Adjectives: No, there wasn't 'a hot juicy wet pussy'.

[Rumple Foreskin]

Greetings,

First of all, thanks to Pure, Colly, WOK, and all the others who have contributed to this thread. For what it's worth, this is Rumple's late night take on the subject.

There is only one, unbreakable rule in writing fiction: "Thou shalt not bore thy reader." However, one of the more important sub-clauses states: "If "normal" readers notice your use of adjectives or adverbs, you've used too many and/or picked lousy ones."

If I were editing Colly's first paragraph and wanted to respect her style (which, IMHO, is pretty damn good) I'd ask her to, at a minimum, decide which of the two mentions of "marble" should be omitted. She might also consider whether or not to replace entirely one reference to marble rail or railing.

The second sentence is IMHO a little confusing but that has little to do with adjectives.

"The vivid shades of blue that (WHICH?) normally graced the glassy(OMIT "GLASSY") surface (ADD "WHEN GLASSY") were (ADD "NOW") shot through with angry greens and the (OMIT "THE") waves (ADD "WHICH") carried white crowns of foam."

RF version: The vivid shades of blue which normally graced the surface when glassy were now shot through with angry greens, and waves which carried white crowns of foam. (I'd be tempted to add an adjective before "waves".)

--

Perhaps the ulitimate example of minimalist writing is the famous line from one of Hemingway's Nick Adams stories. "He went to the river. The river was there."

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Boota]

I'm a musician primarily, and I approach writing in much the same way as I do music. If it sounds right, it is right. It is all subjective and reliant on the nature of the work. Sometimes using a lot of adjectives works, and is even necessary. Sometimes it is too much. When I write I always think, "How important is it that the reader knows this?" That helps me come up with a pretty decent economy of language. But I also think, "What would sound really cool right here?" And that allows me to have fun while writing.

I'm sure an editor would tear my writing apart. But I only write because I want to. It's not my job (yet).

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I've stayed out of this because I think the discussion is kind of silly. Writing isn't natural science: outside of the basic mechanics of the English language, there aren't any laws. You write what sounds good to you.

---dr.M.

 

[Pure]

hot, heavy, scorching, mind-blowing sex


Jeez, Boota, that's a coincidence. Unaware of your posting, I just searched several stories, *concentrating on sexual descriptions,* and picked two examples, the first showing good control of adjectives. It was your piece! The second example, imo, is problematic.

Sex writing seems to have special problems, so instead of landscapes and oceans, I wanted to look at porn/erotica sex descriptions.

Both pieces below are competently written, however. What do readers think of them, as sex writing, esp. in relation to adjectives and adverbs? Is any preference simply a matter of taste, or is there an objective, qualitative difference in the two.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=116250

Man in the Woods, by Boota


The man picked up her right leg and placed it over his shoulder, spreading her for his kiss. His tongue moved out slowly, pushing the few strands of hair out of its way as it found her clitoris, engorged and reddened. She raised her head and cried out, one arm bent back along the trunk of the tree, the other holding his head. She involuntarily ground her pussy onto his face, hard against his mouth. Her left leg nearly buckled when he curled his tongue around her clit and gently sucked it into his mouth, coaxing her orgasm in much the same way she had attempted to bring his. He sucked at her softly, yet voraciously. He was a man starving for her, trying to engulf her entirely into himself. A deep, resounding growl rose from his throat, the air vibrating from his lips and sending her once again over that edge.

She let out a small scream just as a distant clap of thunder began to rumble over the forest. She rode the waves of the thunder as it faded away. She screamed again, another orgasm ripping through her, pulling her entire being to her center. To his mouth.

The tree bark was rough on her back, possibly cutting her, but she was beyond caring. She leaned forward, pressing harder to his lips, and then slamming herself back against the tree in pure wantonness, over and over. There was no pain.

She didn’t realize it when he brought her leg from his shoulder and back to the ground, so lost in ecstasy was she. Her body trembled still, the remnants of the climax still rippling outward from her core, as she sagged against the oak, eyes closed. Every nerve in her body refocused its intention to carrying on the devastating feelings coursing through it.

