A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

[catalina_francisco]

We did have a thread about this question (people in the lifestyle in higher proportions of obesity) a few years back, and the general consensus was that it is no more or less in the lifestyle than mainstream, just perhaps more noticed by some who mix with lifestyle folk and take particular notice. I have been mini size, and larger also which is the case at the moment. What a lot of people tend to do is judge those with weight issues on the assumption they know the facts and it is manageable and simply the fault or laziness of the person who is not what they consider the perfect size.

Reality is it is about much more than over-eating, exercise, healthy lifestyles, and making a choice. F is gorgeous, but also fights weight issues. I have my own theories on why he has problems and it isn't as simple as saying he shouldn't eat particular foods and amounts....I have issues at the moment and know it is mostly due to menopausal issues which make controlling glucose in the body impossible...unfortunately, initially my doctor told me I had this issue and needed to watch my diet (which they already had noted was very small and full of good habits and foods so perplexing as to why I was gaining more), but neglected to tell me it was a side effect of menopause for many women hence why many women who do not change their diets and habits and get plenty of exercise still gain weight during that time (and which can take years to get through). I am not alone as I and others have also developed weight gain due to medications and other health issues which left them with no way to control their appearance. So no, while it is easy to feel it is manageable I tend to think that is over-simplistic and a view usually held when education and knowledge is not fully employed, and often by people who are not experiencing the problem themselves.

I think there is a misconception also here that being thin or within healthy range for height means one is healthy. That is not also necessarily so. Some people are born with a naturally fast metabolism which helps enormously with stopping weight gain...it can also restrict weight gain to maintain healthy weight levels for some people. IOW, those people can often eat the most unhealthy crap you can find, but appear to be slim and so accepted on face value by others to be healthy. I for one find slim people who have no muscle tone a huge turn off, and unfortunately a lot of slim people, male and female are just this way. Size is not all of it, being healthy is measured on many levels and through various means, not just what shows on the scales or to the eye.

So on to answer the questions you asked;

Is it just my own perception, or does this lifestyle seem to have an unusually high percentage of overweight individuals who are active within it? Or do you think that those within the lifestyle mirror those in society as a whole?

No, I don't think there is a higher percentage in the lifestyle, though perhaps people who are more comfortable with how they look due to their lifestyle choices than many who try and survive in the media driven and judgmental mainstream. Seems from what is reported almost daily, the mainstream have the same problems and difficulties with weight, both lack of and over abundance, but there is little mention of underlying factors unless you watch/read information based on psychological and/or medical information.

If you are in a D/s or M/s dynamic, is your partner in the same physical state (meaning physically fit or overweight) that you are in or are you physically opposites?

It has been both...the same and opposite. It is life. When I was tennsie weensie and mainstream, I fell for a guy who was considered by all who knew him to be highly obese (which he was). He was not physically what I would consider perfect, nor what I was looking for, but the chemistry was fantastic and he was a lovely person... I also had good relationships with men who were less than what I considered perfect in a physical sense, but once again, I was with them because of their personality, character, chemistry, not what they looked like. Interestingly, those I dated in the past who were considered in good shape and great looking often were less in terms of personality, character, or just being a great person overall and didn't usually last for long with me.

As a Dominant/Master, do you encourage your submissive/slave to be health conscious? If not, is it because it is not important to you or because you are attracted to someone who is BBW?

I'm not sure this question should be directed just to PYL's, or maybe, I just don't get why it is. IMHO, if you are a pyl in a relationship, you also look to support and help your PYL if they have a problem of any kind. In our relationship, we both support and encourage each other to fight the weight issues in the interest of remaining healthy and alive, thus together longer. Because I am the one who usually buys the food and cooks it, I buy fresh fruit and vegetables and cook/prepare them in a variety of ways to be appetising and interesting, and make healthy snacks from dried fruit and nuts for those moments when something is craved for....that is for both our benefits.

If you are overweight, do you find that you have difficulty being as physically active as you would like to be?

Sometimes, but reality is I began having the exact same issues when I was slim and had been exercising regularly then found I was having serious issues which restricted my ability to maintain that level of physical activity, so I suspect it has less to do with weight as with health issues which have resulted in weight issues, and climate. I am even more sure of this since our trip to Spain as I was able to walk uphill (and while carrying weighty bags of camera gear etc., and for hours in 40C temperatures without a problem, but when I am here or in Oz where humidity is a factor, I have major issues and have to think about if I can do it, how I will do it, if I will carry anything or be able to, make sure I have a mobile in case of problems, and how I will get home if I get to a point I cannot continue. So while I am sure weight lose would help in some ways, I am not confident it would significantly change anything for me.

Are you comfortable being partially or fully unclothed if you play in public or at private parties with others?

We don't do public things. F has in the past, including running workshops etc., but it is not something he craves or enjoys, nor is it something we need, so public anything is not a factor. I daresay it would not be an issue if we did as we are both very much of a mind that we only have an obligation to please each other, not anyone else. It is not an arrogant statement, but too often people base their interest in being part of this lifestyle in a participatory way on the perception of those around them, not their own. We don't, we are who we are behind closed doors or not, with or without knowledge or approval of anyone else.

Catalina

 

[Snoozebutton2]

Well I can speak from personal experience. I myself am overweight. Yes it has limited me in searching for a partner. As there are those who need a man in shape and fit. I have also seen how some dominants prefer thin women as well. Examples being those who enjoy rope bondage loving playing with thinner girls as get to put in more positions. I would never ask a woman was with to lose weight for me. I would ask for us to lose weight together. As want to be as healthy as possible for each other.
There will always be preferences but it does go to ones character as how they express them. As to truly have BDSM be a family we need to accept all aspects.

 

[castagnus]

We did have a thread about this question (people in the lifestyle in higher proportions of obesity) a few years back, and the general consensus was that it is no more or less in the lifestyle than mainstream, just perhaps more noticed by some who mix with lifestyle folk and take particular notice. I have been mini size, and larger also which is the case at the moment. What a lot of people tend to do is judge those with weight issues on the assumption they know the facts and it is manageable and simply the fault or laziness of the person who is not what they consider the perfect size.






















Catalina

This is a most informative thread - and I'd like to offer some observations.

In the aftermath of WW2 I lived in war-ravaged Europe; butter, meat and sugar were rationed and we mostly ate what we grew in our garden. We walked or bicycled to our destinations. There were no overweight children in my school and ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder)and other "learning disabilities" were unknown.

I take that back - I do remember a boy who had displayed what I now realize was ADD and his teacher wrote a note to his parents about this affliction. That evening, his father administered very effective anti-ADD medicine which was so effective that the boy was cured.

The only overweight person I remember was the principal of my school, but given the lack of available calorie-rich food, the causes for that must have been due to genetic factors and/or chemical or hormonal imbalances, suggested by Catalina and others on this thread.

In 1951 our family emigrated to Canada and that was the first time I noticed overweight children and adults - not many, but there were a few. Over the past 50 years, I have seen an increase in general obesity. During the 80's I moved to the USA, and today, spend a lot of time in Kentucky and West Virginia were I would say that the majority are overweight - and possibly related to that, there is an epidemic of diabetes, heart problems and osteoporosis. I have also noted that the concept of eating home-cooked meals around the family table is becomong a rarity - it is so much easier to order a pizza or go to a fast-food outlet.

