Your "AHA!" moments...

[Netzach]

Another epiphany, with unknown origin. If you wait around feeling all deprived because life never dealt you a near-death experience from which to grow wise, you may have but a few seconds to benefit from the only near-death experience you'll ever get.

Anxiety attacks are great for this. If you just *think* you're surely dying, you get all the flavor and none of the calories.

 

[midwestyankee]

Smart arse.

I was actually being entirely serious. I have found myself wishing for some trauma to kick me in the ass to give me more motivation.

Anxiety attacks are great for this. If you just *think* you're surely dying, you get all the flavor and none of the calories.

Wonderful. And I hate Miller Light, too. Figures.

 

[graceanne]

Yep, it's like that. And it's usually misunderstood by both mental health professionals and by the general public. And it blows.

You mean you're not just shy?

Who would have figured that?

 

[BiBunny]

You mean you're not just shy?

Who would have figured that?

I know, right?

 

[graceanne]

I know, right?

I can't say that I understand social anxiety. My mother always referred to my sisters and I as ice breakers with feet. But I know enough people who social anxiety that I know it's a real issue and not just a matter of being shy.

 

[nh23]

I'll try to explain this for you Kerion the best I can.

Most people who have social anxiety appear painfully shy. I don't really fit that mold. I don't know anyone who would describe me as shy. I can hold my own in a conversation. I'm not afraid to voice my opinion. I CAN talk to people, mostly though because I force myself to. I can, but I don't really want to.

Like I posted in the thread about my daughter's teacher, I grew up as a poor smart girl, and I explained how that isolated me. I suppose I just got used to the isolation and now it's what I prefer. I posted some more about my past here to Netz, it may be helpful. http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=31256701&postcount=43

I would rather be isolated than conform to what people think I should be. I'm not a good actress. I'm me all the time. I'm kinky, and I have a Master, and I have weird ideas about the world. I don't have the social skills to pretend and fit in as a "normal" person. Nor do I want to. I'm better off with a few people who know me well, and accept how I am.

I'll give you some examples to see if they help.

I don't like crowds. I especially don't like it if someone I don't know touches me. I'm a big metal/hard rock fan. Three summers ago, I went to my first concert. It took me two valium and a bottle of Jack to get through it. My anxiety level was through the roof.

Last year at our county fair they were having some kind of show. Master and I arrived late, so in order to get to a seat we had to walk through and touch *shudders* a lot of people. I said lets just not watch. Master had to order me to step in there before I would. We ended up at our seats with me in tears. I just couldn't handle it.

It's not just crowds though. It's mostly anyone I don't know. Like if someone random starts talking to me in the store. I'll talk back, but I don't want to. I want to say "I don't know you, why are you talking to me? Leave me alone, and for god's sake don't touch me."

Social events are hard for me. Going to the store is hard. Starting a new job...I vomit everyday for weeks, until I get to know the people I'm working with. It's why I've stuck mostly to peds and psych. I do better with kids and the mentally ill. Probably because they are content to leave me alone and don't ask a million questions that I don't want to answer. I don't like people in my emotional space or physical space. In life I'm a very private person. I have anxiety over people knowing things about me. I can't really explain that any better. It's easier to talk about things on here of course.

I surround myself with people who are ok with how I am. Any good friend of mine knows that I may talk to you every day for a month, and then just not answer the phone for two. I need the isolation. I love Bunny dearly, and one thing that helps our friendship is she doesn't hate me, or get upset if I go months without talking. My friend Whit understands the same. Not many people do though. So I keep a handful of friends, and that's all I need. I never wanted to be the popular girl. I was always horrified at all the people surrounding her.

I don't let the anxiety stop me from doing the things I need to do, although sometimes I stay home instead of doing things I could do. I still go to the store, I still take my kids to events, movies, parks. It's just not easy.

Does this help you to understand why people staring would make it ever more difficult?

Oh, and what do I owe you and Netz for therapy bills?

ETA and yeah people think we are rude a lot. Sometimes it's just anxiety like Bunny said. Sometimes I think I'm just passionate about my opinions. It was explained to me once that I don't have any tact.

