A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

Ok, a lot of the reason why obesity is on the rise is parents are more afraid than they used to be. It used to be kids would come home from school, grab a snack, and go out and play. Now days you find kids who never leave their house - their parents are afraid they'll be kidnapped/murdered/molested. You can schedule in exercise, but still kids aren't getting the exercise they used to get, because kids used to exercise EVERY DAY.

Oh then my family was just ahead of the curve. If they didn't make us do it at recess AND at gym again, I never would have been permitted to run around. (they were insane, for real, I think we've covered this in IM's late at night one time...heh)
 
Sorry, additive brain. :)

Do you mean ADD-itive brain? :p

It's one of those "If yer so smart, why ain't you rich?" things. Le sigh.

I get that a lot. I have an IQ of over 130 and below 140 (the exact number tends to change a bit). My answer is 'not everyone is good at school.

Maybe the only solution would be to just wear T shirts saying "MYOB" all the time everywhere, everyone. I'm only half kidding.

people, self included, spend way too much time up in each others' shit and not enough in their own. It's probably some kind of eleventh commandment that got edited out.

I guess Jesus covered it later on, come to think of it, but we think of him as this ultra deep guy so don't apply it. Zen pretty much IS it and nothing but it. Mind your own business, and then, no mind. No business.

I thought Jesus covered it really well.

How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? Matthew 7:4


Except in my case I don't care if there's a damn TREE in my eye - if you have a plank in yours LEAVE ME ALONE!

As for Incubus' Sub - I would suggest dropping it. When a person is determined to feel superior they will, and you can't argue them out of it.
 
Oh then my family was just ahead of the curve. If they didn't make us do it at recess AND at gym again, I never would have been permitted to run around. (they were insane, for real, I think we've covered this in IM's late at night one time...heh)

Yeah, my mom too. LOL (Pretty sure we covered it, also.) She wouldn't let me spend the night at other peoples houses, for fear their fathers would molest me. Their was no way in HELL I was going anywhere without her or another trusted adult. It got better when we moved to Oregon, cause my grandma owns several hundred acres out in Oregon City, and she'd let use loose there. The problem? I was ten, and my back was beginning to bother me. Plus my way of escaping was through books, so I was already pretty sedentary. Give me a stack of books and a quiet room and you wouldn't hear from me until my sister would bug me enough to make me smack her.

But truthfully. I know lots of parents. None of them are happy that their kids are inside all the time. Quite frankly, the kids are normally driving them BATTY. But they're terrified of weirdo's. My heart child's mom is like that, and she (who's barely 10) is already getting bad grades in PE and has recently packed on a bit of weight. (Her mom's decided to put her in gymnastics, but not everyone can afford that stuff.) She does better when she's spending a lot of time over here, cause she and my older girl do a lot of walking around the apartment complex, so she's getting SOME exercise. Plus, when the weather permits, we go swimming every day.
 
See, NYC was and is full of weirdos, but the fantastic part of a city is that if you stick to crowds there's always a crowd. I never feel entirely safe out of eyeshot of lots of witnesses to this day, I'd be a loopy lulu of a mother if I had kids. But put 'em in a pair, on a busy street, or a packed sheep meadow, and there's no problem provided they're not junior drug addicts or something.
 
See, NYC was and is full of weirdos, but the fantastic part of a city is that if you stick to crowds there's always a crowd. I never feel entirely safe out of eyeshot of lots of witnesses to this day, I'd be a loopy lulu of a mother if I had kids. But put 'em in a pair, on a busy street, or a packed sheep meadow, and there's no problem provided they're not junior drug addicts or something.

I know that I'll allow A to do things with friends that she can't do by herself. Like, walk to the store. There is more safety in groups and K and I don't want to raise fearful kids.
 
incubus sub...You are a prejudiced anorexic freak that obviously does not like people who have an ounce of meat on their bones..God help them if they do since apparently we are all disguisting to you if we have one extra ounce on our bodies...

Beachgurl you are still protesting to much...You obviously are a hater of bigger people too..You have tried to hide it but you haven't. it is most obvious in your posts that you think you are better then anybody that isn't to your standards!

Now both of you are going to be put on ignore so I won't have to see your hateful vicious attacks against people who do NOT meet up to your standards.
 
incubus sub...You are a prejudiced anorexic freak that obviously does not like people who have an ounce of meat on their bones..God help them if they do since apparently we are all disguisting to you if we have one extra ounce on our bodies...

