Lauren Hynde
Hitched
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And then there's Pure.
Adjectives: No, there wasn't 'a hot juicy wet pussy'.
- Thread starter Pure
- Start date
BadBombshellBabe
disappointed
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maybe i'm mistaken, Raphy...but your post sounded a bit sarcastic, contemptuous even.
please don't misunderstand me...i've enjoyed following this thread during the past several days. if my forum ettiquette is less than perfect, please forgive me.
please don't misunderstand me...i've enjoyed following this thread during the past several days. if my forum ettiquette is less than perfect, please forgive me.
G
Guest
Guest
Dear BBB,
Some of us reserve sarcasm and contempt for Pure; it's a history and so perhaps a bit rude if noted among newbies.
To answer your previous query, I myself don't care for intense scrutiny of grammar and such, but I do appreciate it when I see it, and oft' enough learn something. My own bottom line authority is Gauche (who is not as prolific on detritus as Pure but then no one else is).
Perdita
Some of us reserve sarcasm and contempt for Pure; it's a history and so perhaps a bit rude if noted among newbies.
To answer your previous query, I myself don't care for intense scrutiny of grammar and such, but I do appreciate it when I see it, and oft' enough learn something. My own bottom line authority is Gauche (who is not as prolific on detritus as Pure but then no one else is).
Perdita
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Perdida, nice of you to drop in to a thread to which you don't wish to contribute.
I'm glad that you find targets for your venom, and that it's expressed publicly. It lets people see the hatreds boiling under all the kisses, 'love your AVs', your
[deleted]
J.
Similarly, thanks, Lauren. It's good that others will see pique and pettiness, besides your brilliance and eclat.
---------
perdita said,
//Dear BBB,
Some of us reserve sarcasm and contempt for Pure; it's a history and so perhaps a bit rude if noted among newbies.
To answer your previous query, I myself don't care for intense scrutiny of grammar and such, but I do appreciate it when I see it, and oft' enough learn something. My own bottom line authority is Gauche (who is not as prolific on detritus as Pure but then no one else is).
Perdita
//
I'm glad that you find targets for your venom, and that it's expressed publicly. It lets people see the hatreds boiling under all the kisses, 'love your AVs', your
[deleted]
J.
Similarly, thanks, Lauren. It's good that others will see pique and pettiness, besides your brilliance and eclat.
---------
perdita said,
//Dear BBB,
Some of us reserve sarcasm and contempt for Pure; it's a history and so perhaps a bit rude if noted among newbies.
To answer your previous query, I myself don't care for intense scrutiny of grammar and such, but I do appreciate it when I see it, and oft' enough learn something. My own bottom line authority is Gauche (who is not as prolific on detritus as Pure but then no one else is).
Perdita
//
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Lauren Hynde
Hitched
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I have done thee wrong. How can I continue to live with myself?
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Hi BBB,
you asked,
//i'm pretty new to the forums and i was just wondering...are the parts of speech frequently analyzed and scrutinized in such great detail?//
Some threads deal with good writing, some with fine points, and there's a variety of others, if you have a look, with topics like sheeps heads, latrines, politics, intestinal upsets, and recent purchases.
Hope some of them will suit!
J.
you asked,
//i'm pretty new to the forums and i was just wondering...are the parts of speech frequently analyzed and scrutinized in such great detail?//
Some threads deal with good writing, some with fine points, and there's a variety of others, if you have a look, with topics like sheeps heads, latrines, politics, intestinal upsets, and recent purchases.
Hope some of them will suit!
J.
gauchecritic
When there are grey skies
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Pure: Searching for smackdown.
Gauche (tired of that game. No contest)
Gauche (tired of that game. No contest)
G
Guest
Guest
Venom? Methinks the "lady" doth protest much.
addio, Perdita
addio, Perdita
G
Guest
Guest
Ooh, I love when Gauche and I post/cum together. 
