2009 Survivor Poetry Challenge: Workshop

The rhyme pattern is correct, but the lines scan as iambic tetrameter instead of iambic pentameter. I'm not sure that's that big a flaw, though, as it is a regular metrical pattern. I'm assuming you're imitating the sound of the Frost poem Anna posted as example, as that poem is in iambic tetrameter.

Take out the second "her" in line two (so the line reads "her dreams of life so long ago") to fix the only flaw I hear in the meter. Otherwise I think it scans perfectly iambic.
(I also meant the 2nd 'her')
There are a couple of places I find it hard to come out iambic.
The darling of her father's eye
This would make 'of' accented. I'd see the accent more on 'her' or perhaps neither.
Thsi is just my opinion, and may well be wrong.
This may well indicate that the rules I proposed:
...Single syllable words would use a rule
like examination of preceeding and following words and prioritize based upon
parts of speech, with the higher ranked words being given stresses first.
A suggested partial priority would be verb, noun, ...
Is such a rule aided by also knowing a target foot (iamb, spondee, ...)?...
are too simpleminded.
 
Thanks guys sigh this is so hard think my head is wired wrong ....... but no surprise there then!
 
There are a couple of places I find it hard to come out iambic.
The darling of her father's eye
This would make 'of' accented. I'd see the accent more on 'her' or perhaps neither.

This is just my opinion, and may well be wrong.
We all read things slightly, or significantly, differently, depending on our accents, or simply how we read things, I suppose. I think I get that line as iambic because it fits well with the rest of the poem. English tends to be iambic (or trochaic, depending on what one defines as the first foot of the scan), so I tend to read it that way.

And I'm not sure there actually is any "wrong" here, but I do hear the line as The darling of her father's eyes, which is pure iambic.

This may well indicate that the rules I proposed . . . are too simpleminded.
They probably are, at least for any comprehensive scanner. Your proposal has merit, but is probably simplistic, as you say.

Take a word like "poem," an example I've used before. Most people in my part of the country (northwestern USA) pronounce this as a single syllable word: as if it was spelled pome. Listening to the pronunciation examples at The Free Online Dictionary suggests that British and American English pronounces the word quite differently—Americans tend to mash the syllables together and the British do not.

Personally, I sometimes do and sometimes don't.

Mash. :cool:
 
Thanks guys sigh this is so hard think my head is wired wrong ....... but no surprise there then!
I think you just need very clear examples. You obviously can hear the meter well enough to imitate the iambic tetrameter of Frost, which you did very well (again, assuming that's what inspired that last bit of verse). My guess is that it is easier for you to imitate than generate—that you can hear it compared to something that is already in that meter and very strong and uniform, and you can match that sound, but that it is hard for you to hear it in the abstract.

That's mostly a matter of ear training, I think. Not impossible, like you can't hear it—just hard.
 
They probably are, at least for any comprehensive scanner. Your proposal has merit, but is probably simplistic, as you say.

Take a word like "poem," an example I've used before. Most people in my part of the country (northwestern USA) pronounce this as a single syllable word: as if it was spelled pome. Listening to the pronunciation examples at The Free Online Dictionary suggests that British and American English pronounces the word quite differently—Americans tend to mash the syllables together and the British do not.

Personally, I sometimes do and sometimes don't.

Mash. :cool:
I hope to start on my prototype soon (not the sort of programs I get paid for).
I haven't looked yet, but does anyone know of a down loadable dictionary file which has syllable breakdown and accents ?

My proposal's suggested format is quite simple and might serve as a starting point. Any such program, much like a spellchecker, would need to ask the user about words it didn't have. Unlike a spellchecker, the user would need to provide breakdown, accents and parts of speech. With an early prototype I could build the dictionary that way, but others would find that too annoying.
 
so, what are the chances I will get 6 more immunities before the challenge is over :)

hehe just kidding.

And I agree, UYS, you can hear the meter, it is just hard for now, will get easier. I don't think it is your brain wiring, your brain is fine :) As the gentlemen said, you got the iambic part down. I think iambic pentameter lines feel way too long for my taste, but when I have to do them, I will.


okay. I have two different kinds of sonnets to write....might as well get started now.
 
um.... do sonnets HAVE to be iambic pentameter? The criteria say "traditionally" so can I do iambic tetrameter for the Italian and Spenserian sonnets?
 
Odds are pretty good for 4 or 5 more, actually, but 6 would be stretching it. :p

oooh goodie! I never gave myself credit for my Rima! I wonder if I have any more out there I forgot to count....hmm....

Okay I am diving into the sonnet.

I think I will do iambic tetrameter. Pentameter is like being pet the wrong way. Like an extra step at the bottom of the flight. To me that is.

hmm

okay don't fear the sonnet....
 
I'd like to make a plea that the challenge for April not be toooooooo challenging as I go on vacation half way through it and will only have half the time everyone else will to complete it!
 
I'd like to make a plea that the challenge for April not be toooooooo challenging as I go on vacation half way through it and will only have half the time everyone else will to complete it!

Do you mean May? April is already posted.

Annie, I feel for you that you will be on vacation, (a little jealous as well) but it does not mean you will have half the time everyone else does to complete it.

Everyone has their own personal challenges to get here and write, vacations, illness, death of friends or family members, house guests that don't leave, pressures at work.... all we can do is do our best, knowing we will not always make every deadline. All we can do is try to support each other through the tough times and provide encouragement, knowing that it will most likely all even out in the end.

There are 12 months of challenges, and there will be at least one month for each of us that is more challenging than the others. Many have already missed one or two of the challenges due to schedule conflicts of one sort or the other.

This summer, I already know that I will probably miss maybe July and definitely August, as I will be trekking across the country by myself with 3 kids, no internet in my mini-van or while on vacation with my extended family.

Have a great trip! Surely you will get a lot of inspiration!

~Anna
 
I'd like to make a plea that the challenge for April not be toooooooo challenging as I go on vacation half way through it and will only have half the time everyone else will to complete it!
ANd I've got a time-critical project which has to be completed during the period. And not likely to be as good a source for inspirationas a vacation can be ...
 
Early progress on 'MeterMeter'

I hope to start on my prototype soon (not the sort of programs I get paid for).
I haven't looked yet, but does anyone know of a down loadable dictionary file which has syllable breakdown and accents ?

My proposal's suggested format is quite simple and might serve as a starting point. Any such program, much like a spellchecker, would need to ask the user about words it didn't have. Unlike a spellchecker, the user would need to provide breakdown, accents and parts of speech. With an early prototype I could build the dictionary that way, but others would find that too annoying.
I've got some initial results here - more work needed. I've been using UYS stanza as a test case (including the 2 'her's in the one line). - hope that's OK. Earliest work done with a few lines of junk. I've found a suitable dictionary (GCIDE 0.46).
 
Can someone help me with punctuation here please?
Which is correct 'old man's lust' or 'old mans lust'?
 
Can someone help me with punctuation here please?
Which is correct 'old man's lust' or 'old mans lust'?

what is the context?

is it the lust of one old man? old man's lust

I guess if it was the general lust of old men it would be old man lust (kind of like that old man smell)

this is a fun one!

if it is a whole bunch of old men and they all have a singular lust
old men's lust
or the lusts of many old men
old men's lusts


hehe

sorry I am just having fun and can't wait to see the poem :)
 
I guess if it was the general lust of old men it would be old man lust (kind of like that old man smell)
Or someone's lust for old men, something like: When Rip Van Winkle first emerged, sleepy-eyed, from the forest, Dorothy was bowled over by a sudden wave of old man lust.
 
Back
Top