A reader asks about story scores & feedback

[fictionwriter]

But does it improve your craft?

My first couple of entries I wrote were very short and quick mini-stories that I wrote just to see what would happen. Surprisingly enough, I found out ,through feedback, that people cared about it and gave me suggestions to make improvements (like editing -who would have thought?). I also received some very much needed encouragement from a fellow author (thesoundandfury) that got me back to finish what I had started. As a result my stories have improved (if ratings mean anything: 4.31 to 4.36 to 4.57 to 4.61 to 4.74 ) in large part to this help and encouragement. And even the few negative e-mails I have received were valuable, in hindsight.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Holiday Contest

I finally got my holiday contest story sent in but it isn't posted yet. Is there a way I can find out it is faring, once it does get posted?

 

[LorriLove]

hiya

i've only written one story in my life so far, and that's still waiting to be accepted or rejected, probably the latter

if i don't get hit on big time in emails or have any nasty remarks made to me, i aint bothering again, no bloody fun otherwise

i read on literotica sometimes and i vote, but i vote as i feel the story needs to be voted, i'd never up vote or down vote a story for any reason other than the story itself and how it pleased or otherwise.

my editor tells me i'm allowed to vote for my own story, i'd never do that, ugh poor show or what if you have to vote for yourself.

lorri xxxxxxxxxx

 

[Guest]

Re: hiya

if i don't get hit on big time in emails or have any nasty remarks made to me, i aint bothering again, no bloody fun otherwise

Hey, Lovey, did your editor tell you to be sure and include a count photo in your author profile?

Perdita

 

[LorriLove]

Re: Re: hiya

Hey, Lovey, did your editor tell you to be sure and include a count photo in your author profile?

Perdita

giggle, yea the silly count told me hiya darling you ok today

 

[OldnotDead]

Re: hiya

i've only written one story in my life so far, and that's still waiting to be accepted or rejected, probably the latter

if i don't get hit on big time in emails or have any nasty remarks made to me, i aint bothering again, no bloody fun otherwise
. . .

my editor tells me i'm allowed to vote for my own story, i'd never do that, ugh poor show or what if you have to vote for yourself.

lorri xxxxxxxxxx

I will be most surprised to hear that your story got rejected. Anyone rejecting anything connected with that hot bod of yours would have to be dead above the neck and below the belt. (Is that close enough to being 'hit on' )

You're not 'allowed' to vote for your own story, you MUST vote. Haven't you heard the phrase 'Stand up and be counted?" It's especially important for you to do anything associated with counts. It's also one of the simple ways to counteract the trolls that will wreck your vote counts and you, Lori, don't want to wreck your counts, eh?

Are those enough count jokes? Or would you like to count on some more for your count?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Holiday Contest

I finally got my holiday contest story sent in but it isn't posted yet. Is there a way I can find out it is faring, once it does get posted?

As far as I know all you can do is check your own score by going to your submission page. You can't check other people's scores so you can't see how you're doing against everyone else.

The holiday stories have posted very quickly; most go up within 24 hours.

---dr.M.

 

[Dirt Man]

Colleen, interesting point. Raises something else that Im curious about though - the constructiveness of constructive criticism.

Although I write for a living, I don't call myself a writer. In fact, I'm one of the few advertising writers who will admit that selling swampland is what I'm good at; I can't finish a limerick if it doesn't have a client's product in it. (Although, with apologies to the previous poster, I have been told i write a respectable Stroker over in SRP. We don't have to write endings, though, so those don't count.)



Still, I understand the importance of hearing positive feedback to give you the will to keep going; and the necessity of negative feedback to help you learn what sells.

But does it improve your craft? I know I"m better at what I do than I was a long time ago, and that part of what's made me better is learning not to confuse "my" writing with the product I'm paid for: writing that meets someone else's expectations and/or motivates people to consider a purchase.

The distinction I'm clumsily trying to make is that I've never felt that my craft was improved by any criticism other than a select group of mentors, people who were successful in the business. Most criticism has been constructive in the sense that it toughened my armor (useful) and taught me to lower my sites and "talk down" to people. Also useful. But not a tool for improvement.

I guess I'm asking a philosophical question of those of you who put your egos on the line not to pay the mortgage, which is the only reason I do it, but out of love of writing: do people's likes and dislikes have any direct relationship to the quality of your work? If lots of people don't like a sad or bittersweet ending, does that discourage you from writing that way in the futue? Do you find yourself fighting the urge to give the public what it wants? Does it become more difficult to write a bitter ending the next time, even though it seems right?

Case in point: Fatal Attraction was test-marketed with two different endings: the risky ending, where the crazy bitch kills herself and frames Michael Douglas for her murder; and the ending that "won," where the bitch gets what's coming to her. I'm surprised they even bothered to test it - Could anyone doubt which ending a few hundred people would vote for?

Does it make it a better movie?

