A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

[serijules]

This is so sad to me, so fucking senseless.

Isn't it? Sad that I let it affect me that much, but I do.

Even sadder is the fear to go to the gym because all the athletic people look at you like you are intruding on "their" space, you fat faker! I love to do the river walking at my local community center, it doesn't bother my knees, I can hide my fat in the water and not feel so exposed, and it's good, solid exercise. I find myself being extremely obsessive about scoping out the best times to go work out though. Can't be after school hours because all the nasty teenage girls are there. Can't be after 5 because all the athletic people are there. I don't have time in the morning as I work.

Half the time I don't go as often as I would like to because I'm terrified of all those people making fun of me. I can read lips across a room, remember. I know what people are saying even if I'm not within "hearing" range.

All of you folks out there who have issues with fat people and like to make assumptions and judgements? Ever consider that you actually CONTRIBUTE to the problem by making things like treating yourself after a big loss or working out an opportunity to assume shit and make fun of people?

The other day I was at the grocery and had my cart full of chips, dips and cookies. I was shopping for my mom, she was in charge of the "fun snacks" at work for a party. Another co-worker was in charge of the healthy stuff, the veggies and whatnot. So here I am, doing my mom a favour by picking up this stuff for her and the lady in front of me glances in my cart, glances at me and rolls her eyes.

Get off your high horses people. Your assumptions and comments make you look like a bigger ass than my ass actually IS!

 

[the captians wench]

in the past, curvy women were the norm, yes, but not the hugely overweight people that we see everywhere today. that has never been the desired figure of any time.

i don't think that anyone is saying that the superskinny model types are anything but a small minority who went overboard for the job. holding them up as a reason for not losing weight is taking it a bit far.

my post was my honest view, certainly not politically correct in this say nothing, do nothing world. a whole lot of problems in this world could be fixed if people were not now so discouraged from speaking unpalatable truths.

My point was more, what is normal? and what really is healthy?

i dont' think that there can be a real answer to that because we all have our own standards and preferences. Even medical professionals have admited that the standards they have made are based on the idea that they like thiner women.

standards change, what people view as sexy changes. At one time every woman painted had pudge, now every woman photograghed doesn't. Maybe next centry they'll go in a totally different way and every woman holograghed will be a size 26. *shrug*

And I'm not saying super thin modles are an excuse for not loosing weight. What I am saying is I wonder how many gained weight with that introduction along with how many went underweight.

So, what is the ideal size this decade? What's average? and what should average be? and when do we join the fat club, the really fat club or the OMG IT'S TOUCHING ME club?

 

[Netzach]

Isn't it? Sad that I let it affect me that much, but I do.

Even sadder is the fear to go to the gym because all the athletic people look at you like you are intruding on "their" space, you fat faker! I love to do the river walking at my local community center, it doesn't bother my knees, I can hide my fat in the water and not feel so exposed, and it's good, solid exercise. I find myself being extremely obsessive about scoping out the best times to go work out though. Can't be after school hours because all the nasty teenage girls are there. Can't be after 5 because all the athletic people are there. I don't have time in the morning as I work.

Half the time I don't go as often as I would like to because I'm terrified of all those people making fun of me. I can read lips across a room, remember. I know what people are saying even if I'm not within "hearing" range.

All of you folks out there who have issues with fat people and like to make assumptions and judgements? Ever consider that you actually CONTRIBUTE to the problem by making things like treating yourself after a big loss or working out an opportunity to assume shit and make fun of people?

The other day I was at the grocery and had my cart full of chips, dips and cookies. I was shopping for my mom, she was in charge of the "fun snacks" at work for a party. Another co-worker was in charge of the healthy stuff, the veggies and whatnot. So here I am, doing my mom a favour by picking up this stuff for her and the lady in front of me glances in my cart, glances at me and rolls her eyes.

Get off your high horses people. Your assumptions and comments make you look like a bigger ass than my ass actually IS!

I have a weird suggestion - do you have a "dungeon" gym anywhere? A tough-guy gym?

I used to work out and train with big stinky male weightlifters because I had a social connection to them and the gym and got a price break. I've never been in a LESS judgemental atmosphere in my life, and I say this as a very out of shape person. The cliche of the guy screaming "you fat fuck 25 more, PUSSY!" isn't necessarily all you'll find. The guys were NICE to me and filled with better advice about diet and excercise than anywhere I've been. My pussy was enough of a novelty that my fat ass was "well she's working on it, good for her."

