A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

[Netzach]

That's kind of my point. Be secure in yourself. What other people think only has merit if you respect them. Do you respect the woman walking by that rolled her eyes because you have commited the cardinal sin of being fat and eating ice cream on a hot day? You shouldn't.

And to the skinny people nbeing all sorts of judgemental, schadenfrude is so bad that it needs a German word to describe. Do you really want to be involved in something like that?

----




I can think of more than a few women that I've seen in sweats, before a shower, and in need of a shave, and thought they looked all kinds of good.

And "rugged" is about the best I can personally hope for, so your comment gives me hope (I look like shit in sweats though)

And a lot of it is how you carry yourself. There's a lady that is in our munch group that is a good example of this. She's an FDom, probably in her 60's, and overweight. Yet she carries herself so well that you just can't help but notice her, and be appreciative of how she presents herself. And she has a wicked sense of humour, an evil twinkle in her eye, and a deviously creative mind. I'm pretty sure that there's not an msub in 60 miles that wouldn't eat a pound of broken glass to be worked over by her, and she catches the eye of vanilla men that don't know that she's dominant. Presentation works.

Confidence works. What's sad is that it's under perpetual assault.

 

[graceanne]

I can think of more than a few women that I've seen in sweats, before a shower, and in need of a shave, and thought they looked all kinds of good.

You're in the minority.

 

[BeachGurl2]

What I won't do, is allow anyone to then intimate that this makes me ugly, undesireable, less than, or "could be if only."

I don't have to listen to that shit and I have every right to call it.

I agree that no one should. But if that's what you or anyone else got out of the things I've posted, then we're communicating on 2 completely different planes and I should just shut up and leave now.

 

[Homburg]

I also think that one of the things wrong in the US is the fact that we can't talk about things that are upsetting to people. We talk about tolerance and inclusion in the lifestyle, everyone having a right to his or her own kink, and we talk about how open minded we are as a group. But I've found that this is only true as long as we aren't talking about something that offends someone else. We have threads about bestiality, severe public humiliation, and even incest, but we can't talk about the trend of obesity in this country (and others) because it's offensive. The double standard of that just boggles the mind.

You're pretty smart. For a skinny chick.



Kidding aside, I've seen this before. It pops up on a variety of topics, and the all-inclusive understanding goes out the window when someone gets their knickers in a wad because they feel marginalised or singled out. It's pretty much human nature, especially on the internet.

As Wenchie said earlier, if my personal preferences bother people, oh well. But my personal preferences don't make me prejudiced against the opposite of my personal preferences.

I've run slam into this particular wall as well. If I say that I like red licorice, five people will come out in support of black licorise, and at least one will say that I'm a rot bastard (little bit of German punniness there) for denigrating black licorice so very unfairly. This is the big reason why I changed my sig, as I went through this rather pointedly in a thread regarding subs abd slaves and differences thereof.

I think what I originally wanted was to see if others noticed what I consider to be a disturbing trend in the US, and to see if people thought the trend might be similar or higher in the lifestyle. I also wanted to talk about the whys of that, because in Phoenix at least, while I've noticed the trend in general among the population, I believe it to be higher in BDSM groups. I wonder why that might be.

I still think that it is the inclusive, non-judgemental, shameless nature of the scene. Different body shapes are tolerated for various reasons, so you see more of them. People with body image issues that would otherwise cover up feel a bit more free at BDSM functions.

And I don't personally think that you've any real reason to apologise. I saw nothing particularly offensive about your posts, or your position. The closest serious poster to bring possible offense was incubus' sub, and I didn't particularly find her words all that offensive either. Combative, harsh, and written more incisively than was needed? Sure, but not particularly offensive. It's just a touchy subject, so people's Butthurt Thresholds are lower.

 

[Netzach]

I agree that no one should. But if that's what you or anyone else got out of the things I've posted, then we're communicating on 2 completely different planes and I should just shut up and leave now.

No, I don't. I think you are right to an extent, this one got wrangled in its own direction.

Here's a way this could have been presented which would not have been as offensive or as mis-construeable to as many fat people, or at least to me. But it's my brain, not yours, I can't inflict it on you. I'm just thinking aloud here and in problem-solve mode.


"Hey I was at this much and I think I noticed something. People seemed larger on average than in the vanilla circles I travel in. What do you think's up with that? Do you think there's something about body image and this community that might lead to that or what?"

