2009 Survivor Literotica: Planning & Plotting

[fieryjen]

If it's a stand alone story it shouldn't need any addition.

If you want to write more about the same characters in a separate stand alone story, that's allowed.

Yes, I can see that. Still not a fan but it makes sense.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

If the original story is self-contained, and simply spawns a continuation, then the solution is not to make it Chapter 02 of a longer story, but another self-contained story starring the same characters.

Sort of what I did with Steward of the Wood and Daughter of the Wood.

The solution is in the titling. Instead of the "Chapter One" followed by "Chapter Two" title, it would have to be, as Dark says here, a different but RELATED title, so readers would know their favorite characters are in this new story offering.

Of course, it would be a judgment call as to whether each story was complete in and of itself.

Before I started writing chapter stories for Survivor in 2006(??) I would have been as adamant as Starrkers. Chapter stories should be outlawed!

But after having the experience of writing them, I understand Jen's point. Writing chapters can be totally fun and spontaneous, and the continuing feedback can really lend fuel to the muse-fire!

I don't care which way you go - but if you start saying "No chapters... except..." (aside from Novels, of course, that's different) I think you're starting to make things way to complicated for writers and moderators.

 

[Boxlicker101]

If the original story is self-contained, and simply spawns a continuation, then the solution is not to make it Chapter 02 of a longer story, but another self-contained story starring the same characters.

Sort of what I did with Steward of the Wood and Daughter of the Wood. Both contain the same characters, adding new characters in Daughter. They occur in a timeline, but each has its own beginning, conflict, and ending. Same will go for the third story in the series, whenever I get around to writing it.

Makes it a little harder for readers to track down the stories in sequence, but if you want them to count for points under the new rule, that's what you'll have to do. You can always submit an edit to the first story, adding an end note to it mentioning the title of the upcoming story, to eliminate any difficulty in finding the new tale in the series.

( The post concerning the series listing feature going live mentioned that future plans included the ability to organize your own series listing, which would eliminate this problem if it comes to light )

My Nobles by Deed series is another good example. There's absolutely nothing tying them together in the titles, but they're all part of a larger storyline I'm slowly building. I'm dropping a timeline in the end-notes of the stories as I submit them now.

Which reminds me that I forgot to do so with the re-edit of Blackhawk Hall I submitted about an hour ago... Dammit...

Once you start making any allowances for anything with chapter listings, then it's going to cause confusion. That's exactly why I eliminated the "Ep. 09" from my LST3K in the Winter Holiday Contest. That's a series listing, but I didn't want anyone to use that as an excuse to complain about a chaptered story and try to bend the new rule for themed contests. In essence, I'm a character in that series, and the only thing tying them together.

I have a couple of series going, centered around a character, such as Cindy Lou of Alabama or Angel Jones, a T-girll, or around a pair, such as Marian and Ryan. I have numbered these stories as if they are chapters, although each one stands alone. I make references to incidents in previous stories, and don't feel the need to describe the characters anew or do what little character development I do after I have done it once.

 

[Darkniciad]

I have a couple of series going, centered around a character, such as Cindy Lou of Alabama or Angel Jones, a T-girll, or around a pair, such as Marian and Ryan. I have numbered these stories as if they are chapters, although each one stands alone. I make references to incidents in previous stories, and don't feel the need to describe the characters anew or do what little character development I do after I have done it once.

With the new rule, those would cause all sorts of strife. My Arts Ardane series is numbered as well, though with as much as 2 years between stories in the series, it's a stretch for anyone to call it a chaptered story.

Unfortunately, that stretch would happen if they were on a Survivor scorecard. I'd say that the moderators are going to have to disqualify anything that even remotely appears to be a chapter listing for the sake of sanity and expediency.