===
A Horny Woman, by High Country Scribler

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=117216

Shelly screamed when Roger kissed and started to lick the throbbing soft pink flesh of her spread pussy. Her heavy soft thighs closed around Roger’s head as she arched up against his mouth. Roger smiled to himself as he fumbled with the bottle of baby oil while his tongue licked at her pussy. “No, no don’t do that,” Shelly yelled. Roger had managed to spread oil on his finger and was rubbing at her tight little ass pucker. Shelly arched a little higher straining to escape the finger. She sagged back a little gasping when the finger left. Roger felt her thighs tighten and knew she was close as she arched higher against his mouth. Roger returned the finger to her tight ass pucker with more oil. “No, no, I can’t, do that,” Shelly whined gasping arching her ass high off the bed as she tried desperately to stay off the finger. Her thighs were quivering from the strain and Roger could feel her ass pucker slowly spreading around his finger as her muscles weakened. He licked up to her hard clit and ran his tongue over it at the same time running his thumb into her juicy pussy. “Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiit, gooooooooooooood,” Shelly yelled softly out of breath as she gave up her ass to his finger. Her orgasm consumed her as her pussy and ass muscles squeezed tight around Roger’s finger and thumb while he sucked and licked gently on her clit. Pussy juice ran from her like a river as he gently squeezed the membrane between her vagina and anal channel. Suddenly the fingers and mouth were gone and Shelly lay there jerking and twitching in the aftermath.
[end excerpt]
===

 

[Pure]

hi dr m,

you said,

I've stayed out of this because I think the discussion is kind of silly. Writing isn't natural science: outside of the basic mechanics of the English language, there aren't any laws. You write what sounds good to you.

Thanks for dropping in. I hope you won't mind if we toiling peasants have a look at some basics! I find spare, powerful writing a continuing challenge.

J.

 

[BadBombshellBabe]

not every style will work for every reader....and all the fancy adjectives in the world won't change that.

i try to write in a style that is similar to my conversational style. hopefully it makes for smooth, believable read...for many. but no matter which adjectives i use...realistically, i know not everyone will like my stories.

maybe some writers get carried away with all the technical stuff and 4 syllable words because they think it will induce more positive feedback. personally, when reading... erotica in particular, the excessive , poetic BS turns me off.

 

[Pure]

BBB, What do you think of the merits or 'success' of the two examples?

 

[BadBombshellBabe]

the first story is a little wordy for me...but as you pointed out, this style of writing is a matter of taste.

although elloquently written, i probably would've skipped the rest of the first story, unless it were a part of a novel i was reading. in terms of the types of stories i prefer to read here at Lit...the second story definitely captured my attention. it's that personal preference thing again...i like graphic and edgy material.

 

[Boota]

Thanks for the nod, Pure.

That was the first time I ever attempted to write like that. Usually I stay in a conversational tone, I just wanted to try something different. I had never attempted to write erotica before either, so it was all new to me. I have a book coming out soon, but it is written in first person, so the tone and flow are entirely different. But, I think I managed to stay true to my intent while writing in character. I'm not sure if it matters if you are writing about sex or not. Words are words and you just have to put them in the right place to get your point across, whether you want the reader to be horny or angry or sympathetic.

BBB, I know exactly what you mean. That was something I was grappling with as I wrote that piece. How graphic should I make it? The thing is, I was writing it specifically for two women that I know and I knew they would like it that way. With all the different varieties of subjects and styles on this site there is no way to please everyone. Only a fool would try. But I love the fact that there is such a wide and diverse forum for these different styles. I've read a lot of stuff on here that I would never write, but that I enjoyed reading.

 

[mtnman2003]

Direct, to the point, with what is expected

I know much can be said for all "perfect" or proper use of the language. While trying to be direct, using words, phrases, descriptions that will convey the point of the story, I find I try to write simple, yet complete "points in time of the story".

Dr. M., really appreciate your complete answer. Each writes what they feel conveys the story for them.

I wonder if stories with too much use of language, bores the readers where they will move to the stroke sections, get the point of the story, and move on.

Not many new words we can use to describe the parts of the body in which we focus our stories.

Good thread. Enjoyed reading all so far.

Mind may be numb, but worth reading.

Mtn

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Greetings,

This is just a subjective generalization about the use of adjectives and descriptive passages. A school teacher lady-type friend of mine said that at her in-person writer's group, the guys usually advise her to cut back on the "flowery" adjectives and simplify her writing while most of the gals have no problem with her style.

There does seem to be a TENDENCY for women writers to use more description than do their male conuterparts. And before the ghost of Bella Abzug rises up to smite me shoulder and thigh, there are men who often use elaborate descriptions and women who are almost Hemingwayesque in their style.

As I said, it's just a subjective generalization.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Guest]

the ghost of Bella Abzug...

Bella died? No one told me.

You're cool, Rumps.

Perdita

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Bella died? No one told me.

You're cool, Rumps.

Perdita

Perdita,

You got me to second-guessing and double-thinking myself, which is a real chore since even single-minded thinking by me is a major achievement. Here's a line from the CUNY web site:

"At the age of 77 Bella Abzug died on Tuesday, March 31, 1998 after complications following heart surgery in her hometown, New York City."

I saw her once, back when she was in Congress, marching in the NYC St. Patrick's day parade but I never got to meet her.

--

As for me being cool; that's only true about my feet.