That's it.

It jumped the shark. I don't think that's you. I don't think there's NO WAY to talk about this without anyone getting offended, but I do think it's gotta be mighty open ended. There are some constructs that are automatically going to be offensive because they are. You didn't include these necessarily, but there's a lookout for things that smell like 'em. Because they're common and hurtful.

 

[Homburg]

I don't play.

I'm perfectly happy to self-identify as fat, or plush medium, depending on what that's relative to. What I won't do, is allow anyone to then intimate that this makes me ugly, undesireable, less than, or "could be if only."

I don't have to listen to that shit and I have every right to call it.

See, to me, that is the core belief, the first most important step. When you decide that you are going to accept your reality, you're halfway to confidence and good presentation right there.

Damn, I'm not a pretty man. I'm fat, hairy, bald, etc, and I'm fine with all that (less fine with the fat for health reason, but I accept that I will never be svelte, period). Accepting all that was the key decision that allows me to move beyond it.

Confidence works. What's sad is that it's under perpetual assault.

This is where a healthy dose of controlled conceit comes in handy

----

You're in the minority.

Meh. When morning light filters through the blinds and wakes me up, I roll over and see that face surrounded by a mass of sleep-mussed hair. She needs to shave her legs, etc, and her breath is not spring daisies. Whatever. That tousled hair is that way because I fucked her good and hard the night previous, and she smells like her, period. I love that smell. And that look is because she woke up in my bed, with me. There's a natural beauty on those moments that is superior to any amount of make-up, hair colour, fancy dress, etc.

 

[BeachGurl2]

You're pretty smart. For a skinny chick.



Kidding aside, I've seen this before. It pops up on a variety of topics, and the all-inclusive understanding goes out the window when someone gets their knickers in a wad because they feel marginalised or singled out. It's pretty much human nature, especially on the internet.

Well, thanks.

I agree that this seems to be the norm with hot topics. It's like religion and politics. I've now added weight to the list of things I'm no longer allowed to talk about in public.

I've run slam into this particular wall as well. If I say that I like red licorice, five people will come out in support of black licorise, and at least one will say that I'm a rot bastard (little bit of German punniness there) for denigrating black licorice so very unfairly. This is the big reason why I changed my sig, as I went through this rather pointedly in a thread regarding subs abd slaves and differences thereof.

This is one thing I've just never been able to figure out. When people do that, I just kind of shake my head wondering if I heard them right. Happens all the time. Someone on fetlife recently posted his observations about strong female subs and the male Doms who liked them. And the response was amazing - about why that wouldn't apply to male subs, or people who were gay, and why didn't he mention them. He was a male Dom talking about strong female subs. Why would he mention them? Boggles the mind. But it is what it is, I guess.

I still think that it is the inclusive, non-judgemental, shameless nature of the scene. Different body shapes are tolerated for various reasons, so you see more of them. People with body image issues that would otherwise cover up feel a bit more free at BDSM functions.

I do think you're right that this has a lot to do with it. I just wonder if there aren't other things attached as well. I'm just not sure what those other things are. Well, I have some thoughts, but I've decided that I'm not voicing them here. I can only imagine . . .

And I don't personally think that you've any real reason to apologise. I saw nothing particularly offensive about your posts, or your position. The closest serious poster to bring possible offense was incubus' sub, and I didn't particularly find her words all that offensive either. Combative, harsh, and written more incisively than was needed? Sure, but not particularly offensive. It's just a touchy subject, so people's Butthurt Thresholds are lower.

Thank you for saying that. I'm not sure too many people here would agree with you. But I appreciate you saying it.

 

[graceanne]

I agree that no one should. But if that's what you or anyone else got out of the things I've posted, then we're communicating on 2 completely different planes and I should just shut up and leave now.

To tell the truth, I don't think you mean to be hurtful or unkind. I think that you mean to discuss this, but this is the kind of discussion that . . . well if you were fat we probably wouldn't have minded it being brought up. It's a no win situation.

Quite frankly, and I'm not sure about the others here, in all other ways I'm a confident person. My weight is my Achilles heal - I have NO sense of humor about it, partly cause I've done everything and none of it has worked. I'm going to start some yoga classes. I figure it's worth a try, but I sincerely doubt it's going to work. I'm so fucking DONE. And normally I just avoid these threads, because I know I have no sense of humor. I'm reaching the point of despair regarding my weight, and then this thread popped up.

