A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

[Etoile]

I have yet to find anything that fits well. I live in a smaller area though and don't have a lot of choices as a bigger person. I have a couple pair of lower cut Levi's that fit me pretty well, otherwise I'm pretty much looking at wearing a belt.

Yeah, Kiyonna was a web order...she had bought three because she was excited about them but then ended up returning them all.

 

[bridgeburner]

We can't have any kind of discourse about weight in our society because it always comes back to the idea that it's not done with compassion and understanding. I disagree. I think that I've tried very hard not to offend anyone, but they are offended all the same because I said something about weight. It wouldn't have mattered what it was that I said, those people would have been offended anyway. So to those I'm not really going to respond because you can't have any kind of communication with people who react in emotion just based on the topic. I think that no matter how this is approached in the media or the health care field, people will be offended. That's how it is.

We can and should have discussions about weight, but they are more often than not doomed from the beginning because many people who instigate them demand from the start that everyone agree on a specious fact: that the only reason most people are overweight is because they are lazy and gluttonous.

I'm not talking about giving a pass to folks who have other medical issues like lupus, glandular disorders and steroid prescriptions. That still leaves 99% of fat people in the lazy glutton categorey and, as someone pointed out earlier, with the increase world-wide in obesity "lazy and gluttonous" is at best oversimplistic and at worst a falsehood that enobles and perpetuates the abuse of those who are overweight.

So, if we want to truly discuss weight, we need to get over our conviction that it's a character deficiency and start looking at the real medical and social causes. Depression, mouth hunger and lack of satiety are just the tip of the iceberg so far as medicine is concerned. Poverty, high calorie low nutrient convenience food, car culture, lack of public transit and the move from physical labor to sedentary white collar employment are some of the social issues to be discussed.

Nobody expects a heroin addict to kick his addiction by himself. Chemical dependency is recognized as a disease that needs understanding and medical treatment and yet everyone just assumes that kicking a food habit is something that any self-respecting person with half a brain should be able to do. And if you can't or don't then it's because you're a lousy human being.

Think about it this way: To kick a heroin habit the only thing required, at base, is to not do heroin. That's one thing. Do not do heroin.

This shouldn't be all that hard. Heroin is relatively hard to obtain due to its illegality and cost. Kicking heroin should be kind of like trying to kick a diamond habit, and yet we understand that it's one of the hardest things a person might ever have to do. We understand that a lot of people won't make it.

But what if your addiction is food? You can't just quit eating food. You can't even avoid food. What you have to do is only do a little food. Like you would only do a little heroin. Every day. For the rest of your life.

Until we can look at food addiction with the same lack of personal judgement that we address drug and alcohol addiction then we can't talk about weight because all anyone wants to say is "Quit eating fatty."



As to your other points:

The reason the thread is titled 'BDSM and weight' is because I'm specifically talking about how clinical obesity seems to be becoming the norm in BDSM and I wondered how that affects a lot of things...

This was addressed and people said they didn't find your situation to be true on a widespread scale. You just happen to live in a particularly fat BDSM community.

My decision to stop dating at the moment was a combination of things, largely tied to the way people view honesty and openness on the internet. NOT because the people I seem to keep meeting are overweight and sedentary, but because they keep lying about it, among other things....

This did get lost in the shuffle due to any number of reasons, but my advice is to quit going on blind dates. Require a recent picture and provide one yourself. I won't meet any online contact who is romantically/sexually interested in me without exchanging pictures that can be verified as recent.

Why do unattractive people feel that they can lie and get away with it? Either because they don't feel they're really all that unattractive or because they figure they've got a truly spectacular personality that will win you over. Speaking from experience most people are more deluded about their personalities than they are about their looks.

-B

 

[serijules]

"If you want her to eat healthy, then take her someplace that has healthier options. But don't put her in front of something unhealthy that she really likes and then expect her to make the healthy choices."

I can't think of a single thing at Burger King that he could have expected her to order and not harp on her about.

Oh, wait, water!

Anyhow....

I just don't understand, and never will, why people enjoy putting others down so much. I don't look at people and think nasty things about them. I don't watch what they eat and think nasty things about them. I don't look at their clothes and think nasty things about them. I don't look at their hair, their makeup, their cars, their dogs, their eyebrows, their spelling or grammar, their arm fat or lackthereof...and think nasty things about them.

I DO look at the judgemental things they say and think nasty things about them. I will happily live up to that fact.

I'm intolerant of intolerance.

I wish I could feel comfortable meeting people more often without this nagging worry in the back of my mind that my hair, my clothes, my eyebrows, or my underwear colour is not going to offend their precious standards.

It seems to me that society has lost sight of what REALLY matters. A group of women having drinks at a cafe will see the nicest, sweetest most giving woman walk by wearing last seasons styles and sporting some upper lip hair and will trash her until the sun goes down without feeling an ounce of guilt over it. It no longer seems to matter how nice someone is, how giving or caring they are. All that matters is what they look like.

Fucking sad as hell.

I know some of the most wonderful people and count them as friends. Most of them are not much to look at. They have warts on their faces or wear shabby clothes or are overweight.