I agree that eating too much bad food and lack of excercise does not explain all this - in my own case , I chose my slender ancestors very carefully, I eat healthy food and stay active, and have always been slim. My 5 children are slender, well-toned and follow sensible life styles - of course it helped that my ex was not overweight. So they partly owe their healthy bodies to good genes.

 

[CutieMouse]

Oh, and another good thread about weight.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=453898

Someone quoted my original post in that one, so I was able to restore it to pre-great-[idiotic]-purge-of-2007 status... It might make more sense now.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I don't even know if this will post it's so long! I wanted to reply to lots of people, but not in individual posts. I hope this reads clearly. I also have a couple I'm responding to separately. Thank you to everyone who has treated this as the serious discussion I intended it to be!!!

I'm tired and I don't feel well, so I'm not going to go into my normal rant.

Some people, due to health reasons, can't lose weight. Like people who've been off and on prednisone for years, are borderline diabetic, and have arthritis so can't do anything high impact. (See how quick I got my rant out?)

As I've mentioned before, I have lupus. I actually gained my original weight from prednisone. It was horrible. My skin was so tight that I was constantly in pain from it. Even clothing against my skin hurt. So I fully understand what you're talking about, Gracie. I was able to get off the prednisone and find alternative treatments that work for me, but they don't necessarily work for others. But it took years to finally get that weight off. That type of weight gain is almost impossible to lose when you come off the meds, but it is impossible to lose when you're still on them.

As for being clothed or not, that's why I close my eyes. It's funny - some women close their eyes during sex cause they're pretending they're with someone else. I close my eyes cause I'm pretending I'M someone else. And if I see myself it kills the mood. Ew, just ew. But I'm not uncomfortable nude, just uncomfortable seeing myself have sex while I'm nude. Luckily, I'm VERY nearsighted, so even with the lights on and a full length mirror on the closet next to our bed I can't see myself.

I had to chuckle just a bit not at what you said here, but because I have the same issues with my own body. I HATE to see myself naked. Hate it! I don't own a full length mirror and won't. And once I'm dressed for the day, I don't look in the mirror again until I'm brushing my teeth at night.

So here's something interesting that I've been thinking about. I NEVER make comments about my kids being overweight or whatever, but I have to be very careful not to all my younger daughter things like 'skinny'. I don't want her to be self conscious of her size, either. (FYI she's 7 years old, and weighs 45 lbs. She wears a size 4 clothes - and they're too big around the waist. I buy her panties at a size 2/3 - depending on the brand.) A comment sinn0cent made once brought home that I needed to be just as careful with her body issues as I am with A's.

Kinda like how CM said that her co-workers say she doesn't eat enough and is too skinny. They probably would NOT say something like that to a fat person, but it's ok to say things like that to a skinny person? Their are people who can't GAIN weight, any more than I can lose it. My step mom is 5' tall and has to diet to stay OVER 100 lb's - if she's not watching her diet she drops to 80 lbs QUICK.

Bratgirl is almost 14, is 5’ and weighs about 120#. She’s got the early-teen waist with a little roll around it that will be gone in a year or two. She has my body type, so she’s curvy, but she’s bigger boned than I am. My ex is actually taking me to court over her weight. While she’s within her healthy weight range, he believes she is seriously overweight and wants the courts to force me to have her weighed regularly by her doctor and put on a medically approved diet. After my body image issues, I’m VERY careful not to be the food police and not to say negative body things to my girls. We eat healthy and we eat junk. But I try to model behavior by always eating in moderation. I also have always allowed my girls to fix their own plates and determine when they are hungry or full. But now my ex is monitoring her food intake when she’s with him and forcing activities she hates. It’s becoming a real problem. She now won’t wear shorts because she thinks her thighs are too fat. It works on both sides of the coin and I’m glad you mentioned that, Grace.

After i got married and found out that sex actually sucked rocks i packed on a lot of weight and quit wearing makup. i think it was a way to insulate myself from his sexual advances by being less attractive.

Because of my ex-husband's skewed vision of attractive, I had the same issue. I was constantly told that I was fat, ugly and worthless. When I gained the weight from the prednisone, he left me alone. So I didn't try very hard to lose it. I did the same - stopped wearing makeup, wore unattractive clothing, really just stopped taking care of myself. If I was so fat, ugly and worthless, what was the point, right?

my experience was almost identical only my mother told me all the time i needed to lose 10 pounds. i look back at pictures now and i wasn't the least bit chubby and didn't need to lose a pound. i get really angry sometimes at how many years i wasted thinking i was fat when i actually looked really good.

Having grown up in the deep South, I had the same issue with all my relatives. I was never fine, I was always too fat or too thin. Even now, when I visit my folks, if I’ve gained a few pounds, my mom comments. If I’ve lost a few pounds, she tells me I need to eat more. It’s a never ending battle.

Based on daily observation I think that the U.S. population, in general, is overweight and unhealthy. All the while the media pushes healthy options (tons of ads for exercise machines, gyms, ways to cook healthier meals, etc.). There is so much publicity about the onset of adult diabetes and high cholesterol, as well as employers “forcing” their employees to live healthier lifestyles (due to insurance premiums).

The company I work for has banned smoking on the premises, even in one’s car in the parking lot. No one (even visitors) is allowed to smoke within 50 feet of the entrance to the parking lot. At the site in which I work we also have a large and well equipped gym, as well as yoga, aerobic, and self-defense classes.

My company is very proactive as well. We have a gym on site and they will pretty much add anything we ask for. We have several employees with significant health issues, so our health care costs are pretty high. But at least they try very hard to do the best they can. Have to give them kudos for that.

It’s only recently that I’ve found out that taking care of myself does not depend on anyone’s point of view or regard toward me, it’s all about how I feel about myself. I always thought that people should just accept me regardless of my weight and health, which (for me, personally) was just a cop-out. Really, I was only hurting myself. The 64 thousand dollar question is, do I accept me the way I am (large and unhealthy)? Honestly, no, I don’t. So, how can I expect others to accept me? That doesn’t mean that being large is unhealthy for everyone. However, in my case I have high blood pressure and (used to) become easily winded and overheated and experience pain in my hips, back, and ankles during any type of activity.

I've often wondered about how others felt about that. While I was overweight, I, too, figured that since my ex said I was, then I was. I didn't care much about it. I never looked in the mirror, bought clothes that fit and were comfortable (read, elastic waists), and since I didn't wear makeup and I let my very long hair dry naturally, I only had to spend about 3 minutes in front of the mirror. I believe, too, that my feelings were a cop-out as well. I didn't accept responsibility for the fact that I was choosing to remain this way. And yes, it affected how I felt and my self-esteem.

What it comes down to is my self-esteem (personally and professionally) has significantly increased thanks to all the walking and that is great motivation for me to keep it up and do other types of exercise. I haven’t had a significant other in a very long time because of my low self-esteem due to issues with health and weight. But now that I feel better about myself I think others will see me in a more positive light as well. And I have to admit that I would be more attracted to someone (whether he is large or thin) who takes care of himself and lives a healthy lifestyle.

