stuff you only read about.....its not supposed to happen.
* Hangs head low*
It feels kinda like a movie you know? This is the type of stuff you only read about.....its not supposed to happen.
* Hangs head low*
Shy Tall Guy
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FOOLISH!?In all of our military actions we have always been concerned about, and tried as much as possible to reduce collateral damage. Yes we have had some huge losses in that regard, Germany, Japan, etc., but that doesn't mean we weren't concerned and we just said "kill them all and let God sort them out".Anubis1947 said:
So we should lower ourselves to their level? Our enemies have no morals, so we shouldn't either? That is a fucked way of looking that the world!
I served in the military, 4 years active and two years reserve. And I served when I didn't have to and when others weren't - just how do you think I knew the people who died (and others who were injured)? (RIP Steven).
After my service I then worked in the defense industry for a number of years so your ass could be secure.
My family has served in the military since we landed on these shores during the Revolution. My ancestors served to defend its ideals since then, including one that lived on rats in Andersonville for 6 months.
The oath I took when I enlisted was to obey lawful orders and to defend the Constitution. I still have the picture of myself taking that oath - proudly displayed in my photo album along with photos of my service and my family. That Constitution contains portions that recognize and enumerate our Natural Rights, and outline some of what we as a nation stand for. I am not going to allow anybody to willy nilly shit on those ideals just because they are pissed enough to or because it seems like the right thing to say at the time.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I do not like it when someone advocates adopting tactics that go against all that we have fought and died for. If we do so then we are no better than our enemies - only more powerful. Might does not make right. We have gotten this far by being an example to the rest of the world - if we don't live up to that standard then we are exactly what our enemies claim us to be and we will eventually fall.
STG
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Natalie Nessus
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I work in the tallest building in Pittsburgh, the USX Tower, 38th floor. The building managers ordered us out at 10:30. My mother happens to work on the same floor, so I waited for her so we could go down together. There was no rush, no one was panicking.
Then we heard that a plane went down in Somerset County. Unbelievably, the plane crashed in Indian Lake, where my buddy's family has a house and where I've spent many a weekend wakeboarding and drinking beer. It is inconcievable that such an idyllic spot could be the scene of such a horror.
I went over to my mother and said, "We're leaving." She wanted to wait for her boss to dismiss them, and I said, "Bull-shit. We go NOW!" Walked down 38 flights. I was pretty goddam scared.
I got home and saw the news, saw the plane crash in Somerset. Then it hit me. Indian Lake is 80 miles from Pittsburgh. The plane crashed at 10:10. At 450 MPH it could have been over Pittsburgh in fifteen minutes. 10:25. Now, there's no evidence that my building was the target (seems like it was headed for D.C.), but the USX Tower is the largest building between New York and Chicago, and had it been the target, we would have been putzing around, waiting to leave when it hit. I'm very, very happy to be home right now.
I pray for the people who died today. I pray for the people who will bring those who committed these acts to justice. I pray for our country.
Then we heard that a plane went down in Somerset County. Unbelievably, the plane crashed in Indian Lake, where my buddy's family has a house and where I've spent many a weekend wakeboarding and drinking beer. It is inconcievable that such an idyllic spot could be the scene of such a horror.
I went over to my mother and said, "We're leaving." She wanted to wait for her boss to dismiss them, and I said, "Bull-shit. We go NOW!" Walked down 38 flights. I was pretty goddam scared.
I got home and saw the news, saw the plane crash in Somerset. Then it hit me. Indian Lake is 80 miles from Pittsburgh. The plane crashed at 10:10. At 450 MPH it could have been over Pittsburgh in fifteen minutes. 10:25. Now, there's no evidence that my building was the target (seems like it was headed for D.C.), but the USX Tower is the largest building between New York and Chicago, and had it been the target, we would have been putzing around, waiting to leave when it hit. I'm very, very happy to be home right now.
I pray for the people who died today. I pray for the people who will bring those who committed these acts to justice. I pray for our country.
Gilly Bean
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Here is CNN.com's complete chronology of eveerything that has been confirmed today.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/index.html
shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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I hope that includes -
If our hands were clean, this would surely be a simple process. But they are not. It's a dirty world, and we run it as much as anyone does.
This should include many of Bush's associates, who backed the Contras in Central America, or who set off a car bomb that killed 70 peop[le in Lebanon (trying to assassinate an friendly mullah in the early 1980s), or the British officials who contrived to murder various folks Northern Ireland, or Henry Kissinger, who helped plot the murder of the Chilean military chief of staff before Pinochet's takeover, etc. etc.Anubis1947 said:
If our hands were clean, this would surely be a simple process. But they are not. It's a dirty world, and we run it as much as anyone does.