Beachgurl you are still protesting to much...You obviously are a hater of bigger people too..You have tried to hide it but you haven't. it is most obvious in your posts that you think you are better then anybody that isn't to your standards!

Now both of you are going to be put on ignore so I won't have to see your hateful vicious attacks against people who do NOT meet up to your standards.

Denial is a sad thing. I'm not protesting anything. I'm having a discussion about something that impacts all of us in some way. And namecalling on any side is small minded. But there you go.
 
The prep class, which was one of those bougie things my mother scrimped for because she was FREAKING out I might not get into a good school (insanity) was basically just that. How to test. How to understand the logic of the test, for people who obviously didn't the first time around.

The math, well you know. Not much bang for that buck. My verbal went from 90th percentile to 98th percentile. Without having it explained to me though that particular logic puzzle would have eluded me - that's a skill by itself.

I'm not rich either, in fact in debt for being smart up to the time I went in debt for being sick. I don't regret the first round of debt. :)

In debt for being smart.... Yeah, I can relate to that.

--

My older girl has my body type - weight is going to be a problem for her as she gets older. I've got her signed up to start yoga classes in the fall. She also swims like a fish and runs like a deer. She's very active, and very picky in a good way. She doesn't like a lot of sweets and will actually turn them down if she's had some already that day. She doesn't really like red meat, and keeps trying to switch to vegetarian. (I have no issues with that, as long as she eats something with a little protien in it a day. We're still learning how to have a vegetarian/omnivore house - we'll get it.)

I would not be at all surprised if my oldest goes veg.

My son is square. He doesn't have ANY fat on him, and the other day at the pool someone pointed to him (not realizing he was my son) and said 'wow, is that like a little kid six pack?' I've seen him hang from the monkey bars and do leg lifts while laughing. He thinks they're fun! :confused: He's the one with the sweet tooth.

I was playing with my oldest son a little while back. He's put his hands together over my hand, and I'd lift him up over my head. Well, he was shirtless at the time, and when I would do it, his abs would tense up. He'd go from having a flat stomach to one with six little knots on it. I'm looking at it and realised that the boy's abs are showing through. Mine have never seen the light of day, and he's showing off that msucle tone at five years old.

Damn.

Ok, a lot of the reason why obesity is on the rise is parents are more afraid than they used to be. It used to be kids would come home from school, grab a snack, and go out and play. Now days you find kids who never leave their house - their parents are afraid they'll be kidnapped/murdered/molested. You can schedule in exercise, but still kids aren't getting the exercise they used to get, because kids used to exercise EVERY DAY.

Yeah, this is a problem for us. Our neighbourhood isn't really bad, but it is not kid-friendly. There's a lot of road, and not a lot of grass, and far too many people speed around those roads. Given how poor visibility is, the kids can not play around the streets safely. Drives me buggy.

I get that a lot. I have an IQ of over 130 and below 140 (the exact number tends to change a bit). My answer is 'not everyone is good at school.

Heh, I remember taking an IQ test in middle school and thinking it was one of the most fun tests I'd ever taken. I would've happily taken it again simply because I enjoyed that sort of mental effort. Afterwards, the school called my parents in and discussed it with them. They said I had a "plus" IQ. In other words, the chart stopped at 150 for their test system, and the person talking to my parents showed them the chart and waved her hand above it, "And your son is somewhere up here".

My folks told me this and I was like "Yeah, right. It's probably 152 or something. Whee." I was utterly unimpressed because I knew kids that were demonstrably smarter than I was. Still am, and I still do know people that are demonstrably smarter. I'd take that IQ test again though. Good stuff.
 
The word inferior may not have come up before, but I have definitely seen implications that fat people are grotesque, disgusting, gross, diseased, untouchable, etc. Which is all fine, everybody's entitled to their opinion, but as a fat person I do find those words hurtful. (I'm not blaming anyone in particular, multiple people have made these comments.)

I also find this troubling, and intellectually, a real turn-off. I am crazed about healthy food and what I eat and feed my kid. I mean, I have actually been pissed off by his father feeding him Burger King (but I had the good sense not to make it an issue!). I realize I am that mom that makes other people roll their eyes and think I'm a giant pain in the ass, but it's just one of those issues that makes me mental. The point is, I'm the first one in line to rail against unhealthy eating, but the characterization of body fat as disgusting is so full of hate and loathing.