Congratulations on this, Exogenous. And I think you're right, others will see that you feel better about yourself and will respond accordingly.

Hi BG2, I think this is a very interesting topic and one that you're handling very diplomatically FWIW. Kudos for that.

Thank you for that, Velvet.

Master has asked me to help him diet and I do cook healthy food that he enjoys eating. I've dramatically cut the carbohydrate in his diet but whenever my back's turned he eats a packet of biscuits or a family sized bag of Doritos. This has caused conflict because I feel like I'm moderating his diet for no good reason and allowing him to excuse eating crap because he's been 'good' for a few days. A part of me does resent being his personal chef and gently nagging diet monitor because so far, it hasn't really got him anywhere. I know I have no power to influence what he eats and drinks. Also, he then gets the misguided impression that I want him to lose weight. The reality is that I couldn't give a damn how big he is, I just know he's unhappy and unhealthy. Also, his dad has diabetes and so his risk of type 2 is quite high.

I know that you've posted about this before and I think I responded then as well. I think this goes into what Netz was saying earlier about being able to influence and lead, but not actually do for them. And it has to be so very frustrating to be in your sort of Catch-22 position. You want him to lose the weight so that he's healthier, not necessarily for the appearance. I think what people aren't getting is that for me it is less about appearance and more about health. But that's okay. I know what it's about for me, so no worries there. Hang in there.

I hate the perception that everyone who carries weight is fat because they're a pig who gorges out on fatty and greasy food whenever they can.

And I'm pretty sure that I haven't said that anywhere in my post. I commented on what I saw the people at the munch eat, but haven't otherwise commented on that.

Just means most the sticks are boring I think

And this is the type of comment that I hear time and again when talking with others about this issue. Skinny people are just boring anyway, or I can't hit them because I'm afraid they will break. Same sort of stereotyping that others here have mentioned about the overweight. Just in reverse. And equally unfair, in my opinion.

 

[ponysslave]

I don't think it should be the job of the Dom to contol what his/her sub is eating. Caring about a person's physical health is one thing, but the sub also needs to take responsibility for his/herself.

Instead of expecting the Dom to be responsible for all that, I would think that the sub should want to be in whatever shape is pleasing to his/her Dom.

I try to stay fit because I feel more attractive for my Master...even though He still tries to fatten me up with his cooking.

 

[CutieMouse]

Is it an issue with BDSM? Nah, I don't think so, I think BDSM'ers come from all walks of life and its just a coincidence that many of us carry a bit of extra weight.

Just means most the sticks are boring I think

And THIS is exactly the same kind of discriminatory attitude heavier people complain about.

 

[BeachGurl2]

The Dominants (some have been truly gorgeous) who have been approaching me online have in their profiles the whole bit about expecting a physically fit gal...even if they don't look like they're holding themselves up to that standard! LOL

This is an issue I run into all the time. They want someone 'skinny but hot' and 'arm candy' but they are slovenly and unkempt. It's pretty common here. I saw a beat up old pick up truck with a very overweight guy probably in his 40s wearing a dirty wife beater and grungy hair with a bumper sticker that said 'no fat chicks'. I think the irony escaped him.

Arizona is hot isn't it? *laugh* I don't know if I could handle it. We'll have to get you some nice LL Bean gear for your visit here.

Well, Phoenix is hot. But there are mountainous towns that actually get several feet of snow. So we have both. And yes, I'd need something very warm because I hate the cold!

There are several factors. It's somewhat complex.

Oh I suppose it wouldn't matter that much if they really wanted to play with me.

I'm made anxious when someone (potential dating material) goes on and on about the type of aesthetic that they expect. Part of those feelings stem from a relationship that I had years ago where the person dictated to me what I ate, and frequently told me that I was ugly and fat when I wasn't (all of this happened while I was at my healthiest, but I was very young and was still susceptible to my previous eating issues). I know the impact it had on me, and I can consciously and logically tell myself that I shouldn't worry about it, but it was still damaging.

I can totally relate to all of this, Muse. I had a coffee meet with someone I'd met on an online dating site. We had exchanged pics and had enjoyed very good emailing over a couple weeks. He was what I considered to be average appearance, not overly good looking, but not bad looking either. When I walked into Starbucks, he was already there. As I walked towards him, he rose, and looked me up and down very slowly. When I was about 3 feet in front of him with my hand outstretched for a handshake, he said to me, "Well, it's not a love match, but I'll do you." Oh really? I didn't say anything, kind of mumbled a 'thanks' and turned around and walked out.

Some people here may consider my viewpoint shallow. I don't believe it is because it's not about appearance, it's about physical activity and physical health. His viewpoint was shallow. I may have a lot in common with someone who is physically inactive and therefore overweight. But the fact of the matter is, if he is physically inactive, we don't have enough things in common to have any kind of life together. I don't want a relationship with someone who is going to while away his time in his barcalounger watching TV while I go out hiking and camping and traveling and doing other outdoorsy things with other people. No. I'm not doing that. (Sorry, off track there for a minute.)

All told, at this point in my life it doesn't matter that much to me, but I have my own general apprehension because I'm unhappy with myself for various reasons. I'd like to be a healthier weight for both health, and for self confidence.

I am currently going through a bad break up, and the rejection, and fear of subsequent rejection from a new encounter is too much for me to bear. I'm too stressed out and fragile to deal right now. (This pertains to online interactions. I don't know that I'd feel the same way if someone approached me in person. If someone ever approaches me in person I'll keep you posted.)

I internalize a lot though. I'm good at it.

Besides, I met a pretty one for lunch a few weeks ago, and I coudn't stop thinking about how much fun it would be to top him. I had to keep saying to myself "self, don't step on his toes, he may be more than just a pretty face, despite how easy you think it would be to top him."

Like you, I tend to internalize it. I think it has to do with that early training. I hope that you're able to find balance within yourself and get back what you feel you've lost. It took me over a year to heal from the damage I allowed my ex-husband to do to me. But once I did, I think I did okay. Oh, sure, I still have my moments. His damage combined with my already skewed vision of myself all rear up on occasion. It's just part of the baggage I carry. So I go through periods of feeling like I'm unworthy or unattractive or have nothing to offer. But I don't allow myself to wallow in it. I give myself the short pity party and then move on. It's what you do to survive, I think.

*nod* Personally, anxiety, control issues, and childhood OCD, all aid/ded in making me one hell of an intense person, and we all know that intense people like spankings.

Absolutely!

 

[catalina_francisco]

And I'm pretty sure that I haven't said that anywhere in my post. I commented on what I saw the people at the munch eat, but haven't otherwise commented on that.

