A Voting Question

[*Catbabe*]

I am not touching the balls issue.


I will say that when I receive feedback, the more specific it is, then the more useful it is to me. I would rather have someone say, "Hey Cat, what if you wrote the last stanza like this <insert edit>", then "Hey Cat your last stanza didn't work for me. I appreciate both, but the latter will just leave me floundering in questions.

Re-writes are the fastest way for me to see my poem through another's eyes. Eyes that probably represent many readers I would like to reach.

It's common sense to know that the suggested changes are not set in stone. I may very well say, "I see your point and thank you for taking the time to tell me your opinion but it was written that way because of these reasons." More often, the reader is able to improve the work with suggestions because of the distance they have from the subject.

 

[flyguy69]

C'mon, Cat, touch it! Just run the tip of your fingernail around the issue...

I am not touching the balls issue.


I will say that when I receive feedback, the more specific it is, then the more useful it is to me. I would rather have someone say, "Hey Cat, what if you wrote the last stanza like this <insert edit>", then "Hey Cat your last stanza didn't work for me. I appreciate both, but the latter will just leave me floundering in questions.

Re-writes are the fastest way for me to see my poem through another's eyes. Eyes that probably represent many readers I would like to reach.

It's common sense to know that the suggested changes are not set in stone. I may very well say, "I see your point and thank you for taking the time to tell me your opinion but it was written that way because of these reasons." More often, the reader is able to improve the work with suggestions because of the distance they have from the subject.

 

[*Catbabe*]

*looks for fly swatter...can't find it....finds tennis racket instead*


Okay Fly, bring your balls over here.

Would you like a forehand or backhand?

 

[minsue]

*looks for fly swatter...can't find it....finds tennis racket instead*


Okay Fly, bring your balls over here.

Would you like a forehand or backhand?

Oooh, vicious! I like!

 

[flyguy69]

You're offering me a handjob? Just keep those claws retracted!

*looks for fly swatter...can't find it....finds tennis racket instead*


Okay Fly, bring your balls over here.

Would you like a forehand or backhand?

 

[happyhooker]

voting

because i am new to this any comment's on my poems will be taken on board and hopefully my writting will improve, thank you annaswirls for you comments on the interview

 

[WickedEve]

I am relatively new to posting poetry here on Lit. There is something I simply don't understand:

When I read someone else's poetry, I tend to vote if I'm moved by it in some way, if it evoked a feeling or idea in me. If I feel that a poem is flawed in some way I either don't vote or, if I feel I have some meaningful insight, I'll vote and leave a comment with a constructive suggestion. Simply giving a poem a bad rating seems, in a way, needlessly punitive, especially considering the deeply personal, abstract, and subjective nature of poetry.

I hope that, as creative and expressive artists all, we can and should support each other in expressing our highest selves and not use the tools Literotica has given us to bitch-slap each other.

I'd love to hear what you think about this!

Peace.

Tools given to bitch slap each other. I'm sorry, but I'm stuck on that image. Oh man, I'm seeing all these cool bitch slapping tools. "Frankly, Jane, I don't like you, and that's why I'm holding the bring-the-bitch-down 2000x in red rubber. Nothing personal." Slap.
I vote 3, 4, or 5. If I hate the poem and have nothing constructive to say, then I back click. Why low vote it? I've only left a few low votes and those were for poems that I found completely offensive and I voted low because I was pissed off. Though, it didn't really help and it was a childish reaction.

 

[Fflow]

Charley & Tara

Charley, you wrote that poetry "is no more or less subjective and personal than perhaps a story I might write." I believe I failed to articulate my thoughts as clearly as I'd hoped. What I meant to say is that poems exist outside the bounds of grammar, syntax, or any other rules. At their best, poems express ideas that prose simply cannot. Because of this, it becomes very difficult for anyone to develop a qualitative analysis of a poem. Thus, any analysis is, at best, subjective and personal.

From Wikipedia, Deconstruction:

"The term deconstruction is often used in a loose way as a synonym of critical analysis, especially the kind of uncooperative critical analysis that subjects a work or a text to close scrutiny in order to expose contradictions, poor logic or unwelcome affinities with other works or cultural objects. The term has a more precise and restricted sense in the context of academic humanistic disciplines. In Continental philosophy and literary criticism, deconstruction is a school of criticism developed in part by the French post-structuralist philosopher Jacques Derrida. Derrida offered what he called deconstructive readings of Western philosophers. Roughly speaking, a deconstructive reading is an analysis of a text that uncovers the difference between the text's structure and its Western metaphysical essence. Deconstructive readings show how texts cannot simply be read as works by individual authors communicating distinct messages, but instead must be read as sites of conflict within a given culture or worldview. A deconstructed text will reveal a multitude of viewpoints simultaneously existing, often in direct conflict with one another. Comparison of a deconstructive reading of a text with a more traditional one will also show how many of these viewpoints are suppressed and ignored.

