A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

[Etoile]

I see prednisone has come into the conversation. It is why I am fat. That is, prednisone changed my metabolism. Before pred, I could eat whatever I wanted, and I stayed about 110. I never even thought about weight because I was always a stick figure anyway. Then I had to go on pred for my chronic urticaria, and suddenly what I ate DID affect me. I didn't realize this until I was 168. Ever since then, food has been a problem for me. I never thought about food before and now I have obsessed over it for the past six years because of the pred.

But it's not the only thing to blame. After I realized I was now 168 lbs, I went on Weight Watchers and got down to 134. But ever since then I've crept up and up and tried dieting and lost a little here and there but now I am about 198. (I just started WW again on Thursday because I'm tired of being obese.) And THAT is my own fault. The pred made me have to worry about weight; it's the pred that made me fat. But the SIZE I AM is my own doing, my own carelessness.

FYI for the skinny people: Fat people think about every bite we eat. It's hard to enjoy fattening foods because you know they're fattening. So lest anyone think "they eat like that all the time" ... yeah, maybe so, but it's not because we're stupid. We know. We do it anyway, for myriad reasons. But we know.

 

[BeachGurl2]

FYI for the skinny people: Fat people think about every bite we eat. It's hard to enjoy fattening foods because you know they're fattening. So lest anyone think "they eat like that all the time" ... yeah, maybe so, but it's not because we're stupid. We know. We do it anyway, for myriad reasons. But we know.

I don't want my post to make it seem as if I don't realize that everyone is aware of their size, small or large, and that they know healthy from unhealthy and all that is tied up in that. I'm really not coming at this from the angle that you should know better. We're all human. We all make choices. And ultimately it's not my place, or anyone else's for that matter, to tell anyone how to live their lives. That isn't my intent.

Etoile, I'm not making the following statements at you or your post, just a general thought that has occured to me as I've read through all the posts here.

I guess it's just something that's been of concern to me for many reasons. My own struggles with weight and body image issues, watching what my ex is doing to Bratgirl, my mother's issues with weight and health. And then trying to find a partner who is compatible with me and realizing that there are many levels of compatibility. I think we're growing larger as a society and it concerns me. We're literally killing ourselves with unhealthy habits. I know that many people here have read my posts as coming from someone who is shallow and looking for some ripped guy. That couldn't be further from the truth, but I expected to get some responses like that. It's a very touchy topic for most people. And I'm not going to spend time worrying about whether people view my position as shallow or not, because I know the difference.

I find it interesting that it's okay for some to post a personal ad that says they are looking for BBW, but it's not okay for someone to say they are looking for someone who is height/weight proportionate. That it's okay for someone to say that they prefer someone larger for a variety of reasons, but it's not okay for someone to say they want someone to be physically fit. It's another type of double standard. Just as the comment earlier that 'sticks are boring'. And I find it interesting that I'm seen as judgmental by posting what I've said, but those who make negative comments about 'skinny' people aren't.

Because of my past eating disorder and the damage done to my body, I have 2 health issues from it. I took dexatrim back in the day when it was really unhealthy - legal speed, if you will. I built up to about 8 pills a day because they stopped working. I took laxatives when I ate anything. And my diet consisted of iceburg lettuce with lemon, and unsweetened iced tea. Sometimes black coffee. If I was in a situation where I had to actually eat real food, as soon as I was done, I took a laxative. I never could make myself throw up. I guess that's a positive in it all. So I ended up with kidney failure, which is how my eating disorder ended up being diagnosed to begin with. I have to be careful what I eat or drink now so that I don't cause additional problems with my kidneys, especially since my lupus also affects them. My lowest weight was at 17 and I weighed in at 77 pounds. It was pre-Karen Carpenter days, so the way they treated me at the time was to threaten to force feed me in the hospital if I didn't gain weight. I had to visit the doctor once a week to be weighed. I spent about 2 years eating just enough, gaining just enough, to keep them off my back. It wasn't until I got pregnant at 21 that I got real treatment and got healthy again. But it's always there.

The other problem now is that I don't feel hunger the way I'm supposed to. There are times when I don't even realize I haven't eaten until I become lightheaded from low blood sugar. I was visiting friends in GA last year (posters here on Lit) and as we wandered the town he would ask if I was hungry. Of course, my normal response to that question is almost always no. I finally realized he was asking because HE was hungry. So I had to explain my problem to him and tell him that if he was hungry, then he needed to just take us to eat. If food is in front of me, I'll eat some. Otherwise, I may go long periods of time between meals. I keep healthy quick food in my cabinets in my office and eat them by habit. If I skip my morning power bar and go into training sessions, I can literally go all day without consuming any food, just drinking coffee or tea. I try to keep mealtimes as consistent as possible so that I know I eat well. And people say, gosh I wish I forgot to eat, that's a problem I'd love to have. It's not exactly a healthy thing. And it is as much a problem as overeating. But those kinds of thoughtless comments aren't seen as bad the way comments about a heavy person eating ice cream would be interpreted.

I'm not skinny. I'm within a healthy weight range, but could easily stand to lose 10 more pounds. I could be in better physical condition by working out more diligently. So it's not all about 'size'. The point? Everyone has body issues. My thoughts about it stemmed from a combination of the health aspects plus the impact play aspects. And there is a part of me that wonders if the open acceptance of BDSM lends itself to a safer place for those who have body image issues, whether thin or heavy. I'm still wondering about that. That's why I posted the question from a BDSM standpoint rather than a society at large problem.