While I appreciate you might think you did not say it, I think the assumptions were fairly clearly along the same vein. For one thing, commenting on what people at the munch ate and your reaction was covertly making assumptions that that they eat those foods all the time and that is why they are the size they are, and that was the focus of your attention. Chances are some of them do, but I think chances also could be that some may not eat those foods at all at home or elsewhere. Given it was the only food available at the munch from what I gather, some people feel self conscious if they do not eat in a group of where others are eating...sort of draws attention when you don't do as the majority do, and some people find the attention that can attract (and at times pressure to join in or be seen as a snob) more scary than the being thought to be eating something someone else deems unacceptable to be passing their lips. Sometimes it is also seen as impolite and bad manners to not eat in an environment where others are. How do you know some of those people did not eat because of the environment and point of being seen as sociable (yes, eating is seen as a social grace by many, thin and thick), but intending and actually working out extra in the following week to combat the extra calories?

I know in my own case, since cutting chocolate to perhaps 2 grs a week if that, I have been battling weight with far less success (and putting more on) than when I was eating anywhere between 500gr to 1 1/2 kilo of chocolate a week, every week....and apart from taking the chocolate completely out of my diet, I also have eliminated the very few remotely unhealthy things I was eating as occasional treats, which as I was and have been for over a decade a no salt, no fat, little to no sugar diet (sugar only in the form of the chocolate and occasional cake...not every day or even every week thing...and which was usually without any type of icing/frosting) was not a huge change. Doesn't make sense unless you take into account the health issues I am dealing with but I bet if you saw me take one chocolate someone offered me at a munch your immediate thought would be, 'no wonder she has a weight problem when she eats things like that'. Point is, though you are in the fortunate position of being within your weight range, you are not an expert on the lives and health of others, especially people you do not know but choose to judge and condemn through your own assumptions. Brings to mind people interviewed on the BBC last week about the same issue of whether overweight people are that way through their own fault...one lady in particular was very angry about it, and as she pointed out, she had never had a weight problem in her life until she was involved in a serious accident which left her immobile for months through no choice of her own and the pounds piled on. She was around my age or perhaps a little older, and in the gym trying to work it off, but as she pointed out, she did not choose to be injured, she did not choose the weight gain, and despite her workout programme and careful eating, it was not her choice she was not losing the weight.


Catalina

 

[graceanne]

Someone quoted my original post in that one, so I was able to restore it to pre-great-[idiotic]-purge-of-2007 status... It might make more sense now.

Oh, good. It was such and awesome thread.

And THIS is exactly the same kind of discriminatory attitude heavier people complain about.

I wasn't going to say something, but I'm glad you did. That was pretty much my point. If someone had said that fat people are boring, they'd be crucified, but it's ok to say it about skinny people?

As I've mentioned before, I have lupus. I actually gained my original weight from prednisone. It was horrible. My skin was so tight that I was constantly in pain from it. Even clothing against my skin hurt. So I fully understand what you're talking about, Gracie. I was able to get off the prednisone and find alternative treatments that work for me, but they don't necessarily work for others. But it took years to finally get that weight off. That type of weight gain is almost impossible to lose when you come off the meds, but it is impossible to lose when you're still on them.

I was on prednisone, 60 mgs the first time, for six months. We spent six months trying to get me off the prednisone. The next time I was only on it for two months. (My body likes prednisone and I have to taper VERY SLOWLY.) The third time I was getting 150 mg shots, in the hospital, for 10 days. I then went to 60 mg's and I stayed at that for nearly a year. (I think it was 10 months.) My GI said that my metabolism is fucked. (Not in those words, but that's the gist.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I've seen some people comment on this, but I see people comment on this in almost every population.

I haven't conducted any surveys and this is only based on my opinion, so please don't contact any corporate sponsors I have to get my show canceled.

Being fat and being mentally or physically ill are about the last minorities that can still be persecuted medically and in the media with no repercussions. The current ideas about "American Populations" being this or being that or otherwise - are easy, judgmental and wrongheaded ways to blame a person for their brain and gastric chemistry. It's not that easy, and I think compassion is required on an individual basis to consider each person as a whole. Yes, there are definitely lazy slobs in the world. No doubt. But the stereotype is dead wrong.

My sister spent most of her life 400+ pounds and at age near 50 got bariatric surgery and dropped about 250 of those pounds. She spent her life struggling and being ostracized.

She's an amazing person and it was never about will. It was however about physical imbalance and a surgical procedure fixed that for her.

I see what I consider to be persecution and stereotyping in every community. And those who consider physical imperfection to be worthy of scorn don't really notice that their lack of compassion or understanding is also scornworthy, if not more. You have a choice, right? Well, there's the question. Does a person really have control over their body or their thoughts? I know it's an ideal of this community, so it gets exaggerated. And certain flaws are minimized or maximized according to preference. I tend more on the forgiving side, as I haven't walked a mile in everyone's stillettos and haven't bothered, again, a perfect survey.

I will say that the BDSM community will tend to have more outspoken judgmental and righteous people in it. Also, with masochists and sadists, all the issues surrounding food become fodder. BDSM people consider themselves to be enlightened and specific, and that's all true enough to a certain limit. Some of the enlightenment is just a preference with a full force of ego behind it, and some of the specificity is the intellectual justification of an emotional individual need, excluding all others as "wrong."

A masochist who suffers for their weight gets brain chemistry "attaboys" and gets reinforced on how "right" it is. And then decides everyone's brain works that way. It doesn't, I'm afraid.

If a masochist could consider that going on a diet for some folks is the equivalent of the maso spending all day at a spa, being waited on hand and foot by their dom and having their dom break down and cry and recite the poetry they wrote about their crush when they were 14 years old on the little redheaded girl, and the only thing on the menu was hot fudge and sugar, maybe they'd get the gist.

End trans.

I wanted to respond to this post separately because I think you bring up some important points. But the fact remains that it is a huge issue in our country. Health care rates are skyrocketing because of our unhealthy habits. We have become a sedentary culture. We have also become a culture of people who have horrible eating habits. It's not stereotyping, it's a fact.

Disneyland has the 'It's a Small World' ride closed for renovations. Someone I work with has a family member who works at Disneyland. I don't know the truth of this, only that it was shared with me, but the reason his family member gave for the renovations is that the design of the ride no longer works because the people are becoming too large. So the boats are no longer large enough and the water is no longer deep enough to handle them.

I travel about every 6 weeks for my job. I can't count the number of times I've had a seatmate who overlapped his/her seat into my seat and made my flight terribly uncomfortable. I can't imagine how much more uncomfortable it would have been if I had been equally large. I've even had seatmates who were so large that the arm rest couldn't come down between us.

There have been numerous studies that show a correlation between our American diet, our sedentary lifestyle, and an increase in both size and health issues. I realize that for some people it is an issue of metabolism and other chemical factors. I know first hand that medical issues can contribute to weight gain.

I'm not trying to minimize your sister's situation in any way. But I think there has to be a happy medium somewhere in this issue. Yes, people can be large and/or overweight and still be in good physical condition. I mentioned a friend of mine early on in exactly that spot. She's one of the most physical fit people I know. And it's very frustrating to her that she can't lose weight. I see her struggle with it. It's even more frustrating for her that we eat a similar diet, she gets tons more physical exercise than I do, and we are as different as night and day in our sizes. I understand and sympathize with her frustration with it.