The central move of a deconstructive analysis is to look at binary oppositions within a text (for instance, maleness and femaleness, or homosexuality and heterosexuality) and to show how, instead of describing a rigid set of categories, the two opposing terms are actually fluid and impossible to separate fully. The conclusion from this, generally, is that the categories do not actually exist in any rigid or absolute sense.

Deconstruction was highly controversial both in academia, where it was accused of being nihilistic, parasitic, and silly, and in the popular press, where it was often seized upon as a sign that academia had become completely out of touch with reality. Despite this controversy, it remains a major force in contemporary philosophy and literary criticism and theory."

To Tara: Literotica is not a University, or High School, English class. While I think it appropriate and, in fact, polite to share a meaningful comment with one's vote, I do not think it appropriate to suggest solutions to problems unless asked. It is one thing to say, "This poem doesn't work for me because the language is too unfamiliar, the words too obscure. I feel like I need a dictionary!" It is quite another to say, "change 'this' word to 'that' word, and delete this part, and you'll have a better poem."

The biggest challenge in poetry, I believe, is quieting the critical voices in one's own head so that the heart can speak unfettered. We, each of us, knows that we ourselves are our own worst critics. That is why I say, again, that we should use this forum as a tool for supporting each other and providing honest, constructive, and meaningful feedback.

Lastly, thank you all for participating in this interesting and meaningful dialog. I feel as if I understand the Lit culture just a little better. I feel very welcomed!

(PS: I like having my balls sucked. I've sucked some, too, but I'm not that limber anymore.)

 

[PatCarrington]

Tools given to bitch slap each other. I'm sorry, but I'm stuck on that image. Oh man, I'm seeing all these cool bitch slapping tools. "Frankly, Jane, I don't like you, and that's why I'm holding the bring-the-bitch-down 2000x in red rubber. Nothing personal." Slap.
I vote 3, 4, or 5. If I hate the poem and have nothing constructive to say, then I back click. Why low vote it? I've only left a few low votes and those were for poems that I found completely offensive and I voted low because I was pissed off. Though, it didn't really help and it was a childish reaction.

hey eve.

exactly what does one have to do to get the red rubber?

......just wondering.....and planning.

 

[PatCarrington]

I do not think it appropriate to suggest solutions to problems unless asked.

beginning a thread with a link to a poem, and then saying "what do you think,"
as brightlyiburn did, is asking.

and so is leaving the public comments option "ON" when you post poetry.

if someone writes poetry and desires no comment from anyone, that is easily done by turning the public comment option "OFF" and refraining from asking for opinion on the threads.

 

[minsue]

beginning a thread with a link to a poem, and then saying "what do you think,"
as brightlyiburn did, is asking.

and so is leaving the public comments option "ON" when you post poetry.

if someone writes poetry and desires no comment from anyone, that is easily done by turning the public comment option "OFF" and refraining from asking for opinion on the threads.

Exactly.

 

[WickedEve]

hey eve.

exactly what does one have to do to get the red rubber?

......just wondering.....and planning.

You have to be worthy. Are you worthy, bitch?
Now, after reading that, you've had a reaction. Your reaction will tell you if you really want me to use red rubber on you.

 

[flyguy69]

beginning a thread with a link to a poem, and then saying "what do you think,"
as brightlyiburn did, is asking.

and so is leaving the public comments option "ON" when you post poetry.

if someone writes poetry and desires no comment from anyone, that is easily done by turning the public comment option "OFF" and refraining from asking for opinion on the threads.

And it is a completely viable approach. Occassionally someone will write a poem of such an intensely personal nature that they are not interested in improving it, only in the catharsis of writing it. By all means; leave the comments and the voting off!

But don't request feedback if what you really want is strokes.

Which is what I want from Catbabe.

 

[Tathagata]

You have to be worthy. Are you worthy, bitch?
Now, after reading that, you've had a reaction. Your reaction will tell you if you really want me to use red rubber on you.

just think...if we all posted on topic...we'd have never seen Pat called a bitch, which to me, has been a seminal ( no pun intended) moment in my time here.

 

[PatCarrington]

You have to be worthy. Are you worthy, bitch?
Now, after reading that, you've had a reaction. Your reaction will tell you if you really want me to use red rubber on you.

is turning from solid to liquid a clue?

eve, if that's goliath in your av, you'd better unstrap his jets.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

It is one thing to say, "This poem doesn't work for me because the language is too unfamiliar, the words too obscure. I feel like I need a dictionary!" It is quite another to say, "change 'this' word to 'that' word, and delete this part, and you'll have a better poem."