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You're gonna hate me, but you're assuming there's even a park. Or that you and/or your kid aren't going to get shot using it.

It's generally an OK assumption, but in some places not. Weirdly designed suburbs and completely blighted neighborhoods are probably, and I'm not an urban planner, but probably some of the fastest-growing locations. I have a strong hunch that there IS a higher concentration of newly obese there than elsewhere.

OK. I officially give up. Netz has hereby exonerated the parents of obese children single-handedly!

I hope you're proud.

 

[Harmony_1985]

OK. I officially give up. Netz has hereby exonerated the parents of obese children single-handedly!

I hope you're proud.

I understand what Netz is saying honey. We live in a difference society to the Americans, thats the difference.

 

[serijules]

I have a weird suggestion - do you have a "dungeon" gym anywhere? A tough-guy gym?

I used to work out and train with big stinky male weightlifters because I had a social connection to them and the gym and got a price break. I've never been in a LESS judgemental atmosphere in my life, and I say this as a very out of shape person. The cliche of the guy screaming "you fat fuck 25 more, PUSSY!" isn't necessarily all you'll find. The guys were NICE to me and filled with better advice about diet and excercise than anywhere I've been. My pussy was enough of a novelty that my fat ass was "well she's working on it, good for her."

There is only one gym here believe it or not. When the community was raising money for the community center, the city bought out the local gym so that the community center would be the ONLY gym there and force people to use it. The other gym had various rooms and whatnot, a tough guy area included (although it had a huge window that looked out into the street...ack!). It had no pool though and because of knee problems (unrelated to my weight, thank you very much) I can only do water activity. So I'm kind of stuck there. It's a fantastic facility, I just wish I could make the other people that go there....not go there. heh

I just heard the other day about one of the personal trainers that used to be very overweight and is now very fit. He is a motivational speaker. I'm going to hook up with him and ask him to be my "protector" so to speak. He's been there. He's done that. He knows how I feel. I'm looking forward to meeting him and hoping to gain some confidence from him.

 

[Netzach]

OK. I officially give up. Netz has hereby exonerated the parents of obese children single-handedly!

I hope you're proud.

Nah, it depends.

"I'm gonna get shot at" you get a pass.

"What, crackers are good for you and he LIKES video games better" no pass.

 

[Netzach]

There is only one gym here believe it or not. When the community was raising money for the community center, the city bought out the local gym so that the community center would be the ONLY gym there and force people to use it. The other gym had various rooms and whatnot, a tough guy area included (although it had a huge window that looked out into the street...ack!). It had no pool though and because of knee problems (unrelated to my weight, thank you very much) I can only do water activity. So I'm kind of stuck there. It's a fantastic facility, I just wish I could make the other people that go there....not go there. heh

I just heard the other day about one of the personal trainers that used to be very overweight and is now very fit. He is a motivational speaker. I'm going to hook up with him and ask him to be my "protector" so to speak. He's been there. He's done that. He knows how I feel. I'm looking forward to meeting him and hoping to gain some confidence from him.

Awesome. Just having that one person who relates to you does wonders! I bet it's going to help you a lot to have one person watching your back a bit.

 

[Netzach]

I understand what Netz is saying honey. We live in a difference society to the Americans, thats the difference.

To an extent.

Lazy fuckers exist. Fat, thin, American, British - you name it.

The thing that bears saying, I think is that there's often - not ALWAYS but often, a lot more to the picture that doesn't emerge or when it emerges it's dismissed as irrelevant by people who don't have any experience with the phenomenon.

I believe that people are the best experts on their own lives - if you are trying to deal with obesity, LISTENING to the narratives of the obese might be a good start rather than imposing your collective cultural fantasies and assumptions onto them.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I understand what Netz is saying honey. We live in a difference society to the Americans, thats the difference.

I know that, I do get it.

The point I was trying to make is that if a kid is getting obese you don't just sit on your ass and make loads of excuses. You do something.

Besides, if a kid thinks they're going to get shot, they're not going to stand still, right? Just ask Jacko.