But . . . there's a fine line between compassion and enabling bad behaviors. And I think that's part of the issue for me. My ex-husband has been monitoring my daughter's food when she is with him because he believes she is overweight (she isn't). So when they were out shopping a couple weeks ago they stopped for lunch. At Burger King. She ordered a normal teenage meal - a chicken fries meal. He complained about what she was eating the whole time and then revisited it later at dinner that night. My issue with it, beyond his unrealistic views on weight and nagging her about it, is that he is the one who chose where they would eat. If you want her to eat healthy, then take her someplace that has healthier options. But don't put her in front of something unhealthy that she really likes and then expect her to make the healthy choices. Sometimes she will and sometimes she won't. She's human.

We've seen this example when the media does a story about someone who is so large that they become bedridden. The people in that person's life are shown to continue enabling the behavior by bringing the bedridden person the most horrible food choices. Do I feel compassion for that person who is bedridden? You bet. But I wouldn't contribute to his continued situation by bringing him that type of unhealthy food. Will he find someone else who will? Probably. But it won't be me. And if I were in that person's life, I would do my best to get him medical attention long before it came to that. It's ultimately his choice whether he accepts that attention, but I'm still not going to enable the behavior.

 

[FurryFury]

Concerned yes. Engaged, yes. Influential, yes.

If you think that being sexually dominant puts you in charge of anyone else's addictions that way lies madness. There's one person whose mouth I put the food in. As for the other, the things I put on a plate for him are the right size and the right thing. I set him up with 300 cal premade curries and cans of soup for lunch. The rest is up to him.

You cannot, well, maybe someone can, but I cannot legislate health. I can study it, recommend it, cheerlead for it, set the example (the best way) - but every person has the *right* to their body and their own challenges with it. What wenchie talked about makes sense to me. If M comes to me for help, I help. But trying to mandate "health" from the top down - I've seen couples do this. I've never seen it work when there's a hitch in the relationship. It's the first "acting out" to happen.

These are the types of things a Parent can't control with a two year old much less an adult with an adult UNLESS they want to be helped and are actually willing to do the hard work of adjusting life style.

As for BDSM and weight, my whole state at least 80% of people are very overweight if not morbidly obese. I think it's shocking and sad but that doesn't mean that I look around at my local munch and tie the two together.

To me it's like tying in mental problems or abuse. Yes, you can find a lot of cases that fit but that's also true with the general population.

I happen to be considered thin by most these days. In the past people freaked out about how skinny they thought I was.

However, in my opinion, I'm not thin at all. I'm overweight and need to get fit. It's been a tough year for me. I've let myself go some. Meanwhile everyone else in the house has lost!



In case you are wondering I'm about 5'10" and weight about 145. People assume it's less. I carry it well. Thank god for that!

 

[BeachGurl2]

While I appreciate you might think you did not say it, I think the assumptions were fairly clearly along the same vein. For one thing, commenting on what people at the munch ate and your reaction was covertly making assumptions that that they eat those foods all the time and that is why they are the size they are, and that was the focus of your attention. Chances are some of them do, but I think chances also could be that some may not eat those foods at all at home or elsewhere. Given it was the only food available at the munch from what I gather, some people feel self conscious if they do not eat in a group of where others are eating...sort of draws attention when you don't do as the majority do, and some people find the attention that can attract (and at times pressure to join in or be seen as a snob) more scary than the being thought to be eating something someone else deems unacceptable to be passing their lips. Sometimes it is also seen as impolite and bad manners to not eat in an environment where others are. How do you know some of those people did not eat because of the environment and point of being seen as sociable (yes, eating is seen as a social grace by many, thin and thick), but intending and actually working out extra in the following week to combat the extra calories?

I know in my own case, since cutting chocolate to perhaps 2 grs a week if that, I have been battling weight with far less success (and putting more on) than when I was eating anywhere between 500gr to 1 1/2 kilo of chocolate a week, every week....and apart from taking the chocolate completely out of my diet, I also have eliminated the very few remotely unhealthy things I was eating as occasional treats, which as I was and have been for over a decade a no salt, no fat, little to no sugar diet (sugar only in the form of the chocolate and occasional cake...not every day or even every week thing...and which was usually without any type of icing/frosting) was not a huge change. Doesn't make sense unless you take into account the health issues I am dealing with but I bet if you saw me take one chocolate someone offered me at a munch your immediate thought would be, 'no wonder she has a weight problem when she eats things like that'. Point is, though you are in the fortunate position of being within your weight range, you are not an expert on the lives and health of others, especially people you do not know but choose to judge and condemn through your own assumptions. Brings to mind people interviewed on the BBC last week about the same issue of whether overweight people are that way through their own fault...one lady in particular was very angry about it, and as she pointed out, she had never had a weight problem in her life until she was involved in a serious accident which left her immobile for months through no choice of her own and the pounds piled on. She was around my age or perhaps a little older, and in the gym trying to work it off, but as she pointed out, she did not choose to be injured, she did not choose the weight gain, and despite her workout programme and careful eating, it was not her choice she was not losing the weight.


Catalina

Cat, I always respect your viewpoint, even when we strongly disagree. And it's certainly your right to assume that my point is one of judgment and condemnation. As I have already stated more than once, I not only understand the fact that many people are in the situation where their weight gain and physical health is caused by something other than their food intake, I know about it from personal experience. We all make choices. I eat fast food. I eat greasy diner food. I'm not perfect and I don't expect others to be. I do, however, expect people to take responsibility for their choices. If that makes my position one of judgment and condemnation, then I guess it does.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I wasn't going to say something, but I'm glad you did. That was pretty much my point. If someone had said that fat people are boring, they'd be crucified, but it's ok to say it about skinny people?

Exactly. And I see this often. But since I'm considered 'thin', it's offensive to others if I point it out. And because I'm 'thin', my posting of this thread will be seen by some as judgmental and attacking. But I expected that. No worries.

I was on prednisone, 60 mgs the first time, for six months. We spent six months trying to get me off the prednisone. The next time I was only on it for two months. (My body likes prednisone and I have to taper VERY SLOWLY.) The third time I was getting 150 mg shots, in the hospital, for 10 days. I then went to 60 mg's and I stayed at that for nearly a year. (I think it was 10 months.) My GI said that my metabolism is fucked. (Not in those words, but that's the gist.

I actually have my file flagged to only give me prednisone in a life-and-death situation because I had so many problems with it, not all weight related. It caused severe clinical depression and anxiety, which I had to be medicated for at the time, as well. So not only did I gain a ton of weight and have skin so sensitive that moving hurt, I was also almost catatonic from the Xanax and Norpramine. Which also contributed to my weight issues.

 

[Recidiva]

I wanted to respond to this post separately because I think you bring up some important points. But the fact remains that it is a huge issue in our country. Health care rates are skyrocketing because of our unhealthy habits. We have become a sedentary culture. We have also become a culture of people who have horrible eating habits. It's not stereotyping, it's a fact.

Disneyland has the 'It's a Small World' ride closed for renovations. Someone I work with has a family member who works at Disneyland. I don't know the truth of this, only that it was shared with me, but the reason his family member gave for the renovations is that the design of the ride no longer works because the people are becoming too large. So the boats are no longer large enough and the water is no longer deep enough to handle them.

