Acceptable punishments

[LadyIlsa]

All of my punishments are self-limiting and it seems some here are discussing scenes more than 'punishments'.

My punishments do not require a 'safe word' as they are specific, measurable punishments - i.e., 5 smacks on the ass, or being tied spread eagle for 20 minutes in a dark room alone.

Scenes are totally different and I think, off topic for the original question.

 

[Curious_L]

Okay, I'll try to be as quick and clear as possible.

Bibunny, nh23, lux221- I agree, you can't control panic. And you should not be punished for that reason. That is why Master held me until I could speak again. Then He explained that He was not perfect and not tapping out or using a safeword was dangerous for that very reason.

catalina, Blushing bottom, serijules- Thank you. You explained it much better than I could.

SweetErica - I believe I had the ability to 'tap out' and choose not to do so. It was my mistake, my overestimation of what I can handle, that caused me to panic.

Stengral - Lol. My Master and I use the same safeword system.

 

[serijules]

All of my punishments are self-limiting and it seems some here are discussing scenes more than 'punishments'.

My punishments do not require a 'safe word' as they are specific, measurable punishments - i.e., 5 smacks on the ass, or being tied spread eagle for 20 minutes in a dark room alone.

Scenes are totally different and I think, off topic for the original question.

The punishment part of this conversation is for not safewording during a different scene, no one is talking about safewording during a punishment.

 

[LadyIlsa]

I was asked by my Master to think of alternate punishments for when I mis-behaved. Beyond the expected spankings or occasional slap. I'm drawing a complete blank, so I thought I'd ask your opinions.

What kind of punishments would you use / have you used in the past? And why?

This is the original question I refer to. The mention of safewords didn't come up until people began questioning her Doms reasons for wanting her to come up with her punishments. This was the 'off topic' part to which I referred.

When my children were small, I used the same tactic with them. Asking them "what do you deserve" as punishment for an infraction always resulted in them coming up with a harsher punishment than I would have meted out.

They did this for the same reason a sub does - to please. And because if they are too easy on themselves they run the risk of further displeasure from their Dom.

Now, granted, I am new to this, but I know that the punishments I prescribed for myself were pretty harsh - but also within my known limits - or just beyond.

Curious_L, let your own limits be your guide. You know what you don't like. Those are punishments.

 

[_kiana_]

If people never went off topic in threads, I think this would be a pretty boring place actually. The deep conversations/discussions would never be gotten to because we'd be so worried about staying on topic.

And once you've been here for a while (or any BDSM forum really), the same thread asking for the same thing over and over kinda gets...tiring. Most people here have heard the "I need to come up with punishments" thing a million times and like to delve a bit deeper into it. And appropriate punishment for one person is not for another, and most people around here will want to know what the infraction was before giving advice on a punishment because they come up with the punishment according to the infraction.

So someone coming and asking help to make up punishments, with no other information, will rarely get much help. That's why people were asking questions for more information, which led to the safeword discussion. Is that really a bad thing?

 

[Netzach]

If I do it a certain way and have a post to the effect of "whaddaya think?" I am prepared, nay, certain, that people will call me out as an abusive and selfish bitch for it.

I'm just saying this is why I can see this being less than 100 percent effective for certain people. Definitely.

I personally don't feel like not punishing someone for trying to be a macho ass with their safeword is letting it go either. There's more than one way to skin this cat. Reluctance to safeword or say "no really, really NO I have a good reason, please stop" however you communicate that --- well that's almost universal among bottoms. Most people want to feel like they're tough and want to feel like they're pleasing even and even especially at their own expense - divorcing "I can't do this now" from a sense of failure IS important, but punishment isn't the only means for that dialogue and for a lot of people would be counterproductive to the point of abusive to them.

Some people *need* to feel like they're in a lose-lose situation with no power to feel like they're really owned, and some people can't function with that feeling for a second. It's all good, there are still myriad ways to control your ass.

But I didn't jump on anyone. I simply pointed out this is how *I* feel about it and what *I* bring to the situation, and that my perspective is not some online last year I found castlerealm and read it position. As I said, it's not my bottom, it's not REALLY my buisiness, but opinion was solicited. I agree that the message is important to get across. I have limited patience with people who are soooper doooper delicate as bottoms/subs for the most part (M is an exception and even then not THAT volatile) - but this is a message that I personally chose to get across logically and through discussions with him, because I know that had I gone the "you will be punished if you don't do it this way" route there will be no direct and positive benefit and a lot *more* confusion of the issue, not less.

