A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

[incubus'_sub]

yes, well, incubus dark very recently went from being a 2 pack a day smoker to less than 1 pack a week. he's also watching his food intake now as he shares my preference for a more slender figure. hard, yes. do able, yes.

 

[Etoile]

beachgurl2, i agree with what you've said on just about every point. i don't want to offend anyone either hence my reluctance to join the discussion earlier.

here, in australia, obese people far outnumber the slenders at any kink gathering i've been to or heard about firsthand. some of them are really great people, others not, so i guess being fat doesn't automatically give you a personality. these people are there to play and it has been our observation that mostly it's desperation rather than true interest in kink that brings them there. although the people here do share a true interest i'm guessing that the majority of members are overweight. yet every time that this question is asked, most posters say oh, no.

my view on a few other points. obese people are beginning to see themselves as normal, due of course to the huge increase in obese people. it is not normal to be obese.

apart from a minority who suffer real illnesses, and we do have some here, a very large percentage of the obese eat too much, usually stating loudly and often how little they consume. brain chemicals, rampant hormones, big bones, genetics, depression, the list of excuses goes on and on and as we've seen are strongly defended and accepted as genuine by other obese people as being reasonable causes of obesity. mostly it's caused by eating too much for your level of activity. that's why stomach banding surgery is so successful. it stops the constant ingestion of too much food. it doesn't change genetics, big bones or depression but hey, the weight falls off. amazing.

these days people ARE fat AT you, spilling themselves over you on planes, busses, trains, theatres, shops, footpaths, everywhere that was built for normal sized people before supersized people became the new "norm".

i do believe that it's time that obese people were called on it without pulling the punches, same as with smokers, alcoholics, junkies. your obesity IS impacting on my life in just the same way. it costs a fortune to keep you alive with all the preventative diseases you give yourselves.

fat is not attractive to most people, even other fatties. how often do we hear and read "i love him/her anyway". that's tolerance and acceptance not oh i'm thrilled that my partner is too fat. ok, i know that there are some who are feeders but it too is a minority.

and to top it all off, i can't stand to watch obese people shovel it in in restaurants either. it's revolting, particularly when they're teaching their fat kids to do the same.

if your kids are fat, do something about it. feed them less, make them move. less stress about their delicate little minds and more action about their pudgy bodies will be better for them for their entire lives.

ok, harsh i know and doesn't take into account socio economic factors, the price of oil or global bloody warming. too much means too fat. stop excusing it, bleating about it, pretending you don't even care and do something about it.

Wow. That's extremely hateful. You didn't dress it up at all.

 

[the captians wench]

In general we all agree that the fat issue is a growing epidemic of sorts.

What my question is now, after the MM introduction, is has fat really become the new norm?

If you look through history, it's the curvy women who were considered beautiful. Look at paintings and you'll see that little pudge sticking out on nearly every woman. A little meat was good.

But for at least as long as I've been alive, what we consider beautiful now are the very (some times unhealthy looking) slinder run way modles. Stick straight figures, and very little to them anywhere.

If for centries we've been praising the robust women for their natural beauty, why is it all of a sudden they are just fat?

Now I'm not saying that there isn't an issue, there is. I know I'm heavy, even would go as far to say as I'm heavier than I ideally should be, but I don't believe that's any healthier than me going from one eating disorder to another to get to a size 4 (or hell even a size 6 or 8).

And while we're at it, I'm curious to know if when our ideal weight became 110lbs for a 5'6" women, did eating disorders rize, anirexia, boliemia and overeating alike.

I'm an emotional eater. I eat when I'm excited, I eat when I'm sad, I eat when I'm depressed, I eat to celebrate, so on and so on. That is as much an eating disorder as my cousin who would starve herself so keep under 100lbs (at 5'5"). It took the better part of 2 years for me to tame that. I started keeping carrot sticks in the apt insted of chips and icecream for when those emotional times hit. It's something that I still struggle with and I will struggle with for the rest of my life. Even tho I have adopted good eating habbits, those wires are still there for the bad ones and they will never go away. Just as my cousin now has to keep on her gaurd and doesn't own a scale so she won't go back to starving herself.

