2010 News & Views: Discussions and Announcements for the Survivorphile

[CrimsonMaiden]

I had some stories disallowed because of the similarity of their names, even though I still think of them as stand alone stories in a series about the same person or persons, such as The Hot Blonde Student and Angel Jones and Strider. I name them like that because I want people to know they are series. I will probably continue to do so this year, even if they are not counted.

The similarity of the titles is NOT what got the stories disqualified. All of the stories that were disqualified were checked (meaning read enough of it to see what the story was about) to see if they were a continuation of another story. Box, a lot of yours even had a note at the top saying 'This story is a continuation of x story'. I'm sorry but "continuation" is synonymous with "chapter".

Both Lauren and myself checked the disqualified stories and we agreed on the decision. It's one of the reasons it is taking so long to get the scores posted. I have spent the majority of the last two days working on them.

Honestly guys, I'm amazed at the amount of questions over what makes a chapter. Y'all should know that if you are using the same characters, in the same place, in the same situation... it's chapters. If it's about a bunch of friends and their experiences in a pony farm, it's chapters. If it's about a guy and his ongoing relationship with his step-mother, her girlfriend, and her daughter... it's chapters. If it's about a guy and his seduction of the neighborhood women... it's chapters. I could go on, but that's what I remember off the top of my head.

As far as the comments that the language of the rule wasn't as specific as what we've been talking about the last day or so, the rule states: Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. I'm sorry guys, but this seems pretty clear to me. If you are writing about a situation, relationship, etc. that's in one of your other stories and you are continuing it, it's not original or independent. If you are picking up where the last story left off, it's not original or independent.

I'm sorry it affected some of the scores the way it did, but it is what it is. Several were affected, it wasn't just one or two people.

 

[scouries]

I'im seriously considering becoming a SURVIVALIST in 2010 and have a couple of questions concerning the rules (and a couple of suggestions).I've highlighted the rule in question in black.

• You may only enter the contest under one UserID.
How will this be monitored? Will someone who’s found to have entered under two (or more) UserID’s have all of his entries disqualified?

• Ties will break in favour of:
1. the participant with more categories with at least one submission or immunity;
2. the participant with more submissions entered in the contest.

While a tie sounds unlikely if one does happen I’m not sure I understand the above rule. When does point #2 come into play? Is it only if the contestants are tied after using point #1? If so the rule should probably read:

• Ties will be broken in favor of:
1. The participant with more categories with at least one submission or immunity;
If they are still tied then the tie will be broken in favor of:
2. The participant with more submissions entered in the contest.


My second question on this rule is: Does the above mean that someone who entered actual stories in 30 categories would lose to someone who had entered stories in only 26 but had used 5 immunities?

If so I believe as a tiebreaker you should change the rule to give preference to the author who’d actually written in more categories. This would seem to be a fairer way to accurately reflect the objective of the contest. The rule could then read:

• Ties will be broken in favor of:
1. The participant with more categories with at least one submission;
If they are still tied then the tie will be broken in favor of:
2. The participant with more submissions entered in the contest.

•Rules are subject to change without notice.

Allowing people to change the rules during the contest is absolutely ludicrous. Surely at some point the rules for the year have to be etched in stone and not subject to change? Many of the problems of the last few years seem to have been due to this cavalier changing of the rules midstream.


jim

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

The userID rule was added because someone known as two different IDs entered with both. This is not fair to other contestants. Any person known to have entered under more than one ID will be asked to choose which one they wish to participate under and only that entry will be valid.

As far as the order of the tie breakers, that rule was in effect before I joined as moderator, but I'm assuming the reason it's categories first is because the emphasis of survivor is to write in every category. Lauren can give further information on why it's categories first and then submissions. It may be that this is something that should be looked at since the cap level ensures more even distribution of stories throughout the categories than in previous years.

As far as the statement "rules can be changed without notice", I've never seen a set of contest rules that does not include those, but again, that rule was there before I came on board, so Lauren should be able to answer it.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Any other questions about rulings made for the 2009 contest, please post them in the 2009 News & Views thread in the Archive or send me or Lauren a pm. The rest of the scorecard verifications and ScoreBoard final update will be be finished and information forwarded to Laurel by the end of the night. Any more questions about 2009 posted here will be moved to the requested thread. Any more rants or ect. about the results will be moved to Off-Topic thread.

Please leave this thread open for 2010 Discussion. Thank you.

 

[scouries]

tweak the 2010 scoring system???

More questions: (and while it does discuss 2009 results the final question and the intent of this post is directed to the 2010 contest so I believe it should be on this thread)

Last year during the discussions that led to the revamping of the scoring system one of the prime objectives seemed to be to encourage entrants to actually write in more categories than had been done in the past.