So just more clarification. Continue on. I'm really getting a lot out of all of the posts here and I appreciate the contributions of all.

 

[graceanne]

I see prednisone has come into the conversation. It is why I am fat. That is, prednisone changed my metabolism. Before pred, I could eat whatever I wanted, and I stayed about 110. I never even thought about weight because I was always a stick figure anyway. Then I had to go on pred for my chronic urticaria, and suddenly what I ate DID affect me. I didn't realize this until I was 168. Ever since then, food has been a problem for me. I never thought about food before and now I have obsessed over it for the past six years because of the pred.

But it's not the only thing to blame. After I realized I was now 168 lbs, I went on Weight Watchers and got down to 134. But ever since then I've crept up and up and tried dieting and lost a little here and there but now I am about 198. (I just started WW again on Thursday because I'm tired of being obese.) And THAT is my own fault. The pred made me have to worry about weight; it's the pred that made me fat. But the SIZE I AM is my own doing, my own carelessness.

FYI for the skinny people: Fat people think about every bite we eat. It's hard to enjoy fattening foods because you know they're fattening. So lest anyone think "they eat like that all the time" ... yeah, maybe so, but it's not because we're stupid. We know. We do it anyway, for myriad reasons. But we know.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand . . . not all fat people eat all the time. Not eating enough can cause weight gain and lack fo weight loss if it's a problem you've had. It's called the 'feast or famine syndrom' or something like that. Your body thinks there's a famine so it holds on to everything it can to keep you alive when there's NO food. I rarely make it over 1000 calories a day, and I GAIN weight. It's very frusterating. When I stay over 1000 calories a day for awhile I lose weight, but just CANNOT eat that much. It makes me ill! Plus, I don't have time - I know I used to eat a lot, but I'm so used to not eating that I just can't seem to find time to eat.

 

[BiBunny]

BG, you know how you say your body doesn't feel hunger like most people's? The reverse can also be true. With the insulin resistance, my blood sugar skyrockets and bottoms out all the time. It wreaks havoc on my metabolism and does exactly what gracie describes, the "famine or feast" thing. I get hungry every two hours. I feel like I'm starving to death. I eat very little, in all actuality, and I feel so stuffed that I believe I could never eat again. Then, I'm starved again in two hours. Insulin resistance. Maybe my own fault, maybe not entirely.

ETA: I'm not arguing with you. I just get really touchy about people talking about fat people in terms of being "worried about their health."

As far as BDSM goes, the truth is, for me, I think that a lot of people would rather connect on an intellectual level. It's hard to find people who share similar sexual predilections. The physical thing is, at best, secondary to the "holy shit, we're on the same page" factor.

 

[BeachGurl2]

BG, you know how you say your body doesn't feel hunger like most people's? The reverse can also be true. With the insulin resistance, my blood sugar skyrockets and bottoms out all the time. It wreaks havoc on my metabolism and does exactly what gracie describes, the "famine or feast" thing. I get hungry every two hours. I feel like I'm starving to death. I eat very little, in all actuality, and I feel so stuffed that I believe I could never eat again. Then, I'm starved again in two hours. Insulin resistance. Maybe my own fault, maybe not entirely.

And I do know about that as well. Both ends of the spectrum are true.

ETA: I'm not arguing with you. I just get really touchy about people talking about fat people in terms of being "worried about their health."

No worries. I don't get the feeling you're arguing. I expected this to be a hot topic for some. And I fully understand why. Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, I get a little hot under the collar when the reverse kinds of comments happen, as I said above. People who say they wish they had my problem of forgetting to eat. Or try to make a big deal out of it when I choose to eat a smaller piece of cake or whatever. It's equally thoughtless and presumptuous. But it isn't seen as such the way comments about overweight people are. So I do understand your upset over that kind of thing, even more than people may realize.

As far as BDSM goes, the truth is, for me, I think that a lot of people would rather connect on an intellectual level. It's hard to find people who share similar sexual predilections. The physical thing is, at best, secondary to the "holy shit, we're on the same page" factor.

I think, for me, the main reason it is an issue of concern for me is that I'm not just looking for a BDSM partner, but a life partner. So that person has to be compatible with my vanilla lifestyle as well. And I have to be compatible with his.

I have dated men who were overweight. I don't discount someone because they are overweight. I discount them when we aren't compatible. Just being overweight won't keep me from dating someone or being interested in someone. If his lifestyle is sedentary, then it will keep me from dating him because we aren't compatible. A person can be thin and not have the same interests I do, even if we may be compatible in the BDSM arena. It's the whole person I'm interested in. This thread just came out of some long held thoughts and questions.

 

[subbie_333]

Some random observations and opinions. None and all of this is directed at anyone in this thread, on this site, in the BDSM lifestyle, in this country, planet, or, galaxy. If you don't like what i say, eh, i'm batshit fucking crazy anyway, so, go fly a kite. nekkid. with a big grin. while doing the hokey pokey. in a thunderstorm.


i think there is a lot of peer pressure in society to be "normal". But, society has gotten "easier" in the sense of transportation (as opposed to walking/cycling places), the availability of food, and, boatloads of entertainment that doesn't exercise enough of the body (TV, video games, INTERNET ). So, not surprising that obesity is becoming a bigger problem, as well as societal pressure to be a certain way.

