2010 News & Views: Discussions and Announcements for the Survivorphile

[OnlyByMoonlight]

How does one determine the difference between a sequel and a story with the same character(s) that is a stand alone story that can be counted for survivor?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

How does one determine the difference between a sequel and a story with the same character(s) that is a stand alone story that can be counted for survivor?

If it is a continuation of the same story arc, situation, etc, then it's a chapter. If it has the same characters but does not relate to previous story, it's stand alone.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

How does one determine the difference between a sequel and a story with the same character(s) that is a stand alone story that can be counted for survivor?

If the events in one story unfold from the ones set on the previous story, it's a sequel. If the events are independent and the stories don't reference each other, they aren't sequels.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

There you go.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

There you go.

Something tells me you were typing the same time I was.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyByMoonlight
How does one determine the difference between a sequel and a story with the same character(s) that is a stand alone story that can be counted for survivor? [/quote]

Response by Crimson Maiden
If it is a continuation of the same story arc, situation, etc, then it's a chapter. If it has the same characters but does not relate to previous story, it's stand alone.

If the events in one story unfold from the ones set on the previous story, it's a sequel. If the events are independent and the stories don't reference each other, they aren't sequels.

Does it occur to you that you and Crim are giving substantially different answers. I had the impression that sequels would be alrtight, as long as they are stand-alone stories.

 

[OnlyByMoonlight]

Quote:

Does it occur to you that you and Crim are giving substantially different answers. I had the impression that sequels would be alrtight, as long as they are stand-alone stories.

I agree. I was under the impression sequels were okay as long as they were stand alone stories too.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Now, I don't feel quite so bad about being confused.

I believe the rules say that the stories with the same characters can reference previous stories. I think.

ETA:
deleted because obviously I was wrong

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

See this post and this post.

This was part of the "sequel" vs "chapter" discussion during the year. My posts states you can't do a continuing storyline. The next post talks about the fact that a sequel isn't always a chapter (which obviously is when it does NOT follow the same story line.)

IE: As said in that second post, James Bond movies are considered sequels, but in that series, they would not be chapters because they aren't continuing story lines. Lethal Weapon would be another movie series like that.

However, Star Wars & Lord of the Rings are examples of movies whose sequels are chapters because it's one long story arc.

 

[OnlyByMoonlight]

Okay so as I understand it now, if you write a 3 part series and they have to be read in a certain order then they're chapters. If you could read number 3 first then 2 then 1 and not realize you read them 'out of order' (meaning there really is no true order) then the stories would qualify for survivor. This is how i'm understanding it after reading all the posts.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Okay so as I understand it now, if you write a 3 part series and they have to be read in a certain order then they're chapters. If you could read number 3 first then 2 then 1 and not realize you read them 'out of order' (meaning there really is no true order) then the stories would qualify for survivor. This is how i'm understanding it after reading all the posts.

If they don't relate to each other, don't follow the same storyline, are completely different stories... then they'd qualify.

 

[Boxlicker101]

See this post and this post.

This was part of the "sequel" vs "chapter" discussion during the year. My posts states you can't do a continuing storyline. The next post talks about the fact that a sequel isn't always a chapter (which obviously is when it does NOT follow the same story line.)

IE: As said in that second post, James Bond movies are considered sequels, but in that series, they would not be chapters because they aren't continuing story lines. Lethal Weapon would be another movie series like that.

However, Star Wars & Lord of the Rings are examples of movies whose sequels are chapters because it's one long story arc.

The rule about chaptered stories as compared to sequels is a lot tougher than the rule described:

Multi-chaptered stories are not eligible for the contest. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. (I omitted the exceptions to the rule)

There is now something being said about "the arc of the story" although I don't know just what that means.

I had some stories disallowed because of the similarity of their names, even though I still think of them as stand alone stories in a series about the same person or persons, such as The Hot Blonde Student and Angel Jones and Strider. I name them like that because I want people to know they are series. I will probably continue to do so this year, even if they are not counted.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

story arc = continued storyline

 

[sr71plt]

story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.

Interesting. I would consider that the definition of plot.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt
story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.

Interesting. I would consider that the definition of plot.

Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.

Well, I know one part of plot that your stories have- climax!!!
LOL

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101

Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.

Well, I know one part of plot that your stories have- climax!!!
LOL

You're right. The women usually have at leasty two of those.

 

[sr71plt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt
story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.




Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.

Then they are probably vignettes rather than stories. Which is fine for Lit., I think.

 

[sr71plt]

Interesting. I would consider that the definition of plot.

story arc is plot--or so they teach in MFA courses.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt
story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.


Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.

Then they are probably vignettes rather than stories. Which is fine for Lit., I think.

I don't think I would call them vignettes. Some of them are quite long, over 10,000 words. I just submitted a celeb story that is 7,800 words long.

 

[sr71plt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt
story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.


Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.




I don't think I would call them vignettes. Some of them are quite long, over 10,000 words. I just submitted a celeb story that is 7,800 words long.

Doesn't make them stories. A case where length doesn't matter. A story has the elements I noted. That's why, incidentally, that traditionalists (and many contests) wouldn't accept the currently popular "slice of life" works as being stories.

If you have a work of 10,000 words without a story arc, I'm sorry, but I'd have to call that verbose mess.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Originally Posted by sr71plt
story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.


Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.

I don't think I would call them vignettes. Some of them are quite long, over 10,000 words. I just submitted a celeb story that is 7,800 words long

Doesn't make them stories. A case where length doesn't matter. A story has the elements I noted. That's why, incidentally, that traditionalists (and many contests) wouldn't accept the currently popular "slice of life" works as being stories.

If you have a work of 10,000 words without a story arc, I'm sorry, but I'd have to call that verbose mess.

I'm thinking in particular about a series I have, of ten stories, ranging from 8,751 words to 15,454. Every one of them sp0rts a H

 

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by sr71plt
story arc = dilemma, conflict, change, resolution.


Very interesting. Most of my stories don't have any of those things.

I don't think I would call them vignettes. Some of them are quite long, over 10,000 words. I just submitted a celeb story that is 7,800 words long




I'm thinking in particular about a series I have, of ten stories, ranging from 8,751 words to 15,454. Every one of them sp0rts a H

An H from Lit. readers doesn't ipso facto make them stories, either.

You are talking apples and oranges--and, largely, I suspect you don't realize that you probably are putting the necessary elements into them.

 

[al_Ussa]

Only one of my stories has an H

But then again, its also one of my better works imho.

Anyway, the concept of 'story arcs' is a common theme in pop culture (at least, comics and television). The current Blackest Night story arc in the DC universe and many of the old Doctor Who serials for example, or for movie goers you've got Star Wars and The Matrix.

In these sorts of stories, you have a very definite metaplot that keeps getting advanced. Basically conflict -> resolution. The 'resolution' might wind up being a maitanence of the status quo, but even so, there is some sort of overarching plot. Some common feature that unites it.

Conversely, more you have more episodic series that don't have a 'story arc,' just common characters and settings. The Indiana Jones movies don't follow some overarching plot, even if they have a chronological order. Ditto for James Bond. You can watch one of those without watching the others. There just aren't those common overarching plots.

At least, that's how I understand it.