And why am I asking these questions when I should have left for the office already? And what do you mean it's 'pining for the fjords'? You've nailed its bloody feet to the perch!

The greatest barb of all wrote: "To thine own self be true." I write for myself, but I edit for the readers. Once upon a time, when I was new here, I cared a great deal about the votes each of my stories were averaging, and the amount of feedback that they instilled in the readers who read them. Once I realized that none of my stories posted here would ever win any of the contests I stopped worrying about anything. I mean why bother if the deck is stacked against you to start with. (I write mostly graphic porno for lit.) At one time I even considered leaving Literotica entirely. But that would have been selfish of me as I seem to have a fan base here that I was unaware of until recently. And also, since all of my stories are rated above 4.0, and rise dramatically after the contest they were qualified for is over I decided to stick around. Not bragging here, just being candid. Am I happy that none of my stories are labled H, E, or W? No. But I am satisfied with what they do get here at Lit.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[shereads]

Re: Lo all

Supercilious wanker!!

I'd read that.

 

[raphy]

Good thread, shereads.

I found lit years ago - Probably close to the 5 years that it's been running. I did nothing but read stories until 6 months ago, when I delurked on the forums. When I'm decrying those stroke-fans that are in search of a quick wank, my tongue is always firmly in my cheek, because I used to be one - And sometimes still am.

As an posting author on lit, I actually don't much care about my feedback or my votes. It takes me all of about 25 to 30 minutes to write 1500 words of smut, and I just throw it out for general consumption. People read it, cool. People don't, that's cool too. People wanna tell me that they've read it, cool. If not, I'll live.

Raph, who's writing has always been a pastime and writing for lit is a pastime of a pastime.

 

[LorriLove]

Re: Re: hiya

I will be most surprised to hear that your story got rejected. Anyone rejecting anything connected with that hot bod of yours would have to be dead above the neck and below the belt. (Is that close enough to being 'hit on' )

You're not 'allowed' to vote for your own story, you MUST vote. Haven't you heard the phrase 'Stand up and be counted?" It's especially important for you to do anything associated with counts. It's also one of the simple ways to counteract the trolls that will wreck your vote counts and you, Lori, don't want to wreck your counts, eh?

Are those enough count jokes? Or would you like to count on some more for your count?

i knew i could count on you to keep it up darling, fraid the count's already wrecked though years of abuse

 

[whispering_surrender]

Re: Lo all

I have to admit. I've been writing like this for years, and just recently (6 months or so) got up the nerve to let anyone else read what I wrote. I wrote for myself and for my own peace of mind. I posted here, once I got over the damp palms bit, to let others enjoy it. So I didn't much care about the votes. If you like it GREAT. If you don't...*points to the backclick button*.

However, having recently posted in the holiday contest...I am ashamed to say, I've checked my rating more for this one than the other two combined. *blush* So perhaps that do matter to me...just a tiny, tiny bit. *grin*

Whisper

Ps.

I too am still waiting for the first indecent proposal in feedback.

pops

You wanted me to put them in feedback???

 

[dr_mabeuse]

When your stories rate, say, less than a 4, you realize how screwed-up the whole voting system is. When your stories rate above that, you tend to realize how--flawed though it is--the rating system is still a pretty fair indicator of story quality...

Okay, I'm kidding, but not by much. I try not to pay attention to votes, but it's hard not to. I had one story that was briefly at the top of its category, and I was surprised and disconcerted at how good that made me feel. So I no longer deceive myself by saying that votes don't matter. If I have a story that rates well below my usual average, I wonder about it, and it hurts, because obviously I failed to connect somewhere.

On the other hand, would I change my style for the ratiings' sake? No. All I can do is try and please myself. For me, though, a big part of pleasing myself is in the communication: I have to know that people understand what I'm trying to say, that I'm getting across. The most gratifying feedback I get is the stuff that tells me I've succeeded in that.

---dr.M.

 

[Dirt Man]

They just posted my holiday story..

40 views, and 3 votes. Well, I knew I was hard pressed when I entered a non-erotic story. LOL

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[raphy]

As for whether constructive criticism improves my writing? It depends on what the criticism is about.

Feedback and critiques during the editing phase improve that specific story, from a plot perspective.

Plot and character development are two of the areas that I *will* accept critique on. Style is one that I (as a rule) don't. I write in a specific style, and it's *my* style, and I don't think anyone except me really has the ability to comment on whether it's right or wrong.

Feedback once the story's done and submitted, that's not hugely influential on me. It's nice to read positive feedback, of course, and unless the negative feedback is concerning something factual, like a grammatical error, I tend to ignore it and put it down to a difference of opinion about writing style and manner.

I write the stories that I like to read, in the style that I like to read them. Sometimes I get lucky and other people like them.