 

[nh23]

I assume nh means social anxiety disorder (and not just shyness, but feel free to correct me, nh!). Here's some info: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/social-anxiety-disorder/DS00595

I have a close friend who suffers from social anxiety, and many social interactions are difficult. He's better one on one. Large groups kind of freak him out. It's something he's worked on, and is now much better, but the way he looks at social interaction and the way I (an extrovert) look at social interaction are completely different.

Yep, just what I was talking about.

No worries. Go be a nurse and remember the only reason people are staring at you is because they love nurses.

 

[MisterSir]

Maybe we bottle it all up during our shy times, then when we get relaxed with people, it all comes bubbling out?

Not wanting to sound like a typical student, but drinking helps. You don't have to be dancing-on-the-table-drunk, but one or two (...and maybe three and four) turns me into something approaching the life of the party.

 

[Cattypuss]

Sir W, I think that's because people with social anxiety or shyness tend to be observers and genuine listeners. And to feel inhibited from speaking when with people who tend to be "look at me" and talkers. The former are interested in other people more than the latter are.

Put two listeners and observers together, and they will have a courteous, genuinely two-way conversation that is mutually interesting.

Edited to add - age seems to help. I'm a lot less socially anxious in my 40s than I was in my teens, 20s or 30s.

 

[Homburg]

Ooh, thank you, Sir W.

Oddly enough, when I met you, I hardly had a problem talking at all. You *claim* to be a grouchy old man, but I thought you were easy to talk to!

Both you and nh23 were just as friendly and sociable with me when we met as I could ask. And you were kind of wound tight overall, as the environment was beyond what you usually handle, yet you really were just friendly and cheerful and all those things you usually tell people you aren't.

Not calling you on this, just pointing out that the potential is there.

And I was instantly comfortable with nh23. Hanging out with her was like hanging out with someone I'd known for years.

--

Seems I always get along best with people who identify as being kind of shy, too. Then, we all end up babbling all night. Strange, huh?

This may seem odd, but I have my own social anxiety issues. I don't know that I'm shy, but I used to be, and had to make myself get over it. I realised early on that being a shy, and moving around a lot, was going to lead to a childhood without friends. So I made myself talk to the other kids in the neighbourhood. It didn't specifically turn me into an extrovert though. It just sort of extended my comfort zone.

Looking more closely at it, I think it is a matter of being sensitive to social energy. Some people are open, some are closed. If I feel like a person is open, I don't mind talking to them. If they are closed up, I generally won't initiate conversation.

And there is sort of a schizoid thing going on. When I am in my usual mindset, I can be very quiet, observant, etc. When I go into "performance mode", for lack of a better term, that is right out the window, and I'll talk to anyone. Examples being when I've given demos, put on public scenes where I was trying to explain something along with the scene, or just getting engaged into banter on a topic I enjoy. In those moments, I am a gregarious as any extrovert.

--

Not wanting to sound like a typical student, but drinking helps. You don't have to be dancing-on-the-table-drunk, but one or two (...and maybe three and four) turns me into something approaching the life of the party.

Alcohol turns me into the Party Vegetable. I am the uber control freak when it comes to my physical self, and REFUSE to allow the alcohol to have any visible effect. I can't tell you how many times I've been shit-faced and had people utterly unaware that I was inebriated. I walk straight, talk straight, and am In. Perfect. Control.

It is mentally demanding and utterly exhausting, so I have no chance to enjoy anything going on around me. In short, alcohol ruins experiences for me.

--

Sir W, I think that's because people with social anxiety or shyness tend to be observers and genuine listeners. And to feel inhibited from speaking when with people who tend to be "look at me" and talkers. The former are interested in other people more than the latter are.

Put two listeners and observers together, and they will have a courteous, genuinely two-way conversation that is mutually interesting.

Edited to add - age seems to help. I'm a lot less socially anxious in my 40s than I was in my teens, 20s or 30s.

Interesting concept. I've said many times that I do well socially because I am comfortable with myself. I don't have to parse each word I say to make sure that I don't make a mistake because I trust my own mouth. It means that I can give all of my attention to the person I'm talking to. Can't do that when you are self-absorbed.