Don't you think they wish they had more money so they could get that wart removed or buy better clothes or afford a gym membership?

Yeah, isn't always all that meets the eye. I'm forever grateful for my ability to see past appearance and appreciate what is REALLY there.

 

[Netzach]

But what if your addiction is food? You can't just quit eating food. You can't even avoid food. What you have to do is only do a little food. Like you would only do a little heroin. Every day. For the rest of your life.

Exactly.

And people who do not have the addiction I have will never understand my relationship to sugar.

As a small child, believe me, I was NOT picking veggies out over cookies. My mother tells me the face I pulled at my first taste of ice cream ever, like I suddenly saw in color.

There is a genetic, brain chemical component to this. But, like madness, the stigma is in full swing.

Neither was my grandmother one to ever turn down cake. She still screws up her stomach on chocolate in the thick of a Crohn's flare which I never did, actually.

She weighs 120 and I weigh 180 because she did something for years I've never once done in my life. Smokes. That fills a hole, doesn't it?

 

[Etoile]

She weighs 120 and I weigh 180 because she did something for years I've never once done in my life. Smokes. That fills a hole, doesn't it?

And how.

 

[Netzach]

one of the only people I know to have lost weight and kept it off did OA.

Where it is treated as addiction and chemical, not whim or choice.

There are things she will never, ever, eat again. Ever.

This is completely counter to the SHAPE magazine "oh you can still have a little crack once a week, just don't overdo it" theory.

 

[BiBunny]

As far as the out of shape thing goes....

In the eyes of the BMI scale, I am morbidly obese. I'm somewhere between 5'9" and 5'10", and I weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds. I'm in the worst shape of my life. I sound like a goddamned freight train if I have to climb a flight of stairs.

But...

I'm a country girl. I'm tough and mean, and I'll do whatever I have to do to take care of my shit. I can saddle and ride horses all day. I can shovel shit and wheel it away in a wheelbarrow in 100 degree weather with 80% humidity. Yes, I sweat like a pig, but in that heat, so does everyone else. I can go outside and dig up dirt to fill in the holes I created in those stalls by cleaning out the wet spots. Alabama red clay is either dry and packed hard as bricks or wet and weighs 40 tons per shovelful. I can wheel that dirt back down to those stalls, fill in the holes, and cover the whole thing back over with clean, dry shavings. I can cart 5-gallon water buckets around, clean them, and refill them. I can change my own oil, rotate my own tires, and move any damn thing that needs moving.

So, no, being morbidly obese doesn't mean you just lie in bed and wheeze while you suffocate in your own fat.

 

[Netzach]

As far as the out of shape thing goes....

In the eyes of the BMI scale, I am morbidly obese. I'm somewhere between 5'9" and 5'10", and I weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds. I'm in the worst shape of my life. I sound like a goddamned freight train if I have to climb a flight of stairs.

But...

I'm a country girl. I'm tough and mean, and I'll do whatever I have to do to take care of my shit. I can saddle and ride horses all day. I can shovel shit and wheel it away in a wheelbarrow in 100 degree weather with 80% humidity. Yes, I sweat like a pig, but in that heat, so does everyone else. I can go outside and dig up dirt to fill in the holes I created in those stalls by cleaning out the wet spots. Alabama red clay is either dry and packed hard as bricks or wet and weighs 40 tons per shovelful. I can wheel that dirt back down to those stalls, fill in the holes, and cover the whole thing back over with clean, dry shavings. I can cart 5-gallon water buckets around, clean them, and refill them. I can change my own oil, rotate my own tires, and move any damn thing that needs moving.

So, no, being morbidly obese doesn't mean you just lie in bed and wheeze while you suffocate in your own fat.

Yeah, um, and 3 miles around Lake of the Isles on an 86 degree day has me toast.

 

[Etoile]

My BMI is 34.2 and I am in the worst shape of my life. But I'm not losing weight because other people think I should. My wife loves me JUST the way I am. My friends like me even though I'm fat. The only reason I started WW last week is because I wanted to. Me, myself. I'm doing it for me.

 

[the captians wench]

Also, it's kind of neat when someone wants me to touch him purely because I'm capable of doing disgusting things to his balls that make us both happy, rather than because I look any particular way one way or the other. It's rare, but it can happen.

That is sweet. When they come running, and then crawling to you just because of the nasty things you can do to them that no one else can. *sigh* It was those moments when I really could dig on being on top.

I really don't care what people I don't intend to fuck look like though, honestly, I can't think of anything more boring to worry about. I do worry about the "obesity epidemic" from an economic, distribution, class, and social standpoint. But the visual of it isn't the part that alarms me.

I can relate there to I just flat out don't notice the general weight of the room. *shrug* But if I was in that room to meet some one I might have an interest in, I'd take more notice. I've just never gone looking for some one really. Even when I was looking I wasn't really looking. I always just expect to find, or be found. So far it's worked good for me. But I think that is the key difference here. As you said before, the "looking" vs "not looking" attitude. I know if I was "on the prowl" I'd take a lot more notice of the general looks of people around me.