So, what does this have to do with the BDSM community? Well, i think the BDSM community is more tolerant and accepting of its members than society in general. So, in my opinion, yes, i think this leads to there being more obese people in the BDSM community. And, perhaps more "damaged" people as well. These people feel more comfortable being their damaged selves, believing they will get more acceptance and support than society in general.

( OK PM, i know this is too long for You, so, IM me and i will feed it to You in small spoonfuls )

As far as what people are attracted to and what they state they want in a personal ad, i think that most of the time what someone is "attracted to" has to do with a perception they acquired in their youth and/or related to an early romantic relationship. So, i believe it is like a fetish - some people just prefer BBWs or redheads or tall or skinny. For some it is a "want" - for some it is a "need". As long as it is stated in a positive manner (i.e. "I like trim women" versus "No fat chicks"), then, i don't think it is fair to criticize someone for what they desire.

And, some wants and needs result in a preference of a certain physical type. Somebody mentioned being into ropeplay and that sorta meant smaller women. Others like physical interaction/domination, so, a stronger/larger person becomes more desirable.

So, in summation, eh

P.S. i now wait with baited breath for Netzach to recap and say basically the same thing using 90% fewer words and saying it more eloquently

 

[cherokee_dove]

BG, first off this isn't a flame toward you or anyone else; just to get that across.

But your statement below hit home because i had a sister (and yes, she is the one who died about 9 months ago) who had a water tumor in her stomache that was inoperable.

I travel about every 6 weeks for my job. I can't count the number of times I've had a seatmate who overlapped his/her seat into my seat and made my flight terribly uncomfortable. I can't imagine how much more uncomfortable it would have been if I had been equally large. I've even had seatmates who were so large that the arm rest couldn't come down between us.

There have been numerous studies that show a correlation between our American diet, our sedentary lifestyle, and an increase in both size and health issues. I realize that for some people it is an issue of metabolism and other chemical factors. I know first hand that medical issues can contribute to weight gain.

Before she got the tumor, she was in pretty healthy shape. She walked everywhere, and did the gym thing and stayed healthy. But she was 6'2". And she was big bone structured because of her height. So she was healthy at 185 lbs.

Once she found out she had that tumor, she went into a state of total depression and stopped eating. Her doctors told her she needed to get back up to the 185 to maintain her health. With her depression and state of mind, she ballooned over that amount drastically. She ended up weighing 296 lbs.

This next part may make some queasy, so if so; dont read on


When the funeral home people drained the fluids from her body, and before starting procedures on the tumor; that tumor stuck out almost 1 foot from her left side.

When they drained it, there was over 50 pounds of liquid in it. And to this day, i dont see why they called it a water tumor; because that stuff was not all water. It was a drastic sized tumor, and thats why the doctors said inoperable.

She used to live in Alaska. She said she wanted to come home to die. The doctors had already told her that was going to happen; no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

We all helped pay for that final trip because American Airlines forced her to pay for 3 seats, right in the center aisle; because of that tumor and her size from it!


It is a shame this country mostly looks down on people who are overweight. They dont know the individuals reasons for being overweight, and most automatically assume it is because they are lazy slobs that pig out. And thats not always true.

Sorry, long rant; but it finally is off my chest.

 

[Netzach]

There is really no way to explain to a person who's never been on pred what it does to you. The only conversations I ever had that reflected my new reality on it were with binge and purge bulemics.

I would make a casserole - and eat it.

And still be hungry.

I have very little patience for the impatience of other people with appearances. I spent a lot of a year pretty much a shut in because my already round face had swollen to proportions I didn't want anyone to see.

My mother would tell me over the phone, it can't be that bad, put on some shades and take a walk. Then she visited. Saw.

 

[graceanne]

There is really no way to explain to a person who's never been on pred what it does to you. The only conversations I ever had that reflected my new reality on it were with binge and purge bulemics.

I would make a casserole - and eat it.

And still be hungry.

I have very little patience for the impatience of other people with appearances. I spent a lot of a year pretty much a shut in because my already round face had swollen to proportions I didn't want anyone to see.

My mother would tell me over the phone, it can't be that bad, put on some shades and take a walk. Then she visited. Saw.

Yeah, my family is finatics about taking pictures. I went to a family function and caught my aunt with a camera pointed at me. I said "please. don't. I don't want to go into history looking like this." Normally she'd have just waited 'til I wasn't looking and took a picture anyway, but I looked so bad she didn't take any pictures of me.

AND when i was telling my mom this, before I got to the end of the story, she got the LOOK in her eyes and said 'And did she stop?' I was so awful that my mom understood not wanting pictures of me taken.

 

[FurryFury]

Yes, steroids and many other drugs can really do things to you. My Dad was on them for decades for his Ulcerated Colitis.

I didn't realize just how much it affected him because I'd never known him when he wasn't taking them. Late in his life he got off them and the change was a wonderful shock. A lot of his rage and over the top behavior was just gone.

Even when I get a steroid shot for my allergies I see a change for a short while.

 

[BeachGurl2]

BG, first off this isn't a flame toward you or anyone else; just to get that across.