I believe one of the hopes was to have more people actually complete the circuit of all categories (as opposed to amassing huge numbers of votes with chaptered stories and/or with large numbers of stories in fewer categories – the reason for the category caps).

I tried to check today to see if anyone had written a story in every category but given the huge number of threads it was impossible.

So my question is: Did anyone actually write a story in every category?

If not Did anyone cover every category when they included immunities?

If not, has anyone given any consideration to how we can further encourage writers to successfully achieve the full 35(?) category circuit? I, for one, believe the greatest achievement for any SURVIVALIST would be to write a story in every category.

Perhaps the bonus system for 2010 should be tweaked to help achieve this goal?

jim

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

There are already bonuses in place to encourage hitting all categories. The more categories you fill, the larger bonus you get.

10 categories gets you 5 bonus points.
20 categories gets you 10 additional bonus points.
30 categories gets you 15 additional bonus points.
All 35 categories gets you 30 additional bonus points.

So if you write (or fill with both stories and immunities) in all categories, you get 60 total bonus points. I think that's a pretty good incentive.

As far as if anyone in 2009 wrote in all categories, I'd have to check. I know we have some who filled all with both stories and immunities, and have had people fill all with stories in past contests.

ETA: Yes, there was at least one person in the 2009 contest who wrote in every category.

 

[OnlyByMoonlight]

I'm curious about how the no chapters rule applies to the How To and Reviews and Essays. For instance, if you write a How To, then get a lot of questions and decide to write a follow up to answer those, would it count?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I'm curious about how the no chapters rule applies to the How To and Reviews and Essays. For instance, if you write a How To, then get a lot of questions and decide to write a follow up to answer those, would it count?

I would think those would be chapters... simply because the second one would be a follow up and therefore, would not be original. You could write it, obviously, but it would not count for points.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

ScoreCards are up for all valid entries so far. Welcome pms will be coming either tonight or sometime this weekend. Most of you are return participants, so you know the drill.

The ones who are new, you should go check out January's Immunity thread and pick a number if you wish to participate in the Immunities.

 

[scouries]

QUOTE CM There are already bonuses in place to encourage hitting all categories. The more categories you fill, the larger bonus you get.

10 categories gets you 5 bonus points.
20 categories gets you 10 additional bonus points.
30 categories gets you 15 additional bonus points.
All 35 categories gets you 30 additional bonus points.

So if you write (or fill with both stories and immunities) in all categories, you get 60 total bonus points. I think that's a pretty good incentive.

ETA: Yes, there was at least one person in the 2009 contest who wrote in every category.

Yes, if I read the results correctly it was [size=+2]wife2hotblk’s[/size] who achieved the deed. I think congratulations are in order – in my short observation of the contest I don’t think I’ve ever seen it done before.

And yes cm, 60 points bonus is a pretty good incentive. My feeling was simply that actually writing a story in every category was better than filling every category with stories and immunities. And that it should be rewarded with a little larger bonus to encourage others to try it. Just an idea….

PERHAPS:

10 categories gets you 5 bonus points.
20 categories gets you 10 additional bonus points.
30 categories gets you 15 additional bonus points.
35 categories gets you 15 additional bonus points.
35 categories (ALL STORIES) gets you 15 additional bonus points.

jrs

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

scurrs... why don't you join in?

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[wife2hotblk]

Yes, I did it. In fact, that was one of my goals for the contest...to write in every category. It was hard, especially with ones such as incest/taboo where I am personally squeamish or ones such as gay male or transsexual that I have no experience. But in addition to helping me to develop the discipline to write regularly, making me to step out of my comfort zones and try those hard things was the best thing about the contest. I do not play the immunity game at all for that very reason.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I think both the language and the application of the chapters rule is flawed and it seems it happened to enough people that it's not just me who misunderstood.

I want something clarified however. Since the rules claimed that we could have recurring charachters and we could reference previous events it kind of opened itself up to problems from the get go. The specific thing I would like to see addressed however is I think chaptered stories should be allowed to count as a SINGLE story. In the same way that Muses wasn't disqualified because not every chapter was 7500 words long, most were around five, but combined the story was over 90k. For whatever reason this year I've been getting long winded. Am I allowed to write a story, break it into chapters and still count it as a SINGLE story.

I ask because it seems that the spirit of the rule was that we didn't want people to write one big story and chop it into bits. We didn't want to discourage people from writing longer stories.

 

[OnlyByMoonlight]

I think both the language and the application of the chapters rule is flawed and it seems it happened to enough people that it's not just me who misunderstood.