 

[the captians wench]

one of the only people I know to have lost weight and kept it off did OA.

Where it is treated as addiction and chemical, not whim or choice.

There are things she will never, ever, eat again. Ever.

This is completely counter to the SHAPE magazine "oh you can still have a little crack once a week, just don't overdo it" theory.

My dad did OA, he lost a ton of weight that way.

But now he's facing the "health food is fucking expencive" ordeal and has another mouth to feed ontop of that. It's hard to eat healthy in that situation, especially when you have a daugter that can get you McD's at half price.

 

[SirLeo]

I Need Yoou Around The House! ;-)

I've just got 3 acres and its more than I can keep up with. If you can truly do all those things, please come live with us! LOL. As they say, you go girl!

As far as the out of shape thing goes....

In the eyes of the BMI scale, I am morbidly obese. I'm somewhere between 5'9" and 5'10", and I weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds. I'm in the worst shape of my life. I sound like a goddamned freight train if I have to climb a flight of stairs.

But...

I'm a country girl. I'm tough and mean, and I'll do whatever I have to do to take care of my shit. I can saddle and ride horses all day. I can shovel shit and wheel it away in a wheelbarrow in 100 degree weather with 80% humidity. Yes, I sweat like a pig, but in that heat, so does everyone else. I can go outside and dig up dirt to fill in the holes I created in those stalls by cleaning out the wet spots. Alabama red clay is either dry and packed hard as bricks or wet and weighs 40 tons per shovelful. I can wheel that dirt back down to those stalls, fill in the holes, and cover the whole thing back over with clean, dry shavings. I can cart 5-gallon water buckets around, clean them, and refill them. I can change my own oil, rotate my own tires, and move any damn thing that needs moving.

So, no, being morbidly obese doesn't mean you just lie in bed and wheeze while you suffocate in your own fat.

 

[Caitlynne]

There are way too many posts to respond to specifically, but I had a few thoughts and wanted to get them down. I did in fact read the entire thread.

Interesting thread.

1. The feast for famine syndrome: I once had a S/O who was w trainer and he explained it like this. This can become a problem for anyone who has ever dieted a lot over the years, and is the largest contributing factor to putting weight back on. When you diet, you basically starve yourself. Some bodies, will begin storing calories [making fat] immediately because of a well developed survival instinct. Your body knows that you're dieting, starving, etc, and there is no telling when you might stop, so it's putting away calories for a rainy day so to speak. If you've spent years yo yo dieting, then the cycle is set. You simply can't use a weight loss diet and have it be successful. You have to eat enough or you'll just add fat. Every bite, your body stores if your body perceives it as too little. It will grab the sugar out of some raw carrots and make fat. The only successful thing he ever saw or suggested was eating 6 or more smaller meals and to never drop below 1200 calories per day. AND that was only if you hadn't messed up your metabolism with extreme fad dieting. Extreme fad dieting is really very destructive to your metabolism.

2. I agree with Netzach that this is a component of a class situation. The poor and working poor can't afford to eat healthy. They can't afford a lot of things. They eat high carbohydrate diets because those foods are cheap and will 'fill a person up'. There is a fast food restaurant on every corner in a poor neighborhood and they all make money. They make money because they sell cheap comfort food that people eat in order to feel "comforted". Poverty cannot be ignored when it comes to obesity. There are no parks in poor neighborhoods where people can walk or run and get exercise. There are no farmer's markets where fresh produce is brought in on a daily basis. There is no money for a gym membership or to go swimming every day, or to play golf or racketball. Class issues are a MAJOR contributing factor to obesity and health issues in general. If we see more fat people the question to ask, is, are there in fact just more poor people?

3. I'm a bit at a loss to understand what the purpose of the thread actually was. I can see that the OP seemed disturbed by a trend she witnessed, but didn't seem to be comforted by the reports from others that there wasn't really a trend among kinksters. I'd have to say that from what I've seen in Los Angeles, I don't find a higher than usual number of overweight people either.

There seemed to be early on a POV that a Dom should dominate fat submissives into thinness. My opinion on dominating a fat sub into thinness is this: If a Dom wants to do it, then fine. It's his or her prerogative. But what I saw in the OP was a POV that it was some kind of duty of a Dom/me to enforce health and thinness. And it is this issue I really want to address.

There aren't any rules a Dom has to follow except the ones he or she makes. If you don't like the rules or desires a Dom/me makes then I'm sure the door won't hit you on the ass when you leave. The very idea of making it some Dom/me's duty to do is patently absurd. I can't even wrap my brain around the Dom and Domme's of the world letting some rule pulled out of the ass of the ether dominate their lives. It's ridiculous

I get so crazy when I see threads full of "A Dom should do this or a Dom should do that". It's not the way it is. Sure, a lot of Doms do this or that, but it is because they want to, not because there is some rulebook secreted away in some vault that spells out the rules for Dom-hood. I think this an unfortunate POV when it comes to BDSM. There are no rules a Dom has to follow. They do what they want, and a sub obeys or leaves if she or he can't obey and be fulfilled in that obedience.

