“There is No Climate Emergency”

[icanhelp1]

It is about time that the US and the West, in general, recognised that China's exports damage us.

I’ve been trying to drive that point home right along. We need to act against China. Isolate China and India. Transition our manufacturing base to produce the renewable energy products we need in a socially responsible manner here at home. We also have to step up our own interest in rare minerals, compete with China in the Congo, try to fix our fuck-up in Afghanistan, co-op for mining rights which would work for both countries. Seriously plant billions of trees and research carbon capture and storage.

 

[Chobham]

The Chinese, unlike the USA., remained signed up to the Paris accord and are doing more to move away from polluting energy sources than anyone, including the US.

But they have much more to do than anyone.

Ogg, the Chinese will sign anything and then just as quickly ignore it.

On page 3 of this thread I posted the Chinese CO2 numbers for 2019 and 2020. In 2020 they emitted 18.3% more CO2 than they did in 2019. At the same time their economy only grew at a 2.3% rate 2020 over 2019. I don't care what they've signed or agreed to, they are going in exactly the wrong direction.

 

[oggbashan]

The Chinese know that their CO2 emissions are going in the wrong direction. The inertia in their system and their reliance on fossil fuels - particularly coal - is known.

A massive state like China cannot easily turn around.

 

[ll74]

It really just sounds like youre whining about the Chinese rather than advocating against action. The Chinese did commit to lofty goals and are finding out they can't meet them. Then again, the US committed to them and then openly said we won't meet them and then withdrew completely.

But yah...those Chinese.

Ogg, the Chinese will sign anything and then just as quickly ignore it.

On page 3 of this thread I posted the Chinese CO2 numbers for 2019 and 2020. In 2020 they emitted 18.3% more CO2 than they did in 2019. At the same time their economy only grew at a 2.3% rate 2020 over 2019. I don't care what they've signed or agreed to, they are going in exactly the wrong direction.

 

[oggbashan]

Og's Bulshit:

According to people researching my family tree I, and about 100,000 living others are legitimately descended from a Plantagenet King. That is possible. Those Kings had many children.

But the Plantagenet Kings claimed to be Wodingas - descended from the Norse God Woden (or Odin).

That is improbable but if it is true, I will ask my ancestor Woden to demonstrate to Rightguide just how wrong he is. I don't want Rightguide harmed so I will ask Woden to send a lightning bolt a day for a week to impact Rightguide's yard. Watch this space...

 

[Chobham]

It really just sounds like youre whining about the Chinese rather than advocating against action. The Chinese did commit to lofty goals and are finding out they can't meet them. Then again, the US committed to them and then openly said we won't meet them and then withdrew completely.

But yah...those Chinese.

If ALL industrialized nations aren't on board then the entire exercise is pointless.

It seems to me that you, among others, are making a case that the Western nations should reduce their carbon footprint to offset the Chinese increases. If you follow that plan to it's logical conclusion it will lead to total economic collapse of the West.

Ogg actually swerved into the solution. Decouple from the Chinese economy. Pull all possible manufacturing out of China as fast as possible. Fortunately many companies have already decided to do so for various reasons. From the Chinese "zero covid (Wuhan flu)" policies to accelerating inefficiencies based on CCP employment policies.

As for me? I will not take the "Greens" seriously until such time they make nuclear power a major pillar in their policy demands. Until that time they're just playing a game with the populace. They move the CO2 emission generators from one location to another. It's like letting your dog shit in your neighbors yard and then claiming that your dog doesn't shit anymore.

 

[icanhelp1]

The Chinese, unlike the USA., remained signed up to the Paris accord and are doing more to move away from polluting energy sources than anyone, including the US.

But they have much more to do than anyone.

Their pollution problems are more extensive than mere CO2 emissions. They have a serious problem with hard pollutants like sulfur dioxide, trioxide, nitrates, chlorofluorocarbons and pollution of their water resources ( rivers, lakes and coastal water ways)

 

[ll74]

If ALL industrialized nations aren't on board then the entire exercise is pointless.

It seems to me that you, among others, are making a case that the Western nations should reduce their carbon footprint to offset the Chinese increases. If you follow that plan to it's logical conclusion it will lead to total economic collapse of the West.

Ogg actually swerved into the solution. Decouple from the Chinese economy. Pull all possible manufacturing out of China as fast as possible. Fortunately many companies have already decided to do so for various reasons. From the Chinese "zero covid (Wuhan flu)" policies to accelerating inefficiencies based on CCP employment policies.

As for me? I will not take the "Greens" seriously until such time they make nuclear power a major pillar in their policy demands. Until that time they're just playing a game with the populace. They move the CO2 emission generators from one location to another. It's like letting your dog shit in your neighbors yard and then claiming that your dog doesn't shit anymore.