Whether it's eating too much, or not enough, it's not good, but we seem to glamorfy the latter and condem the former. Neigher is healthy, so if we are talking about weight with in the lifestyle, or in society in general even, why don't we discuss the lack of "middlers" those who are imbetween the seriously slim and seriously fat, rather than focasing on one or the other.

And who ever thinks chemical imbalances don't mean fuck to weight. Fuck you. Seriously, our bodies are one huge chemical reaction. Why the fuck would you think that one imbalance to that reaction wouldn't have a reaction to the entire system? Is it because you don't like to look at this particular one? Well then either stay the fuck home or pluck your eyes out because my fat ass is not going to hide away, or starve myself, or stress, or not show my fat ass to the world just because you don't think I'm disguesting. The whole reason Jounar and I met was from my pic thread, and I was a lot bigger then. He liked what he saw then, and he likes what he sees now, and he even worries about me wanting to loose too much weight. If I'm happy with what size I am, then he's happy. And that's not about settling, it's about me being happy with who i am, and him loving that.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

We used to have this interesting form of social torment in school called Phys ed. But you see, cuts and all. They may get it once a week in some places or not at all. I know it's probably hard to fathom schools sucking that badly - I can't imagine it's that bad in the UK yet. It IS the job of basic public education to include mind/body/service or ethics IMO.

I had it 5 days a week as a small child, danced modern 3 times a week in HS as soon as I could do that in lieu of phys ed - fancy private scholarship has its perks.

What time do you suggest someone like nh "make her kids move around" with a 6:30 - 8 pm schedule? Maybe 5 am?

Again, I really can't convey what the average lower middle class workweek is here. If people were subjected to it in other countries they would riot. You have bank holidays. We have labor day. DAY. When the Japanese were working like lunatics and on top of the economic universe, they even had "let's all do calisthenics!" starts to the day, every day, altogether now, I'm sure rida will correct me if this wasn't normal and my shitty "how to nagivate the business climate of Japan for businesspeople" book is wrong on this...we MIGHT put in a gym and only the top level has time to use it.

I highlighted that section of IS's post but I agree, her stance is very combative.

Kids are getting less phys ed here too and things like climbing frames are disappearing from school yards because of the health and safety gestapo. It's not easy I know. Schools do suck a lot of the time and I hated phys ed as a kid, even though now I see it was a necessary evil.

Schools only ever do so much though, even the good ones. If a kid is becoming grossly over-weight then the ultimate responsibility lies with the parent/guardian/s to address that. People complain about sex ed in schools, whether it be that there is too much or not enough of it. The onus still lies with the parent though, to make sure their child is educated enough to make informed choices about when they should start being sexually active and so on.

Over here we also have a lot of groups like Girl Guides, Scouts and so on where kids can go and do more active things. It's just a question of good parenting. If your kid is diabetic, you don't feed them Mars bars (unless they're very hypo) and if your kid is gaining too much weight, either their diet must change or their level of activity must increase, assuming no other contributory medical factors - which is also the responsibility of a parent to investigate.

 

[Harmony_1985]

yes, well, incubus dark very recently went from being a 2 pack a day smoker to less than 1 pack a week. he's also watching his food intake now as he shares my preference for a more slender figure. hard, yes. do able, yes.

No one ever said it wasn't do-able or that it wasn't hard.

I used to attend Slimming World classes here in the UK (another weight loss group, like WW) and on that plan, I lost 2 stone (28lbs) with fair ease.

After that, it took me 2 months to lose another 7lbs, after losing 28lbs in about 3 months.

I stuck to the plan, I did it to the number but despite my hard work, the weight wouldn't shift.

So yeah, thats the struggle I have because of my condition. It doesn't PREVENT me from losing weight, but it means it takes forever for it to happen.

 

[serijules]

This is what I hate. People who sit and stare at you when you're overweight and sitting in McDonalds having a meal or going out to a restaurant to eat.

The only thing I have to say is this.

What right do you have to judge me based on seeing me eat once in a fast food restaurant?

Heh, reminds me of when I lost a bunch of weight about 12 years ago. I worked HARD. It did not come off easy, I exercised even though I was dead tired from school. I founds ways to eat healthy despite living in a dorm. I was really proud of myself.