So, I find the idea that a Dom should enforce a subs thinness or health to be almost absurd on it face. Unless of course the Dom/me has a particular fancy/fettish to do so. Then it's of course what they want to do, but certainly not because a "Dom should do it".

So, given that most of us don't see any sharp increase in the % of fat people in BDSM above the % of fat people in the mainstream, and given that there aren't any rules that force a Dom/me to make a sub thin and healthy, I just don't see what the topic is all about. Unless of course it really is about the OP's comfortableness with overweight-ness in general. And regardless of how much concern and sensitivity the OP used and demonstrated, it still is her comfortableness we're all trying to soothe.

Which is fine of course. I just wanted to point it out so we're all on the same page.

All that said, to all the participants.. I was glad to read the different accounts of weight stories. I find them liberating and informative. Liberating because they free all of us to look beyond the stereotype of "fat" and look to the person instead. Fat-ness really is and will probably remain the last politically correct group to slander. They are not a protected class and no one looks at the issues to understand. Many in this thread have offered really valuable information.

To Etolie especially: I agree with your wife, you are beautiful. I've crushed on you since the day I joined Lit. BUT, I understand and applaud you taking your own course of action for your own reasons. I wish you complete success in achieving what you want and desire.

To those who have gained weight because of steroids... I have a brother and a sister who have suffered the same fate although for different reasons. There are people in this world who actually don't understand trying to cure one disease if it means gaining weight. They think that of course, because their life has either never been at stake or the cure didn't include a weight gain. In any event, that is their bias, I am just glad each of you is alive. I could care less about obesity in the extreme or even if it is just a little weight gain when compared to being alive or NOT being alive.

I think I'm done.. If I missed any one I apologize ahead of time. I enjoyed everyone's post and story.

 

[BeachGurl2]

3. I'm a bit at a loss to understand what the purpose of the thread actually was. I can see that the OP seemed disturbed by a trend she witnessed, but didn't seem to be comforted by the reports from others that there wasn't really a trend among kinksters. I'd have to say that from what I've seen in Los Angeles, I don't find a higher than usual number of overweight people either.

Actually, I am quite comforted by the idea that the phenomenon seems to exist only in Phoenix, and I seem to be the only person on this board who has noticed.

(For those who didn't recognize my tone, that was sarcasm.)

There seemed to be early on a POV that a Dom should dominate fat submissives into thinness. My opinion on dominating a fat sub into thinness is this: If a Dom wants to do it, then fine. It's his or her prerogative. But what I saw in the OP was a POV that it was some kind of duty of a Dom/me to enforce health and thinness. And it is this issue I really want to address.

There must have been a post or two that you skipped because this idea was clarified a bit back. Because it was poorly worded, the impression was that my view is that Doms should always do this. That's just plain silly. So you may want to scroll back a bit and I'm sure you'll find it.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Well, I guess I congratulated us all a bit early on how well the discussion turned out. Now things are doing what I expected in the beginning, which is turn nasty. It's really too bad. But I understand all the reasons why it did. So I'll just go back to lurk mode unless I see something I just can't pass up responding to or until my words get twisted around again. I love when that happens.

 

[cherokee_dove]

After reading this thread for the last few days, i personally feel more at ease posting an av that is truly me.

Yes, i am overweight of what the BMI says. So what? The BMI originally set the standards back in the ages when "thin was in". They didn't take into account bone density, height, nationality, or medical problems.

And i am not putting anyone down, thin or overweight; because i have been on both sides of the spectrum.

My whole family has always been Navy oriented. So it was natural that i wanted to go into the Navy as soon as i graduated high school. i was told by the Navy people that i would have to loose 42 lbs. in 3 1/2 months.

Well, i buckled down; ate salads and tuna fish 9 out of every 10 meals. The tenth was always something to make sure my carbs stayed in the "healthy zone". i counted calories for everything.

i made it. Got down to the required 150 lbs. Went in right after high school for all the medical tests they do, and due to 2 things; 1-it was peace time, and 2-i had very mild asthma. They refused to sign me in!

At that point, the depression hit; and will admit, i pigged out.

But it was because of the fact that internally my mind was telling me, "Hey "T" you went thru all that dieting and counting calories and still got shot down. What use was it all? Go eat what you want and to hell with them people."

After a few months, i saw myself in a full length mirror. i had "pigged out" too much. i got on the scales, and saw it said 312 lbs.

For me, that was a reality check that slapped me out of depression, big time.
From then on, i have watched what i eat; but no heavy duty salad and tuna diets anymore. i keep it reasonable, and as healthy as i can for myself and my boys.

Its hard when todays economy makes the healthier foods more expensive than the "yummy, but not so healthy" foods; though. For a family of three, a salad made of lettuce, tomato, cucumbers, and onions can run almost $20 in my town. Compared to a pizza with pepperoni, sausage, and cheese, $5.00.

So you compare, healthy and broke; or a lil overweight and money in your pocket?

i am proud to say, i have worked myself down to 228 lbs since i looked in that mirror.