 

[BeachGurl2]

No, I don't. I think you are right to an extent, this one got wrangled in its own direction.

Here's a way this could have been presented which would not have been as offensive or as mis-construeable to as many fat people, or at least to me. But it's my brain, not yours, I can't inflict it on you. I'm just thinking aloud here and in problem-solve mode.


"Hey I was at this much and I think I noticed something. People seemed larger on average than in the vanilla circles I travel in. What do you think's up with that? Do you think there's something about body image and this community that might lead to that or what?"

That's it.

It jumped the shark. I don't think that's you. I don't think there's NO WAY to talk about this without anyone getting offended, but I do think it's gotta be mighty open ended. There are some constructs that are automatically going to be offensive because they are. You didn't include these necessarily, but there's a lookout for things that smell like 'em. Because they're common and hurtful.

I think you're right that there's no way to not offend someone with the topic. And since I'm so terrible at being succinct, I'll leave that up to you. Bad at math? Good at the one-liner. And that's where the original post came in. I knew it would be a tough topic, so I was trying really hard to sort of preface everything I had to say - give the info. Hey, I talk too much.

 

[BeachGurl2]

To tell the truth, I don't think you mean to be hurtful or unkind. I think that you mean to discuss this, but this is the kind of discussion that . . . well if you were fat we probably wouldn't have minded it being brought up. It's a no win situation.

Quite frankly, and I'm not sure about the others here, in all other ways I'm a confident person. My weight is my Achilles heal - I have NO sense of humor about it, partly cause I've done everything and none of it has worked. I'm going to start some yoga classes. I figure it's worth a try, but I sincerely doubt it's going to work. I'm so fucking DONE. And normally I just avoid these threads, because I know I have no sense of humor. I'm reaching the point of despair regarding my weight, and then this thread popped up.

And I had hoped that since I had been on both extremes of the spectrum that might help my position rather than only be looked at as having lost the weight now. Live and learn.

I do get what you're saying. I spent a lot of time not being able to lose an ounce. But then I got divorced, out of an abusive marriage, and things came together. I have no idea why, they just did. But you also have a lot of things in your life that make it harder than for someone who doesn't have those added issues. Which adds to the stresses and disappointments for you. It is a cycle that can get more and more frustrating. The positive is that you have a lot of people in your life who love you exactly the way you are no matter what.

 

[Homburg]

Well, thanks.

You're welcome!

This is one thing I've just never been able to figure out. When people do that, I just kind of shake my head wondering if I heard them right. Happens all the time. Someone on fetlife recently posted his observations about strong female subs and the male Doms who liked them. And the response was amazing - about why that wouldn't apply to male subs, or people who were gay, and why didn't he mention them. He was a male Dom talking about strong female subs. Why would he mention them? Boggles the mind. But it is what it is, I guess.

Heh, this very thing happened so often with one particular person taking grave offense that I did not include left-handed Tibetan bicycle mechanics, or whatever, that I wound up putting that person on ignore. Total inclusion of all cases is IMPOSSIBLE. Talking about one single category does not somehow belittle other categories. Saying that a certain demographic possesses a given traits does not somehow exclude other demographics from possessing it as well. Some people don't learn though, and when they pull the "but what about such and such group?" card, some yahoo from that group will take offense.

I do think you're right that this has a lot to do with it. I just wonder if there aren't other things attached as well. I'm just not sure what those other things are. Well, I have some thoughts, but I've decided that I'm not voicing them here. I can only imagine . . .

Fwwl free to PM me if you want to bounce ideas around.

Thank you for saying that. I'm not sure too many people here would agree with you. But I appreciate you saying it.

Heh, I'm used to that too. A whole lot of people don't agree with me

----

To tell the truth, I don't think you mean to be hurtful or unkind. I think that you mean to discuss this, but this is the kind of discussion that . . . well if you were fat we probably wouldn't have minded it being brought up. It's a no win situation.

Quite frankly, and I'm not sure about the others here, in all other ways I'm a confident person. My weight is my Achilles heal - I have NO sense of humor about it, partly cause I've done everything and none of it has worked. I'm going to start some yoga classes. I figure it's worth a try, but I sincerely doubt it's going to work. I'm so fucking DONE. And normally I just avoid these threads, because I know I have no sense of humor. I'm reaching the point of despair regarding my weight, and then this thread popped up.