One night I was feeling proud of myself and craving a treat and decided hey, I'll let myself have a dairy queen. Went to Dairy Queen by myself, was sitting there eating a small hot fudge sundae and a group of girls came in. All of them stick thin, jutting bones, barely clothed. They saw me sitting there, fresh from losing 50 pounds, treating myself to something I had no had in 6 months....and made fun of me to my face. "Ewww, I hate seeing fat people shove ice cream in their facesss!!" (um, shove? I'm the slowest eater on the planet!).

After that I felt so bad and so discouraged I ended up giving up on my diet and gaining it all back.

Oversensitive? Hell yeah, I'll live up to that. College was a lonely time for me. They were no the only people to make fun of me, but they were the straw that broke the diet.

 

[WickedEve]

.....

 

[VelvetDarkness]

If you look through history, it's the curvy women who were considered beautiful. Look at paintings and you'll see that little pudge sticking out on nearly every woman. A little meat was good.

But for at least as long as I've been alive, what we consider beautiful now are the very (some times unhealthy looking) slinder run way modles. Stick straight figures, and very little to them anywhere.

I do actually completely agree with this. The only reason that my weight is healthy in an American size 6-8 is that I'm only 5ft tall. If I were an average height, to be that thin would be grotesque. I don't believe that skinny models are anything to aspire to. They all seem to live on black coffee, cigarettes, cocaine and laxatives anyway. To even try being that thin is a very bad idea.

In Europe now, minimum BMI's have been introduced into the fashion industry, so that models who would be classed as dangerously underweight are not able to work on catwalks and so on. It's still far from ideal but I think it's a step in the right direction.

 

[ownedsubgal]

So all of that said, if you’re still with me on this, I do have a few questions for the group.

Is it just my own perception, or does this lifestyle seem to have an unusually high percentage of overweight individuals who are active within it? Or do you think that those within the lifestyle mirror those in society as a whole?

while of course it's true that people in general are getting bigger and bigger, i have noticed an unusually high proportion of significantly overweight people within the BDSM community. so no BG, you are certainly not alone in noticing this. it's something i've wondered about from time to time. i think that a variety of factors contribute...but i think a primary one may be that the BDSM and D/s communities tend to place far more significance on personality and/or bdsm activity interest, than physical appearance. of course in theory this is a good thing. where the problem comes in is when you notice people who have no real lifestyle inclination or interest at all, immersing themselves in the culture because they feel that this is the only way for them to find a relationship or have a fulfilling sex life. my Master and i have seen it many times...someone, who happens to be very much overweight and out of shape, with a basically vanilla inclination becomes frustrated with a more appearance focused vanilla dating scene, they can't get any hits on AFF or craigslist or eharmony, and then they stumble across lit or collarme or alt and see all kinds of people, even more unfit and overweight then themselves, seemingly in great relationships or at least having some great sex. so they play whatever role they have to play...dutiful submissive, or spankable SAM, or whatever...to get the acceptance that they crave.

obviously, this only holds true for some. but i have seen it often enough to make it not uncommon.

but yes, i would say that the lifestyle's "open arms" policy when it comes to physical appearance is the main reason you may notice so many more significantly larger folks active within the community. those who are truly Dominant or submissive, sado or maso, top or bottom, and just happen to be overweight, know that they will be accepted and welcomed for who they are, not what they look like. and then some who have no lifestyle inclination but happen to be overweight see a place where they can get a foot in the door.

If you are in a D/s or M/s dynamic, is your partner in the same physical state (meaning physically fit or overweight) that you are in or are you physically opposites?

Daddy is VERY fit, he has been for as long as i've known him. He works out religiously 4 days a week, he for the most part eats balanced and healthy meals, he cares very much about not just his physical appearance but his stamina/endurance, strength, and general fitness level. He's 5'11", about 200-205. His body is basically rock hard, at one point he was starting to look like a body builder but when his arthritis started bothering him more he toned down the weight lifting somewhat and now he still looks awesome, just less scary, lol. He has that ideal "V" shape, which comes from his highly developed chest and back. He is definitely much more physically sexy and fit than your average 46 yr old.