As to why it seems there are more overweight people here in the BDSM realm...

Consider someone wants to take a flogger to your back. He, or she; is looking at you, sizing you up and wondering, "Is this person too thin for this strong of a flogger? Could I break bones if I hit to hard?" etc...

Or they look at you and say, "Ok, i think they can handle a little more of a heavier duty flogger than the other one, because they have a little bit more padding to prevent the initial bone shock of the flogger landing."

And this is just my opinion as has happened to me, personally.

 

[serijules]

Yes, i am overweight of what the BMI says. So what? The BMI originally set the standards back in the ages when "thin was in". They didn't take into account bone density, height, nationality, or medical problems.

I hate the BMI. Any doctor that so much as even mentions it to me I get up and walk out the door. It's pure and utter bullshit. If I weighed what that idiotic chart says I should, I would be sickly thin. My entire family runs 'heavy' in their weight, I'm assuming to dense bones. My mom weighs over 240 and she looks INCREDIBLE. She wears a size 14/16 and looks wonderful. I've seen others at the same height that are 240ish and look twice as big as mom.

I don't even bother to track my weight when trying to get healthier. I track clothes sizes. My weight means nothing. When I lose, 1 pound to me equals 5 to most people. I can lose 5 pounds and people swear I've lost 20. However, it's that much harder for me, for some reason, to lose those 5 pounds. Luckily, they show when I do.

I get really pissy when people tell me they are trying to get down to their "proper BMI". There is no proper BMI, you should weigh what YOU look and feel good at, period.

I have a friend that weighs 155, but her BMI says she's supposed to weigh 135. She is obsessive about reaching this weight, never mind the fact that she looks perfect right now and every pound she loses she looks sickly and feels sickly. Obviously her body wants her to weigh more than the BMI says she should. She prefers to listen to charts instead of logic and what her body tells her. Drives me insane.

/rant

Oh, one last thing...Beachgurl, don't spend the entire thread reassuring us that you were expecting backlash and can handle it and then pull the "I guess I will just go lurk" thing because that is what happens. That's just silly.

I think the thread turned out quite well, albeit some misunderstandings due to poor word choice. Quite a few people have said they enjoyed the thread or gained something from it. What's the problem?

 

[Netzach]

After reading this thread for the last few days, i personally feel more at ease posting an av that is truly me.

Yes, i am overweight of what the BMI says. So what? The BMI originally set the standards back in the ages when "thin was in". They didn't take into account bone density, height, nationality, or medical problems.

And i am not putting anyone down, thin or overweight; because i have been on both sides of the spectrum.

My whole family has always been Navy oriented. So it was natural that i wanted to go into the Navy as soon as i graduated high school. i was told by the Navy people that i would have to loose 42 lbs. in 3 1/2 months.

Well, i buckled down; ate salads and tuna fish 9 out of every 10 meals. The tenth was always something to make sure my carbs stayed in the "healthy zone". i counted calories for everything.

i made it. Got down to the required 150 lbs. Went in right after high school for all the medical tests they do, and due to 2 things; 1-it was peace time, and 2-i had very mild asthma. They refused to sign me in!

At that point, the depression hit; and will admit, i pigged out.

But it was because of the fact that internally my mind was telling me, "Hey "T" you went thru all that dieting and counting calories and still got shot down. What use was it all? Go eat what you want and to hell with them people."

After a few months, i saw myself in a full length mirror. i had "pigged out" too much. i got on the scales, and saw it said 312 lbs.

For me, that was a reality check that slapped me out of depression, big time.
From then on, i have watched what i eat; but no heavy duty salad and tuna diets anymore. i keep it reasonable, and as healthy as i can for myself and my boys.

Its hard when todays economy makes the healthier foods more expensive than the "yummy, but not so healthy" foods; though. For a family of three, a salad made of lettuce, tomato, cucumbers, and onions can run almost $20 in my town. Compared to a pizza with pepperoni, sausage, and cheese, $5.00.

So you compare, healthy and broke; or a lil overweight and money in your pocket?

i am proud to say, i have worked myself down to 228 lbs since i looked in that mirror.

As to why it seems there are more overweight people here in the BDSM realm...

Consider someone wants to take a flogger to your back. He, or she; is looking at you, sizing you up and wondering, "Is this person too thin for this strong of a flogger? Could I break bones if I hit to hard?" etc...

Or they look at you and say, "Ok, i think they can handle a little more of a heavier duty flogger than the other one, because they have a little bit more padding to prevent the initial bone shock of the flogger landing."

And this is just my opinion as has happened to me, personally.

Tuna and salad or cooked frozen veg whatever - a godsend. If it wasn't for the mercury it's a perfectly sound diet. I think I ate this for a year. And I looked good and felt OK when the pred levels finally receded.

Frozen vegetables! Cheap and fast, I tell ya. Boring as fuck, granted, but now that I can tolerate Indian food, they're on the table all the time in less boring fashion.