I'm actually more touchy about my weight right now than usual. I've been particularly lazy and sloppy about my nutrition, and my gut has expanded. It's pissing me off. Happily, that's a motivator for me, so I worked out tonight. It was short, but brutal enough to almost make me puke (intensity trumps everything) and it felt damned good (after it stopped, of course).

I'm also researching nutrition,a nd trying to find a worthwhile eating plan that I can afford. I've got one of the best in the world (Precision Nutrition) and it worked bloody well for me (never been healthier, never felt better), but I just can't afford the food right now. Can't really take going back on Atkins currently, and, honestly, it left me with too much muscle loss last time as I was too hypocaloric. viv wanted to do South Beach, but it strikes me Atkins Light, and has many of the issues Atkins has insofar as retaining muscle is concerned. Yes, I'll stay fat if the only way to lose weight is to lose muscle. I will not tolerate losing hard-earned strenght, period. So as a result, I'm looking into the Zone. If anyone has any experience with it, please PM me. I know some folks that were on it, and they had some great, if slow, results. sustainability is the big criteria I'm looking at. Too many diest are untenable in the long run because you just can't stomach being on them day to day for the rest of your life.

 

[BiBunny]

You're welcome!



Heh, this very thing happened so often with one particular person taking grave offense that I did not include left-handed Tibetan bicycle mechanics, or whatever, that I wound up putting that person on ignore. Total inclusion of all cases is IMPOSSIBLE. Talking about one single category does not somehow belittle other categories. Saying that a certain demographic possesses a given traits does not somehow exclude other demographics from possessing it as well. Some people don't learn though, and when they pull the "but what about such and such group?" card, some yahoo from that group will take offense.




Fwwl free to PM me if you want to bounce ideas around.



Heh, I'm used to that too. A whole lot of people don't agree with me

----



I'm actually more touchy about my weight right now than usual. I've been particularly lazy and sloppy about my nutrition, and my gut has expanded. It's pissing me off. Happily, that's a motivator for me, so I worked out tonight. It was short, but brutal enough to almost make me puke (intensity trumps everything) and it felt damned good (after it stopped, of course).

I'm also researching nutrition,a nd trying to find a worthwhile eating plan that I can afford. I've got one of the best in the world (Precision Nutrition) and it worked bloody well for me (never been healthier, never felt better), but I just can't afford the food right now. Can't really take going back on Atkins currently, and, honestly, it left me with too much muscle loss last time as I was too hypocaloric. viv wanted to do South Beach, but it strikes me Atkins Light, and has many of the issues Atkins has insofar as retaining muscle is concerned. Yes, I'll stay fat if the only way to lose weight is to lose muscle. I will not tolerate losing hard-earned strenght, period. So as a result, I'm looking into the Zone. If anyone has any experience with it, please PM me. I know some folks that were on it, and they had some great, if slow, results. sustainability is the big criteria I'm looking at. Too many diest are untenable in the long run because you just can't stomach being on them day to day for the rest of your life.

Pssst, H. Sugar Busters. It's the only damn thing that's ever had ANY effect for me with my weird metabolism and blood sugar issues. And you don't have to actually restrict calories if you don't wanna.

 

[rida]

because it ended up speaking out of order and time

 

[Harmony_1985]

no, you just missed my point.

So please enlighten me as to what your point was.

When a slim person feels down, they go for sweet and fatty food, so just because a person is overweight, they shouldn't have the same emotional triggers?

End of the day, most people find a comfort in food of some form. Be you a size 0 or a size 24. It's human nature.

And being overweight does not do wonders for your confidence, so I can understand why what happened happened. You just start to feel good about yourself, gain your confidence, then someone whips it out from underneath you. It's ok to sit and say "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" but unless you've got the confidence in yourself to block those comments out, it won't happen.

 

[Homburg]

Pssst, H. Sugar Busters. It's the only damn thing that's ever had ANY effect for me with my weird metabolism and blood sugar issues. And you don't have to actually restrict calories if you don't wanna.

I've not looked into that one.

I've done stuff that worked, and have plans that I like that works just fine. I'm just too broke to use them right now. Can't afford the organic cha-cha foods, super lean meats, and loads and loads of it (Precision Nutrition has you eating like crazy and working out like a beast. I loved it, was a healthy as a damne dhorse while I was doing it.)