But your statement below hit home because i had a sister (and yes, she is the one who died about 9 months ago) who had a water tumor in her stomache that was inoperable.



Before she got the tumor, she was in pretty healthy shape. She walked everywhere, and did the gym thing and stayed healthy. But she was 6'2". And she was big bone structured because of her height. So she was healthy at 185 lbs.

Once she found out she had that tumor, she went into a state of total depression and stopped eating. Her doctors told her she needed to get back up to the 185 to maintain her health. With her depression and state of mind, she ballooned over that amount drastically. She ended up weighing 296 lbs.

This next part may make some queasy, so if so; dont read on


When the funeral home people drained the fluids from her body, and before starting procedures on the tumor; that tumor stuck out almost 1 foot from her left side.

When they drained it, there was over 50 pounds of liquid in it. And to this day, i dont see why they called it a water tumor; because that stuff was not all water. It was a drastic sized tumor, and thats why the doctors said inoperable.

She used to live in Alaska. She said she wanted to come home to die. The doctors had already told her that was going to happen; no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

We all helped pay for that final trip because American Airlines forced her to pay for 3 seats, right in the center aisle; because of that tumor and her size from it!


It is a shame this country mostly looks down on people who are overweight. They dont know the individuals reasons for being overweight, and most automatically assume it is because they are lazy slobs that pig out. And thats not always true.

Sorry, long rant; but it finally is off my chest.

I'm so very sorry for your loss, Cherokee_Dove. You have nothing to apologize for here.

I've mentioned several times on this thread that I fully understand medical and chemical issues that cause weight gain. And that cause difficulties in losing weight. There are as many reasons for people being overweight as there are people who are overweight. Not all of it comes down to eating habits and sedentary lifestyles.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Yes, steroids and many other drugs can really do things to you. My Dad was on them for decades for his Ulcerated Colitis.

I didn't realize just how much it affected him because I'd never known him when he wasn't taking them. Late in his life he got off them and the change was a wonderful shock. A lot of his rage and over the top behavior was just gone.

Even when I get a steroid shot for my allergies I see a change for a short while.

There were times when I was on prednisone that I didn't want to be left alone with my kids because my temper was so close to the surface and I couldn't control it. I just wanted to be in a room by myself. And there are NO pictures of me during that time.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I have very little patience for the impatience of other people with appearances.

While I realize that most people will assume that's what this thread is about, and won't believe me when I say it isn't, it isn't about appearance. But saying it won't make anyone believe it. So I'm not sure why I am bothering to state it yet again.

 

[FurryFury]

There were times when I was on prednisone that I didn't want to be left alone with my kids because my temper was so close to the surface and I couldn't control it. I just wanted to be in a room by myself. And there are NO pictures of me during that time.

*HUG*

Can you imagine if you'd been on that stuff for over 30 years? Do you think you could have kept a clear view of who you were when off the stuff versus who you were on the stuff?

What if everyone else blamed you for how you were and for your disease which, to them, clearly was because you couldn't handle stress well?

It kills me that we thought that about him.

 

[graceanne]

There were times when I was on prednisone that I didn't want to be left alone with my kids because my temper was so close to the surface and I couldn't control it. I just wanted to be in a room by myself. And there are NO pictures of me during that time.

Yep. I had someone helping me with the kids when I was on prednisone. Once K got caught in traffic, and I was left for the kids for almost two hours. He got home and I locked myself in a room and cried. It'd taken all the energy I'd possessed (limited though it was) not to KILL them. Or abuse them or scream at them. I was so MAD at K for getting caught in traffic, even though it wasn't his fault.

But then who said that a prednisone rage is logical, hm? Suffice it to say a lot of D/s goes out the window when I'm on prednisone. I remember throwing a ROYAL tantrum because I couldn't find my barretts.

 

[graceanne]

*HUG*

Can you imagine if you'd been on that stuff for over 30 years? Do you think you could have kept a clear view of who you were when off the stuff versus who you were on the stuff?

What if everyone else blamed you for how you were and for your disease which, to them, clearly was because you couldn't handle stress well?

It kills me that we thought that about him.

It reminds me of my stepmom's dad. He was an asshole, would just FLY into rages and beat the shit out of the kids. In his fourties he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was put on insulin and suddenly he's this sweet, mild mannered man who never loses his temper.

 

[Netzach]

Yeah, I definitely agree with your observations. Although as a tourist you only ever get a snapshot of a place, my experiences in NYC bore out the impression I took away from LA regarding USA citizens and obesity in general.

Plus, how does a population in a mall differ spectacularly from those driving around a city YC? I can't say I follow your logic there. If anything, I'd say I saw just as many obese drivers - if not more - than those I saw bothering to walk further than the minimum distance from a parking space to a cash register.

I also saw a morbidly obese young woman in head to toe designer clothing, with a ridiculous amount of makeup and hair products, a very expensive pair of shoes on and a designer purse, carrying one of those tiny handbag dogs, which was also decked out in matching designer gear. I mean... why? What's the point of spending a small fortune on your appearance if you're not going to cosmetically enhance yourself by eating a bit less and doing a bit more? I have to say, that lady made me chuckle in an 'only in LA' fashion.

Why on earth would you have to feel so crappy about yourself if you are fat that you don't feel you have the right to dress and groom fabulously? This is better how?