Honestly, reading further posts from the OP, I don't know that I'd be punishing her, but I might be looking at the situation as "I need to train this person to be more verbal in general and not sink as deep." You can punish someone for not getting it right, sure, but you could also hand them some of the tools you want them to use with some repeated training - seems more likely to become second nature if you do hand her over to someone else to play with her. Certain small negative reinforcements are definitely part of how I train - reprimand, repetition, lecture - but I still don't think I would be framing this as "and now you will be punished for trying to tough out more than you could handle because you really wanted to please me." That seems liable to cross the wires of even really smart people in ways that might kill that "I want to please you" completely.

 

[Life_Noir]

I apologize. I never should've stepped into this thread to begin with. And, then, I should've stayed away like I said I was going to do. Now, I'm going to stop looking before I have a Life_Noir-type meltdown on the circular reasoning and the superiority complexes demonstrated 'round this place.

And so, I break a promise to myself and post this... Not that logging on isn't odd enough by itself these days..

Lessee............

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh No... Wouldn't touch this whole damned thing with someone elses ten foot pole... Ordinarily... But I'm bored....
*lol*

Hmmm Since I've gone this far, I will {At the risk of alienating [yet again] a certain segment of the Lit. postership.. Which risk I am willing to live with} say this much.

The word "punishment", in my experience and practice, implies a certain type of relationship. One in which the imposition of a "punishment" is apropriate. To both {or however many} parties. The last part being the key to the situation.

Safewords are a safety device... That act as a backup to the observation, experience, and acumen of the PYL. Because PYL's are just human {random assertions to the contrary aside} and cannot actually tell what is going on in the pyl's psyche.

Punishing someone who has not been able to use their safeword is ridiculous...
Punishing someone who has refused to use their safeword...And ended in over their head... Is problematic, but perfectly apropriate.
Declining to play with someone who refuses to use their safeword and has meltdowns.. Well, that's just a form of self preservation. As is declining to play with someone who has repeated meltdowns {that are not linked to a "specific activity, previously discussed and agreed upon of course"}.

*shrug*

I have a certain tendancy to lapse into what is sometimes described as "old school".. Others tend to just call me random bad names..
Can't say as I really care much anymore...
Been doing this stuff a long time and I am what I am... And while I am moderately flexible in outlook, I don't really intend to try and change.. Frankly, I've decided that I would rather "do without" than to change.
WHy is this pertinent you ask? See the above "decline to play" statements.
As well as...
I might tell a pyl to make a list of punishments... But, I'd be doing it for a reason. One that has nothing to do with laziness.
But.
I personally would never ask one to go on a board and ask others for punishments.
Matter of fact... I tend to lump that, and the airing of internal relationship issues on public boards into the "decline to play" catagory..
Just for the record..I also think that last one falls into the catagory of an immediate "Darlin don't let the door hit your ass...But the road's that way" catagory.

And for the record...None of the above is a snipe at the PYL of the OP.
It IS however, a relatively mild poke at certain folks who tend to forget that we each have our individual relationships, and it is up to each of us to set the terms thereof.
And as long as both the individuals involved agree to the terms of the relationship {within certain limits [disclaimer included for people who cannot confine their consideration to the bounds of relative normality and wander off into left field (like me )]} *shrug* Then C’est la vie.

 

[Netzach]

Declining to play with someone who refuses to use their safeword and has meltdowns.. Well, that's just a form of self preservation. As is declining to play with someone who has repeated meltdowns {that are not linked to a "specific activity, previously discussed and agreed upon of course"}.

*shrug*

I love you. Please post more. This is gold.

 

[Life_Noir]

I love you. Please post more. This is gold.

That reminds me...

You're an abusive and selfish bitch...
But an amazingly sensible one....

And we love you for it

 

[Netzach]

That reminds me...

You're an abusive and selfish bitch...
But an amazingly sensible one....

And we love you for it

Aw. Big scaly fuzzies.