now in comparison to him, i'm a fat slob, lol. i've never been able to develop that sort of zealousness about exercise or fitness. but naturally, i'm on the slender side. i'm 5'6", my weight is less than 140, more than 125. i try to avoid thinking of exact numbers as i've had my own issues with weight and eating disorders in the past and just don't want to go down that road.

it's important to my Master that i am physically fit, but also physically appealing to him. maintaining the weight and strength differential between us is very important...he enjoys manhandling me, tossing me and fro. i follow an at-home workout regimen that he developed for me, and while he doesn't strictly control my diet as far as exactly what i eat, he does control the portion. i am allowed just over one-half of what he consumes everyday. still, perhaps because i'm getting into my late 20s and metabolism may be changing, i have definitely gained weight recently. tho it hasn't reached panic levels yet, Daddy has told me bluntly that he definitely wants me to lose weight and get in better shape. i no longer fit what he considers to be my ideal clothing size...5/6, so that is my goal, to get back down to that size. it means the exercise regimen is stepped up a couple of notches, and certain foods (like high fat sweets) are cut out of my diet completely. but at my size it takes a great deal of effort me to lose even 2 pounds...still though i am working hard, and hopefully within a couple of months will be at goal weight.

I have heard it said on more than one occasion that most Dominants prefer larger submissives because they aren’t as afraid that they will ‘break’. I’ve found that to be an unfair statement toward submissives who aren’t large. But then again, I would imagine that a very strong male Dominant would wrap his hand around my wrist or my neck and probably wonder if I’m physically up to accepting whatever he wants to dish out. So maybe it’s not such an unfair statement after all.

while of course true for some, it is a myth that simply because a person is smaller that they can take less pain, or because they are larger and have more "padding" they can take more. a former neighbor of ours was very heavy, over 300 lbs, but she was very sensitive to pain and would be in agony if you so much as bumped against her hard. i couldn't fathom her taking a good flogging. and while i'm a pain punk myself, i can take a lot of blunt impact (can take a punch like nobody's business, lol). also i'm a total klutz, and injure myself often in the day-to-day course of life, falling down a flight of stairs or burning myself on the stove, stabbing myself with sharp objects, etc...most of the time i just shake it off and move on. what i have a hard time dealing with pain-wise would be anything sharp or stingy, but that has no relation to body size imo.

What has precipitated the posting of these thoughts and questions at this point? I guess since I’m asking for honesty here, I should share some of my own. I have found over the last few years of online and real life dating that many of the men I meet who are in the lifestyle have been very overweight. I’ve actually stopped dating completely, largely because of this. While I am physically attracted to large men, I prefer them to be physically fit, or at least height/weight proportionate. And a part of me wonders about the level of control a Dominant has over his own life if he is overweight. (Yes, let the flames begin.) When I think of volunteering to give my power up to someone else, while I don’t expect perfection because that’s just plain silly, I do expect that I’m giving my power to someone who has the ability to control not only himself, but me as well. And weight or physical fitness is one thing that I would expect someone who is in control to actually be in control of.

Is that a naïve viewpoint?

no that's naive. i follow your logic, and agree, that one would think a Dominant would keep himself physically fit, at least to some degree, because by nature that should be something he wants to be in control of. if a man clearly does not care a whit about his appearance or fitness level, i'd have a difficult time respecting him as a Dominant. it's not about being perfection personified, it's more about reflecting dominance as a way of life and personal philosophy, and not just some kink or bedroom role. my view is the same when it comes to finances or relationship issues. i'd have a hard time respecting a Dominant who was in tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt, or who'd otherwise clearly shown that they were unable to make wise financial decisions and manage money well. i'd have a hard time respecting a Dominant who was fearful of ending an unfulfilling vanilla marriage, and instead snuck around with submissives on the side. it's all the same.

 

[Netzach]

yes, well, incubus dark very recently went from being a 2 pack a day smoker to less than 1 pack a week. he's also watching his food intake now as he shares my preference for a more slender figure. hard, yes. do able, yes.

"Very recently"

well the jury's kind of out on that huh? One really good traumatic life event and we'll see where that goes.

It's not hard, the smokes thing. It's pretty much impossible. Don't you think there'd be "smoke just enough so it still doesn't effect your health" programs on every street corner rather than "QUIT" plan?