I want something clarified however. Since the rules claimed that we could have recurring charachters and we could reference previous events it kind of opened itself up to problems from the get go. The specific thing I would like to see addressed however is I think chaptered stories should be allowed to count as a SINGLE story. In the same way that Muses wasn't disqualified because not every chapter was 7500 words long, most were around five, but combined the story was over 90k. For whatever reason this year I've been getting long winded. Am I allowed to write a story, break it into chapters and still count it as a SINGLE story.

I ask because it seems that the spirit of the rule was that we didn't want people to write one big story and chop it into bits. We didn't want to discourage people from writing longer stories.

I agree very much

 

[Middleagepoet]

Filling all categories

QUOTE CM There are already bonuses in place to encourage hitting all categories. The more categories you fill, the larger bonus you get.

10 categories gets you 5 bonus points.
20 categories gets you 10 additional bonus points.
30 categories gets you 15 additional bonus points.
All 35 categories gets you 30 additional bonus points.

So if you write (or fill with both stories and immunities) in all categories, you get 60 total bonus points. I think that's a pretty good incentive.

ETA: Yes, there was at least one person in the 2009 contest who wrote in every category.

Yes, if I read the results correctly it was [size=+2]wife2hotblk’s[/size] who achieved the deed. I think congratulations are in order – in my short observation of the contest I don’t think I’ve ever seen it done before.

And yes cm, 60 points bonus is a pretty good incentive. My feeling was simply that actually writing a story in every category was better than filling every category with stories and immunities. And that it should be rewarded with a little larger bonus to encourage others to try it. Just an idea….

PERHAPS:

10 categories gets you 5 bonus points.
20 categories gets you 10 additional bonus points.
30 categories gets you 15 additional bonus points.
35 categories gets you 15 additional bonus points.
35 categories (ALL STORIES) gets you 15 additional bonus points.

jrs

I took a moment to look through the Survivor Archives and found that writing in every category had been achieved in every contest dating back to 2003 except for last year.

In 2003 Master_Vassago won the contest filling all categories with no immunities.

In 2004 Velvetpie finished second but wrote in every category with no immunities. That year Jthserra, in winning the contest, filled every English Language category with at least 10 stories taking an immunity in the foreign language category only. After 2004 the Foreign Language category was removed as a category amid complaints of using computer translators to provide the translation of a story creating some very odd results.

In 2005 Velvetpie won and Sexy Vixen finished second, both completing all categories with no immunities. As an interesting note: Sean Renaud entered the contest on 12/28/2005 and finished in 11th place with 115 points, which appears to be the first time a late entrant finished in the top finishers.

In 2006 Decayed Angel won and Dirtyjoe69 finished third filling all categories with stories, no immunities.

In 2007 MungoParkIII won and Magica Practica finished third filling all categories with stories, no immunities. MungoParkIII entered the contest on 12/31/2007 to become the second time a late entrant finished in the top finishers.

In 2008 No one filled all categories with stories and no immunities.

In 2009 Wife2htblk finished second filling all categories with stories, no immunities. UnderYourSpell won and EroticOrogeny finished second filling all catetories in the 2009 Survivor Poetry contest.


Looking through the archives there are some other interesting finds.

Story templating, a recent controversy, was actually disallowed between the 2004 and 2005 contest. The Foreign Language category was eliminated from Literotica at this time too, as I mentioned above. The prize structure was revised from just the top three contestants winning prizes to the top fifteen receiving prizes.

While a late entry scorecard scored in the top finishers in 2005 the rules were not changed, moving the latest entry time to 10/31, until between the 2007 and 2008 contest.

Between the 2008 and 2009 contest chaptered stories were disallowed on all except for the Chain Story and Novels & Novella Categories. Of course the cap system and scoring revision was the major change in the rules at that time. Also, the Survivor Poetry Contest started.


Note: The archives only went back as far as the 2003 contest, so results prior to that time have not been reviewed.

MAP

 

[Middleagepoet]

Thank you

While I reviewed the archives I noticed something else, Crimson Maiden has acted as a moderator to the Survivor Contest since the 2006 Contest year and Lauren Hynde has been moderator since the 2005 year, both working very hard to keep the contest running as fairly and efficiently as possible. They have done this while also living their everyday lives, facing the same day to day problems each and every one of us have faced and still, scorecard templates are posted, scoring is updated, the contest is updated, and on and on and on...

They do this consistantly and, under the circumstances, rather pleasantly with very little thanks. I would like to say thank you Crimson Maiden and Lauren Hynde for your hours of work and dedication to the Survivor Contest. You are the ones who deserve congratulations for maintaining and shaping the chaos into a wonderful contest. Congratulations and thank you Crimson and Lauren.