Purr
Purr
Rumple Foreskin
The AH Patriarch
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For those interested in a gentler, kinder environment, there are, as of 8:30 pm central Texas time, two college football games on TV and a WWF classic wrestling show on pay-per-view.
Peace, baby.
Rumple
Peace, baby.
Rumple
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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This passage is for the adjective lovers and advocates; your views have been heard.
J.
So let's look into it.
This example is intended to show a mastery of these words, used copiously, in a very powerful scene, which is descriptive, yet over-the-top active at the same time. Question: What makes the abundant adjectives work? Is it because lots of them follow the nouns? Side note: There is a complete absence of ly adverbs. What is achieved in that way?
M Christian, Intercore, in Best American Erotica, 1994, ed. Bright.
[The male, a photographer, is meeting {screenname} bytebitch—after lots of cyber contacts--on a deserted street and she's been posing on the abandoned carcass of a car. He has a direct-to-CD digital camera. She's shown and tortured her breasts a bit, and now completely opens her black raincoat. ]
[direct quote]
Snap, snap, snap, snap.
No underwear. Bare crease, cleft of a smooth, polished cunt. No stubble—industrial shaving for her. She was wet, and she shone and gleamed in the streetlight's hard arc stare. Her cleft was a reflective streak between a soft, valentine mons. She leaned back on the fender and rubbed a palm against her cunt, pressing hard and up, touching palm to clit. A rough, ham-handed masturbation. One foot anchored and she hoisted herself up onto the remains of the headlight mount. Braced, she spread her legs, one booted foot on either side of the car…Legs spread, she cupped her cunt with one black-nailed hand.
I taped, I taped, I taped. Black like a beetle's back, those polished fingers went around the red bead of a hard, hard clit, then up inside [byte]bitch's cunt. Back and forth, back and forth, a liquid action, repetitive and slow. I taped and taped as her hand got wetter and wetter.
Beautiful shot, her hand, her wrists, her arms reflecting the shine of the streetlight, wet from her juice.
bytebitch, pushed off, turned, and I caught it all. She whipped around, black raincoat flying, wrapping itself around her. Her ass walked backward, toward me. Her legs, pale and white---boots scuffed, looking like little black cats playing in the junk. She moaned, like a deep-throated kitten getting a barbed dick. The raincoat flipped up and over her.
Bare and perfect, her ass was full and round, and with her legs spread everything was there for the cold night and the colder lens of my camera: twin cheeks curving up and down and around to a pair of velvet, wet cunt lips. The glow was real and wet under the hard light, her lips were parted, churning with her rough jerking off. Three? Four? Was her hand in there? Fisting herself in the harsh light? I saw and taped her lips squirm and bubble with pussy juice. Her moans became hard and quick, forced and stubborn. She grunted while jerking off, deep masculine sounds. …
I focused and watched. Focused and watched, precise cross hairs on the wide wet cunt, foamed and slick from her juice. Thighs shimmering, clit—a perfect shot—a red marble when she pulled back her pointed collection of black fingertips. I taped, numbers flowing….
[end quote]
J.
So let's look into it.
This example is intended to show a mastery of these words, used copiously, in a very powerful scene, which is descriptive, yet over-the-top active at the same time. Question: What makes the abundant adjectives work? Is it because lots of them follow the nouns? Side note: There is a complete absence of ly adverbs. What is achieved in that way?
M Christian, Intercore, in Best American Erotica, 1994, ed. Bright.
[The male, a photographer, is meeting {screenname} bytebitch—after lots of cyber contacts--on a deserted street and she's been posing on the abandoned carcass of a car. He has a direct-to-CD digital camera. She's shown and tortured her breasts a bit, and now completely opens her black raincoat. ]
[direct quote]
Snap, snap, snap, snap.
No underwear. Bare crease, cleft of a smooth, polished cunt. No stubble—industrial shaving for her. She was wet, and she shone and gleamed in the streetlight's hard arc stare. Her cleft was a reflective streak between a soft, valentine mons. She leaned back on the fender and rubbed a palm against her cunt, pressing hard and up, touching palm to clit. A rough, ham-handed masturbation. One foot anchored and she hoisted herself up onto the remains of the headlight mount. Braced, she spread her legs, one booted foot on either side of the car…Legs spread, she cupped her cunt with one black-nailed hand.