Denial, beast with a thousand faces.

 

[the captians wench]

We used to have this interesting form of social torment in school called Phys ed. But you see, cuts and all. They may get it once a week in some places or not at all. I know it's probably hard to fathom schools sucking that badly - I can't imagine it's that bad in the UK yet. It IS the job of basic public education to include mind/body/service or ethics IMO.

I had it 5 days a week as a small child, danced modern 3 times a week for 2 hours each time in HS as soon as I could do that in lieu of phys ed - fancy private scholarship has its perks. I was a hot if slightly padded 130 on a fat day.

What time do you suggest someone like nh "make her kids move around" with a 6:30 - 8 pm schedule? Maybe 5 am?

Again, I really can't convey what the average lower middle class workweek is here. If people were subjected to it in other countries they would riot. You have bank holidays. We have labor day. DAY. When the Japanese were working like lunatics and on top of the economic universe, they even had "let's all do calisthenics!" starts to the day, every day, altogether now, I'm sure rida will correct me if this wasn't normal and my shitty "how to nagivate the business climate of Japan for businesspeople" book is wrong on this...we MIGHT put in a gym and only the top level has time to use it.

The whole icon of the fat kid picked last for the team may be going the way of the dinosaur - the reindeer games are in jeopardy of ever being played, even. Safety, suburbanization, and isolation are as much the problem as parental neglect. We are living in ways that are killing us when it comes to housing, transportation, and social isolation.

I worked Labor day.

I don't get holidays, I don't get weekends. I don't have a set schedule. My shifts can be anywhere from 24 hours apart to 6 and last anywhere from 9 hours to 16. My days off are usually spattered, most of the time I get 2 a week, usually not consecutive, and more often than not there is some sort of paperwork or meeting or some work that has to be done on my day off.

Then I see my crew, who have 2 jobs, working 8 hour shifts at each job with just enough time to shower and get the kids off to work before the next shift.

I live alone and I have a hard time finding the time (not to mention energy) to take that hour walk, or the half hour of yoga, or what ever for exersize that day. That's why my stateside domly type came up with an exersize for me, and that's why Jounar has been a huge ass chearleader when it comes to me doing these things, because of my frustration in finding the time to do it. So I can not even imagine what some one who works like me and then has kids to come home to has to deal with.

 

[Netzach]

Heh, reminds me of when I lost a bunch of weight about 12 years ago. I worked HARD. It did not come off easy, I exercised even though I was dead tired from school. I founds ways to eat healthy despite living in a dorm. I was really proud of myself.

One night I was feeling proud of myself and craving a treat and decided hey, I'll let myself have a dairy queen. Went to Dairy Queen by myself, was sitting there eating a small hot fudge sundae and a group of girls came in. All of them stick thin, jutting bones, barely clothed. They saw me sitting there, fresh from losing 50 pounds, treating myself to something I had no had in 6 months....and made fun of me to my face. "Ewww, I hate seeing fat people shove ice cream in their facesss!!" (um, shove? I'm the slowest eater on the planet!).

After that I felt so bad and so discouraged I ended up giving up on my diet and gaining it all back.

Oversensitive? Hell yeah, I'll live up to that. College was a lonely time for me. They were no the only people to make fun of me, but they were the straw that broke the diet.

This is so sad to me, so fucking senseless.

 

[CutieMouse]

I do actually completely agree with this. The only reason that my weight is healthy in an American size 6-8 is that I'm only 5ft tall. If I were an average height, to be that thin would be grotesque. I don't believe that skinny models are anything to aspire to. They all seem to live on black coffee, cigarettes, cocaine and laxatives anyway. To even try being that thin is a very bad idea.

In Europe now, minimum BMI's have been introduced into the fashion industry, so that models who would be classed as dangerously underweight are not able to work on catwalks and so on. It's still far from ideal but I think it's a step in the right direction.

And again - why is it okay to say that an average height woman wearing a size 6/8 is grotesque? Why is it any less offensive than saying a signifigantly overweight person is undesirable?

 

[Netzach]

And again - why is it okay to say that an average height woman wearing a size 6/8 is grotesque? Why is it any less offensive than saying a signifigantly overweight person is undesirable?