 

[Cattypuss]

Interesting concept. I've said many times that I do well socially because I am comfortable with myself. I don't have to parse each word I say to make sure that I don't make a mistake because I trust my own mouth. It means that I can give all of my attention to the person I'm talking to. Can't do that when you are self-absorbed.

I could be a picky bitch and point out that you said "talking to" and not "talking with", but I.... oh hang on, too late

Yeah, the shy and the socially anxious are self-absorbed in an "Oh god, what if they aren't interested in what I have to say?" way and the talkers are self-absorbed in a "Hell, of course they're interested in what I have to say" way. Too much social sensitivity on the one hand; too little on the other. The more social sensitivity, the greater the interest in others, though.

 

[HisSexyPet]

Sir W, I think that's because people with social anxiety or shyness tend to be observers and genuine listeners. And to feel inhibited from speaking when with people who tend to be "look at me" and talkers. The former are interested in other people more than the latter are.

Put two listeners and observers together, and they will have a courteous, genuinely two-way conversation that is mutually interesting.

Edited to add - age seems to help. I'm a lot less socially anxious in my 40s than I was in my teens, 20s or 30s.

This description fits me to a T. And alcohol definately loosens up the social anxiety with me. 6 margaritas and I actually start dancing in the street.

 

[Homburg]

I could be a picky bitch and point out that you said "talking to" and not "talking with", but I.... oh hang on, too late

The problem with being a picky bitch is that it often obscures the rest of what you might be trying to say.

 

[Netzach]

Both you and nh23 were just as friendly and sociable with me when we met as I could ask. And you were kind of wound tight overall, as the environment was beyond what you usually handle, yet you really were just friendly and cheerful and all those things you usually tell people you aren't.

Not calling you on this, just pointing out that the potential is there.

And I was instantly comfortable with nh23. Hanging out with her was like hanging out with someone I'd known for years.

--




This may seem odd, but I have my own social anxiety issues. I don't know that I'm shy, but I used to be, and had to make myself get over it. I realised early on that being a shy, and moving around a lot, was going to lead to a childhood without friends. So I made myself talk to the other kids in the neighbourhood. It didn't specifically turn me into an extrovert though. It just sort of extended my comfort zone.

Looking more closely at it, I think it is a matter of being sensitive to social energy. Some people are open, some are closed. If I feel like a person is open, I don't mind talking to them. If they are closed up, I generally won't initiate conversation.

And there is sort of a schizoid thing going on. When I am in my usual mindset, I can be very quiet, observant, etc. When I go into "performance mode", for lack of a better term, that is right out the window, and I'll talk to anyone. Examples being when I've given demos, put on public scenes where I was trying to explain something along with the scene, or just getting engaged into banter on a topic I enjoy. In those moments, I am a gregarious as any extrovert.

--



Alcohol turns me into the Party Vegetable. I am the uber control freak when it comes to my physical self, and REFUSE to allow the alcohol to have any visible effect. I can't tell you how many times I've been shit-faced and had people utterly unaware that I was inebriated. I walk straight, talk straight, and am In. Perfect. Control.

It is mentally demanding and utterly exhausting, so I have no chance to enjoy anything going on around me. In short, alcohol ruins experiences for me.

--



Interesting concept. I've said many times that I do well socially because I am comfortable with myself. I don't have to parse each word I say to make sure that I don't make a mistake because I trust my own mouth. It means that I can give all of my attention to the person I'm talking to. Can't do that when you are self-absorbed.

I don't have social anxiety to my knowledge, but I only have marginally more small talk skills than Richard Nixon. My brain just doesn't work well that way.

I think I'm assumed to be this horrible bitch a lot of the time until people get to know me, because not having this skill of shooting the shit and putting people at ease is a liability.

I'd rather speak in public on a set topic I know about for an hour than meet someone without a friend giving me the context of an introduction and have to talk to them.

 

[Homburg]

I don't have social anxiety to my knowledge, but I only have marginally more small talk skills than Richard Nixon. My brain just doesn't work well that way.

I think I'm assumed to be this horrible bitch a lot of the time until people get to know me, because not having this skill of shooting the shit and putting people at ease is a liability.