Maybe she has an inoperable water filled tumor and is living up her last 6 months. Maybe she already LOST 100 of 400 pounds and finally feels human again. And here comes the culture to say "how funny it is that you feel you deserve to SPOIL yourself you uppity heifer."

Jesus. This really sucks. Personally I also think I look good in latex and I'm FINE not looking like Angelina Jolie who I think is a CGI'd stick insect weirdo. Maybe the fashion police should inform me I'm a joke, though they'll also have to convince the men lining up to lick my giant shiny ass.

It's not just YOU it's the culture, Velvet. It's so horribly broken. I'm sorry to respond harshly, this just really upset me.

It's this fat phobic "fat is DISEASE so it's fine for me to sport my phobia, these people who look scary to me can't possibly be healthy" mentality I see all over the place.

I also realize that obesity contributes to and causes some horrible illnesses. But so does smoking. So does drinking to excess. So do recreational drugs. So does being so OCD you can't function normally - there are a lot of ways to be sick other than being fat. But it's like "well at least I'm not fat" is the new "safety zone."

I've actually found a lot more MENTAL health among people carting a few extra pounds. Not like 30-50 or more, but maybe 15-20. The times I've hung with really skinny and put together women, I'm left thinking "thank God I'm not that much of a mess" on average. Personality disorders. Suicide attempts. A much stronger and pervasive sense of self hate and an insane craving for body perfection that I've been mercifully free of. There but for the grace of God. It loops around again when I hang with really obese women, the same patterns, not always, but for some people the fat is put on as emotional insulation and all that classic jazz.

It's the people who have a fat roll and don't really give a shit I'm talking about. This seems the healthiest of all to me, if some regular walking and fresh veggies are part of it and a glass of wine before bed. And hot sex. What more do you need?

Then again, finding any women without body hate is damn near a miracle at any size.

We need sick people so we can feel healthy. It's why we lock the insane away. That went out of style so fat is the new hysteric.

 

[Essene]

This is an issue I run into all the time. They want someone 'skinny but hot' and 'arm candy' but they are slovenly and unkempt. It's pretty common here. I saw a beat up old pick up truck with a very overweight guy probably in his 40s wearing a dirty wife beater and grungy hair with a bumper sticker that said 'no fat chicks'. I think the irony escaped him.


Well, Phoenix is hot. But there are mountainous towns that actually get several feet of snow. So we have both. And yes, I'd need something very warm because I hate the cold!


I can totally relate to all of this, Muse. I had a coffee meet with someone I'd met on an online dating site. We had exchanged pics and had enjoyed very good emailing over a couple weeks. He was what I considered to be average appearance, not overly good looking, but not bad looking either. When I walked into Starbucks, he was already there. As I walked towards him, he rose, and looked me up and down very slowly. When I was about 3 feet in front of him with my hand outstretched for a handshake, he said to me, "Well, it's not a love match, but I'll do you." Oh really? I didn't say anything, kind of mumbled a 'thanks' and turned around and walked out.

Ugh. This is exactly why I have huge anxiety about meeting people online. I do not judge folks that way, and I detest and fret about being judged. If you appear to be a good person, intelligent, we have stuff in common; then I will give you a chance. I don't see anything wrong with someone stating a preference, but don't tell me that you love my personality, you want to meet me, be okay with recent photos, and then do that whole up-turned nose snobbish thing at me. Should I have sent an up-close shot of my thigh cellulite or something?

99% of the time I'm like way cuter than them anyway!

Some people here may consider my viewpoint shallow. I don't believe it is because it's not about appearance, it's about physical activity and physical health. His viewpoint was shallow. I may have a lot in common with someone who is physically inactive and therefore overweight. But the fact of the matter is, if he is physically inactive, we don't have enough things in common to have any kind of life together. I don't want a relationship with someone who is going to while away his time in his barcalounger watching TV while I go out hiking and camping and traveling and doing other outdoorsy things with other people. No. I'm not doing that. (Sorry, off track there for a minute.)

I don't see you as shallow. Not at all, but I think Recidiva made some excellent points earlier. I think she and I concur about personal issues affecting your outlook on other folks. I think you're loverly, but I still maintain that viewpoint, and you seem cool enough to be okay with that. Moving on...

So if it's a thing strictly about activity, and health, why did so much of the original post center around weight? Just food for thought...

Like you, I tend to internalize it. I think it has to do with that early training. I hope that you're able to find balance within yourself and get back what you feel you've lost. It took me over a year to heal from the damage I allowed my ex-husband to do to me. But once I did, I think I did okay. Oh, sure, I still have my moments. His damage combined with my already skewed vision of myself all rear up on occasion. It's just part of the baggage I carry. So I go through periods of feeling like I'm unworthy or unattractive or have nothing to offer. But I don't allow myself to wallow in it. I give myself the short pity party and then move on. It's what you do to survive, I think.

Yes, I hope so as well. for you.The pain is still fresh though, so I think I'll still do my intermittent wallowing thingy for awhile yet. Bear with me folks...

So, what does this have to do with the BDSM community? Well, i think the BDSM community is more tolerant and accepting of its members than society in general. So, in my opinion, yes, i think this leads to there being more obese people in the BDSM community. And, perhaps more "damaged" people as well. These people feel more comfortable being their damaged selves, believing they will get more acceptance and support than society in general.

Hmm. Valid point subbie dahling. Maybe you're not just a piece of meat after all.