6/8 no. Not my cup of tea immediately, but I like outta-Titian looking babes like Wenchie. I always got myself off to art history over porn.

0/2 I'm not going to do her, not if paid. It's just a sexual preference, and therefore I should be immune from being offensive no matter how I word it right?

Or what do I know, being currently "a fattie"

what's the standard of measurement on that anyway, I'm not clear. If I've spent half my life wearing 4-6, a quarter size 10, and a quarter of my life wearing 14-16 do I qualify?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

And again - why is it okay to say that an average height woman wearing a size 6/8 is grotesque? Why is it any less offensive than saying a signifigantly overweight person is undesirable?

Well it probably isn't less offensive but I don't see very skinny people as being attractive either. I was thinking more in terms of if I were that height, as in me personally, rather than the population in general. Most people have a suitable, healthy weight that they gravitate towards when their food intake and activity levels are balanced. For some people, that means naturally being very thin but I don't see it as an 'ideal' by any means. People are just built differently.

Everything I say on this thread will probably offend somebody because it's just that sort of topic. I don't see the point of posting though, if I have to edit all my thoughts.

Offence was not intended at any rate.

 

[the captians wench]

Over here we also have a lot of groups like Girl Guides, Scouts and so on where kids can go and do more active things. It's just a question of good parenting. If your kid is diabetic, you don't feed them Mars bars (unless they're very hypo) and if your kid is gaining too much weight, either their diet must change or their level of activity must increase, assuming no other contributory medical factors - which is also the responsibility of a parent to investigate.

Actually putting your kids in those groups has a little more to it than just good parenting. My mom would have loved to put me in all of the groups I wanted to be in, but we couldn't afford it. My brother was in football and baseball, but my step dad coached, so he got to do them for a discount and my step dad just didn't get paid for the coaching. I wanted to do dance, but one lesson cost as much as my brother's entire season of playing. I didn't have much interest in baseball, and they wouldn't let me play football, and chearleading we didn't get a discount for.

Now, I was locked out of the house for an hour or two every day and forced to play in the park across the street durring that time. But I was still the fat kid in school.

 

[serijules]

these days people ARE fat AT you, spilling themselves over you on planes, busses, trains, theatres, shops, footpaths, everywhere that was built for normal sized people before supersized people became the new "norm".

I'd MUCH rather share a seat on the airplane with someone who is spilling over into my seat than sit next to someone that reeks of smoke, has bad hygiene or can't shut up for the life of them.

Is smoking, not bathing and being a social idiot the norm too? My nose was not built to tolerate stench but oddly enough, those thin smokers just never seem to consider that.

 

[serijules]

Am I fat because I have PCOS? No. Do I struggle to lose weight because I have PCOS? Yes.

Ditto

 

[the captians wench]

I do actually completely agree with this. The only reason that my weight is healthy in an American size 6-8 is that I'm only 5ft tall. If I were an average height, to be that thin would be grotesque. I don't believe that skinny models are anything to aspire to. They all seem to live on black coffee, cigarettes, cocaine and laxatives anyway. To even try being that thin is a very bad idea.

In Europe now, minimum BMI's have been introduced into the fashion industry, so that models who would be classed as dangerously underweight are not able to work on catwalks and so on. It's still far from ideal but I think it's a step in the right direction.

I did see that and I think that's a great idea. I believe it was something about banning the "cocaine look".

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Actually putting your kids in those groups has a little more to it than just good parenting. My mom would have loved to put me in all of the groups I wanted to be in, but we couldn't afford it. My brother was in football and baseball, but my step dad coached, so he got to do them for a discount and my step dad just didn't get paid for the coaching. I wanted to do dance, but one lesson cost as much as my brother's entire season of playing. I didn't have much interest in baseball, and they wouldn't let me play football, and chearleading we didn't get a discount for.

Now, I was locked out of the house for an hour or two every day and forced to play in the park across the street durring that time. But I was still the fat kid in school.

Yeah, I take your point. My friend has 2 of her sons in the Scouts and they're very good over here. You can pay the fees by week, by quarter or per year and if you fall behind, they don't really care as long as you're making a contribution and eventually break even with the fees.

I suppose that there are arguments for everything when it comes to activities for kids but even if you just go over to the park with a football it's a good start.