Yes, you continue to say that and continue to be incorrect. You just don't the US to do anything because you (incorrectly) believe the only way to accomplish a reduction is economic disaster.

Either we're leaders or we aren't.

But hey....you can decide to ignore it if it makes you feel better. Just as much as I decide not to ignore it.

 

[icanhelp1]

If ALL industrialized nations aren't on board then the entire exercise is pointless.

It seems to me that you, among others, are making a case that the Western nations should reduce their carbon footprint to offset the Chinese increases. If you follow that plan to it's logical conclusion it will lead to total economic collapse of the West.

Ogg actually swerved into the solution. Decouple from the Chinese economy. Pull all possible manufacturing out of China as fast as possible. Fortunately many companies have already decided to do so for various reasons. From the Chinese "zero covid (Wuhan flu)" policies to accelerating inefficiencies based on CCP employment policies.

As for me? I will not take the "Greens" seriously until such time they make nuclear power a major pillar in their policy demands. Until that time they're just playing a game with the populace. They move the CO2 emission generators from one location to another. It's like letting your dog shit in your neighbors yard and then claiming that your dog doesn't shit anymore.

I’ve made that point in several postings and was accused of treating the problem like a 9th grader.

 

[ll74]

I’ve made that point in several postings and was accused of treating the problem like a 9th grader.

9 yr old actually. Good reading comprehension.

"Jimmy doesn't have to clean his room!!!"

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK for the next decade, we are between a rock and a hard place.

A large proportion of our energy needs comes from natural gas and a significant amount of that is imported (but no longer from Russia!).

We are intending to build more nuclear but it takes a very long time. We have nothing (except a small hydro pumped storage plant in Wales) that can react as fast as gas or nuclear to a peak in demand.

We are going to need natural gas for years. We could frack for UK sources but the Greens oppose it.

Until more nuclear comes on stream we have to use natural gas.

We are expanding wind farms and solar but they cannot react fast and don't work when the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine.

We will get there but probably not in my lifetime.

 

[ll74]

China pledged to be carbon neutral by 2060.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/chinas-...argely-consistent-with-1-5c-goal-study-finds/

Peak emissions by 2030

https://www.reuters.com/business/co...-carbon-emission-peak-before-2030-2021-10-26/

What year is it at the moment?

 

[icanhelp1]

China pledged to be carbon neutral by 2060.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/chinas-...argely-consistent-with-1-5c-goal-study-finds/

Peak emissions by 2030

https://www.reuters.com/business/co...-carbon-emission-peak-before-2030-2021-10-26/

What year is it at the moment?

So between now and 2030 they could quadruple their CO2 emissions but they promised not to go higher in 2030 and you call me gullible LMFAO. We accomplished more outside the Paris agreement, we should not fund anything under the Paris agreement. We can shadow the agreement without spending one dime on a bloated bureaucratic Ponzi scheme.

 

[ll74]

So between now and 2030 they could quadruple their CO2 emissions but they promised not to go higher in 2030 and you call me gullible LMFAO. We accomplished more outside the Paris agreement, we should not fund anything under the Paris agreement. We can shadow the agreement without spending one dime on a bloated bureaucratic Ponzi scheme.

They could also drop nukes on Texas.

Either we're leaders or we're not.

 

[phrodeau]

Og's Bulshit:

According to people researching my family tree I, and about 100,000 living others are legitimately descended from a Plantagenet King. That is possible. Those Kings had many children.

But the Plantagenet Kings claimed to be Wodingas - descended from the Norse God Woden (or Odin).

That is improbable but if it is true, I will ask my ancestor Woden to demonstrate to Rightguide just how wrong he is. I don't want Rightguide harmed so I will ask Woden to send a lightning bolt a day for a week to impact Rightguide's yard. Watch this space...

Unfortunately, smite down a Rightguide, and a MarcvsAvrelivs will rise up to fill the idiot box.

 

[Rightguide]

Rightguide doesn't look at anything that challenges his irrational beliefs.

Because according to him 'accurate thermometers didn't exist' - he claims, no one measured sea temperatures.

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-history-of-the-thermometer-1992525

What can be considered the first modern thermometer, the mercury thermometer with a standardized scale, was invented by Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit in 1714.




Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit was the German physicist who invented the alcohol thermometer in 1709 and the mercury thermometer in 1714. In 1724, he introduced the standard temperature scale that bears his name—Fahrenheit scale—that was used to record changes in temperature in an accurate fashion.




The Fahrenheit scale divided the freezing and boiling points of water into 180 degrees; 32 degrees was the freezing point of water and 212 degrees was its boiling point. Zero degrees was based on the temperature of an equal mixture of water, ice, and salt. Fahrenheit based his temperature scale on the temperature of the human body. Originally, the human body temperature was 100 degrees on the Fahrenheit scale, but it has since been adjusted to 98.6 degrees.