I travel about every 6 weeks for my job. I can't count the number of times I've had a seatmate who overlapped his/her seat into my seat and made my flight terribly uncomfortable. I can't imagine how much more uncomfortable it would have been if I had been equally large. I've even had seatmates who were so large that the arm rest couldn't come down between us.

There have been numerous studies that show a correlation between our American diet, our sedentary lifestyle, and an increase in both size and health issues. I realize that for some people it is an issue of metabolism and other chemical factors. I know first hand that medical issues can contribute to weight gain.

I'm not trying to minimize your sister's situation in any way. But I think there has to be a happy medium somewhere in this issue. Yes, people can be large and/or overweight and still be in good physical condition. I mentioned a friend of mine early on in exactly that spot. She's one of the most physical fit people I know. And it's very frustrating to her that she can't lose weight. I see her struggle with it. It's even more frustrating for her that we eat a similar diet, she gets tons more physical exercise than I do, and we are as different as night and day in our sizes. I understand and sympathize with her frustration with it.

But . . . there's a fine line between compassion and enabling bad behaviors. And I think that's part of the issue for me. My ex-husband has been monitoring my daughter's food when she is with him because he believes she is overweight (she isn't). So when they were out shopping a couple weeks ago they stopped for lunch. At Burger King. She ordered a normal teenage meal - a chicken fries meal. He complained about what she was eating the whole time and then revisited it later at dinner that night. My issue with it, beyond his unrealistic views on weight and nagging her about it, is that he is the one who chose where they would eat. If you want her to eat healthy, then take her someplace that has healthier options. But don't put her in front of something unhealthy that she really likes and then expect her to make the healthy choices. Sometimes she will and sometimes she won't. She's human.

We've seen this example when the media does a story about someone who is so large that they become bedridden. The people in that person's life are shown to continue enabling the behavior by bringing the bedridden person the most horrible food choices. Do I feel compassion for that person who is bedridden? You bet. But I wouldn't contribute to his continued situation by bringing him that type of unhealthy food. Will he find someone else who will? Probably. But it won't be me. And if I were in that person's life, I would do my best to get him medical attention long before it came to that. It's ultimately his choice whether he accepts that attention, but I'm still not going to enable the behavior.

Thanks for responding. I was afraid my brand of humor, intended to amuse myself, would offend you. Not my intention, just genuinely expressing myself in my way according to my beliefs.

To address the epidemic of abundance, I just have to take socioeconomic and technological advances into account. For the history of the human race, the human body has died early, struggled painfully and had very few food preservation options.

The fact that genomes accustomed to deprivation, disease and hardship take at least a few generations to catch up to antibiotics, air conditioning, car travel and refrigeration is understandable.

The human race is "suffering" from a bout of catastrophic success and it's going to take a bit for lifestyles and adaptation of expectation to adjust. There's plenty of information on the subject and still we need more. Especially we need a revision of the prejudices that surround the subject.

In the middle of all these massive advancements, taking all things into account, I really do find that you are just more on the judgmental side than my sociological approach. And that's okay. I don't really respond to being personally or emotionally offended by fat people. It's not like they're being fat AT you and they're not forcing you to be fat WITH them. It's a choice. One you can't make for them and is a waste of time entirely to be hung up on. It is a reflection of your issues, and not theirs.

I take a sociological and medical approach to why people gain and can't lose weight. For many people whose ancestors lived in deprivation, the introduction of new food sources is devastating. A little compassion for all those causes is my choice of which side of this fence I come down on. I am offended by media simplification and creation of a FEAR of being fat, despite all the data regarding actual health - thin is not healthy. Fat is not unhealthy. The way the thin person treats their body can be horrendous and if you factor in drug use and eating disorders, there's absolutely no medical reason to believe a thin person is "healthier" than a fat person. Sickness isn't always apparent, and the worst sicknesses come from wanting to "look normal" without actually being normal or healthy in the least.

I consider medical and social reasons why people are overweight. I am only concerned for them if they express a concern for themselves. They're adults. They have the right to make whatever choices they want and do what they want with their bodies and lives.

If they're happy, I'm happy for them. If they're unhappy, I'd like them to separate out social views and emotional issues from health issues and deal with them on their terms.

If someone's giving them shit about it, I'll politely remind them it's none of their damned business what another adult chooses to do with their body. Fat is not illegal.

I disagree with all the gyms, health and fitness channels and obsessions, and even in the advent of the Wii Fit (whichIhaveandIloveohboy!) that people don't have access to being nonsedentary if they so choose.

You don't need to drag horses to the trough, as you can't make them drink. Just hang out on the range and admire the variety. Embrace diversity.

As for children, that's difficult. Trying to do the right thing almost always only provides kids with a narrow track they're going to want to rebel against anyway. I have an autistic son who hates anything but white food. What it takes to have him eat some tomato sauce or carrots every day is enough for me to know brains mean business when it comes to food.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Thanks for responding. I was afraid my brand of humor, intended to amuse myself, would offend you. Not my intention, just genuinely expressing myself in my way according to my beliefs.

Not at all. I'm pretty hard to offend. So no worries there.

In the middle of all these massive advancements, taking all things into account, I really do find that you are just more on the judgmental side than my sociological approach. And that's okay. I don't really respond to being personally or emotionally offended by fat people. It's not like they're being fat AT you and they're not forcing you to be fat WITH them. It's a choice. One you can't make for them and is a waste of time entirely to be hung up on. It is a reflection of your issues, and not theirs.

I find it interesting that my comments have lead you to believe that I am offended by overweight people. Why would someone else's physical state offend me? And I don't believe I'm being judgmental when I express concern for the health of others. Oh, I guess you could decide that I'm being judgmental when I comment that I see people who are severely overweight making bad health choices.

My mother is seriously overweight, probably clinically obese. She's always struggled with weight, but started putting it on heavily in her 30s and just continued to increase over time. She has numerous health problems, some of which are genetic - she has Crohn's disease, among others - and some that have developed out of her lifestyle choices (her doctor said this, not me) - insulin-dependent type 2 diabetes. She was raised in the deep South. Her cooking reflects this. Everything is deep fried and then smothered in gravy. She's always cooked that way. I know if I need some comfort food, I can go visit my folks for the weekend and I'll get all I need. Even knowing that her diet is not only contributing to her health problems but also exacerbating them, she refuses to alter her diet. That's a very difficult thing for me to watch. Because if she were willing to alter her diet, she would feel better, may become able to lower her medications (certainly her insulin), and then would, we hope, have a longer life expectancy. But it is her choice to make, not mine. My concern for her has nothing to do with her appearance or actual weight and everything to do with the fact that she will probably die earlier than necessary because of her lifestyle choices.

If that makes me offended by her weight, I guess that's what it makes me. But it is frustrating to see others feel the need to call me judgmental and condemning and offended because of my comments about this. But as I said earlier, it's certainly your right to feel that way. Pointless, I'm guessing, to argue the point.