I taped, I taped, I taped. Black like a beetle's back, those polished fingers went around the red bead of a hard, hard clit, then up inside [byte]bitch's cunt. Back and forth, back and forth, a liquid action, repetitive and slow. I taped and taped as her hand got wetter and wetter.
Beautiful shot, her hand, her wrists, her arms reflecting the shine of the streetlight, wet from her juice.
bytebitch, pushed off, turned, and I caught it all. She whipped around, black raincoat flying, wrapping itself around her. Her ass walked backward, toward me. Her legs, pale and white---boots scuffed, looking like little black cats playing in the junk. She moaned, like a deep-throated kitten getting a barbed dick. The raincoat flipped up and over her.
Bare and perfect, her ass was full and round, and with her legs spread everything was there for the cold night and the colder lens of my camera: twin cheeks curving up and down and around to a pair of velvet, wet cunt lips. The glow was real and wet under the hard light, her lips were parted, churning with her rough jerking off. Three? Four? Was her hand in there? Fisting herself in the harsh light? I saw and taped her lips squirm and bubble with pussy juice. Her moans became hard and quick, forced and stubborn. She grunted while jerking off, deep masculine sounds. …
I focused and watched. Focused and watched, precise cross hairs on the wide wet cunt, foamed and slick from her juice. Thighs shimmering, clit—a perfect shot—a red marble when she pulled back her pointed collection of black fingertips. I taped, numbers flowing….
[end quote]
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gauchecritic
When there are grey skies
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Pure said:
Answer one: They don't particularly work, neither well nor poorly.
Answer two: The achievement of the effect of your beloved terse writing.
Gauche
Pure. Do you think this is good? Why?
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Why not give your reasons, gauche? It would help a discussion.
The story was published in _Future Sex_, and later chosen (among 20) by Susy Bright--herself a well known author-- from hundreds, so I think we're entitled to a presumption of good quality, at least in some respects, though tastes differ.
J.
The story was published in _Future Sex_, and later chosen (among 20) by Susy Bright--herself a well known author-- from hundreds, so I think we're entitled to a presumption of good quality, at least in some respects, though tastes differ.
J.
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Rumple Foreskin
The AH Patriarch
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Pure,
I was piddlin' with a reply, had most of it finished when it went, Poof!. Judge accordingly.
This is a spare, intense, almost breathless style that, at times, has the feel of a police report. Not using "ly" adverbs makes the prose strong and active. While the position of the adjectives plays a part in creating this style, so does the choice of adjectives, and the organization of the sentences.
There were a couple of points where I felt the grammar and sentence organization could benefit from some tinkering.
That might be a spot where a more traditional noun, adjective arrangement, or different punctuation, might have eased my confusion.
Also, and again IMHO, this line would read better if rearranged:
This is a powerful style and I can see where it would attract postive comments. But as we've talked about before, I believe the very power and intensity of the style is its chief limitaion.
Rumple
I was piddlin' with a reply, had most of it finished when it went, Poof!. Judge accordingly.
This is a spare, intense, almost breathless style that, at times, has the feel of a police report. Not using "ly" adverbs makes the prose strong and active. While the position of the adjectives plays a part in creating this style, so does the choice of adjectives, and the organization of the sentences.
There were a couple of points where I felt the grammar and sentence organization could benefit from some tinkering.
On my first read I thought she had pale legs and was wearing white boots that looked like black cats. That made no sense, even to me, so I re-read it and this time, "...pale and white..." got my attention instead of the em dash, and I decided she had pale, white legs and was wearing scuffed boots which looked like black cats.
That might be a spot where a more traditional noun, adjective arrangement, or different punctuation, might have eased my confusion.
Also, and again IMHO, this line would read better if rearranged:
My suggestion would be to place the last phrase, "...wet from her juice..." between "...arms - reflecting..."