( OK PM, i know this is too long for You, so, IM me and i will feed it to You in small spoonfuls )

As far as what people are attracted to and what they state they want in a personal ad, i think that most of the time what someone is "attracted to" has to do with a perception they acquired in their youth and/or related to an early romantic relationship. So, i believe it is like a fetish - some people just prefer BBWs or redheads or tall or skinny. For some it is a "want" - for some it is a "need". As long as it is stated in a positive manner (i.e. "I like trim women" versus "No fat chicks"), then, i don't think it is fair to criticize someone for what they desire.

Listen freshy. Just for the record, I read the whole thing all by myself!

I don't see anything wrong with having a preference, unless you have something against short women with attitude.

We need sick people so we can feel healthy. It's why we lock the insane away.

They told me it was for my own personal good. Those bastards!

In all seriousness though, I think all of my buttons have been pushed and severely starting at a very young age. Societal pressure does not help. I accept the fact that I'll always have weird issues...I keep them in check for the most part.

I try to be balanced. I try to be healthy, but most of all, I watch how my behavior and others around my kid affect her. When I was a kid I made lots of mental notes as to how I would NOT parent my future children.

Right now, I'm sitting with my computer in my lap, and to the right of me in a nice brown box - which contains my mothers new attempt at a fad diet.

My surrogate (emotional) mother aka my grandmother was a high functioning anorexic who worked weighing people at weight watchers.

I used to have food taken away from me as a kid. Not because I was over eating and already had enough, but because they were concerned that I would gain weight. Other kids got treats, but I could not have them. (It all started one day when I was four and the pediatrician told my mother that I was heavy - FOR MY AGE- not my height, for my age- she obsessed about it constantly after that.)

I look at photos, from when I was 4 and 5 (when all of that crap began)and I was not fat. I was a tall kid. I was taller than everyone else until middle school.

All of this fucked with me. I'm fucked. I accept it, but I'm aware of it. I internalize, but I don't condone folks judging others so harshly. Empathy is a great thing.

 

[bridgeburner]

If the concern is about health and not about looks then why is the thread titled "BDSM and Weight?" Why not "BDSM and Health?"

BG2,

I think you've been pretty considerate overall, but the basic issue remains that you didn't start this thread because of slim people who smoke or drink or do drugs or have high cholesterol or other health issues, you started this thread because you've been encountering a lot of fat people and certain things about that trouble you.

There is nothing wrong with that. It's your right to feel how you feel and like what you like. No one has much control over what or whom s/he is attracted to or finds aesthetically pleasing and it isn't a character flaw not to be attracted to fat people or thin people or redheads or baldies or Pre-Columbian pottery or whatever.

I mention all of this because I have never had anyone but a doctor express concern for my health who didn't really just mean they'd find me more attractive if I were thinner. I suppose it has happened to someone somewhere, but in my experience and the anecdotal evidence I've collected, fat people get comments about their health because those concerned people would feel like assholes if they said "You're unattractively fat."

-B

 

[graceanne]

My step grandma weighed almost 400 lbs. She's five feet tall. She went on a special diet to lose it and began to exercise. When she'd be running, people would slow down their cars to yell nasty things at her about her weight.

I'm not saying this about anyone specifically, but this thing about being fat has nothing to do with 'that persons health'. Let's be honest, the majority of the world could care LESS about 'that person' as long as 'that person' doesn't affect there life. If people were that worried about 'that persons' health, then more smokers would have strangers stopping to make comments. People, skinny people included, would be worried about eating a hamburger in public. (I don't care if you put on weight from it, all that grease is NOT GOOD for your heart. Period.)

And we keep saying that it's the new thing, but I don't think it's new. I think that there's a specific way that you're encouraged to look, and if you don't you are treated badly. There was a time when obesity was thought of as attractive, and it was the skinny girls who had a hard time of it.

Heck, Marilyn Monroe used to be thought of as flat out sexy (I still think she is). She wore what would be a size 12 these days. (I checked that with snopes - she didn't wear a 16, but a 12.) The next generation people in a 12 might be thought of as sexy, too.

 

[Essene]

If the concern is about health and not about looks then why is the thread titled "BDSM and Weight?" Why not "BDSM and Health?"

*nod*

 

[bridgeburner]

Why on earth would you have to feel so crappy about yourself if you are fat that you don't feel you have the right to dress and groom fabulously? This is better how?

"Health" has become the banner under which we can continue to ridicule and disparage the fat. Everybody knows it's rude if not downright cruel to make fun of others, but if we can do it for their own good, then not only do we not have to admit that we are mean-spirited, we can actually pat ourselves on the back for our cruelty since it's all for a good cause.

If we were really concerned with helping fat people for their health, we'd be more scientifically rigorous in our research and methodology dealing with health and weight. If we were really concerned about helping fat people we wouldn't have a multi-billion dollar industry that grows every year while not actually helping people to improve their health --- or even lose weight.

If we truly looked at obesity as a health issue then we wouldn't spend so much time treating it like a character flaw. Sure, we know that obesity can cause health issues, but with few exception we don't really believe that people are fat for any reason other than laziness and gluttony.

Think about it, do we think that alcoholics are just lazy? Heroin addicts? We recognize these addictions as medical conditions that need medical solutions, not just a bunch of folks telling them they're drunks and junkies and to snap out of it.