It IS a little more expensive, or a lot. I keep telling myself I'm saving on MD's and meds by doing it, when I do make the right call. I hope so. I really am glad I dropped a bunch at the Indian grocery on spices and nuts and things - they're cheaper than in the Western stores and they have huge quantities, so I'll never need to buy cardamom again and I can make Matar Paneer with tofu instead of cheese blocks and I think this will help.

 

[cherokee_dove]

Tuna and salad or cooked frozen veg whatever - a godsend. If it wasn't for the mercury it's a perfectly sound diet. I think I ate this for a year. And I looked good and felt OK when the pred levels finally receded.

Frozen vegetables! Cheap and fast, I tell ya. Boring as fuck, granted, but now that I can tolerate Indian food, they're on the table all the time in less boring fashion.

It IS a little more expensive, or a lot. I keep telling myself I'm saving on MD's and meds by doing it, when I do make the right call. I hope so. I really am glad I dropped a bunch at the Indian grocery on spices and nuts and things - they're cheaper than in the Western stores and they have huge quantities, so I'll never need to buy cardamom again and I can make Matar Paneer with tofu instead of cheese blocks and I think this will help.

Looking back now, only thing that was wrong with that diet; is that i CANNOT stand tuna fish now. ~YUCK~

i don't even have it in my home.

i love fall, because then; i have all the fresh vegetables i want. Right out of the garden. And the fresher they are, the more energy they seem to give me.

 

[Caitlynne]

Actually, I am quite comforted by the idea that the phenomenon seems to exist only in Phoenix, and I seem to be the only person on this board who has noticed.

(For those who didn't recognize my tone, that was sarcasm.)

Nope did not recognize the sarcasm, but it's good to know you know how to employ it..

There must have been a post or two that you skipped because this idea was clarified a bit back. Because it was poorly worded, the impression was that my view is that Doms should always do this. That's just plain silly. So you may want to scroll back a bit and I'm sure you'll find it.

Thanks, I indeed must have missed it. I'm glad you see how silly it would be.

Oh, and BTW, I didn't miss the sarcasm this time.

Well, I guess I congratulated us all a bit early on how well the discussion turned out. Now things are doing what I expected in the beginning, which is turn nasty. It's really too bad. But I understand all the reasons why it did. So I'll just go back to lurk mode unless I see something I just can't pass up responding to or until my words get twisted around again. I love when that happens.

And this response was actually pretty predictable as well. It's sad when people begin a topic and then can't see a contrary response as anything but negative or nasty. Oh well, another day; another over reacting poster.

 

[Homburg]

Disclaimer: I've not read the whole thread. I am simply offering my personal responses to the various questions asked.

Is it just my own perception, or does this lifestyle seem to have an unusually high percentage of overweight individuals who are active within it? Or do you think that those within the lifestyle mirror those in society as a whole?

Might be because BDSM'ers are slightly, and I stress slightly, less appearance focused than vanilla folk. As Netz pointed out, the people interested in her perv on what she does more than how she looks (though her appearance very likely satisfies them in many ways as well, simply because it speaks of personality). There is also a bit mor ehonesty and ... shamelessness in the scene.

If you are in a D/s or M/s dynamic, is your partner in the same physical state (meaning physically fit or overweight) that you are in or are you physically opposites?

Me: I'm a big dude. 5'11", weighing in at 285-290lbs. There's a whole lotta muscle there, and I'm dense as hell in general. I can't tell you how many times I've talked to guys that weigh significantly less than me but are still bigger, and ho wmany times I've been called a liar for saying I weighed more than 250lbs or so. *shrug* I'm still fat. I lift. I mountain bike. I'm nowhere near as active as I'd like to be, but still not entirely sedentary.

viv: She definitely overweight, and moreso, comparatively, than I am. But she carries a lot of muscle too though, and looks like she weighs less than she does due to muscle density and bone thickness (you can actually claim to be big boned when you have thick wrists and have never broken a bone in your life). She was a competitive swimmer when she was younger, and never really lost the muscle mass all that much

MIS: She is pretty damned good shape. 120lbs or so, 5'2", and toned from lots of dance and hitting the gym. She gripes about being out of shap enow because she slacked off over the summer, but she still is in damned fine shape in my book, and anyone else's that sees her.

So viv is closer to me in some ways, but MIS relates to the active things I do, and both really appreciate the strength/mucle factor from lots of lifting. The fact that I can pick MIS up and press her up over my head is something that she rather likes.

In my case, I'm a fat guy, but not truly sloppy overweight, and that fact that I'm obviously carrying a lot of muscle and am reasonably strong tend to balance out the gut.

As a Dominant/Master, do you encourage your submissive/slave to be health conscious? If not, is it because it is not important to you or because you are attracted to someone who is BBW?

I do encourage them to do so. I am okay with plush gals, but can't really say that I am specifically seeking BBW's.

If you are overweight, do you find that you have difficulty being as physically active as you would like to be? Are you comfortable being partially or fully unclothed if you play in public or at private parties with others?

I did before I lost fat and gained muscle. These days I don't tend to have too much trouble. I'm no runner, and never will be, and never am going to be an endurance athlete of any sort. I was built for burst activities like weightlifting and sprinting. These days, my size is not a major issue, aside from not fitting well into clothes designed for little people.