I'd rather speak in public on a set topic I know about for an hour than meet someone without a friend giving me the context of an introduction and have to talk to them.

Now, I find small talk to be exceedingly dull, but I have no problem making conversation. I can usually find some way to steer the talk into something that interests the person, and thus gets them opening up.

Again, this is probably due to many, many hours spent doing investigative interviewing, and not always under "...this conversation is being recorded..." situations.

The above idea, on getting someone to talk about something they're interested in, is congruent to advice I've given people on how to make conversation. "The best way to be interesting, is to be interested." I can't tell you how many times I've been told that I was an interesting person when all I did was listen to the other person in an interested fashion.

Is it just me, or is the idea that "Conversation" is a skill just something that people don't get?

 

[graceanne]

I could be a picky bitch and point out that you said "talking to" and not "talking with", but I.... oh hang on, too late

Yeah, the shy and the socially anxious are self-absorbed in an "Oh god, what if they aren't interested in what I have to say?" way and the talkers are self-absorbed in a "Hell, of course they're interested in what I have to say" way. Too much social sensitivity on the one hand; too little on the other. The more social sensitivity, the greater the interest in others, though.

Wow, that's one heck of a generalization.

I'm a chatter box, but I've also been told I'm a great listener. Why? Because I know when to shut up and just listen. Talking to people is, quite often, the only way I have to put them at ease. There are people in between the shy person who's 'anxious and self absorbed' and the talker who's 'self absorbed'.

 

[Betticus]

Wow, that's one heck of a generalization.

I'm a chatter box, but I've also been told I'm a great listener. Why? Because I know when to shut up and just listen. Talking to people is, quite often, the only way I have to put them at ease. There are people in between the shy person who's 'anxious and self absorbed' and the talker who's 'self absorbed'.

You have to be on the phone with gracie when the kids are acting up and she cracks the ol whip on em....

 

[Betticus]

I was actually being entirely serious. I have found myself wishing for some trauma to kick me in the ass to give me more motivation.



Wonderful. And I hate Miller Light, too. Figures.

It's what it took to get me to cold turkey quit the drinking of alcohol. Now how the hell do I stop this chronic masturbation problem????

 

[graceanne]

You have to be on the phone with gracie when the kids are acting up and she cracks the ol whip on em....

What is it with being on the phone that causes them to instantly erupt in a fist fight? grr

 

[Betticus]

What is it with being on the phone that causes them to instantly erupt in a fist fight? grr

They must sense the sheer damn domliness coming over the phone and it makes em react with animal instincts.

 

[graceanne]

They must sense the sheer damn domliness coming over the phone and it makes em react with animal instincts.

They do it anytime I get on the phone. It's not just you.

 

[Keroin]

1. What a great thought, and something that I'll keep in the back of my mind if I ever again have the opportunity to host a group of folks that may not know one another! Kudos!

2. Start all the threads you want, kiddo. Have you noticed that many of the ones you start are the ones that get a lot of responses, even if some of them somehow go off on tangents? You seem to have somewhat of a talent for asking questions/making observations that develop some good interaction and generate thought. Isn't that what we're here for? :blink:

Thanks SW.

I love hosting any kind of event and I've done so on many occasions. Basically, I've learned through trial and error, as well as noting what kinds of things I've enjoyed at other social functions. You don't need a lot of money to hold a successful soiree, you do need a practical understanding of group psychology. Getting friends together is easy, putting together a group of people who don't know one another not so much.

My best event was a wedding I planned. I sat down and thought about every wedding I'd been to, what I loved and hated. Bride and Groom were very close to me and very open minded.

1. Keep guest list small. 40 people, close friends and family.

2. Hold it at a location close enough that everyone can make it but far enough away that they can't easily leave and have to have accommodations for the night. (Budget accomm)

3. Get everyone involved in some way and encourage spontaneity. (The crafty friend made table decorations, the chef friends did the cooking, the music friend chose the tunes, etc). Give ownership of the wedding to the guests.