This is a powerful style and I can see where it would attract postive comments. But as we've talked about before, I believe the very power and intensity of the style is its chief limitaion.
Rumple
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bridgeburner
threadkiller
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I don't think the number of adjectives is the deciding factor. Long lists of adjectives can be tedious, but it's not a hard and fast rule. Most people may not be able to pull it off, but I think it's limiting to insist that a tool which an average writer wields clumsily should be kept out of the hands of all writers.
I found the ass pucker story had a tendency to repeat the same adjectives too close together or to use too many lists of adjectives as a kind of short cut to really describing things. The overuse of metaphor can be equally tedious, however. Sometimes I just want to read "juicy, pink pussy" rather than "she opened like a flower to the sun, glistening drops of lust-dew inviting me to suck the petals of her flesh."
The long and the short of it is that there are guides and suggestions but not everyone can use the same literary tools with equal facility and skill. That's all words are anyway: tools.
If you think about it like nails in boards, one nail may be enough in some situations, other tasks require more, but there is also a point at which you've placed so many nails that you've weakend the wood and nothing is going to hold together anyway. If you're building a wigwam you might not need any nails at all, but not everyone is building a wigwam.
-B
I found the ass pucker story had a tendency to repeat the same adjectives too close together or to use too many lists of adjectives as a kind of short cut to really describing things. The overuse of metaphor can be equally tedious, however. Sometimes I just want to read "juicy, pink pussy" rather than "she opened like a flower to the sun, glistening drops of lust-dew inviting me to suck the petals of her flesh."
The long and the short of it is that there are guides and suggestions but not everyone can use the same literary tools with equal facility and skill. That's all words are anyway: tools.
If you think about it like nails in boards, one nail may be enough in some situations, other tasks require more, but there is also a point at which you've placed so many nails that you've weakend the wood and nothing is going to hold together anyway. If you're building a wigwam you might not need any nails at all, but not everyone is building a wigwam.
-B
bridgeburner
threadkiller
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I agree although I would have said the distinctness of the style is its limitation. Very distinctive styles provoke stronger reactions both good and bad. It's great if people like it but it sucks if they don't.
I can enjoy stories in bold, unique styles, but I don't want everything I read to be an attempt on the literary edge. Usually I just want to be told a story without the style or the literacy of the author getting in the way.
In fact, I'm far more likely to be disgusted and put down a story where I think the author is just showing off than I am to put down a story where the author is just average. I think it's because I want the story to be paramount, not the author's literary skills.
It's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of poetry. I'm not all that in love with words for their own sake. Not that I'm not a fan of the well-turned phrase, I am, but I like the well-turned phrase because of the idea or image that it evokes not because it's exhibiting some stellar grammatical principle.
-B
Boxlicker101
Licker of Boxes
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Hi, BB.
Although we have had our disagreements on another thread, I agree with everything you said on those last two posts.
I hope that doesn't cause you to take it back.
Although we have had our disagreements on another thread, I agree with everything you said on those last two posts.
I hope that doesn't cause you to take it back.
bridgeburner
threadkiller
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I'm not in the habit of changing my stance on an issue out of petulance.
-B
-B
dr_mabeuse
seduce the mind
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Pure said:
It's not that good writing is a mystery never to be explained. (The creation of good writing is a mystery, and there's no way to explain how it's done, but that doesn't keep us from trying.) It's just that there's a lot more to good erotic prose than just the use of adjectives. It's kind of like saying that blue is the key to great art.
I looked at the two earlier examples of porn you gave: the excerpt from Boota and the other, and the thing that struck me more than adjective use was that Boota concentrated on describing visible, meaningful, erotic action between the characters, while the second example concentrated more on descriptions of static objects and organs. For me at least, a recounting of the act of sex is always going to be more erotic and compelling than the most vivid description of a boob or a vagina.