 

[starrkers]

Yep. If it's a series, give it a different name. If it is called a chapter, it is a chapter story and ineligible.
Indiana Jones has four stories. They are not chapters. Harry Potter has seven. They are epidsodes in his life, they are not chapters. It is like the difference between a TV series and a serial - one has separate, individual stories about the same characters, the other is a continuum.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Yep. If it's a series, give it a different name. If it is called a chapter, it is a chapter story and ineligible.
Indiana Jones has four stories. They are not chapters. Harry Potter has seven. They are epidsodes in his life, they are not chapters. It is like the difference between a TV series and a serial - one has separate, individual stories about the same characters, the other is a continuum.

I don't envy the mods next year!

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I don't envy the mods next year!

Well, that's the whole point of this discussion thread... to get things hammered out before 2009's contest starts.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Proposed New Rules:

1. Multi-chaptered stories will not be allowed. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. The only exceptions to this rule are:
   --- a) the Chain Stories category, for obvious reasons, but each author will only be allowed one chapter eligible for Survivor per chain;
   --- b) the Novels and Novellas category, where submissions can either be standalone stories with 7500 words or more, or chapters of a larger work, as long as each chapter has 7500 words or more.
   
   
2. There will be a 3-submission cap for all categories. If an author completes his/her scorecard with 3 submissions in each and every category, the cap for that author will be increased to 5. If he/she then reaches that cap in each and every category, the cap will again be raised to 6, then 7, then 8, and so on. This is only verified at the end of the year, as always, and as happens to all aspects of Survivor. The order in which stories are written is irrelevant. By the end of the year, the 4th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 3 submissions or 1 immunity on all categories. The 6th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 5 submissions or 2 immunities on all categories. The 7th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 6 submissions or 3 immunities on all categories.
   
   
3. Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that category to any further submissions and fill the 3-submission requirement. That immunity will be worth 3 points. If your cap is then raised to 5, you can only fill it in this category by using another immunity, which will be worth 1 point. If your cap is raised to 6, you will need another immunity; and so on, a new immunity for each cap level. A category can only have either regular submissions or immunities, and never both.
   
   
4. The bonus for having 10 submissions in one category no longer applies; the bonuses for having submissions/immunities in 10, in 20, in 30 and in all categories, remain as this year's edition.
   
   
5. In addition to the 35 regular categories, there will be a bonus category: Special Contests. Submissions in this heading must be valid entries accepted in a Literotica Special Contest. Only one entry per contest is eligible for points, and if it is counted under this heading, it cannot be counted under a regular category. There will be an extra bonus for entering all 6 special contests. Immunities cannot be used for this bonus category, neither does this category count towards the 10-, 20-, 30- and all-category bonuses.

There is a continuing discussion on point one about whether to allow entire completed series to count for one point even if they are split into chapters. We've heard the opinion of a few people. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I'm waiting to see what Lauren thinks about what's been discussed so far, but I am of the opinion that allowing "first chapters" is just going to start making things too complicated. I feel we should leave the proposed rule as is.

 

[KarennaC]

In my opinion:
If the stories for the contest have to be standalones, then I don't think a completed series should count if it's split into chapters that are named as chapters. (For example, "Brown Eyes Chapter 1", "Brown Eyes Chapter 2" and so on.) Even the first chapter may not stand on its own, which would mean it wouldn't be eligible.

As a couple of people have said, stories can be part of a series without being chapters. If an author considers their work too long to submit as one story, rather than breaking it up into chapters, which wouldn't necessarily stand on their own, maybe they could find a way to break it into shorter stories, which would stand on their own but be part of a series and could be titled accordingly, maybe with a word in common to indicate that the stories are a series. (Using starrkers's example, each of the Harry Potter novels has Harry's name as part of the title.)

If someone asks for a continuation of a story and the author decides to go that route, which was the case for all but one of my "chapter stories" this year, instead of continuing with chapters, one could follow the rules of the contest, which state that stories can have recurring characters and reference each other as long as they stand alone. Those stories also would be part of a series, not chapters of a whole.