I am not comfortable being naked in public generally. Not only am I unhappy with the fatness, I'm also hirsute. Exciting, I know. Sure, many people dig it, but I'm self-conscious about it.

I have heard it said on more than one occasion that most Dominants prefer larger submissives because they aren’t as afraid that they will ‘break’. I’ve found that to be an unfair statement toward submissives who aren’t large. But then again, I would imagine that a very strong male Dominant would wrap his hand around my wrist or my neck and probably wonder if I’m physically up to accepting whatever he wants to dish out. So maybe it’s not such an unfair statement after all.

I won't say that I have a softer hand with MIS, but there are just going to be some things that I'm not going to do the same way because she carries less mass all around.

And a part of me wonders about the level of control a Dominant has over his own life if he is overweight. (Yes, let the flames begin.) When I think of volunteering to give my power up to someone else, while I don’t expect perfection because that’s just plain silly, I do expect that I’m giving my power to someone who has the ability to control not only himself, but me as well. And weight or physical fitness is one thing that I would expect someone who is in control to actually be in control of.

I would have to agree overall.There's a difference between being overweight, and being so sloppy fat that are having trouble getting stock to peopl

Is that a naïve viewpoint? I’m sure some here will think so. And I’m sure it’s one that has kept and will continue to keep me single.

I attended a munch today. There were probably about 2 dozen people there. I was the only female in the room that I would imagine did not wear a plus size. There were probably 2 or 3 men in the room who weren’t overweight, 2 of them submissives to 2 of the larger women. The restaurant we were in served overly large portions of standard diner food – deep fried and smothered in gravy. It took everything I could muster to look at people when they spoke because of the food they were eating. All of the people in the room were exceptionally nice people and I enjoyed myself immensely. But I won’t attend a munch again that includes eating.

Our local munch group has a wide variety of body types.

Yes, as I said, this post has a point. I wonder how many in D/s or M/s relationships have Dominants who are in control enough and care enough to help motivate their submissive/slave to get and stay healthy. My post is not so much about weight (although I’m sure many here will think it is) but is about physical health. We do a lot of physically draining activities. If you aren’t in decent physical shape, how much enjoyment are you able to get out of them?

As the Dominant, shouldn’t the physical well-being of all parties be up to you? I’m curious as to how you may see your role in the physical well-being of not only yourself, but those under your care.

"As a Dominant, I can make a woman do anything that she wants to do." - great quote from "Screw the Roses, send me the thorns".

You can cajole, cheerlead, and try to motivate. You can't make them actually get healthier and stay that way without micro-management or starvation, and those aren't exactly healthy either. My gals have a rules that tells them to take care of my property. This includes themselves.

 

[bridgeburner]

Well, I guess I congratulated us all a bit early on how well the discussion turned out. Now things are doing what I expected in the beginning, which is turn nasty. It's really too bad. But I understand all the reasons why it did. So I'll just go back to lurk mode unless I see something I just can't pass up responding to or until my words get twisted around again. I love when that happens.

You keep saying this but I'm not seeing the nasty posts you keep referring to. Could you point out these flamey, abusive posts where people are attacking you and calling you names, refusing to continue speaking to you or refusing to acknowledge your clarifications when they misunderstand your posts? Honestly, things here have been pretty damn civil compared to how many threads go.

 

[BeachGurl2]

And this response was actually pretty predictable as well. It's sad when people begin a topic and then can't see a contrary response as anything but negative or nasty. Oh well, another day; another over reacting poster.

You know, I've been posting on these boards a long time. Longer than some, not as long as others, but long enough to get a feel for the vibes and the attitudes of most of the regular posters. This discussion went much better than I anticipated for about the first 4 pages, then began degenerating into a sort of free for all about my obvious bigotted nature toward anyone overweight. With a few people still trying to stay on with the original discussion. I expected some of that because there are always going to be people in a group setting who have to attack the messenger, no matter the message being sent. That's okay, I get that. I expected it.

I'm not stepping away because someone disagrees with me. In fact, I think the history of my posting here suggests that my 'style', for lack of a better word, is to stay right in the thick of things, even when some things turn sour. That's my nature. I enjoy having a good discussion, even a debate, with people who disagree with me because I learn from that, and I hope others do as well. I'm stepping back because of things exactly like your post here. It's much more fun for some to just wander through a thread and spew venom because it makes them feel good about themselves. Especially when the topic is a very touchy one for so many people.

Had you read what you said you read, you would have seen that my thoughts come from being on both sides of the coin. I've been extremely overweight (beginning with medicine for my lupus) and I've been extremely underweight (from an eating disorder). Throughout my life, I've gained and lost hundreds of pounds. My most recent weightloss was 40 pounds. Prior to that, I had a weightloss of almost 60, after getting off the prednisone. But because of the content of my post, I'm seen by some here as having a problem with overweight people. I'm not going to hang around for a lynching, but I'll happily hang around for a discussion.