BeachGirl - What troubled me about your initial post was the statement that watching people eat fattening food made you physically ill.

If it's unhealthy to eat fatty fried food (and it is), it's also seems to me that it's unhealthy to be physically ill watching other people eat, unless we're talking eating live bugs on Survivor.

I'm 6-5, 220, very low body fat, work out every day.

I have the resting heart rate of an Olympic athlete and I am a male dominant.

Do you also enjoy long walks on the beach? Hate intolerance? Calendar Dom...
 
This is something that disturbs me as well. I've not seen a lot of it in my local group, but this one is rather explicit about not being a meat market.



I remember that pic you posted of him. Damned straight he's in great shape.



You need to squelch that noise, osg. You are damned hot.



This is an aspect that really enjoy with MIS as well.



This sounds simplistic to some people, I'm sure, but there's actually a lot of good science behind this. The nutrition structure that I was on previously (when I had the money to buy the ingredients such as organic veggies, pasture raised meats, etc) maintained that women should take the recipes suggested and cut them in half. It was that simple. And it was based on studies and articles and such.



I remember a co-worker whining to me because she'd gained 4lbs, and I just could not comprehend why it would bother her. My weight can fluctuate that much in a day with no problems. Then I sat down and thought about it. She was a teensy little thing, and weighed less than half what I did at the time. 4lbs was actually as ignificant amount of weight for her. And while I can sweat off 4lbs on a serious trail ride, she had to WORK to lose anything. I gave me perspective, and I was a lot more sympathetic towards the poor skinny litte thing.



Pain tolerance was not what I was talking about, actually. I was thinking more about contusions, intra-muscular bleeding, how much tissue pinch becomes an issue, etc. Given your size and build, for example, I'm surprised to hear how well you take a punch. That is a very uncommon ability with someone built like you. Kudos to you.


well we all have our talents, lol. this doesn't mean of course that a punch won't injure me...far from it, just that i handle the impact well pain-wise. a good beating won't prevent me from lying down on the sofa in relative comfort, watching the national geographic channel 20 minutes later, tho my ears may be ringing a bit.

but you're absolutely right that size (or really weight) does make a significant difference when it comes to what the skin can handle, tension, things of that nature. also i'd imagine when it came to things like suffocation or serious breath restriction, weight could be a factor. i just wanted to step away from that stereotype so many seem to believe of body size having some relation to pain tolerance or fragility. if i were a very heavy person, i wouldn't want someone to assume that they could automatically whale away on my backside with no problems...and likewise i wouldn't want someone to assume i had to be handled with kid gloves just because i'm smaller.

and lmbo @ your being "sympathetic towards the poor skinny litte thing." at least you understand her pain somewhat. Daddy otoh is showing me no sympathy whatsoever with this whole weight loss thing. He's not the tender, coddling type when it comes to matters of practicality like this...he's more the type to look at me with a shrug, say, "yeah it's going to be hard, EXTREMELY hard, that's just the way it is. you have to do it. just do it," cracking the whip behind me all the way, lol.
 
I suppose according to some here I should be carted off to prison for child abuse. I bought my slighty overweight children a box of Ho-Ho's the week before school started.

The funny thing is when I brought them home and the kids unpacked the gracery bags they were shocked. I had never bought them Ho-Ho's before. Or Twinkies, or Zebra cakes, or Ring DIngs. They thought something was wrong. Why else would Mom buy Ho-Ho's? Was the world coming to an end? Nope, I just decided that Ho-Ho's were one of the simple joys in life and they should experience it.

Anyone with kids that age know that they have wacky growth spurts. It always seems like my daughter get wider then stretches out and grows a couple inches. My kids probably don't get the exercise they really should because I am one of those paranoid moms who doesn't let them roam the neighborhood, esp when I am at work. But I try

There is always fruit in the refrigerator for snacks. But we also have family movie night with a dish of ice cream one a week. It's all about moderation.

It's also all about manners and treating people how you would like to be treated. I was overweight as a child and my brothers teased me endlessly. Did that encourage me to lose weight? Hell no! People who are overweight already know they are. Hating and being disgusted isn't going to be helpful either. Plus it is really rude.