Did any of that make any sense? I'm writing this after spending a day teaching elementary students plus arguing with my own 10-year-old...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

It all makes sense to me. I agree with the latest set of proposed rules posted by Crimson on #133. If anyone wants to write a chaptered story, he/she can always do it outside the scope of the contest.

 

[scouries]

i'd prefer no immunities at all but...

QUOTE CM 3 - Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that category to any further submissions and fill the 3-submission requirement. That immunity will be worth 3 points. If your cap is then raised to 5, you can only fill it in this category by using another immunity, which will be worth 1 point. If your cap is raised to 6, you will need another immunity; and so on, a new immunity for each cap level. A category can only have either regular submissions or immunities, and never both.

Why give 3 points to someone who hasn’t written a story? If you feel you must continue to have immunities fine – but don’t reward authors who use them with points. Allow authors to fill categories with them (so they can move on and/or collect bonuses) but please no points for not writing in a category.

The contests main goal is to have authors write in every category - why reward them for skirting the ones they find difficult?

james r scouries … reporting from toronto

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I'm cool with that. It does make sense.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'd support the idea of eliminating points for immunities, and just let the immunity be a "free pass" on a category.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

There's been much discussion about "stand alone" stories.

I'm not a dumb man, but I have no idea what a "stand alone" story is.

Now, I have a degree in English and when I was in school, not that long ago, my Professors, all of whom had MFA and Ph.D degrees only discussed two main writing categories, Fiction and Non-fiction. Not once do I remember any of them mentioning "stand alone" stories.

I would think that any story someone writes would have to be a "stand alone" story to make sense, even those stories that are part of a longer piece that was broken up in chapters, not so much to score points, but for the convenience of readers who don't want to read a 70,000 words story.

For the record, I would think that those writers who submit 750 word stories (Erin) are more guilty of writing stories to score points than those writers who write 3,000 word multi-chapter stories (Freddie). I don't get why you don't get that. Yet, you call my stories shit, and just as you wrote last year, Lauren, you'd rather read any one of MungoPark's 750 word stories than one of mine, I guess you prefer 750 word stories to stories that have character development and a plot.

I read, reread, and read the Survivor Rules over and again and no where could I find a rule that states that a story must be "stand alone" stories to score points. Now, here it is November and we are talking about "stand alone" stories. Yes, I realize that Lauren made a post on January 8th referencing an unofficial rule that wasn't part of the official Survivor Contest rules about "stand alone" stories, but that was the only post that I could find, until the reminder that she posted in November.

I figure this...that my stories, all of which are in fact "stand alone" stories whatever the definition of that is today or tomorrow or January 2nd will be pulled, deleted, and deemed not "stand alone" stories.

I suspect that this is what this little exercise is all about. There are those who will post "It's not all about you, Freddie". Unfortunately, in this circumstance, it is all about Freddie.

Do me a favor and spare me and the others the ridiculous unfairness of this contest and just disqualify me. It's apparent the moderators here are doing everything in their power to award the win to a more favored contestant, so...just do it.

Why waste all this energy on "stand alone" story and multi-chapter discussions and other other subjective and arbitrary miscellaneous ramblings about what constitutes an erotic story and where this story should have been posted and how Literotica cannot possibly check every story to see that the "author" is not trying to cheat. WTF!

This is nuts.

To me the real idiocy of this contest is the 750 word story. Yes, there are some stories that can be told in 750 words...I guess, but to have writers posting a steady stream of abbreviated stories and not have one serious discussion about increasing the length of the story is crazy.

I know that if I had posted three hundred 750 words stories instead of multi-chapter stories, guess what, we wouldn't be discussing "stand alone" stories. We'd be discussing needing to increase the length of stories from 750 words to 1,500 or more.

After the contest is over when authors cannot possibly correct posts that are arbitrarily and unfairly switched from one category to another or deleted entirely, I really don't care how many stories of mine you switch or delete. It no longer matters to me. Do whatever will make your life better. I've already had my fun. I had fun writing the stories. That's what it was all about for me. It's about the story.