 

[serijules]

My cousin has struggled with her weight all her life. She's going really well now, has slimmed down and looks fantastic.

Her oldest daughter is 19 and thin, gorgeous, etc. Must have gotten dads genes.

Her second daughter (different father) is very very overweight. I'm positive she gets made fun of on a constant basis.

Her mom kind of confuses me though. I always notice at family functions that Aa goes right for the dessert table and is back and forth to it all evening long, not touching the actual supper. Mom is standing right there and does nothing to discourage her. She's only hrm, I think 10 or 12 now but this has been going on for years. All the other parents limit their kids and insist they eat supper first, even though the rest of the kids are normal weight, simply because that much sugar isn't good for you. Seeing how mom has BEEN there, she knows what it's like to grow up fat and knows what it's like to have an older, thin, perfect sister....I'm always amazed she doesn't do more to help Aa out. It really bothers me.

There is a point yes, where being too supportive is not a good thing at all. I was a fat kid too, but mom always encouraged me to eat well and I was VERY active. In my case, eating well and activity didn't help me because I actually DID/DO have health issues that prevent me from losing weight in a normal fashion, but at least mom tried without going to the extreme of making me a closet eater for fear of her wrath or something like that.

I'm just babbling, I have no point here LOL

 

[incubus'_sub]

netz, that's quite possible. we're becoming very americanized over here in weight and attitude.

btw, does the fact that we've recently found out that the surgery for the cancer in my spinal cord has caused my disabilities to be permanent and incubus now has many extra responsibilities count as a traumatic enough event in his life? well, it was and he's still not smoking more than a pack a week. i'm just saying well done to him.

 

[WriterDom]

At some point things changed. Maybe it has to do with all the indoor computer games and cable tv and the internet. Maybe the fear factor of someone taking a child.

But I grew up in a world where all the kids were outside playing until dark. Going swimming. Playing all the sports in season. Both in an organized way and in the neighborhood. Walking as far into the woods as our legs would take us. We played as an entire neighborhood together and I just don't see kids doing that anymore.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I know that, I do get it.

The point I was trying to make is that if a kid is getting obese you don't just sit on your ass and make loads of excuses. You do something.

Besides, if a kid thinks they're going to get shot, they're not going to stand still, right? Just ask Jacko.

I like it when people say "ass" or "shit" instead of arse and shite.

What the hell are those words, anyway? I don't think they're real words.

 

[the captians wench]

Awesome. Just having that one person who relates to you does wonders! I bet it's going to help you a lot to have one person watching your back a bit.

It really is amazing what a difference that makes.

I have really great will power when it comes to most things, but some things I need help with. This is when I pull the "help a subbie out" card on either Jounar or one of the other domly types in my life or all of the above. Jounar takes the aproach, "if it's important to her, it's important to me", and I really like that. If I need to crack down on my diet, he'll step in, now it's a rule and there will be consiquences to not following (not to mention the fact that I get very upset from disapointing him). Same goes with being active, saving money, paying bills, or anything else that I may need help with. My stateside domly type and I used to joke "a happy pet gives better head".

Mom and I also are big supporters of each other. We help each other to be more active teaming up on things like walking and swimming. I also help her to learn the better eating habbits, and she helps me to enjoy rewards.

Going from a 24+ to a 16 was pretty easy, the weight just flew off. Now that it has slowed down it's very frusterating and it helps to have a chearleader or 3 in your corner.

 

[A Desert Rose]

At some point things changed. Maybe it has to do with all the indoor computer games and cable tv and the internet. Maybe the fear factor of someone taking a child.

But I grew up in a world where all the kids were outside playing until dark. Going swimming. Playing all the sports in season. Both in an organized way and in the neighborhood. Walking as far into the woods as our legs would take us. We played as an entire neighborhood together and I just don't see kids doing that anymore.

And you came in when the street lights came on... 'member?

Shit we're old.... yea and that means you too!

 

[Netzach]

My cousin has struggled with her weight all her life. She's going really well now, has slimmed down and looks fantastic.

Her oldest daughter is 19 and thin, gorgeous, etc. Must have gotten dads genes.

Her second daughter (different father) is very very overweight. I'm positive she gets made fun of on a constant basis.