4. Keep ceremony short and fun.

5. Have things to do for guests after dinner and speeches. (I bought a bunch of doo-dads from dollar stores - pirate hats, funny glasses, glow in the dark necklaces, fake handcuffs, etc - and these were a HUGE hit).

6. Keep dress code casual. (Jeans, Hawaiian shirts, fleece, whatever)

This wedding was so much fun. Everyone partied until 5am. Coup de grace, however, was the vows. The entire group was gathered together three hours before the ceremony, (took place at a lake). Boys sent to one side of the room, girls sent to the other and this is what the bride told them, "Since you all know us as well as we know ourselves, we've decided to let you write our vows." Boys wrote the bride's vows, girls wrote the grooms. They didn't get to see them until the JP handed them to them.

Of all the events I've hosted, that's the one I'm most proud of.

Hm, got off on a ramble, didn't I?

 

[Keroin]

I'll try to explain this for you Kerion the best I can.

Most people who have social anxiety appear painfully shy. I don't really fit that mold. I don't know anyone who would describe me as shy. I can hold my own in a conversation. I'm not afraid to voice my opinion. I CAN talk to people, mostly though because I force myself to. I can, but I don't really want to.

Like I posted in the thread about my daughter's teacher, I grew up as a poor smart girl, and I explained how that isolated me. I suppose I just got used to the isolation and now it's what I prefer. I posted some more about my past here to Netz, it may be helpful. http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=31256701&postcount=43

I would rather be isolated than conform to what people think I should be. I'm not a good actress. I'm me all the time. I'm kinky, and I have a Master, and I have weird ideas about the world. I don't have the social skills to pretend and fit in as a "normal" person. Nor do I want to. I'm better off with a few people who know me well, and accept how I am.

I'll give you some examples to see if they help.

I don't like crowds. I especially don't like it if someone I don't know touches me. I'm a big metal/hard rock fan. Three summers ago, I went to my first concert. It took me two valium and a bottle of Jack to get through it. My anxiety level was through the roof.

Last year at our county fair they were having some kind of show. Master and I arrived late, so in order to get to a seat we had to walk through and touch *shudders* a lot of people. I said lets just not watch. Master had to order me to step in there before I would. We ended up at our seats with me in tears. I just couldn't handle it.

It's not just crowds though. It's mostly anyone I don't know. Like if someone random starts talking to me in the store. I'll talk back, but I don't want to. I want to say "I don't know you, why are you talking to me? Leave me alone, and for god's sake don't touch me."

Social events are hard for me. Going to the store is hard. Starting a new job...I vomit everyday for weeks, until I get to know the people I'm working with. It's why I've stuck mostly to peds and psych. I do better with kids and the mentally ill. Probably because they are content to leave me alone and don't ask a million questions that I don't want to answer. I don't like people in my emotional space or physical space. In life I'm a very private person. I have anxiety over people knowing things about me. I can't really explain that any better. It's easier to talk about things on here of course.

I surround myself with people who are ok with how I am. Any good friend of mine knows that I may talk to you every day for a month, and then just not answer the phone for two. I need the isolation. I love Bunny dearly, and one thing that helps our friendship is she doesn't hate me, or get upset if I go months without talking. My friend Whit understands the same. Not many people do though. So I keep a handful of friends, and that's all I need. I never wanted to be the popular girl. I was always horrified at all the people surrounding her.

I don't let the anxiety stop me from doing the things I need to do, although sometimes I stay home instead of doing things I could do. I still go to the store, I still take my kids to events, movies, parks. It's just not easy.

Does this help you to understand why people staring would make it ever more difficult?

Oh, and what do I owe you and Netz for therapy bills?

ETA and yeah people think we are rude a lot. Sometimes it's just anxiety like Bunny said. Sometimes I think I'm just passionate about my opinions. It was explained to me once that I don't have any tact.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, NH.

You and BB have some curious qualities, as relating to social anxiety. The parts in bold I find particularly interesting. What is your usual process for getting to know someone? I ask this because at some point the people you know are strangers. They have to talk to you and learn things about you to become friends. Are there some situations wherein you find it easier to talk with strangers?

I found it kind of funny that you said you liked working with kids because they don't ask a million questions - I thought that was kids' typical MO? LOL.