I'm done wasting my time and energy with this friggin contest. I don't think I'll be participating in any more contests on this site. If I win Survivor...good. If I come in second place...good. If you disqualify me for who knows what reason, so be it. There ain't nothin' I can do about that. I can't worry about things that are completely out of my control.

Until the day comes when Laurel asks me not to post my stories here anymore, I'll still post my stories. This other shit is...shit.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

...and furthermore, while I have this survivor bug up my ass...

I think there should be a rule that scorecards must be updated within a week of the submitted story posting otherwise you lose the points.

This "hide and seek" of scorecards and people not updating scorecards until New Year's Eve is moronic.

I can't imagine a baseball game where you didn't know the score.

"What's the score?"

"I don't know. The games not over yet?"

"The game's not over yet? What do you mean?"

"Oh, they don't give the score until after the game is over."

I've been upfront with my scorecard, updating it as stories posted and leaving it there for anyone to check all the "stand alone" stories I posted and all the "correct category" stories I posted.

This contest is getting wayyyyyy too complicated, overly complicated. Scouries had some ideas to simplify it. I think some of you people need to get a life.

My life to me is not the Survivor Contest. Presently, much of my life is about writing because I'd like to be a better writer, but the people who lurk on this site make it very difficult for people like me who just love to write.

Between people continually bashing my stories, erasing all my red H's over and again, leaving insane comments, and the disrespect received from the top people who work or volunteer here, I don't know why I continue to write here, other than the fact that there aren't very many places for a guy like me to post his stories. At this point, I just want to be left alone to write my stories.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[michchick98]

I read, reread, and read the Survivor Rules over and again and no where could I find a rule that states that a story must be "stand alone" stories to score points. Now, here it is November and we are talking about "stand alone" stories. Yes, I realize that Lauren made a post on January 8th referencing an unofficial rule that wasn't part of the official Survivor Contest rules about "stand alone" stories, but that was the only post that I could find, until the reminder that she posted in November.

Once again, you show your reading comprehension skills, Freddie. They're talking about rules for NEXT YEAR...2009, not 2008.

But you see what you wanna see and read what you wanna read and think everyone is out to get you.

And since no one else will say it, let me say it again for you, slowly:

YOU.

ARE.

NOT.

THE.

ONLY.

ONE.

WHO.

HAS.

SUBMITTED.

MULTI-CHAPTER.

STORIES.

FOR.

THE.

SURVIVOR.

CONTEST.

IT'S.

NOT.

ALL.

ABOUT.

YOU.

Get it now? No, I didn't think so.

I just hope that a few weeks from now, you'll have to do a lot of tap-dancing to appease the people you've so blatantly accused of cheating over the course of the year. Won't be so whiny about the rules, then, will you?

 

[Darkniciad]

Stand-alone means that what's on the page makes sense without reading what comes before or after it. There needs to be a beginning and an ending.

I'd known her since we were kids. I thought she was a lesbian. I devised a test. I asked her to suck me off while naked. She agreed. It was great.

That's a ( simplistic ) stand-alone story based upon your most recent chapter.

That chapter boils down to this:

I asked her to suck me off while naked. She agreed.

We dont' know who anybody is, all that happened in the previous chapters. You don't re-introduce them, so you have to go back and read the previous chapters to know. The "test" is just thrown at you in the first paragraph. Without the title, you'd have to go back and read the previous chapters to know what's going. There's no conclusion -- there's a cliff-hanger.

"Do you feel lucky? Well, do you?"

THE END

Dirty Harry wouldn't have been much of a movie if it ended that way.

Huh? Did he shoot him? What's the point? I want my money back!

Kathy has her gun drawn in your latest chapter. She's asked you if you feel lucky. We have no idea if anybody's firing, though.

That's the difference between a chapter and a stand-alone story.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I guess you prefer 750 word stories to stories that have character development and a plot.