I work out on a treadmill everyday for myself not for anyone else. Occasionally my PYL and I will go on a jump-start diet together but other than that he doesn't influence my food intake.

I've rambled enough..got to get moving :)
 
Can I ask why you make this statement? I have had ADHD my whole life, but I've never been especially active in a keeping-thin way. I'm just curious what link you see between thinness and ADHD.

Do you have ADD or ADHD? My kids are hyperactive, to the extreme. They never stay still. Always jumping, running, kicking their feet. The hyperactivity means they are constantly moving. I'm sure it has to be burning off calories.
 
i wondered that myself, as my oldest son is ADHD; and has always been on the muscley side of the realm.

He started freshman football this year, so that will hopefully help re-arrange the muscles and fats into the right combination for him.

And surprisingly, it has put him more in focus of his own behaviors; which is definitely a good thing.

~not meant to upset NH, just wondering~

None taken.:kiss:
 
You know BG, while you continue to claim it is all about health, and the huge cost each year to the health industry etc., being your motivation for the thread, it unravels when you look at the real figures of what is killing and immobilising people and has been for a long time, that being stress related illness. You do not propose these people need to take a look at themselves and do something, nor that they make you physically ill to watch, and yet it is a real problem which for some is manageable if they are given the resources and can apply them to their life....of course, it also would help if life itself was not so stressful, if people had enough to live on, if they weren't criticised and judged for any number of things, and if we lived in a more supportive and friendly community. Bottom line is we are all human, we all have our weaknesses (yes, even you do), most of us are aware of our problem areas and many attempt to do something about them, and no amount of criticism from others who do not approve of another's particular issue, or often do not know what they are talking about, lends any positive or long term support but does do a lot of damage on both sides.

Catalina:catroar:
 
I know obesity on kids is on the rise, but honestly, I dunno. I know that my freshman 15 became the freshman 25, then 40 as my lifestyle suburbanized. THAT's when it gets tough, when those who normally can eat whatever suddenly can't without gain.

I also think a lot of the weight issues, along with many of the diseases on the increase, are due to the changes in our food over the last few decades. When I was a child, the only thing we ate which had any sort of additives in was the occasional bought biscuit when visiting family/friends whose family bought as opposed to bake. Everything else was simple food without preservatives, additives, colourings, no genetic modification. The more GM and additives are being incorporated into our diets right down to legislation in some countries that particular ingredients (vitamins, preservatives etc.) must be in all bread etc., the more health issues are arising, the more people are finding it difficult to control their weight and health, and the more frequent diseases which affect the digestive system etc., are becoming. Some kids are not as active, but others are just as active as we were when I was a child and yet some of those very active children are still showing signs of weight gain issues. Like many things, it is easier for governments to shift the blame to those affected than look at the possibility it could be more complicated and possibly a result of their decisions.

Catalina:catroar:
 
... When the Japanese were working like lunatics and on top of the economic universe, they even had "let's all do calisthenics!" starts to the day, every day, altogether now, I'm sure rida will correct me if this wasn't normal and my shitty "how to nagivate the business climate of Japan for businesspeople" book is wrong on this...we MIGHT put in a gym and only the top level has time to use it.

Less and less companies now do this, mostly state runned companies.
But you can go to any park and at 6AM there is going to be a group of people doing those exercises. Every day at 6AM the national radio station will broadcast them, and at 6:30AM they are broadcasted on the national TV channel, where you even get to see the low impact version and the chair-bound version.

PE is also taken very seriously at schools, and even school meals are thought out with an eye to a balanced diet. Also parks are full of playing equipments.

Japan is indeed a much more children friendly place than many of the places in the US and even compared to many places in Italy.
You don't have to worry about being shot; you don't have to worry about being kidnapped; there is plenty of parks or other area for kids to play. There are public Gyms and pools that are really really cheap. It is by no mean a perfect place, but I find it easy to rise children here.

I think there is also some truth in the fact that people metabolize foods differently depending on their ancestry make up.
 
BeachGirl - What troubled me about your initial post was the statement that watching people eat fattening food made you physically ill.

If it's unhealthy to eat fatty fried food (and it is), it's also seems to me that it's unhealthy to be physically ill watching other people eat, unless we're talking eating live bugs on Survivor.