Until we approach obesity in the same way --- without judgement and with an eye toward biological cause --- then we'll continue to have fat people who will either succeed or fail to kick their habit not only without much help but with a world full of people hurling abuse at them them the entire time.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Why on earth would you have to feel so crappy about yourself if you are fat that you don't feel you have the right to dress and groom fabulously? This is better how?

Maybe she has an inoperable water filled tumor and is living up her last 6 months. Maybe she already LOST 100 of 400 pounds and finally feels human again. And here comes the culture to say "how funny it is that you feel you deserve to SPOIL yourself you uppity heifer."

Jesus. This really sucks. Personally I also think I look good in latex and I'm FINE not looking like Angelina Jolie who I think is a CGI'd stick insect weirdo. Maybe the fashion police should inform me I'm a joke, though they'll also have to convince the men lining up to lick my giant shiny ass.

It's not just YOU it's the culture, Velvet. It's so horribly broken. I'm sorry to respond harshly, this just really upset me.

It's this fat phobic "fat is DISEASE so it's fine for me to sport my phobia, these people who look scary to me can't possibly be healthy" mentality I see all over the place.

I also realize that obesity contributes to and causes some horrible illnesses. But so does smoking. So does drinking to excess. So do recreational drugs. So does being so OCD you can't function normally - there are a lot of ways to be sick other than being fat. But it's like "well at least I'm not fat" is the new "safety zone."

I've actually found a lot more MENTAL health among people carting a few extra pounds. Not like 30-50 or more, but maybe 15-20. The times I've hung with really skinny and put together women, I'm left thinking "thank God I'm not that much of a mess" on average. Personality disorders. Suicide attempts. A much stronger and pervasive sense of self hate and an insane craving for body perfection that I've been mercifully free of. There but for the grace of God. It loops around again when I hang with really obese women, the same patterns, not always, but for some people the fat is put on as emotional insulation and all that classic jazz.

It's the people who have a fat roll and don't really give a shit I'm talking about. This seems the healthiest of all to me, if some regular walking and fresh veggies are part of it and a glass of wine before bed. And hot sex. What more do you need?

Then again, finding any women without body hate is damn near a miracle at any size.

We need sick people so we can feel healthy. It's why we lock the insane away. That went out of style so fat is the new hysteric.

I'm sorry that my post offended you so much. If something amuses me, I'll chuckle. I wasn't standing in front of the woman laughing my ass off and I freely admit that I didn't stand there and consider all the possible medical reasons why she could be stomping around like a baby elephant in head to toe Burberry. It's not my problem, I don't know her and I'm not likely to, it was just that the incongruous combination of her haute couture and massive size made me smile. So flame me... oh yeah, you did.

I am well aware that thin does not equal healthy and I made the same comparisons that you did between over-weightness and drink/nicotine abuse further down the thread. I don't consider myself to be a compassion free zone or a judgemental bully just because I found someone's appearance amusing. People often find my decision to be vegan hysterical and I go right ahead and let them laugh.

The fact remains that the majority of obese people in the western world are either gluttons or not addressing issues like metabolism, medication or food intolerance in the way that they should. Obesity appears to be one of the last bastions of utter insanity when it comes to health. You can tell a chain smoker or alcoholic that they're being stupid and self destructive but if you offend an obese person these days it's somehow completely judgemental and unfair. Nobody ever considers that half the planet is starving to death so that the other half can keep themselves in MacDonalds and Liposuction. As a global 'epidemic' obesity is simply obscene.

I have seen first hand what morbidly obese people go through when their weight becomes such a debilitating condition that every basic human function becomes pretty much impossible. I have seen a person loaded onto the floor of an emptied ambulance by a fire truck and hoisted out again at the other end. I saw that person lifted by a heavy duty hoist onto a huge bed that was weight tested to 600lb, I have treated bedsores caused by morbid obesity, diabetes, poor circulation, heart disease, skin tearing, chronic bronchitis/asthma, apnea, dangerously high cholesterol/blood pressure, all that crap. I have been part of a team of the 8 staff required to turn them in bed, hoist them onto a gigantic commode or change the diaper on the ass they can't wipe anymore. The knowledge that someone is capable of putting themselves in that awful situation because of a pathological addiction to food just completely horrifies me.

The question is though, at what point do you risk offending someone by saying 'your lifestyle and diet are a very bad idea and you must change your ways asap in order to avoid serious health problems and an early death.' At what stage of an obese person's weight gain do you cease to care whether their size is a lifestyle choice or where they can shop for G strings and start being the voice of doom? You wouldn't watch an alcoholic drink themselves to death without trying to intervene, why should obesity be any different?

I'm not talking here about people with glandular or metabolic problems who are on the cuddly side of their BMI. I'm talking about the very small percentage of people who are capable of eating themselves to death. But when does one become the other? At what point does a BBW become a food addict? There are no clear lines in the sand, which is why I firmly believe that overweight people should be warned about their lifestyle and encouraged to live more healthily as early as possible. Being diplomatic and polite until someone is as wide as they are tall is the coward's way out and a huge disservice to people who cannot maintain a healthy weight, whatever the underlying cause. If someone is drinking too heavily, you don't wait until they're sinking a litre of vodka for breakfast before you talk to them about it and encourage them to seek treatment.