 

[BeachGurl2]

In case you are wondering I'm about 5'10" and weight about 145. People assume it's less. I carry it well. Thank god for that!

Wouldn't that be considered within the healthy range for you, Fury? I haven't checked the chart for adults recently, but I would imagine you probably look pretty good at that weight.

 

[graceanne]

Exactly. And I see this often. But since I'm considered 'thin', it's offensive to others if I point it out. And because I'm 'thin', my posting of this thread will be seen by some as judgmental and attacking. But I expected that. No worries.

Double standards abound. I probably would never have really noticed it if it weren't for my daughter. lol

I actually have my file flagged to only give me prednisone in a life-and-death situation because I had so many problems with it, not all weight related. It caused severe clinical depression and anxiety, which I had to be medicated for at the time, as well. So not only did I gain a ton of weight and have skin so sensitive that moving hurt, I was also almost catatonic from the Xanax and Norpramine. Which also contributed to my weight issues.

In my case, each time they'd have removed the diseased portion, but that's the WHOLE ENTIRE large instestine and I OBJECT.

I also have depression problems, my skin hurts, I get migraines and chest pains. (When I'm on prednisone my resting heart rate is close to 110 - normally ti's below 80.) And it causes insulin dependent diabetes in me. (I've had my blood sugar up to over 200 - I can't recall the exact number anymore.) Not to mention it makes me a world class bitch. PMS has NOTHING on me when I'm on prednisone. If I was like that all the time, I'd be divorced. I'm actually afraid to be left alone with the kids when I'm on prednisone.

 

[graceanne]

Wouldn't that be considered within the healthy range for you, Fury? I haven't checked the chart for adults recently, but I would imagine you probably look pretty good at that weight.

I'm pretty sure it's low weight, actually. My suggested height (if my back straight) is 5'5 and the correct weight is around 150. Granted, I'm big boned.

 

[Recidiva]

Not at all. I'm pretty hard to offend. So no worries there.



I find it interesting that my comments have lead you to believe that I am offended by overweight people. Why would someone else's physical state offend me? And I don't believe I'm being judgmental when I express concern for the health of others. Oh, I guess you could decide that I'm being judgmental when I comment that I see people who are severely overweight making bad health choices.

My mother is seriously overweight, probably clinically obese. She's always struggled with weight, but started putting it on heavily in her 30s and just continued to increase over time. She has numerous health problems, some of which are genetic - she has Crohn's disease, among others - and some that have developed out of her lifestyle choices (her doctor said this, not me) - insulin-dependent type 2 diabetes. She was raised in the deep South. Her cooking reflects this. Everything is deep fried and then smothered in gravy. She's always cooked that way. I know if I need some comfort food, I can go visit my folks for the weekend and I'll get all I need. Even knowing that her diet is not only contributing to her health problems but also exacerbating them, she refuses to alter her diet. That's a very difficult thing for me to watch. Because if she were willing to alter her diet, she would feel better, may become able to lower her medications (certainly her insulin), and then would, we hope, have a longer life expectancy. But it is her choice to make, not mine. My concern for her has nothing to do with her appearance or actual weight and everything to do with the fact that she will probably die earlier than necessary because of her lifestyle choices.

If that makes me offended by her weight, I guess that's what it makes me. But it is frustrating to see others feel the need to call me judgmental and condemning and offended because of my comments about this. But as I said earlier, it's certainly your right to feel that way. Pointless, I'm guessing, to argue the point.

It's not intended for you to take it personally at all. I'm saying (and a few other people have said) that it wouldn't occur to them to think the way you do.

It's comparable to you saying "I think that person's shoes are hideous and an eyesore. Don't they care about their feet?"

I don't care about shoes. You do. That's the distinction, and I'm describing why I don't think the way you do.

If someone says their shoes hurt, then I'll care.

Please don't take any offense. If the thread title had said "I want a dishonest discussion that bolsters my point of view" I'd have stayed out of it.

I think you feel responsible for other adults. You want to fix them. That makes you want to find a solution. I think you're looking in the wrong places if you want peace on the subject. You're not going to get a world of perfect beings who make all the choices you approve.

I am sorry to hear that your mom is ill, and that's not something I'd attempt to diminish you caring about in any way.

On a side note about families, I'm the youngest. I'm accustomed to being entirely out of control and chaos and my opinion not mattering particularly. I didn't grow up feeling responsible for anyone in my family in any way. My sister however is still trying to micromanage my 80-90 year old parents, and I keep having to tell her..."I know it's hard, but you're going to have to let your parents grow up and leave the nest some day." This isn't to draw any absolutes between you and her, but some of the issues reflect why I think the way I do and she thinks the way she does. She was brought up being overly responsible for everything. I was brought up knowing what I felt or thought was absolutely irrelevant to the big picture. I'm a parent now and I'm trying to find a happy balance between the two. Wisdom to choose the fights I can win. Wisdom to get off battlefields where I'm an unwelcome ghost.

Not being over or under responsible for another adult helped me bring balance and proportion to my life. It made me a better parent than my parents were in ways that generated these issues. I'm trying to encourage that, not tell you that all you have to do is say "fuck it" and it will go away. I'm encouraging you to be responsible only for the things you are actually responsible for and not bleed for all the suffering in the world. Looking for the beauty in people and things beyond their flaws is what I'm encouraging.

 

[CutieMouse]

Wouldn't that be considered within the healthy range for you, Fury? I haven't checked the chart for adults recently, but I would imagine you probably look pretty good at that weight.

A quickie Google showed 5'10" to be 135 - 165# (depending on bone structure); at 5'8" my weight should be anywhere from 127 - 155#.

I'll tell you right now my energy, overall stamina, emotional, physical and mental health is best when I'm 125 - 130# - even if it bothers other people to see me at that weight. If I get over 135#, it starts to impact how I feel/my energy levels.

 

[BeachGurl2]

It's not intended for you to take it personally at all. I'm saying (and a few other people have said) that it wouldn't occur to them to think the way you do.

It's comparable to you saying "I think that person's shoes are hideous and an eyesore. Don't they care about their feet?"

I don't care about shoes. You do. That's the distinction, and I'm describing why I don't think the way you do.

If someone says their shoes hurt, then I'll care.

Please don't take any offense. If the thread title had said "I want a dishonest discussion that bolsters my point of view" I'd have stayed out of it.

I think you feel responsible for other adults. You want to fix them. That makes you want to find a solution. I think you're looking in the wrong places if you want peace on the subject. You're not going to get a world of perfect beings who make all the choices you approve.

I am sorry to hear that your mom is ill, and that's not something I'd attempt to diminish you caring about in any way.

On a side note about families, I'm the youngest. I'm accustomed to being entirely out of control and chaos and my opinion not mattering particularly. I didn't grow up feeling responsible for anyone in my family in any way. My sister however is still trying to micromanage my 80-90 year old parents, and I keep having to tell her..."I know it's hard, but you're going to have to let your parents grow up and leave the nest some day." This isn't to draw any absolutes between you and her, but some of the issues reflect why I think the way I do and she thinks the way she does. She was brought up being overly responsible for everything. I was brought up knowing what I felt or thought was absolutely irrelevant to the big picture. I'm a parent now and I'm trying to find a happy balance between the two. Wisdom to choose the fights I can win. Wisdom to get off battlefields where I'm an unwelcome ghost.