I don't even mind calorie restrcition. At one point I was getting around 1400 calories a day, perfectly happily. It was a horrible idea, and lead to metabolic shutdown, but once I commit to something, I do it in spades

I'll look into it though, thanks.

 

[cherokee_dove]

I didn't feel like you were starting anything. It can be a touchy subject and I've had people really offend me. Such as the schools pretty much demanding I put my daughter on meds, and when I refused telling me she would probably grow up to commit suicide. You asked an honest question. No worries.

NH, the schools down there, or up here where you used to be? Or neither? Because if it is up here, i need a pm as to who said it; cause i have an IEP coming up for the one of mine not on any meds. If they say that, this momma gonna go "BOOM"!

 

[unfoundiamond]

this isn't a rocket science.

I have to preface this.

I was a fat teen (200+ and size 18 at 12yo)

My parents are both big people, both bmi overweight and my dad unlike my mom is pretty healthy, good bp... cholesterol, no diabetes..

I have always sruggled with my image, and being big comes with a stigma in this country, and I have seen the pain both on my parents and in myself...

But...

If you don't have thyroid problems, other extrenuous health problems, hormones problems...

Its simple

*No hydrogenated oils

*No high fructose corn syrup

*No foods with words you can't pronounce easlyly

*No processed food with more than 5 ingredients

People wouldn't need antidepressants and apetiet suppressants without eating all that bullshit "Nabiscos" and "Kraft" and "pepsi" products....

Its all a big consumer wheel...

Eating fruits and meats... real things like bacon and butter, and chocolate even occasionally I have lost 100 pounds and kept it off a year.

I eat beads and carbs and don't WORK OUT... I don't walk... I don't even ride the dick very long okay, and I still lost a lot of weight...

It can be done,

Its not hard,

You should know doing those four things I asterisked is suppsed to add 40 year to your life.

40 more years for your kids to love you....
Or your sub...
Dom....
Wife....
Whatever....

I think people make a lot of excuses and should realize they have to make consious choices to make a diffrence. What you have done hasn't worked... has it?

Its not complicated. Its what we all should have been doing.

 

[nh23]

Having been a teacher and director of at-risk youth - those problem children regular schools don't like to serve - I am with you on this. It frustrates the hell out of me that most public school systems deal with problem children by trying to get the parents to medicate them, and then just write them off as problems instead of doing their job and actually educating them. My nephew is ADHD - he's almost 22 now. He's tall and thin, but athletically built - years and years of soccer. When my sister-in-law STOPPED medicating him, he actually got better - could focus better and wasn't quite as hyper. When I ran a summer program for K-8, I had a kid with the same problem. Know how we could get him calmed down? By giving him a Mountain Dew - sugar and caffeine. Hey, it worked. I'm all for what works.

Yep. We found if certain interventions are put into place at school she actually does very well. The problem is the teachers are not taking the time to enforce those interventions and she is doing poorly. The answer for them is to medicate her so it will be easier for them. Well I'm sorry I'm not going to medicate my daughter with narcotics as a convenience for anyone. If I was that way I would have done it a long time ago for my own sanity. LOL

I'm also researching nutrition,a nd trying to find a worthwhile eating plan that I can afford. I've got one of the best in the world (Precision Nutrition) and it worked bloody well for me (never been healthier, never felt better), but I just can't afford the food right now. Can't really take going back on Atkins currently, and, honestly, it left me with too much muscle loss last time as I was too hypocaloric. viv wanted to do South Beach, but it strikes me Atkins Light, and has many of the issues Atkins has insofar as retaining muscle is concerned. Yes, I'll stay fat if the only way to lose weight is to lose muscle. I will not tolerate losing hard-earned strenght, period. So as a result, I'm looking into the Zone. If anyone has any experience with it, please PM me. I know some folks that were on it, and they had some great, if slow, results. sustainability is the big criteria I'm looking at. Too many diest are untenable in the long run because you just can't stomach being on them day to day for the rest of your life.

I was on the zone diet for about 6 months. I actually did really well on it. I have all the books around here somewhere. The plan they go by makes a lot of sense. Problem is it's going to put a pretty big hit on your pocketbook. Fresh fish, skinless chicken breasts, a lot of fresh veggies. It was a great diet though. I'm just not at a place where I can afford to buy all the things it requires right now.