I thought I clarified this earlier but either I didn't or people didn't believe the clarification. It wasn't the eating of the food that bothered me. It was the food on the plates that bothered me. The plates were overly large and overflowing with food, with gravies and sauces lapping over the sides onto the tables. It had nothing to do with eating or the people.

When I visit my parents for the weekend, I have a hard time eating the food because my mother fries everything as well and there's always a very large amount of it. My girls love to visit my folks because they know they'll get 'comfort' food. But both of them want to come home after a few days because their bodies can't handle the amount of grease and fat they are consuming. Bratgirl called me the last time she stayed with my folks after 2 days because she wanted to come home for 'real' food. (Her words, not mine.) My mom is old school Southern - she only fixes fresh veggies, not canned or frozen, but then she puts a couple tablespoons of bacon grease in them while they're cooking. Because I don't eat that type of food very often at all, it's hard for me to eat it even when I crave it because my body isn't used to the amount of grease.
 
You know BG, while you continue to claim it is all about health, and the huge cost each year to the health industry etc., being your motivation for the thread, it unravels when you look at the real figures of what is killing and immobilising people and has been for a long time, that being stress related illness. You do not propose these people need to take a look at themselves and do something, nor that they make you physically ill to watch, and yet it is a real problem which for some is manageable if they are given the resources and can apply them to their life....of course, it also would help if life itself was not so stressful, if people had enough to live on, if they weren't criticised and judged for any number of things, and if we lived in a more supportive and friendly community. Bottom line is we are all human, we all have our weaknesses (yes, even you do), most of us are aware of our problem areas and many attempt to do something about them, and no amount of criticism from others who do not approve of another's particular issue, or often do not know what they are talking about, lends any positive or long term support but does do a lot of damage on both sides.

Catalina:catroar:

I don't disagree with this at all, Cat. In fact, I mentioned it awhile back in the thread. That there are a number of things that contribute to all of these issues, including the direction we're moving in regards to weight, and that none of them have a single cause nor a single solution. But I believe that as long as we pretend the problem doesn't exist, whatever the problem is be it stress, poverty, or weight, we won't be able to find any solution to it.

As to me having weaknesses, I've never said that I don't. In fact, I would think the history I've outlined here with my own issues with weight would pretty much be at the top of the list of those weaknesses. I've spent a lot of time over the last several years doing a lot of self reflection. It's something that's very important to me. And one of the things that has come out of that is that the one thing I won't do is lie to myself about my own flaws, faults, weaknesses, whatever you want to call them. I try to be brutally honest with myself about my flaws, motivations, what have you. What bothers me is when people try to pretend that they don't have any, or that the weaknesses they have are someone else's fault. My flaws are my own responsibility and I try very hard to deal with them every single day in a positive way. I don't always succeed, but I hope that I succeed more than I fail. And when I do fail, I try harder next time to be successful.
 
I also think a lot of the weight issues, along with many of the diseases on the increase, are due to the changes in our food over the last few decades. When I was a child, the only thing we ate which had any sort of additives in was the occasional bought biscuit when visiting family/friends whose family bought as opposed to bake. Everything else was simple food without preservatives, additives, colourings, no genetic modification. The more GM and additives are being incorporated into our diets right down to legislation in some countries that particular ingredients (vitamins, preservatives etc.) must be in all bread etc., the more health issues are arising, the more people are finding it difficult to control their weight and health, and the more frequent diseases which affect the digestive system etc., are becoming. Some kids are not as active, but others are just as active as we were when I was a child and yet some of those very active children are still showing signs of weight gain issues. Like many things, it is easier for governments to shift the blame to those affected than look at the possibility it could be more complicated and possibly a result of their decisions.

Catalina:catroar:

I completely agree with this. And said something similar earlier. My mom didn't begin to really gain weight until my family moved from the farm in Alabama, where we not only worked the farm but ate our own produce, to Arizona, where she didn't even have a garden for fresh produce. I believe that was partly caused by her lack of physical activity and partly the change in diet, as well as some health issues that contributed through medication. Again, an issue with multiple causes that came together to make the situation worse.
 