That is more bullshit., but even if I believe him, which I don't, how does he explain the 800,000 years shown by the Wood's Hole study and sediment and ice cores taken all over the world?

He doesn't even look at the data. he daren't because it proves him VERY wrong.

That doesn't mean in 1714 they were in widespread use or accurate enough to use for surveying the world's oceans. I already told you your own Challenger Expedition was the "first" real survey of ocean temperatures. I produced the receipts as well. But it didn't take place 250 years ago, like you attempted to bullshit us into believing.

 

[phrodeau]

So between now and 2030 they could quadruple their CO2 emissions but they promised not to go higher in 2030 and you call me gullible LMFAO. We accomplished more outside the Paris agreement, we should not fund anything under the Paris agreement. We can shadow the agreement without spending one dime on a bloated bureaucratic Ponzi scheme.

We can? Not with fossil-fuel-supported, regulation-slashing, anti-science, stick-it-to-libs, watch-the-world-burn Republicans in charge of anything.

 

[oggbashan]

That doesn't mean in 1714 they were in widespread use or accurate enough to use for surveying the world's oceans. I already told you your own Challenger Expedition was the "first" real survey of ocean temperatures. I produced the receipts as well. But it didn't take place 250 years ago, like you attempted to bullshit us into believing.

Your statement about the Challenger expedition was a quote out of context and ignores the decades of work done long before that. I have disproved your 'inaccurate thermometers' already.

You just continue to lie no matter what evidence is presented.

Your case is 'They didn't use thermometers because I say they didn't'. Why should anyone believe that?

I gave you the sources - Navy logs and reports but you haven't tried to look for them because you are afraid they would show you are wrong. Asshole!

 

[icanhelp1]

We can? Not with fossil-fuel-supported, regulation-slashing, anti-science, stick-it-to-libs, watch-the-world-burn Republicans in charge of anything.

Not without nuclear

 

[icanhelp1]

They could also drop nukes on Texas.

Either we're leaders or we're not.

Ya want leadership start at home, start with our own border security.

 

[ll74]

Ya want leadership start at home, start with our own border security.

That doesn't even make any sense. You're literally just devolving into old man yelling at the lawn again.

 

[oggbashan]

I haven't said it before but I will now.

I, as me, not oggbashan, have been an FRGS (Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society) for decades. That gives me far more academic status than any of the 1,200 idiots in the OP.

I could make definite statements about climate and expect to be believed, unlike Rightguide.

I haven't and won't. that would be unprofessional. What I have said has been backed by links or suggested areas to explore to confirm what I have said - which Rightguide doesn't do.

History of temperature measurement at sea:

https://phys.org/news/2019-07-histo...measuring the temperature of the water inside.

 

[ll74]

I haven't said it before but I will now.

I, as me, not oggbashan, have been an FRGS (Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society) for decades. That gives me far more academic status than any of the 1,200 idiots in the OP.

I could make definite statements about climate and expect to be believed, unlike Rightguide.

I haven't and won't. that would be unprofessional. What I have said has been backed by links or suggested areas to explore to confirm what I have said - which Rightguide doesn't do.

History of temperature measurement at sea:

https://phys.org/news/2019-07-historic-sea-surface-temperature.html#:~:text=Sea surface temperatures helped sailors verify their course,,and measuring the temperature of the water inside.

There's quite a few scientists out there in climatology who agree with every statement you have made and continue to make. The independent business owner in Fairfax might not be the best source to corroborate said statements. I think that might be similar to what you are saying here.

 

[Sugar Baby Wanted]

I haven't said it before but I will now.

I, as me, not oggbashan, have been an FRGS (Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society) for decades. That gives me far more academic status than any of the 1,200 idiots in the OP.

I could make definite statements about climate and expect to be believed, unlike Rightguide.

I haven't and won't. that would be unprofessional. What I have said has been backed by links or suggested areas to explore to confirm what I have said - which Rightguide doesn't do.

History of temperature measurement at sea:

https://phys.org/news/2019-07-historic-sea-surface-temperature.html#:~:text=Sea surface temperatures helped sailors verify their course,,and measuring the temperature of the water inside.

How many years does climate need to have useful data?

Why did Obama discredit any study unless it supported global warming?

He cut off funding to NASA unless they found in favor of global warming.

The planet will take care of itself. The US is a corrupt entity that uses this bs to rip off taxpayers. Prove me wrong.

 

[ll74]

How many years does climate need to have useful data?

Why did Obama discredit any study unless it supported global warming?

He cut off funding to NASA unless they found in favor of global warming.

The planet will take care of itself. The US is a corrupt entity that uses this bs to rip off taxpayers. Prove me wrong.

None of that is correct.

Climate is long term weather patterns.