Rumple

 

[Pure]

OK, let me lay some cards on the table. The second passage, though generally good, has the following phrases, which I find
stale:

soft pink flesh
her tight little ass pucker (twice)
her hard clit
her juicy pussy
Pussy juice ran from her like a river


Does anyone agree or disagree?

I don't see this problem in the first passage, though it's a little heavy in the adverb area. It is, imo, generally fresher.

Perhaps someone of the "Good writing is a mystery never to be explained" school, like dr. m., will respond, and, I would expect, DISagree.

Perhaps he or she will explain why lack of freshness, presence of cliche (here, in adjectives) does not really matter;
or, why stale words may be just fine, or, it's all a matter of taste.
(I know, some porn readers just love cliches and the more 'enormous cocks, hard as steel,' the better. Piffle.)

J.

 

[Boxlicker101]

her tight little ass pucker (twice)

"Pucker" is usually a verb and isn't right here. "Her tight little puckered ass" would make more sense but it is too many adjectives and probably shouldn't have been repeated so soon. I see nothing wrong with the other forms, considering that we are referring to erotic stories. "Juicy pussy" is very descriptive and I don't see how it can be called "stale" just because other people have combined those two words. Personally, I think modifiers, either adjectives or adverbs, are the heart of etoricica

 

[Pure]

Boxlicker said,


Personally, I think modifiers, either adjectives or adverbs, are the heart of etoricica.

-----

Can I quote you on that?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Can I quote you on that?

Hi, Pure.
Of course you can quote me on that. If it were otherwise, I wouldn't have posted it here. I used a lot of words to say pretty much the same thing earlier:

I think the number of adjectives depends mostly on what you are trying to write. A good stroke story depends on adjectives because they help the reader picture what is happening. I can say "her pussy" or I can say "her dripping-wet pussy with the pouty lips and the engorged clit". I can say "his cock" or I can say "his big, stiff cock with the purple, wedge-shaped head, protruding from the jungle of pubic hair. Words like "with" and "and" and "from" are not actually adjectives but they are part of adjectival phrases. Personally, I like to use a lot of adjectives, but even I would consider the two examples at the start of the thread to be overdone

 

[Guest]

Boxlicker, little hint: look at your spelling of 'erotica'.

Oh, and just for the record, I find the use of merely 'his cock' a lot stronger and more arousing.

Here's an example of my own writing, from my NaNo novel:

Kat needed to touch his sex. She pulled his pants down and curled her fingers around his shaft. He took a sharp intake of breath through his teeth, which sounded almost like a hiss.

Matt’s mouth went to her neck, and nibbled at the soft skin there. Kat responded by increasing her grip on his cock, he in turn responded by pulling down her panties.

His hands grabbed hold of her butt cheeks, and lifted her off the ground. She wrapped her legs around him, and felt herself being carried backwards, until she felt rough tree bark against her. His cock began probing and forcing its way inside her. She responded by trying to impale herself on him.

With one push he was inside her, up to the hilt. She had her arms wrapped around his neck and arched her own, letting out a long moan. They were fucking hard and fast now, thrusting in unison. Every time his balls smacked against her he let out a deep grunt.

Kat felt an orgasm building inside her, beginning at the core of her sex and expanding. Over-whelming spasms soared through her muscles, and those in her cunt contracted around his cock.

As she bucked, he fucked harder, smacking his body against hers with each thrust. She knew he was about to climax, as his eyes widened and he clenched his teeth. She wrapped her legs around him tighter, forcing him deep as he came.

They held that position for a while, panting in each other’s ears. The goose bumps on her body had been replaced by a layer of perspiration. She was no longer cold, her muscles burned with heat. All she could say was, “Wow!”

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, so I used a few adjectives and adverbs in that passage, but not many, and none at all in relation to sexual organs. It makes cleaner, and to me, sexier sounding erotica. Notice my one use of the word 'cunt', to me it's powerful in its pure and singular use.

Lou

 

[Pure]

That's a nice example Lou. Powerful. You show, imo, good, controlled use of adjectives (and adverbs) which is all that those of the 'sparse, tight, lean writing school'--like me--have been advocating.

It might be noted that descriptions are not necessarily impoverished with fewer adjectives. The idea of "juicy" is easily conveyed in dozens of ways: "He stabbed into her cunt; she thrust in response, and felt the juices running down the inside of her thighs."




PS: Is tree bark really 'in' these days? Note, besides your example, in Boota's excerpt I posted:

The tree bark was rough on her back, possibly cutting her, but she was beyond caring.

There's something about forest fucks, I guess

 

[Boxlicker101]

Boxlicker, little hint: look at your spelling of 'erotica'.

I must say, that is about the worst typo I can remember making.