 

[rida]

My American experience is about diving into as many cultures as possible, which is easy as they're in close proximity, and being able to pick and choose what I like.

Japanese traditional culture considers that to be absolute heresy. Only their style of food is right, and only if prepared traditionally.

That seeps into American culture, with those who are defending their culture from modern invasion taking heavy shots at Americanization.

Following with the generalizations (and I do not mean them in a negative way, sometime is the only way to talk as we cannot include every single specific case in one sentence), it is interesting that what the average Suzuki does compared to what the holders of Japanese traditional culture is as opposite as what the average Joe does compared to what is considered American traditional culture.

American traditional culture is one of mixing cultures, but the most food conservative people I've met come from that culture.
Japanese traditional culture is for preservation of purity and old ways while the most mix and match foods I've seen belong to the Japanese popular culture (spaghetti with see weeds and fish roe; rice crackers with melted cheddar cheese and dry fish; korean BBQ meat and vegetable pizza ...)

And Netzach made some good points. My children are thin. They are extremely active due in part to the ADHD. They adore fruits and veggies and will pick them over sweets. Thing is I'm on a very tight budget. Have you seen the price of fresh fruits lately? It costs a buck for a box of snack cakes, and upwards of three dollars for a small carton of strawberries. I still try to buy the healthiest things for them. But in the real world, thing that are less healthy are a hell of a lot easier on my budget. It's a sad fact.

I hate to harp on this but I REALLY see a class component to this equation, a huge glaring one - the same people who can afford bypass surgeries, plastic surgeries and two hours per day at the gym because someone else watches the spawn are going to vilify the ones who can't even afford a half hour to cook and run the companies to *keep them that way*

someone else's lesiure time is because someone else is overworked.

Sorry, happy labor day everyone.

2. I agree with Netzach that this is a component of a class situation. The poor and working poor can't afford to eat healthy. They can't afford a lot of things. They eat high carbohydrate diets because those foods are cheap and will 'fill a person up'. There is a fast food restaurant on every corner in a poor neighborhood and they all make money. They make money because they sell cheap comfort food that people eat in order to feel "comforted". Poverty cannot be ignored when it comes to obesity. There are no parks in poor neighborhoods where people can walk or run and get exercise. There are no farmer's markets where fresh produce is brought in on a daily basis. There is no money for a gym membership or to go swimming every day, or to play golf or racketball. Class issues are a MAJOR contributing factor to obesity and health issues in general. If we see more fat people the question to ask, is, are there in fact just more poor people?

Yes, I've noticed that too.
I think that something somewhere went grossly wrong when it is cheaper to provide highly processed food instead of fresh produce.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Disclaimer: I've not read the whole thread. I am simply offering my personal responses to the various questions asked.



Might be because BDSM'ers are slightly, and I stress slightly, less appearance focused than vanilla folk. As Netz pointed out, the people interested in her perv on what she does more than how she looks (though her appearance very likely satisfies them in many ways as well, simply because it speaks of personality). There is also a bit mor ehonesty and ... shamelessness in the scene.

And I think that may have something to do with it, although I haven't found that across the board, I do think that things may lean in that direction. As well as what someone else said earlier about a higher tolerance level. But I'm also beginning to believe it's sort of a selective tolerance.

I won't say that I have a softer hand with MIS, but there are just going to be some things that I'm not going to do the same way because she carries less mass all around.

This is something I'm very curious about. Obviously never having been on the giving end, only on the receiving end, I have no experience with that. I've had partners who were almost afraid to go beyond a certain point, even when I've expressed to them that I'm good to go. I've never had someone come out and say outright they didn't think I could take it or handle it, but I've wondered if size may have something to do with that hesitation. Is there a real danger with someone who does have less body mass?

And a part of me wonders about the level of control a Dominant has over his own life if he is overweight. (Yes, let the flames begin.) When I think of volunteering to give my power up to someone else, while I don’t expect perfection because that’s just plain silly, I do expect that I’m giving my power to someone who has the ability to control not only himself, but me as well. And weight or physical fitness is one thing that I would expect someone who is in control to actually be in control of.

I would have to agree overall.There's a difference between being overweight, and being so sloppy fat that are having trouble getting stock to peopl

I was beginning to think by the responses that my thoughts on this were really far off the mark. I think it's something everyone has an idea on - how much control they expect a Dominant to have over his own life. We're all human. No one has control over everything. No matter how much he may desire it or think he has it. But there are certain aspects I think all Doms desire to have control over that are important to them, and that all subs want their Doms to have control over. Areas that are important to them. And I think that varies from person to person. It was an area that was of some importance to me, but from the responses here, I had the feeling people were saying it was stupid to expect that.

"As a Dominant, I can make a woman do anything that she wants to do." - great quote from "Screw the Roses, send me the thorns".

You can cajole, cheerlead, and try to motivate. You can't make them actually get healthier and stay that way without micro-management or starvation, and those aren't exactly healthy either. My gals have a rules that tells them to take care of my property. This includes themselves.

Obviously, this thread has you and me in the minority on this one, Homburg.