NH, the schools down there, or up here where you used to be? Or neither? Because if it is up here, i need a pm as to who said it; cause i have an IEP coming up for the one of mine not on any meds. If they say that, this momma gonna go "BOOM"!

The schools there. She was at East though and I figure your little ones are at West or the High School. You'd probably know the person though if I slipped you her name. I'll PM you.

 

[Homburg]

I was on the zone diet for about 6 months. I actually did really well on it. I have all the books around here somewhere. The plan they go by makes a lot of sense. Problem is it's going to put a pretty big hit on your pocketbook. Fresh fish, skinless chicken breasts, a lot of fresh veggies. It was a great diet though. I'm just not at a place where I can afford to buy all the things it requires right now.
.

Lovely. *grumble* Thank you for the info.

 

[ownedsubgal]

i don't go up to people in public either, or in private for that matter, making comments.

i answered this thread, which was being dominated by defensive and attacking posts by self professed overweight people and allowed myself to be honest, in public, for the 1st time ever.

i'm quite old, nearly 54. when i was growing up obesity was so rare that good mothers told their children not to stare or comment at the fat person. nor did i ever pick on the occasional fat kid at school. the very fat WERE rare. now they are not. it's a fact that even the most defensive cannot dispute.

you can view it as a prejudice if you choose. i don't really care. personally i tend to view prejudice as a hatred caused by something which is totally beyond control, like skin colour. dislike of something or someone because of their choices or behaviour is totally human and normal. we all have it and we all do it.

the majority of posters here say they are overweight, from wanting to lose a few pounds to morbid obesity. a snapshot of the new world as it now is, or is there more obesity amongst bdsmers? it IS worthy of discussion but only if we are allowed to be honest about our views.

etoile, i'd missed your post. congratulations. i'm really glad ww is working for you.

incubus' sub, i applaud you for your honesty, and for having the boldness to express an unpopular viewpoint..although you may want to work just a wee bit on your diplomacy, lol.

now i wanted to comment on the bit of your post that i've bolded. yes, the majority of those who've posted in this thread have confessed to being or at least feeling overweight. i think there are a couple of reasons for this...one, the majority of the posters in this thread have been female, and you will be hard pressed to find a human female of any shape, size or weight who does not think that she could stand to lose a few. we just don't tend to be satisfied with our bodies, it's a girl thing. but the other side of it has to do with the lifestyle...in my observations, both on and offline, in 8 yrs of being active in the lifestyle, it can be said without prejudice or exaggeration that the overwhelming majority of people have been significantly overweight. it is not just in BG's mind, it is not just the case in a few isolated lifestyle communities across the country...it's a reality, one that it seems folks just don't want to face or accept. or the attitude is...so what? big whoop! which i don't believe is productive either...i DO think it's an issue worthy of discussion, i do think the "why" of it all should be answered...but is that likely? not in this lifetime.

a while back, Daddy and i did a rare thing for us, and attended a bdsm function held by the local baltimore munch group. this is a fairly large group, and the event was along the lines of a party, with rooms for lounging and relaxing and many rooms with equipment of all sorts set up. they were people scening all over the place...in cages, strapped to tables, spread-eagled on crosses, whips here, floggers there. you get the idea. anywho, that's not our thing at all, but Daddy likes to observe and see what other folks get into. so we were just walking around being nosey, checking out the various scenes, and once we'd done the full house tour, we noticed something glaring: not a single submissive/bottom in any of these scenes could have weighed less than 250 lbs. then we looked around at the partygoers in general, and realized that other than myself and the girl who had attended the event with us, every other female in the place was overweight, from 30 lbs over to 200 lbs+ over (the men ranged in size from anorexic-looking to massive, so no freak out there). again...fairly good-sized event. about 150 people. general BDSM group. sorry, but we found something very VERY abnormal about that.

it's even worse in a local lifestyle group for people of color that my Master belongs to...hundreds of members, with regular meets on and offline, and every single active (participating) female member is hugely overweight. to give you an idea of how huge, a popular member known for being the "slimmest" weighs in at about 260, at 5'2". again...just not normal. this is not just a slice of western society in the year 2008, though we are unquestionably fatter than we have ever been....this is definitely a lifestyle phenomena. it is a bit troubling to me that for some reason within the lifestyle, especially among women (and dominant or submissive doesn't seem to play into this much), being significantly overweight and out of shape is the norm.