MAP

PS: I would also like to thank Laurel and Manu for providing us with Literotica, where we have to opportunity to write, and, if we choose, compete in a variety of contests.

 

[wife2hotblk]

I second those Thank You's to Crimson Maiden, Lauren, Laurel and Manu. While I agree that such a contest will test any writer to the very limits (so yes, we all produce more than a bit of crap during the year), I think that it provides us with an excellent opportunity to form the discipline necessary to be a 'real' writer and it also forces us to stretch ourselves in ways we might not even want to. Should the day ever come when I had a book featured on Oprah (or whatever is HOT then), I for one will have not a moment's hesitation to announce that I became a writer thanks to the Survivor Contest on Literotica.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I think both the language and the application of the chapters rule is flawed and it seems it happened to enough people that it's not just me who misunderstood.

I want something clarified however. Since the rules claimed that we could have recurring charachters and we could reference previous events it kind of opened itself up to problems from the get go. The specific thing I would like to see addressed however is I think chaptered stories should be allowed to count as a SINGLE story. In the same way that Muses wasn't disqualified because not every chapter was 7500 words long, most were around five, but combined the story was over 90k. For whatever reason this year I've been getting long winded. Am I allowed to write a story, break it into chapters and still count it as a SINGLE story.

I ask because it seems that the spirit of the rule was that we didn't want people to write one big story and chop it into bits. We didn't want to discourage people from writing longer stories.

Any story that is part of a multi-chaptered story will not count for points (except for the allowed chains & novels/novellas). If you want to write a longer story, submit it as ONE submission.

I'm all for clarifying the language of the rule if anyone has suggestions, but it needs to be clear and concise.

 

[Darkniciad]

I don't see why a multi-chapter story shouldn't count as one story for scoring in the contest. It's no different than lumping them all together into a 20 Lit Page epic -- except that someone might actually read the thing in installments as opposed to running for his or her life when the page count goes off the scale at the bottom of page 1.

It's really no more difficult to explain than "No chaptered stories". If it's more than one chapter, it only counts for points once.

Unlike the themed contests, which would require extra work from Laurel to lump them together as a single entry in the contest, score isn't important in survivor. Once there's a ch.1 or pt.1 or ep.1 or bk.1, it counts for points, and everything thereafter is irrelevant to survivor.

Doesn't have any more "exploits" than the "no chapters" rule, and doesn't punish people for writing long stories and choosing to release them in a format that might actually be read.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Are you saying how it should be, Dark? As it is now, if there's more than one chapter or the moderators judge it to be so, none of the stories count for points- not even the first story.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't see why a multi-chapter story shouldn't count as one story for scoring in the contest. It's no different than lumping them all together into a 20 Lit Page epic -- except that someone might actually read the thing in installments as opposed to running for his or her life when the page count goes off the scale at the bottom of page 1.

Oh, the survivor contest has nothing to do with readability, Dark. It's just a matter of numbers.

 

[Darkniciad]

Oh, the survivor contest has nothing to do with readability, Dark. It's just a matter of numbers.

Not everybody in the contest is actually trying to win the thing, but that doesn't mean that the points are meaningless to them. No sense penalizing them because they want to write a long story in chapters, just as it subverts the spirit of the contest to let all the chapters count for points.

 

[sr71plt]

Not everybody in the contest is actually trying to win the thing, but that doesn't mean that the points are meaningless to them. No sense penalizing them because they want to write a long story in chapters, just as it subverts the spirit of the contest to let all the chapters count for points.

Oh, I agree. The contest should at least try to serve and reward a minimum amount of literary creativity. It doesn't seem to do even that, however.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Any story that is part of a multi-chaptered story will not count for points (except for the allowed chains & novels/novellas). If you want to write a longer story, submit it as ONE submission.

I'm all for clarifying the language of the rule if anyone has suggestions, but it needs to be clear and concise.

I think clarifying it so that instead of a multichaptered story will not count for points that a multichaptered story will count as a single story based on whatever the the initial chapter was. I don't really see how it could be exploited to let them count it as whatever chapter they want but I also understand that people don't see the problem until it's happened.

But I figure if a guy writes three chapters of a story or something that is too long to read in one sitting that they should be allowed to break it into chapters without penalty. I also feel that with the really flimsy for a lack of better wording format for "chapters" in this contest that a worst case scenario should be that multiple stories count as a single story.

My point is to unite the law in practice with the spirit of the law. As I understand it the spirit of the law was to prevent someone from writing on big story and chopping it into small portions and receiving hundreds of points. It was not to prevent someone from writing and epic and receiving the same amount of points as one story and I feel (and seem not to be alone) that it should be modified.