 

[incubus'_sub]

in the past, curvy women were the norm, yes, but not the hugely overweight people that we see everywhere today. that has never been the desired figure of any time.

i don't think that anyone is saying that the superskinny model types are anything but a small minority who went overboard for the job. holding them up as a reason for not losing weight is taking it a bit far.

my post was my honest view, certainly not politically correct in this say nothing, do nothing world. a whole lot of problems in this world could be fixed if people were not now so discouraged from speaking unpalatable truths.

 

[the captians wench]

And again - why is it okay to say that an average height woman wearing a size 6/8 is grotesque? Why is it any less offensive than saying a signifigantly overweight person is undesirable?

I took that to mean that she would look grotesque if she were that tall. Just as I would if I were that thin at my hight, and I'm taller than she is but shorter than you.

I think i look pretty damn good at a size 15 and a height of 5'3". I think I look hot ass shit as a size 10, when I loose much below that, I start looking sick.

Some women taller than me look horrible at my weight. There's a lot more to do with this than numbers on a screen. People can weigh the same, be the same height, and still look totally different.

I think Etolie and I are about the same height and size at the moment, but I weigh a good 75-90lbs more than she does.

 

[Harmony_1985]

This is so sad to me, so fucking senseless.

But its a usual.

I've been overweight since I was 9.

Did I have huge amounts of confidence as a youngster? Hell no, I was one of the least confident people you'd have ever met. Through secondary school (aged 11 to 16) I was bullied by people in my year and had jibes made at me by other students over my weight.

Was I inactive as a teen? Heck no. I was on the school rounders team, hockey team and did gymnastics and trampolining twice a week, as well as being a scout and my involvement in the school productions (I dropped a dress size doing Grease).

I was so lacking in confidence that the way I dressed and presented myself was ruled by my mother, who is also overweight (but currently losing weight via slimming world and has lost almost 35lbs so far, I'm very proud of her). She picked my clothes, told me what to wear, how to have my hair to try and stop me from looking "ever fatter than I already am". She had my hair my hair short, wear dowdy clothes and cover up in all situations (I was often mistaken for a boy because I dressed in jog bottoms and polo t shirts, I don't have much of a bust and I had extremely short hair).

Looking back on that, she may have potentially not helped my confidence, but as far as she knew she was doing her best to help me.

It wasn't until I hit 16 and started losing weight at slimming world that I started to gain confidence. I grew my short hair out and I started wearing more "girly" clothes. I went to uni and I started to get attention from boys too, despite my weight, and that is the major thing that's helped my confidence. Being told by boys at uni that "You're beautiful" when you consider boys of my age range (I'm 23) to be shallow does alot for you.

Yeah I've put weight back on and I'm yo-yoing at the minute, but at the end of the day I'll lose weight when I'm ready to.

Society's misconceptions do nothing for your confidence when you're overweight, and people's ignorance to the experience of being overweight doesn't help either.

 

[Netzach]

in the past, curvy women were the norm, yes, but not the hugely overweight people that we see everywhere today. that has never been the desired figure of any time.

i don't think that anyone is saying that the superskinny model types are anything but a small minority who went overboard for the job. holding them up as a reason for not losing weight is taking it a bit far.

my post was my honest view, certainly not politically correct in this say nothing, do nothing world. a whole lot of problems in this world could be fixed if people were not now so discouraged from speaking unpalatable truths.

People who consider other classes of people inferior are usually convinced they're enlightening the savages who just don't see it that way.

 

[Netzach]

Yeah, I take your point. My friend has 2 of her sons in the Scouts and they're very good over here. You can pay the fees by week, by quarter or per year and if you fall behind, they don't really care as long as you're making a contribution and eventually break even with the fees.

I suppose that there are arguments for everything when it comes to activities for kids but even if you just go over to the park with a football it's a good start.

You're gonna hate me, but you're assuming there's even a park. Or that you and/or your kid aren't going to get shot using it.

It's generally an OK assumption, but in some places not. Weirdly designed suburbs and completely blighted neighborhoods are probably, and I'm not an urban planner, but probably some of the fastest-growing locations. I have a strong hunch that there IS a higher concentration of newly obese there than elsewhere.