Like Pure said, Lou, that is a very nice passage. You don't really need many adjectives when you are describing action but they are useful when you are describing something. Like: "I looked lustfully at her dripping-wet pussy with the pouty lips and the engorged clit" or: The women looked with rapture at his big, stiff cock with the purple, wedge-shaped head, protruding from the jungle of pubic hair." Actually, that second sentence is a little overdone. I could easily omit the participial phrase.

I want to emphasize why I am looking lustfully or the women are looking with rapture. Later, I would say "He stroked his cock slowly in and out of her pussy while she clung with her legs to his hips." No adjectives needed there because I have already described the organs involved. The one adverb is actually needed because I want to emphasize the slow pace being used.

 

[Pure]

BL said,

//You don't really need many adjectives when you are describing action but they are useful when you are describing something. Like: "I looked lustfully at her dripping-wet pussy with the pouty lips and the engorged clit" or: The women looked with rapture at his big, stiff cock with the purple, wedge-shaped head, protruding from the jungle of pubic hair." Actually, that second sentence is a little overdone. I could easily omit the participial phrase.//

There's certainly a place for descriptions; a few are often given at the beginning. But the less generic, the better. Not "Jake was a big tall man." but "Jake towered over everyone in the room...."

I don't agree that action is the reason for lou's sparseness, and why it works. To take your first example. It's entirely generic.
Further the enumeration seems forced, imo.

Consider this suggestion: "I was in lust with her when I saw her pussy; the juices were already dripping half way to her knees; the inner lips were swelling and gave the effect of pouting, asking to be sucked."

People don't often just sit or stand 'looking.' On occasion, sure: "There was the tree, its lower branches as thick as a man's arm, its foliage tattered from a hundred storms. A thousand sparrows sat on the upper branches, squawking for no particular reason."

Hence the obvious artifice of the old 'mirror scenes' where the lady notes her DDs.

In your second case, consider. "Jackie was impressed with the size of his cock, and already tingled at the thought of its massive invasion, the purple head splitting apart her lips." Again, a run down of descriptors of his apparatus is generally contrived, and obviously so, in porn writing.

Those are my opinions only; just letting you know another pov.

J.

 

[whispering_surrender]

Okay, this is just my thoughts...so please only throw soft items....

But, to me, there is no right or wrong way to describe things. The way an author writes is often reflective of the way they talk and the way they think. And we are all different. And, in my humble opinion, that's what makes us interesting.

I've been watching this thread ramble along, and can't help thinking to myself, "Well, if everyone did it the right way, you'd only have to read one story....and the rest would be just the same...." So I applaud anyone who tries something new, something different. Some work and some don't, but at least you tried. Because, to me, there is nothing worse than reading something new and still swearing that you read it before.

But, perhaps that's just me.

Whisper

 

[Pure]

Hi Whispering,

Good comments,

you said,

//But, to me, there is no right or wrong way to describe things. The way an author writes is often reflective of the way they talk and the way they think. And we are all different. //[part deleted]

Well, styles change over the years and centuries. All expressions reflect the one who issues them. Good writing, however, has, usually from the first, a quality of freshness, imo. This implies novelty and a degree of complexity.

// there is nothing worse than reading something new and still swearing that you read it before.//

Exactly: You want freshness. If the way an author writes is cliched and predictable, esp. with a genre, it will read the same as a hundred other productions in that area, just as the mass produced romance novels do. Iow, there's no depth. Example; the kind of prose the thread started with; rock hard cock pounding her wet juicy pussy, then shooting scalding jism into her tight, eager cunt. Example: most porn movies.

Because it's predictable, people don't go back and re-read or re look. There's nothing there that wasn't seen; i.e., there was no depth. Even the enthusiasts' behavior indicates their quickly becoming bored; their need for another cheap porn movie or story in a hurry.

I wouldn't say 'right' or 'wrong', but some ways get dull pretty fast; when the would-be author thought of a pussy, she trotted out words, typically adjectives, that have been heard a million times. There are, of course, a thousand ways to write 'stale' stuff, but in porn one of the most common, imo, is to overload with adjectives and adverbs.

There, soft objects only, no tomatos at all.

best,
J.

 

[BadBombshellBabe]

i'm pretty new to the forums and i was just wondering...are the parts of speech frequently analyzed and scrutinized in such great detail?

 

[raphy]

i'm pretty new to the forums and i was just wondering...are the parts of speech frequently analyzed and scrutinized in such great detail?

Depends. Sometimes. After all, this is supposed to be the author's hangout - And so most of who post in this forum are either fairly experienced writers, or editors, or have a deep love of the English language and its forms and use.

Sometimes we just shoot the breeze. Sometimes we get into in-depth discussions about the finer points of the english language. Generally, it's pretty intelligent, stimulated and lively conversation in here.