Them's the breaks.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Reader and votes

I wish I culd attract more readers who would vote more often. The usual title of a story of mine is something like "I Call on Barbara", but that is not a title that is going to attract people and it is listed as "Erotic Couplings", which is where it belongs. If I had given it a name like "Me and Barbara Fuck Like Minks" it might have gotten more notice but my stories are a series and I don't like to change that. I will try to write sexier descriptions but sometimes they don't post the one I include. Would I be able to change the descriptions of stories that are already posted? One in particular just chases people away.

I also wish more people would vote and/or send feedback. Preferably both. I have found that positive feedback, even is not particularly informative, helps me write more and better. As it is, only about .1% of readers vote on my stories, not even that many sometimes.

 

[Boota]

You can't go by the votes overall to judge the quality of your writing. I found that out this weekend. My brother's girlfriend read my story and said she really liked it. But she gave me a one because I used the word pussy. LOL.

 

[Dirt Man]

126 views, and 6 votes now. LOL I may never submit another non-erotic story after this. Oh well, it is a gift to all of you.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[Boxlicker101]

But she gave me a one because I used the word pussy.

How can anybody object to the word "pussy" in an erotic story? Unless she thought you should have said "cunt". Possibly she is a dog lover and thought you were writing about a cat.

 

[shereads]

All I can do is try and please myself.

I'd like to see that.

I have to know that people understand what I'm trying to say, that I'm getting across. The most gratifying feedback I get is the stuff that tells me I've succeeded in that.

But if you succeed really, really well, we can't always type.

 

[shereads]

126 views, and 6 votes now. LOL I may never submit another non-erotic story after this. Oh well, it is a gift to all of you.

See my comment to Dr. Mabeuse. Maybe the 120 suffered from "trembling hands" syndrome.

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

I dearly love feedback. Mail comes in and sits in my box
until I decide to read mail. It doesn't take me out of
composing a story. Aside from totally off-the-wall
criticism, I love all comments. The most important
comment I received from Lit told me that one story was
posted with the editor's comments still in it. Ouch!!
I'd have preferred that not being true, but the notice was
incredibly helpful.

 

[reohoko]

I know the authors take their "scores" seriously, but is that any way to judge the value of your work?

I don't know about everyone else, but I had to stop taking scores seriously. Heck, lately they seem to jump up and down constantly. Speaking for myself I would also like to mention, there are contests, you can win a lot of money - well a little money that feels like a lot of someone is asking for around that amount to let you keep your gas turned on.

I would like to win, have learned that I don't want to turn it into a popularity contest to do it though. I don't care about the prestige that goes with winning, I need the money or I wouldn't look at the scores ever. For the most part, I have two hot stories, so for fame I am happy. I write because I really do enjoy it, and one day want to be really good at it. If you "see" me watching scores, it means I am low on cash and someone has been calling and hollering at me that they want cash.

That simple, for me.

HUGS HUGS HUGS

 

[Boota]

Re: But she gave me a one because I used the word pussy.

How can anybody object to the word "pussy" in an erotic story? Unless she thought you should have said "cunt". Possibly she is a dog lover and thought you were writing about a cat.

That's what I was wondering. LOL. I couldn't believe that she would even read an erotic story and be bothered by one of the more common words used in the writing style. She is really a weird girl sometimes. No rhyme or reason, just a pure hatred for that word.

 

[maggie2002]

Feedback and votes

When it comes to feedback, they come in all shapes and forms. I get flowery praise, I get pitch dark hate-mail, I get constructive critisism and I get "Hi, good story. Can you write one about my mom?". What I don't get is any indecent proposals, still waiting for those. Of course, getting constructive feedback is the best, but I take what I can get.

Had to reply when I read this and then found several more NO indecent proposals. Try writing for the mature audience. I get them with almost every storylol!

Now on to feedback. I have enough problems of my own with puncuation and grammer and tenses that I would never critique someone else. I also would have to th ink hard and long to suggest a different beginning or ending. That is their creation. I would and have said Great story , held my attention if I had to say anything it would be i.e. my pet peeve is people who write anal scenes and the man does one of two things
1. He pulls out of her anal passage and finishes up in her vagina.
2. He spits or runs his member up and down her wetness and then with no other preparation rams and they always ram it in to this deep dark hot tight place.

Give me a break and the reason I get upset is the average reader who reading this enough believes this is enough. I challange anyone who writes it to give it a try bet they don't do it twice and the first one will make your partner sick no matter how clean they were.
I also might if I see a major typo or a repeated portion which happens once in a while point it out only because I know that sometime authors don't see the trees for the forest.

Voting mostly fives because I have a tendency to read only areas of interest and authors I have come to admire. I.e. Master "V" Sandman, Katherine English and several others. I do when I have time try new authors and find sometimes I have located splendid surprises. IF you feel you have to vote one to three wouldn't it be better to write a note and explain I liked your story but it needs (whatever) then it would earn the votes it deserves. ;-) Now that's helpful or I had to quit reading because?

O.K. that's it for me I have several stories here and one in the contest to feel free to read and tell me what your thinking I can use all the help I get.