 

[Netzach]

incubus' sub, i applaud you for your honesty, and for having the boldness to express an unpopular viewpoint..although you may want to work just a wee bit on your diplomacy, lol.

now i wanted to comment on the bit of your post that i've bolded. yes, the majority of those who've posted in this thread have confessed to being or at least feeling overweight. i think there are a couple of reasons for this...one, the majority of the posters in this thread have been female, and you will be hard pressed to find a human female of any shape, size or weight who does not think that she could stand to lose a few. we just don't tend to be satisfied with our bodies, it's a girl thing. but the other side of it has to do with the lifestyle...in my observations, both on and offline, in 8 yrs of being active in the lifestyle, it can be said without prejudice or exaggeration that the overwhelming majority of people have been significantly overweight. it is not just in BG's mind, it is not just the case in a few isolated lifestyle communities across the country...it's a reality, one that it seems folks just don't want to face or accept. or the attitude is...so what? big whoop! which i don't believe is productive either...i DO think it's an issue worthy of discussion, i do think the "why" of it all should be answered...but is that likely? not in this lifetime.

a while back, Daddy and i did a rare thing for us, and attended a bdsm function held by the local baltimore munch group. this is a fairly large group, and the event was along the lines of a party, with rooms for lounging and relaxing and many rooms with equipment of all sorts set up. they were people scening all over the place...in cages, strapped to tables, spread-eagled on crosses, whips here, floggers there. you get the idea. anywho, that's not our thing at all, but Daddy likes to observe and see what other folks get into. so we were just walking around being nosey, checking out the various scenes, and once we'd done the full house tour, we noticed something glaring: not a single submissive/bottom in any of these scenes could have weighed less than 250 lbs. then we looked around at the partygoers in general, and realized that other than myself and the girl who had attended the event with us, every other female in the place was overweight, from 30 lbs over to 200 lbs+ over (the men ranged in size from anorexic-looking to massive, so no freak out there). again...fairly good-sized event. about 150 people. general BDSM group. sorry, but we found something very VERY abnormal about that.

it's even worse in a local lifestyle group for people of color that my Master belongs to...hundreds of members, with regular meets on and offline, and every single active (participating) female member is hugely overweight. to give you an idea of how huge, a popular member known for being the "slimmest" weighs in at about 260, at 5'2". again...just not normal. this is not just a slice of western society in the year 2008, though we are unquestionably fatter than we have ever been....this is definitely a lifestyle phenomena. it is a bit troubling to me that for some reason within the lifestyle, especially among women (and dominant or submissive doesn't seem to play into this much), being significantly overweight and out of shape is the norm.

I have a theory, because I've noticed the crowd tends to be on the larger side. I'm not so sure it's not true of most crowds, though, but it's a theory FWIW. The men in my group tend just as much toward plus sizing ranges, BTW.

Look at the chemical reactions MD's attribute to vigorous activity, in terms of the brain chemistry.

Look at what masochistic painplayers attribute to a good beating, in terms of brain chemistry.

Look at what a twinkie gives your brain for a short duration.

Same shit, different delivery.

As for "why the tops too" generally people are attracted to people in corresponding H/W caegories, I find. You'll tend to find larger people in couples and more fit people in couples because of the common interests, and let's face it, people tend to eat the same thing together.

 

[Homburg]

I have a theory, because I've noticed the crowd tends to be on the larger side. I'm not so sure it's not true of most crowds, though, but it's a theory FWIW. The men in my group tend just as much toward plus sizing ranges, BTW.

Look at the chemical reactions MD's attribute to vigorous activity, in terms of the brain chemistry.

Look at what masochistic painplayers attribute to a good beating, in terms of brain chemistry.

Look at what a twinkie gives your brain for a short duration.

Same shit, different delivery.

Insightful. Wow. This is a really good point. We're a bunch of endorphin junkies, so food endorphin boosting makes sense.

As for "why the tops too" generally people are attracted to people in corresponding H/W caegories, I find. You'll tend to find larger people in couples and more fit people in couples because of the common interests, and let's face it, people tend to eat the same thing together.

I break the curve on this one. Powerlifting does that. "It's not fat, it's leverage. It helps ya lift more, ya bastard!" So I'm fat and still active. Yay.

 

[the captians wench]

I have to preface this.