Do you have ADD or ADHD? My kids are hyperactive, to the extreme. They never stay still. Always jumping, running, kicking their feet. The hyperactivity means they are constantly moving. I'm sure it has to be burning off calories.
Oh, it's definitely ADHD, Combined Type. Perhaps my joints are what have kept me from being quite so active...although I remember playing and running around a lot as a LITTLE kid, my joints started going bad in my early teens, so I suppose I haven't been that active in a long time. Hyperactivity manifests itself in more than just gross motor activity though...I am extremely hyperactive in a fine motor sense! ADHD is my soapbox though, and don't mean to start anything...I have a lot of strong opinions about it so I am gonna tuck the soapbox back under the desk. :)
 
I am 5'7 140, size 10-12...

But I have a ghetto booty, and I am not short so... I am what you'd consider curvy...

I have a sub who's a gluttonous mean spirited, hateful man... and he is overweight...

I think if he was healthyer I might be less convinced he doesn't care about himself.

But...

Then there are men like my bioDad, he is like 6'4 and 300lbs, and he's not fat as much as he's just... solid, and tall....

So some heavy is sexy, and masculine... and some is not...

Women have a huge stigma about weight but Anna Nichole (rip) made me realilze a fine ass bi*ch is always fine... and I love fine girls...

But... I don't want a person who doesn't care for themself telling me what to do. I don't believe a master who doesn't care for themself can care for me... guide me...

One must be able to throw the D. That's one benefit of the few xtra pounds...

I never let anything keep me from a person I seek.

I dated a female top who was the thickest girl I was ever with, and she was amazing....

Id say...

Healthy is best, and pretty is a bonus...


((I know this may be wrong, but... two kinds of fat, 1. You are and can't help it now 2. You over ate and didn't work out. A alpha male type is less likely to be fat for reason number two... so look out for indicators...))

LoL
 
I simply don't get all this. If everybody is nobody else's business, how are we even a society at all? Yes, everyone has their own reality but what that little personal world does is limit the objectivity they have about themselves. Regardless of whose business it is, western society is steadily getting fatter and it's bad for everyone. Obesity and eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia cost the UK and USA governments as much as things like smoking, drinking and drug abuse. Put all those preventable problems together and you'll find they cost more than more expensive things like cancer treatment by quite a long way. The additional health problems suffered by these people are often completely preventable. The psychological issues that they have are complex and take time and more cash to treat. None of the treatment available though, is any good at all unless people reach a place where they want to make changes, address their personal issues, become a healthy weight and hopefully a bit happier as a result.

Who is going to go into these awful projects and estates where people have already been let down by society and their own families and educate the people living on the breadline who buy processed crap almost exclusively? Whose business are they? If somebody puts on a T shirt yelling 'MYOB!' at the world, do we simply cease to care about them?

A little story.​

A cousin of mine's oldest kid is ADHD with the added issue of Asperger's. He failed to get on with his younger siblings and stepdad, he became violent and uncontrollable a lot of the time. He told everyone to fuck off time and time again. He was expelled from mainstream and then from special needs schools. He was given up on by social workers, child psychologists, the local police force and just about everyone who ran across him. His mother was asked more than once if she wanted to put him into government care so that she could have a break and concentrate on her other, normal kids. She was offered valium and other drugs to help her cope but she turned them down. Everyone saw this kid as a walking 'problem.'

By the time he was 18 he had a string of youth court convictions and was sent to an adult prison. He beat up 5 other lads and it was in all the papers; 'local hooligan batters 5 promising students in an unprovoked attack.' It transpired that these 5 lads had bullied him mercilessly when he was in mainstream school to the point where he had been held in front of a moving train and only escaped at the last moment. When they saw him, they started teasing him again and he flipped to such a degree that he had the strength and rage to take on 5 guys at once. (rage probably isn't the right word as I know Asperger's sufferers operate differently when it comes to emotions but it's the best word I can think of right now.)

When he came out, he was given a shitty little flat and a parole officer whose sole mission was to get him into employment - any employment. This kid had not 1 qualification and almost no employment experience of any kind. His mother had no idea what to do with him next. She tried to get him into the adult spectrum of psychiatric care and nothing was offered. He went to a group for young adults with Asperger's but hated it as he wasn't the kind of person who could cope with being sociable and neither were most of the others there. He signed up for some evening courses so he could get basic qualifications in maths and literacy. The state gave him a grant for a PC.

Bingo.

Within weeks he had books on computer programming and was completely computer literate. He switched courses and started learning IT but left within weeks as he outstripped everyone there. He started playing online games like Team Fortress 2 where people log on and form teams for an army game. He started making online friends. His skill at the game got him the first unconditional praise he'd had in years.