 

[serijules]

If people never went off topic in threads, I think this would be a pretty boring place actually. The deep conversations/discussions would never be gotten to because we'd be so worried about staying on topic.

And once you've been here for a while (or any BDSM forum really), the same thread asking for the same thing over and over kinda gets...tiring. Most people here have heard the "I need to come up with punishments" thing a million times and like to delve a bit deeper into it. And appropriate punishment for one person is not for another, and most people around here will want to know what the infraction was before giving advice on a punishment because they come up with the punishment according to the infraction.

So someone coming and asking help to make up punishments, with no other information, will rarely get much help. That's why people were asking questions for more information, which led to the safeword discussion. Is that really a bad thing?

*blinks* who said it was a bad thing?? The safeword discussion IS on topic, the original poster was speaking of being punished for not safewording....

 

[KarennaC]

When I started reading this thread, especially snowbyte's comments, my first impression was that it was as others have explained, that the OP was being punished for not safewording/tapping out when she recognized a situation that was leading her to a panic attack, not for actually having the attack.

I don't know much about BDSM, but one way in which having her choose her own punishment might be beneficial, in my opinion, is that through determining what she dislikes, what things would truly be punishing to her, she might also gain more insight into the sort of situation that might cause her to have panic attacks, which might help her communicate better with her Dom about those situations before she's actually in them.

During "vanilla" sex, I've had flashbacks. One was so severe I almost gave my partner a black eye trying to fight him off. I recognized the flashback coming on, but was stubborn enough to think that I could fend it off. I couldn't. Had I spoken up, the action would have stopped and my partner would have avoided being punched in the face. It was my responsibility to say something, and I chose not to. Not quite the same thing, since it wasn't a Dom/sub situation, but I think it is the same idea as what the OP dealt with. Because I didn't say anything, the situation became dangerous for my partner, and could have for me as well (I was fighting so hard to get away that I could have hurt myself). Being reminded to speak up when a flashback was coming on probably would have been a good thing.

 

[_kiana_]

*blinks* who said it was a bad thing?? The safeword discussion IS on topic, the original poster was speaking of being punished for not safewording....

Sorry - I forgot to quote LadyIlsa in my reply. I was trying to explain to her that questioning to OP to get more information was only going to help receive better answers and not really off topic at all. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job explaining myself.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Nah, I didn't mean you in particular. Just the whole thread in general. Threads like this normally don't make it past the first page. By looking back at the old ones it seems like it's sort of a sheep mentality thing. If one person offers advice then others give ideas on the punishment. On the other hand if everyone starts to say we're not giving you wank off material, or it's not our job to think of punishments then others follow suit. Or maybe it's the moods of the posters on that particular day. I have no idea. I just know this thread has confused the shit out of me.

'Tis OK, didn't really think you did. You will notice this happens on many topics here, and yes, it is a lot like sheep or lemming mentality. It also happens and is commented on at Flickr in groups where people enter competitions....it is not unusual to see the majority vote the same as the first person or the one before them irrespective of quality or talent of the other submissions. Guess it is part of human nature to feel safety in numbers and not rock the boat, or perhaps at times just lack of caring enough t think, but as much as I hate conflict I cannot be one who thinks or works that way...lol, would make my life here (and at home too) easier at times if I did though.

Catalina

 

[snowbyte]

I'll add a couple of bits here, just for clarification.

L panicked/freaked out at a point where neither of us expected it. I recognized the situation for what it was, we decompressed, and we talked about it. I also recognized it as a learning experience for her. Having her come up with an appropriate punishment was a means to an end. The 'end' was for her to understand what happened. The fact that she came here for info was a bonus/side-effect.

She needs to know that there are situations where safewords are meaningless if she is incapable of using them. Just because you agree on safewords with someone, etc..., doesn't necessarily mean you can completely trust them to read you perfectly. I realize I may get kicked in the nutz if one of us screws up in the future, but that is a much better alternative than her getting hurt by someone else.


When this exercise is finished for her, she may come back to me and say, "I don't think that it's appropriate for you to punish me for this and these are the reasons why..." If she presents a clear, lucid argument she may be rewarded instead of being punished. I don't want blind obedience from her. I want her to think, I want her to learn, I want her to know. Any punishment that she receives in this instance is ultimately irrelevant to what she learns as a part of the process.