Her mom kind of confuses me though. I always notice at family functions that Aa goes right for the dessert table and is back and forth to it all evening long, not touching the actual supper. Mom is standing right there and does nothing to discourage her. She's only hrm, I think 10 or 12 now but this has been going on for years. All the other parents limit their kids and insist they eat supper first, even though the rest of the kids are normal weight, simply because that much sugar isn't good for you. Seeing how mom has BEEN there, she knows what it's like to grow up fat and knows what it's like to have an older, thin, perfect sister....I'm always amazed she doesn't do more to help Aa out. It really bothers me.

There is a point yes, where being too supportive is not a good thing at all. I was a fat kid too, but mom always encouraged me to eat well and I was VERY active. In my case, eating well and activity didn't help me because I actually DID/DO have health issues that prevent me from losing weight in a normal fashion, but at least mom tried without going to the extreme of making me a closet eater for fear of her wrath or something like that.

I'm just babbling, I have no point here LOL

That's crappy. It's a recipe for diabetes for one thing, if not more. More babble - they did studies in the 80's in lancet on CD patients - my sweet tooth is no novelty, apparently we find sweet taste up to 100 times what other people find "too sweet" to be pleasant. One of the worst things for us? Refined sugar. It's an interesting thing - the fact that digestive disorders are on the rise along WITH the rise of corn syrup in everything known to man.

My family would chase me around with fruit and real food before letting me have any dessert - that just seems normal to me, I can't imagine not parenting like that.

I was fit while I was a New Yorker in her native land. We really do walk everywhere. There really is nowhere to walk here other than around the lakes. I live in one place where I have a good 1.5 mile hike to the grocery store and I use it to get a backpack of food and go back or a starbucks and back.

 

[incubus'_sub]

adr, i like it too. shite annoys the hell out of me.

 

[A Desert Rose]

netz, that's quite possible. we're becoming very americanized over here in weight and attitude.

btw, does the fact that we've recently found out that the surgery for the cancer in my spinal cord has caused my disabilities to be permanent and incubus now has many extra responsibilities count as a traumatic enough event in his life? well, it was and he's still not smoking more than a pack a week. i'm just saying well done to him.

And I'm sorry to read this. I think about you and how you're doing, daily. How you feed all those creatures on your property is a marvel to me, by itself. ;-) And how very good Incubus is to provide ways for you to accomplish things as easily as is possible, when he's gone so much of the time.

I'm happy that he is able to cut his smoking back so far, too.

 

[Netzach]

At some point things changed. Maybe it has to do with all the indoor computer games and cable tv and the internet. Maybe the fear factor of someone taking a child.

But I grew up in a world where all the kids were outside playing until dark. Going swimming. Playing all the sports in season. Both in an organized way and in the neighborhood. Walking as far into the woods as our legs would take us. We played as an entire neighborhood together and I just don't see kids doing that anymore.

This is something I was reading about, it was actually an academic article on just this.

Basically you nailed it. The whole "boy exploratory" outdoor play - adventurer, superhero, Cowboys and Indians - it has gone virtual. Maybe it's had to because things are that dangerous. Maybe people just THINK they're that dangerous - maybe some combo of the two.

But the structure of things like WOW, where you "explore a world" are filling that psychological niche.

 

[Netzach]

netz, that's quite possible. we're becoming very americanized over here in weight and attitude.

btw, does the fact that we've recently found out that the surgery for the cancer in my spinal cord has caused my disabilities to be permanent and incubus now has many extra responsibilities count as a traumatic enough event in his life? well, it was and he's still not smoking more than a pack a week. i'm just saying well done to him.

Yes it does. I am sorry about your health, and sorry for the hurtful nature of my response there. I do think that addictions aren't generally wrangle-able like that and food addiction is just as real as any other. I watched my stepfather drink himself to death convinced along with my mother that it was "just a little" every night.

If anything this is an example of what I meant though, that there is often more to any story - you don't like being crowded on a plane, how do you know that person isn't Dove's sister?

I don't like screaming children, how do I know they're not autistic?

 

[A Desert Rose]

I'm going to do a serijules (lol) and babble...

Back in the dark, dark ages, before the computer and wikipedia, but after the printing press, when I was in high school...