I was a fat teen (200+ and size 18 at 12yo)

My parents are both big people, both bmi overweight and my dad unlike my mom is pretty healthy, good bp... cholesterol, no diabetes..

I have always sruggled with my image, and being big comes with a stigma in this country, and I have seen the pain both on my parents and in myself...

But...

If you don't have thyroid problems, other extrenuous health problems, hormones problems...

Its simple

*No hydrogenated oils

*No high fructose corn syrup

*No foods with words you can't pronounce easlyly

*No processed food with more than 5 ingredients

People wouldn't need antidepressants and apetiet suppressants without eating all that bullshit "Nabiscos" and "Kraft" and "pepsi" products....

Its all a big consumer wheel...

Eating fruits and meats... real things like bacon and butter, and chocolate even occasionally I have lost 100 pounds and kept it off a year.

I eat beads and carbs and don't WORK OUT... I don't walk... I don't even ride the dick very long okay, and I still lost a lot of weight...

It can be done,

Its not hard,

You should know doing those four things I asterisked is suppsed to add 40 year to your life.

40 more years for your kids to love you....
Or your sub...
Dom....
Wife....
Whatever....

I think people make a lot of excuses and should realize they have to make consious choices to make a diffrence. What you have done hasn't worked... has it?

Its not complicated. Its what we all should have been doing.

the first 175 lbs was easy doing that exact thing. Just eating a bit more fresh foods and less processed. I had also started back to work, so I was slightly more active.

But these last dress sizes are very hard. I think your body just finds a happy size and sticks with it some times.

Of course, one it could be my PCOS slowing me down a bit, and I'm not all that actively trying to loose, so that could slow it down too. I decided that it's more important for me to be healthy and happy than to spend every day trying to be thinner. And so far, I am happier.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I have a theory, because I've noticed the crowd tends to be on the larger side. I'm not so sure it's not true of most crowds, though, but it's a theory FWIW. The men in my group tend just as much toward plus sizing ranges, BTW.

Look at the chemical reactions MD's attribute to vigorous activity, in terms of the brain chemistry.

Look at what masochistic painplayers attribute to a good beating, in terms of brain chemistry.

Look at what a twinkie gives your brain for a short duration.

Same shit, different delivery.

As for "why the tops too" generally people are attracted to people in corresponding H/W caegories, I find. You'll tend to find larger people in couples and more fit people in couples because of the common interests, and let's face it, people tend to eat the same thing together.

the endorphin thing is actually a pretty good theory, you may be on to something with that...it might also explain why the overweight thing is so glaring in BDSM-heavy groups, and not quite so much in the more D/s-heavy circles. people who get a high from pain may be more likely to get a high from food too. come to think of it, i've heard something like this before...i forget the word that was used, but it basically had to do with bdsmers living a life of pleasure and excess, always indulging yourself...sex, food, pain. that actually makes some sense to me.

it does seem to me that the weight thing seems to be more of an issue among subs and bottoms, but then that could just be me not paying enough attention. not that there aren't plenty of chunky Doms and Tops out there, it just seems a bit more balanced, more reflective of the society at large.

two reasons why weight probs could be a little more prevalent on the bottom end: on the maso side, the pleasure glutton/addict theory spelled out by Netz. on the submissive side, maybe lack of motivation. i've noticed many submissives suddenly drop a great deal of weight once they get into a serious relationship...maybe all they need is a demanding Dominant to come along to whip them into shape, or even just to say that it matters to them. Daddy has served as a mentor to quite a few submissives over the years, and the chunky ones have always lost weight (and managed to keep it off) at his suggestion. i know that if he weren't my Master, and instead i were owned by someone who was like "oh you're fine as you are," i'd probably totally slack in the fitness and diet departments and be a little roly poly subbie by now.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Insightful. Wow. This is a really good point. We're a bunch of endorphin junkies, so food endorphin boosting makes sense.



I break the curve on this one. Powerlifting does that. "It's not fat, it's leverage. It helps ya lift more, ya bastard!" So I'm fat and still active. Yay.

you keep calling yourself fat, but it's clear you're very active and fit. i can't see you getting winded weilding a flogger for instance...lol. the awareness you have of health and diet, and the self-discipline it takes to dedicate yourself to a fitness regimen like power lifting, are reflective of your dominance, even if your weight doesn't fall within what dated medical standards says it shoudld.

so, you would not fall under the category of seriously overweight and out-of-shape lifestylers, imho.