You guess wrong. I prefer to read stories that have character development and a plot, even if they are only 750 words long, rather than stories that supposedly have character development and a plot but end up merely boring me for a longer time than others. If you think the shoe fits, I'm sure you'll let us all know.

I think there should be a rule that scorecards must be updated within a week of the submitted story posting otherwise you lose the points.

As it has been explained repeatedly, that will not happen because it is virtually impossible for a person to keep track of every single story posted by every single contestant and of every single scorecard, every single day. Furthermore, it's just a really, really, stupid idea.

At this point, I just want to be left alone to write my stories.

I believe that's what everybody wants.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Proposed New Rules:

1. Multi-chaptered stories will not be allowed. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. The only exceptions to this rule are:
   --- a) the Chain Stories category, for obvious reasons, but each author will only be allowed one chapter eligible for Survivor per chain;
   --- b) the Novels and Novellas category, where submissions can either be standalone stories with 7500 words or more, or chapters of a larger work, as long as each chapter has 7500 words or more.
   
   
2. There will be a 3-submission cap for all categories. If an author completes his/her scorecard with 3 submissions in each and every category, the cap for that author will be increased to 5. If he/she then reaches that cap in each and every category, the cap will again be raised to 6, then 7, then 8, and so on. This is only verified at the end of the year, as always, and as happens to all aspects of Survivor. The order in which stories are written is irrelevant. By the end of the year, the 4th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 3 submissions or 1 immunity on all categories. The 6th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 5 submissions or 2 immunities on all categories. The 7th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 6 submissions or 3 immunities on all categories.
   
   
3. Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that category to any further submissions and fill the 3-submission requirement. That immunity will be worth 3 points. If your cap is then raised to 5, you can only fill it in this category by using another immunity, which will be worth 1 point. If your cap is raised to 6, you will need another immunity; and so on, a new immunity for each cap level. A category can only have either regular submissions or immunities, and never both.
   
   
4. The bonus for having 10 submissions in one category no longer applies; the bonuses for having submissions/immunities in 10, in 20, in 30 and in all categories, remain as this year's edition.
   
   
5. In addition to the 35 regular categories, there will be a bonus category: Special Contests. Submissions in this heading must be valid entries accepted in a Literotica Special Contest. Only one entry per contest is eligible for points, and if it is counted under this heading, it cannot be counted under a regular category. There will be an extra bonus for entering all 6 special contests. Immunities cannot be used for this bonus category, neither does this category count towards the 10-, 20-, 30- and all-category bonuses.

Okay, it seems we have put proposed rule #1 to bed and the majority feel that it should be left as stated above. If you wish to write a "continuation" story with the same characters as a previous story, that's fine as long as it stands alone and does not have chapters.

The bolded rule on immunities is now up for discussion. We have a suggestion that we allow immunities so people can take a pass on a specific category but not allow points so they are not rewarded for the pass. I agree with this. I think it's a great compromise. However... would those immunity filled categories still count towards the total category filled bonuses?

 

[fieryjen]

Okay, it seems we have put proposed rule #1 to bed and the majority feel that it should be left as stated above. If you wish to write a "continuation" story with the same characters as a previous story, that's fine as long as it stands alone and does not have chapters.

The bolded rule on immunities is now up for discussion. We have a suggestion that we allow immunities so people can take a pass on a specific category but not allow points so they are not rewarded for the pass. I agree with this. I think it's a great compromise. However... would those immunity filled categories still count towards the total category filled bonuses?

They shouldn't be worth any points, but they should still count for the total category filled bonus IMO.

 

[Darkniciad]

Hmm... if you're going to remove point value of immunities, it stands to reason that the "fill all category" bonuses should vanish as well, should you choose to use an immunity.

It's a little more in the spirit of the stated intent of the contest.

However, doing this makes the immunities pointless for anything except raising the cap.

To me, I think the immunities should have more value than that, if they're going to exist. So I say no points for the immunities, but they count toward category bonuses to give them a bit more value and relevance.