We had to actually go to a LIBRARY and look in BOOKS and ENCYCLOPEDIAS and TAKE NOTES with PAPER and PENCIL in order to write an essay, on a typewriter or in long hand (if you don't know what either of those 2 terms are then don't bother to read on) on some ancient and what we thought was an unneccessary topic that would never help us in the 'real world' of adult life, by teachers who we thought were totally clueless about what we really needed to know in the 'real world' of adult life.

Now high school students go to wiki or google, copy, paste, rewrite or paraphrase it a bit, put their name on it, print it out and turn it in.

I think there's a lot of learning and retaining that goes into actually looking it up, reading it, taking notes and then writing it again in formal form. But that's just me.

Excerise your brain for a change.

 

[Netzach]

I'm going to do a serijules (lol) and babble...

Back in the dark, dark ages, before the computer and wikipedia, but after the printing press, when I was in high school...

We had to actually go to a LIBRARY and look in BOOKS and ENCYCLOPEDIAS and TAKE NOTES with PAPER and PENCIL in order to write an essay, on a typewriter or in long hand (if you don't know what either of those 2 terms are then don't bother to read on) on some ancient and what we thought was an unneccessary topic that would never help us in the 'real world' of adult life, by teachers who we thought were totally clueless about what we really needed to know in the 'real world' of adult life.

Now high school students go to wiki or google, copy, paste, rewrite or paraphrase it a bit, put their name on it, print it out and turn it in.

I think there's a lot of learning and retaining that goes into actually looking it up, reading it, taking notes and then writing it again in formal form. But that's just me.

Excerise your brain for a change.

Hey I did all that. The crossover is recent! Things are moving fast.

Some do that.

I just looked up some Tech fair winning projects though and they're things like:
"Zero Impact House Design Contest"

There are always smart nerds. They just have more tools now.

 

[cherokee_dove]

beachgurl2, i agree with what you've said on just about every point. i don't want to offend anyone either hence my reluctance to join the discussion earlier.

here, in australia, obese people far outnumber the slenders at any kink gathering i've been to or heard about firsthand. some of them are really great people, others not, so i guess being fat doesn't automatically give you a personality. these people are there to play and it has been our observation that mostly it's desperation rather than true interest in kink that brings them there. although the people here do share a true interest i'm guessing that the majority of members are overweight. yet every time that this question is asked, most posters say oh, no.

my view on a few other points. obese people are beginning to see themselves as normal, due of course to the huge increase in obese people. it is not normal to be obese.

apart from a minority who suffer real illnesses, and we do have some here, a very large percentage of the obese eat too much, usually stating loudly and often how little they consume. brain chemicals, rampant hormones, big bones, genetics, depression, the list of excuses goes on and on and as we've seen are strongly defended and accepted as genuine by other obese people as being reasonable causes of obesity. mostly it's caused by eating too much for your level of activity. that's why stomach banding surgery is so successful. it stops the constant ingestion of too much food. it doesn't change genetics, big bones or depression but hey, the weight falls off. amazing.

these days people ARE fat AT you, spilling themselves over you on planes, busses, trains, theatres, shops, footpaths, everywhere that was built for normal sized people before supersized people became the new "norm".

i do believe that it's time that obese people were called on it without pulling the punches, same as with smokers, alcoholics, junkies. your obesity IS impacting on my life in just the same way. it costs a fortune to keep you alive with all the preventative diseases you give yourselves.

fat is not attractive to most people, even other fatties. how often do we hear and read "i love him/her anyway". that's tolerance and acceptance not oh i'm thrilled that my partner is too fat. ok, i know that there are some who are feeders but it too is a minority.

and to top it all off, i can't stand to watch obese people shovel it in in restaurants either. it's revolting, particularly when they're teaching their fat kids to do the same.

if your kids are fat, do something about it. feed them less, make them move. less stress about their delicate little minds and more action about their pudgy bodies will be better for them for their entire lives.

ok, harsh i know and doesn't take into account socio economic factors, the price of oil or global bloody warming. too much means too fat. stop excusing it, bleating about it, pretending you don't even care and do something about it.

You don't want to offend anyone? Haha. Your whole post is an offense. You put down people you know nothing about, and have pissed me off the deep end!

So instead of a severe "flaming", only thing i am going to say is "permanently iggied"; which to me is a first.

 

[serijules]

I'm going to do a serijules (lol) and babble...

You did well, my young padawan...