Yes, they're two very different things. The first would leave me thinking, "Okay... what are you talking about? What words?" The second would give me a specific iinsight on how that one person read that poem, where were the problems, and what would work better for him or her. The first would take the best part of 10 seconds to write, the second would take two hours.

Whether or not I will take those suggestions is my prerogative as a writer, but I will take #2 any time!

 

[PatCarrington]

just think...if we all posted on topic...we'd have never seen Pat called a bitch, which to me, has been a seminal ( no pun intended) moment in my time here.

hey, brother.

you just want a piece of eve's red rubber too.

come clean.

 

[flyguy69]

is turning from solid to liquid a clue?

eve, if that's goliath in your av, you'd better unstrap his jets.

If you're turning from solid to liquid I'd say you missed your chance!

Unless you've got a very short refractory period...

 

[Tathagata]

hey, brother.

you just want a piece of eve's red rubber too.

come clean.

you can say that again....bitch

 

[brightlyiburn]

I disagree that poetry is 'extremely' personal, and by this I mean completely subjective and emotinal. It is no more or less subjective and personal than perhaps a story I might write. It is merely shorter, more compact, and hopefully best structured, or a least structured in a way that enhances the content.

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong. Poems are not merely "shorter, more compact" stories. They can be, but that is NOT necessarily what they are. Emotional poetry is not a story. It's not meant to be read like a story. Chances are, the writer's intent is not for you to understand every little detail of the poem. With a story, you want someone to understand.
Poetry, especially of the personal kind, is more like abstract art than a story. Most people dismiss abstract art without ever really understanding it. They decide because it doesn't look conventional, it is therefor not good. However, most abstract artists do know traditional art. They simply choose not to do things traditionally. They do not, because they do things differently, keep their art from the world because people might not get it. Plenty of people aren't going to understand, but that doesn't stop them from looking for someone's opinion. However, if you wrote an abstract artist a big long disertation on what he could do to make his art "good" in your definition of the word, he'd probably find it hard not to laugh in your face.
If you choose to write a big long essay on what I can do to make my poem more conventional, you're just wasting your time. It's not that I don't know how to write a poem traditionally, I simply choose not to. Why should that be a reason for me not to find out whether people like it or not? The feedback isn't only so people can correct your grammar and spelling and so on. It's to see if people like what you've written. If you don't like poetry that doesn't follow along traditional lines or along the lines of what you consider to be good, fine. However, don't expect me to fawn and be all grateful when you decide to tell me how to write something that is expressive of me. Not everything fits into a neat, tidy little box.
You know, so many people don't realize that Pablo Picasso did not originally become famous for his abstract art. He was originally well known for very traditional paintings. And for a very long time he thought he would never show his abstract art to the world. Why? Well, if when he showed it to his closest friends, they did not understand, how could the world? If his peers could not see outside of convention, who would?
Fflow, there are always going to be people who don't get it. There will always be people who shrug something different off as bad because it doesn't work with what they know. However, these people who tell you that you have no right to a person's personal opinion if you don't want their technical opinion...they're wrong. Literotica's ratings do not say "Is this technically sound?". They ask if you like it or not. If people don't like it because it isn't structured the way they want it to be, well, that's too damn bad. And they can say that if they want...that doesn't mean I'm going to change things simply because they want me to.
We would go nowhere in life, gain nothing, without those people who do things differently from everyone else. If the guy who invented the wheel bent to the people who told him he was doing it wrong by their standards, would we even have wheels?

 

[PatCarrington]

you can say that again....bitch

i need a list and photos of all available bitch slapping tools.

kind of a pick-your-sweet-poison page.

 

[WickedEve]

is turning from solid to liquid a clue?

eve, if that's goliath in your av, you'd better unstrap his jets.

Not goliath. Not plastic.
You're such a bitch, Pat. I like bitchy men! lol But not liquid ones...

 

[Tathagata]

I would take any criticism of grammar and word choices as a " No I don't think it's great"
Or is that too simple a solution??

 

[Lauren Hynde]

We would go nowhere in life, gain nothing, without those people who do things differently from everyone else. If the guy who invented the wheel bent to the people who told him he was doing it wrong by their standards, would we even have wheels?

Did the guy who invented the wheel listen to the people who told him that things would roll better if he rounded the edges, or did he stay with his original design of triangle-shaped wheel because it better expressed the symbolic connection between the earth, the sea and the sky?

 

[Tathagata]

i need a list and photos of all available bitch slapping tools.

kind of a pick-your-sweet-poison page.

you are WAY to enthusiastic about this