I'm with you with disliking crowds for the reason that I am mildly claustrophobic. It's not debilitating for me but I don't like it and I definitely try to avoid those environments. (I'm referring to large crowds). I don't care about strangers touching me, that's not a problem at all, I just don't like feeling penned in. (I'm wondering if this is a coastal thing? People I've met who grew up on the ocean seem to share this quality.)

I'll ask the same question I did of BB. Have you had any therapy or are you on any meds for this. I know you don't have insurance, so I'm guessing not. But do you think it would help?

 

[nh23]

Both you and nh23 were just as friendly and sociable with me when we met as I could ask. And you were kind of wound tight overall, as the environment was beyond what you usually handle, yet you really were just friendly and cheerful and all those things you usually tell people you aren't.

Not calling you on this, just pointing out that the potential is there.

And I was instantly comfortable with nh23. Hanging out with her was like hanging out with someone I'd known for years.

I got to know you some online before I met you. That helped a ton. I also was just at ease there with you and viv and the kids. That doesn't happen often, but it was the same for me. It was like I had known you guys forever.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, NH.

You and BB have some curious qualities, as relating to social anxiety. The parts in bold I find particularly interesting. What is your usual process for getting to know someone? I ask this because at some point the people you know are strangers. They have to talk to you and learn things about you to become friends. Are there some situations wherein you find it easier to talk with strangers?

I met Bunny on here. It took us about a hundred yahoo chats before either of us opened up and actually talked. At the time we met we were both going through a very similar tragic event. That helped a lot. Other people..it just takes a lot of time. I knew my friend Whit for almost five years before I actually started telling her things about me. Everyone on this board knows I was sexually abused as a child. In r/l I didn't even tell my ex hubby of 12 years, until we had been together for 9 years.

I'm weird, I don't know how to explain things well. There is a woman I work with that I've gotten semi close to. One day we had a really long conversation about our lives, our pasts etc. That night at home I started feeling really uncomfortable about the conversation I had with her. I started to avoid her. It really bothered me that she knew things about me. It bothered me that I told her. I know that doesn't make sense, it's just how it is.

I found it kind of funny that you said you liked working with kids because they don't ask a million questions - I thought that was kids' typical MO? LOL.

The kids I work with don't talk. A few sign, but none of them talk. I work with special needs kids. Rare genetic disorders, developmental delays etc. Now typical kids yeah..LOL.

I'm with you with disliking crowds for the reason that I am mildly claustrophobic. It's not debilitating for me but I don't like it and I definitely try to avoid those environments. (I'm referring to large crowds). I don't care about strangers touching me, that's not a problem at all, I just don't like feeling penned in. (I'm wondering if this is a coastal thing? People I've met who grew up on the ocean seem to share this quality.)

Hmm maybe. I didn't grow up on the coast, but mine isn't really as much a claustrophobic thing.

I'll ask the same question I did of BB. Have you had any therapy or are you on any meds for this. I know you don't have insurance, so I'm guessing not. But do you think it would help?

I had insurance before I became a single parent. I didn't go then either. I have no desire to go tell some strange person things about me. I posted earlier in this thread about huge chunks of my life being gone. I wasn't being sarcastic, they are. It's a coping mechanism my brain uses. It's kind of a half assed thing. If I sit and really think I can remember details of the abuse in my past for example. But I have to make an effort. Other parts of my life are just gone.

I think my brain knows what it's doing and I have no desire to bring all that shit up again. Living thorough it once was enough.

My ob/gyn recently put me on Prozac and birth control pills for a hormonal imbalance I'm having. Maybe that'll help. At this point I'm still in the feeling like shit from them phase. So we'll see.

 

[Homburg]

I got to know you some online before I met you. That helped a ton. I also was just at ease there with you and viv and the kids. That doesn't happen often, but it was the same for me. It was like I had known you guys forever.

Yeah, the online talks did help a lot. Like I said, it is an exception, but still worthwhile to note that both viv and I were really comfortable with you, and you were perfectly sociable. Made me happy, because those sort of first time meetings in any setting can be really awkward.