Sure, they have every right to tell you to fuck off and mind your own business, but wouldn't you rather have tried?

 

[catalina_francisco]

But it is frustrating to see others feel the need to call me judgmental and condemning and offended because of my comments about this. But as I said earlier, it's certainly your right to feel that way. Pointless, I'm guessing, to argue the point.

I think it is very difficult not to see you as being judgmental and condemning when you repeatedly make statements like these which were in your first post, and followed along the same lines in other posts...

I am not physically attracted to men who are very overweight. I prefer a man who takes care of himself and who is physically active. ....

I have found over the last few years of online and real life dating that many of the men I meet who are in the lifestyle have been very overweight. I’ve actually stopped dating completely, largely because of this. While I am physically attracted to large men, I prefer them to be physically fit, or at least height/weight proportionate. And a part of me wonders about the level of control a Dominant has over his own life if he is overweight. (Yes, let the flames begin.) When I think of volunteering to give my power up to someone else, while I don’t expect perfection because that’s just plain silly, I do expect that I’m giving my power to someone who has the ability to control not only himself, but me as well. And weight or physical fitness is one thing that I would expect someone who is in control to actually be in control of....


It took everything I could muster to look at people when they spoke because of the food they were eating. All of the people in the room were exceptionally nice people and I enjoyed myself immensely. But I won’t attend a munch again that includes eating.

Like it or not they show you have a huge problem which you are trying to project onto those you stand in judgment of and find not the type people you wish to associate with no matter how nice they are, given your statement about the munch....or at the very least, you do not wish to associate with them in an environment which is screaming in your head they are just so wrong in the way they are conducting themselves around food. You are repeatedly making assumptions about why people are the size they are, and believing them to be doing nothing positive about it, even though when confronted over it you say you know some cannot help it ...but then go off again about people being overweight unnecessarily and your aversion to them.

As for expecting a PYL to be of the 'right proportions' or he is not capable enough of controlling himself to control you, you are not only living in a fantasy world and expecting PYL's to be perfect (yes, I know you said you weren't, but you do have a fantasy image in your head of the 'perfect' Dominant), but once again you are making assumptions based on your uninformed observations. I have yet to meet a PYL who is real who does not have some type of issue they live with...some days they can control it, some days it gets to them more than they would like, sometimes they have to wrestle with it for the rest of their lives, and sometimes they have an issue they just cannot face or deal with..and sometimes as a pyl you can be the one to help and support them beyond that. Doesn't make them less dominant, just makes them human as opposed to an egotistical twit trying to pretend he is something he isn't and never will be looking for the perfect pyl to compliment his illusion.

You say you are not being judgmental and yet you admit you stopped dating because you couldn't find a PYL who fit your physical specification?!! Does that sound non-judgmental to you, not to mention, practical? You are entitled to your desires, likes and dislikes, but usually it is better to judge a person on who they are, not whether they look good enough to pass your list of requirements and be seen with you. And no, this is not because I am having a slight weight battle at the moment as I also told people with similar view this when I was 110lb. I just think in a few years, if you continue this way you will wake up one day and be seriously saddened to find yourself alone and lonely when you bypassed so many lovely people just because you felt they were not looking after their health and the right size. In the interests of discussing weight gain being unhealthy...I actually have had a barrage of tests in the last year which I have been told show I have perfect cholesterol levels (and this has been the case for as long as I have been having it tested over the years) and the quickest heart recovery rate the technicians giving the test in the hospital had ever seen..so no, it isn't necessarily weight which causes health issues, nor is it necessarily so that those carrying weight are experiencing health issues related to that weight.

I am not attacking you, just trying to help you see it as others are and you say you do not understand. I am also concerned that you do have huge issues in this area which might be worth trying to discover why so you can gain some control over it as opposed to it controlling you and your life to the point you avoid dating and being in an environment where people you deem overweight might be eating....sheesh, that leaves little but staying at home behind closed doors! I would think these boundaries are making serious impacts on your life and life choices which over time could rob you of a happy and full life with someone you could love and be loved by. You know, there is nothing to say that just because someone is overweight when you meet them that they are always going to be so...nothing to say they might not have already lost a significant amount of weight and still losing...your assumptions could make you pass by the love of your life without ever knowing.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have visited LA and NYC and both times, I saw many more obese people than I generally see in the UK (although people in the UK are also getting bigger).

Interestingly, the report last week said the UK now has the highest incidence of obesity in Europe. The interviews I saw were in response to the report and the growing push to penalise and focus on people with weight issues now smoking is falling into the supposed realm of managed...I thought it was good they actually interviewed people who had weight issues through no fault of their own as well as those who knew it was due to their lifestyle choices and had already begun to change that. I do think that those who have never had a weight issue find it difficult to relate why it can be such an issue, not to mention willing to accept that some people just do not have a choice. A member of my family for example is so thin you could stand them behind a post and not see them...it prevented them living their dream of being in the police force, and no amount of advice, treatment and diets from doctors and dieticians has made any difference over the years...it is just how they are built and their metabolism which makes it impossible to gain even a pound in weight.

As to the argument this thread is about unhealthy choices and the wisdom of people to make them, some in the mainstream are only too ready to pronounce the lifestyle as an unhealthy choice...sure hope that doesn't mean we all conform to the judgment and ideal and go vanilla!

Catalina