His mum went with him and told the parole dude all this. The guy started putting R up for entry level jobs in IT but R had no interest in entry level stuff and performed poorly at interviews. To the parole guy, R appeared to be arrogant and ungrateful, with no real interest in getting a job. They argued and R punched him.

The parole officer could have had him imprisoned again. He could have assigned him to someone else. He could have done any number of things but what he did was to arrange an interview for a software engineer's job, one that paid £30,000 ($60,000) a year and expected applicants to have a university degree and 3 years experience. He did this to teach R not to try running before he could walk.

R wasn't great at being interviewed but at some point, they sat him in front of a PC and asked him to do certain things. He impressed them so much that R was offered the job under a government funded mentoring programme. He started on £20,000 per year and the company was paid by the government some extra money to have a colleague train him. That was in 2000.

He has since developed software for use by GP and dentist surgeries almost single-handedly and he earns upwards of £50,000 per year. He is one of the most sophisticated software designers of his generation and has won awards for his work. He has been head-hunted by various companies but likes his job and won't leave. He is a brilliant and highly intelligent individual and his communication and emotional skills have developed tremendously because he can't convey his ideas and his work to others unless he can speak in layman's terms and engage his employers.

There were so very many times in his life where he could have become a statistic, a casualty of modern society and it's aversion to people who 'don't fit.' Nobody wanted responsibility for him - R didn't even want responsibility for himself.

He wasn't the parole officer's responsibility. It just took somebody to take an interest and point out that the boy-hate-world trip he was on was self destructive and would lead to disaster.

People are generally quite crap at taking true responsibility for themselves and everything they do. Netz might but she is a distinct minority. Society has to take constructive steps with people who are damaging themselves and obese people/anorexics/bulimics are doing just that. If we all take the stance that nobody else is our business, our modern, selfish society is fundamentally doomed. You can't spend your whole life in fear of offending anybody and people who are very over-weight need re-educating and help with identifying underlying causes that many of them just wouldn't seek themselves.

You can make all the excuses you want to about individual circumstances, budgets and so on but who is that really serving, them or your own conscience?

Ok, end rant. Let the flaming begin.
 
I simply don't get all this. If everybody is nobody else's business, how are we even a society at all? Yes, everyone has their own reality but what that little personal world does is limit the objectivity they have about themselves. Regardless of whose business it is, western society is steadily getting fatter and it's bad for everyone.
I simply don't get all this. If everybody is nobody else's business, how are we even a society at all? Yes, everyone has their own reality but what that little personal world does is limit the objectivity they have about themselves. Regardless of whose business it is, western society is steadily getting more violent and it's bad for everyone.
People are generally quite crap at taking true responsibility for themselves and everything they do. Netz might but she is a distinct minority. Society has to take constructive steps with people who are damaging themselves and obese people/anorexics/bulimics are doing just that. If we all take the stance that nobody else is our business, our modern, selfish society is fundamentally doomed. You can't spend your whole life in fear of offending anybody and people who are very over-weight need re-educating and help with identifying underlying causes that many of them just wouldn't seek themselves.
People are generally quite crap at taking true responsibility for themselves and everything they do. Netz might but she is a distinct minority. Society has to take constructive steps with people who are damaging themselves, and people who allow their partners to beat, cut, humiliate, and anally rape them are doing just that. If we all take the stance that nobody else is our business, our modern, selfish society is fundamentally doomed. You can't spend your whole life in fear of offending anybody and people who are in violent, degrading relationships need re-educating and help with identifying underlying causes that many of them just wouldn't seek themselves.


[/substitutions to make a point about society vs. individual choice]



Velvet, I applaud your interest in improving the health of society. Rather than attempting to "re-educate" those who are "crap at taking true responsibility for themselves," my suggestion is that you start by educating yourself - about the industrial food complex, and the myriad ways in which it impacts health in the Western world. I strongly recommend the Pollan book discussed by MWY in this post.

It's an uphill battle, but there are many here in the States who are making tangible improvements - by fighting to have trans fats removed from restaurants and product ingredients, fighting to have school lunch menus altered, and so on.
 
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I just feel like sharing that in my first week of WW I lost 2.1 lbs. Boo-yah! Got a long way to go, but a start's a start. I gotta get me one of them weight tickers for my signature.
 
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