It's almost a case of showing versus telling again. It's erotic action that I find arousing, and adjectives have a tendency to choke off and derail the action. I wonder if that's what's at work in these two examples, that the second is rendered clumsy and confusing by the overuse of adjectives in a passage that should be devoted to describing action.
---dr.M.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Would love to hear your comments, dr. m., on the last "Christian" excerpt.
Of course no one ever said using few adjective makes good writing. I simply picked what I believe to be a common problem that might be of interest. In BB's analogy, a lotta porn and romance folks use so many nails that the board is seriously weakened.
Thanks for a nice analysis of the issues. I think we agree, in the latter example, that the 'static' quality and the adjective problems are closely related. Again, 'organ' description is a penchant of lotsa amateur porn writers.
J.
//I looked at the two earlier examples of porn you gave: the excerpt from Boota and the other, and the thing that struck me more than adjective use was that Boota concentrated on describing visible, meaningful, erotic action between the characters, while the second example concentrated more on descriptions of static objects and organs. For me at least, a recounting of the act of sex is always going to be more erotic and compelling than the most vivid description of a boob or a vagina.
It's almost a case of showing versus telling again. It's erotic action that I find arousing, and adjectives have a tendency to choke off and derail the action. I wonder if that's what's at work in these two examples, that the second is rendered clumsy and confusing by the overuse of adjectives in a passage that should be devoted to describing action.
//
Of course no one ever said using few adjective makes good writing. I simply picked what I believe to be a common problem that might be of interest. In BB's analogy, a lotta porn and romance folks use so many nails that the board is seriously weakened.
Thanks for a nice analysis of the issues. I think we agree, in the latter example, that the 'static' quality and the adjective problems are closely related. Again, 'organ' description is a penchant of lotsa amateur porn writers.
J.
//I looked at the two earlier examples of porn you gave: the excerpt from Boota and the other, and the thing that struck me more than adjective use was that Boota concentrated on describing visible, meaningful, erotic action between the characters, while the second example concentrated more on descriptions of static objects and organs. For me at least, a recounting of the act of sex is always going to be more erotic and compelling than the most vivid description of a boob or a vagina.
It's almost a case of showing versus telling again. It's erotic action that I find arousing, and adjectives have a tendency to choke off and derail the action. I wonder if that's what's at work in these two examples, that the second is rendered clumsy and confusing by the overuse of adjectives in a passage that should be devoted to describing action.
//
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Boxlicker101
Licker of Boxes
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I'm not sure about good literature, cliches or lack of same or what but consider the following two examples:
He inserted his turgid member into her vagina, which had become quite moist, and repeated the act numerous times. She expressed her appreciation of his action and urged him to continue and to do it well.
There are no cliches in those lines, only two adjectives and one if them is modified by an adverb. There is one other adverb, and neither is an "ly" adverb
OR:
Over and over, he rammed his big, stiff cock into her dripping wet pussy. "Oh, God," she cried, joyously, "that's good. Fuck me. Fuck me good."
This one has at least two cliches (big, stiff cock and dripping wet pussy) and includes the adjectives (big, stiff, wet and good), five adjectives (over, over, dripping which modifies wet, joyously, and good, which should be well)
Which if it was continued for several pages, would be better stroke literature?
He inserted his turgid member into her vagina, which had become quite moist, and repeated the act numerous times. She expressed her appreciation of his action and urged him to continue and to do it well.
There are no cliches in those lines, only two adjectives and one if them is modified by an adverb. There is one other adverb, and neither is an "ly" adverb
OR:
Over and over, he rammed his big, stiff cock into her dripping wet pussy. "Oh, God," she cried, joyously, "that's good. Fuck me. Fuck me good."
This one has at least two cliches (big, stiff cock and dripping wet pussy) and includes the adjectives (big, stiff, wet and good), five adjectives (over, over, dripping which modifies wet, joyously, and good, which should be well)
Which if it was continued for several pages, would be better stroke literature?
Boxlicker101
Licker of Boxes
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Correction. I lost track of what I was doing. Four adjectives and five adverbs, one of them ending in "ly".
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