Not being over or under responsible for another adult helped me bring balance and proportion to my life. It made me a better parent than my parents were in ways that generated these issues. I'm trying to encourage that, not tell you that all you have to do is say "fuck it" and it will go away. I'm encouraging you to be responsible only for the things you are actually responsible for and not bleed for all the suffering in the world. Looking for the beauty in people and things beyond their flaws is what I'm encouraging.

I'm not really taking offense, just noting that I expected some to take my position the way you and a few others have. In fact, this discussion has been much more positive that I expected, and I'm very happy about that fact. It's a touchy subject for most people and so is often a discussion that ends up being very negative.

You could be onto something about the wanting to fix it all. I don't think that's where I'm coming from, but I won't discount it. I'm the oldest of 5 and was always the one who was charged with taking care of the others, especially when my abusive, alcoholic step-father was on the rampage. So yes, I still find myself doing that. I don't want bad things to touch those I love and would happily take their pain onto myself if I could. It's part of my nature. Does that have something to do with my view on this? Maybe. I have no idea. I'll have to think about that a bit.

I'm sorry if my tone sounds like I'm offended or in any way put off by your comments. I'm not at all. In fact, I'm enjoying the discussion very much. There has only been one comment on this thread that I found personally offensive, and that was the stereotypical comment earlier about 'the sticks being boring'. But I expected to get at least one of those anyway.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not really taking offense, just noting that I expected some to take my position the way you and a few others have. In fact, this discussion has been much more positive that I expected, and I'm very happy about that fact. It's a touchy subject for most people and so is often a discussion that ends up being very negative.

You could be onto something about the wanting to fix it all. I don't think that's where I'm coming from, but I won't discount it. I'm the oldest of 5 and was always the one who was charged with taking care of the others, especially when my abusive, alcoholic step-father was on the rampage. So yes, I still find myself doing that. I don't want bad things to touch those I love and would happily take their pain onto myself if I could. It's part of my nature. Does that have something to do with my view on this? Maybe. I have no idea. I'll have to think about that a bit.

I'm sorry if my tone sounds like I'm offended or in any way put off by your comments. I'm not at all. In fact, I'm enjoying the discussion very much. There has only been one comment on this thread that I found personally offensive, and that was the stereotypical comment earlier about 'the sticks being boring'. But I expected to get at least one of those anyway.

Oh! Good. Again, happy to talk, and I hope my blunt and rather dark sense of humor doesn't offend. Unfortunately if you want "honest" from me that's what you get

I don't know any answers for you, I'm just offering mine and genuinely hoping they help you and those you love if you can tailor them to suit you.

 

[FurryFury]

Wouldn't that be considered within the healthy range for you, Fury? I haven't checked the chart for adults recently, but I would imagine you probably look pretty good at that weight.

Yes it is. However, I don't like my face or my tummy at this weight and I feel slightly overweight. Like I said most people persist in thinking I'm thin. I'm not, in my own mind.

Lately I've been on the knife's edge of, "I no longer give a fuck and won't worry about being attractive. Let's just relax and try to deal with this body as is and as it will be." and "God, I've got to get a handle on this."

Going to the beach will be a painful exercise in body acceptance this year. I need a workout partner and an exercise Dom!

 

[BiBunny]

I think every community is pretty much a reflection of society as a whole. There are a bunch of overweight/obese people in this country, so it stands to reason that there are a bunch of overweight/obese people into BDSM.

As far as the discussion of weight itself goes, I think people (generally) do love to ostracize fat people because, hey, if THEY'RE thinner than the fat people, then they're somehow better than the fat people, right?

There's a weird irony in this.

Both my parents are tall, large-framed people. Growing up, I was usually at least a head taller than everyone else and outweighed them by a good bit. I've said many a time that I'm built like a man with boobs. Even at a "good" weight, I have hips that are more narrow than my shoulders and no real discernible waist. My shoulders and thighs have always been muscle-bound for a chick.

My mother has always been psychotic about weight. Always. She'll drive you nuts talking about her newest fad diet or weight-loss pill or whatever. You starve to death in her house because all she buys is whatever expensive "lose weight quick" thing is trendy now and will yell if you touch her expensive food. She's 5'9". Even at 130 pounds, she thought she was fat.

We'd go out places, and she'd make fun of how fat some other woman had gotten since she'd last seen her, or how so-and-so was way too big to be wearing that dress, or, at a restaurant, find the fattest people in there and make a point to watch them eat and whisper about all the food they consumed.

You can imagine what kind of effect this had on me. To this day, I still find myself going out to bars and looking for women larger than me and muttering, "Well, thank God, I'm not the fattest bitch in this bar." Then I kick myself for acting like my mother. I have GOT to break that habit.

But that's why I believe that any attempt by other people to stand on some kind of moral high ground about "fat" people is borne of insecurity.

Anyway, that was a minor detour. I'm really going somewhere with this.

I've always been tall and large-framed and carried a bit of extra weight around my tummy, even at my smallest (170 pounds at 5'9"). Living with my mother was hell. After I went on birth control and started gaining weight, I got to where I couldn't stand to be around her. I had to deal with constant "You really should lose weight" and "I'm just worried about your health, you know" (bullshit), etc., etc., etc.

Now, several years later, more than one doctor is convinced that I have PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome. I just don't have insurance or the money to have the tests done. And what insurance company will insure a fat person? None of them. So I'm shit out of luck on getting a concrete diagnosis and some medicine to help me. But what PCOS is is an overabundance of male hormones in a female. (Remember what I said about being built like a man and gaining weight around my midsection like a man a few paragraphs back?) It makes you insulin resistant (which makes you gain weight around the midsection) and throws your metabolism all out of whack and makes you fat. Looking at me, you'd think I'm just a fat, lazy bitch. And in a lot of ways, I am. I've pretty much given up because, truthfully, there ain't a lot I can do for myself at the moment.

What I'm getting at there is that everyone's not what you might think they are.

And as for my mother? Well, she's been having really bad knee trouble the past few years, culminating in a knee replacement a couple of weeks ago. She has to have the other one replaced in the spring. The bad knees have made it hard for her to move around as much as she used to. The result? She's gained weight. My mother, who mocked fat people so much, now weighs slightly over 200 pounds. Nah, she's not much overweight, but I've noticed she's played STFU about my weight ever since she started knowing what it feels like and that it's not as easy to just "stop eating" as she always thought it was.

I'm not saying anyone here is acting this way, just throwing out some observations.

To bring it back to BDSM, I prefer larger men and women because I'm not as afraid I'll hurt them. I want a man big enough to pick me up and move me around. I prefer that my men be at least 6' tall and weigh over 250 pounds. What is normally considered "attractive" by most people's standards just turns me the fuck off. When we went to go see 3 Doors Down a few months ago, I told Kitty I wanted to kidnap Brad Arnold, the lead singer, take him home, fatten him up, and make him my slave boy.