Adjectives: No, there wasn't 'a hot juicy wet pussy'.

[Hooper_X]

Since every thread picks a problem or issue, it's quite puzzling why folks feel the need keep saying, 'but there are other issues in good writing.' But if it makes ya feel better!

I believe that's called a difference of opinion. Surely dissent is allowed for in a forum, ostensibly, dedicated to the open and free exchange of ideas on the topic of creative erotic writing.

FYI, I agree with you where most other genres of literary fiction are concerned. I'm just of the opinion that erotic/literary porn should be almost visually stimulating in its evocativeness.

 

[Pure]

Hooper, all opinions are welcome, but to keep the discussion above the level of t'is, t'isn't, t'is, t'isn't some examples are helpful. Posters have supplied a number of good ones, some 'good' in illustrating problems.

I'm just of the opinion that erotic/literary porn should be almost visually stimulating in its evocativeness

Please show a good example of this, preferably not by yourself, so that the 'ego' question is left aside.

 

[Hooper_X]

Please show a good example of this...

“The strange, continuous, almost painful tension she felt away from him always dissolved in his presence, at his very door… The trust she felt in his evenly modulated voice, both warm and light, in his harmonious manners never sudden or violent, in his thoughts which he weighed before articulating, in his insights which were moderate, was so great that it resembled a total abandon of her self to him, a total giving.”

There's a rather tame example of what I'd consider to be good imagery. My personal tastes in erotic fiction generally tend toward much more graphic and salacious fare. With regard to erotic literature, I want to be titillated. I want my breath to quicken. I want my nostrils to dialate. I want to luxuriate in my own lust. I want a full-on erection. If I was in the mood to read terse minimalist prose, I'd read Amy Hempel or any of the dozens of contemporary writers inspired by her.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hooper_X said:

There's a rather tame example of what I'd consider to be good imagery. My personal tastes in erotic fiction generally tend toward much more graphic and salacious fare. With regard to erotic literature, I want to be titillated. I want my breath to quicken. I want my nostrils to dialate. I want to luxuriate in my own lust. I want a full-on erection. If I was in the mood to read terse minimalist prose, I'd read Amy Hempel or any of the dozens of contemporary writers inspired by her.

I have to agree with you, Hooper. If there is to be a objective measure of the quality of porn, it would be how soon it gets the readers, male or female, playing with themselves. Or, how wet it gets her panties or how hard it gets his cock. Or how many times people get off reading one story. Most of the feedback I have gotten has been from women telling me how they were busy with their fingers or vibrator while they were reading my stories, or how they went to bed and got off right after reading.

If there is ever a Nobel prize just for porn, they would have to award the prize based on something like that.


http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=118747MySmuttyHolidayStory

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=207952MyOtherSmut

 

[Pure]

Hi Hooper,

As to your example (source?) --quoted in full, below, it's not bad, though I'd find that degree of complexity a hindrance to arousal of lust, a character more cerebral than erotic; George Eliot-ish:

//his evenly modulated voice, both warm and light, in his harmonious manners never sudden or violent,//

I'm not sure why you say 'good imagery', for I don't see much at all. Perhaps you can post an erotic, adjectivally loaded example that you find salacious, etc.


Please have a look at the example, 11-30, mid p. 3 (this thread), of the excerpt from M. Christian. Do you agree with my assessment:

//This example is intended to show a mastery of these words[adjectives], used copiously, in a very powerful scene, which is descriptive, yet over-the-top active at the same time.//

Fairly abundanct adjectives; powerful and erotic. It was posted to show that, given a bit of creativity and freshness, the 'adjectivally inclined' (challenged?) can sometimes produce really good hot stuff.

I appreciate your thoughtful postings.

J.

===

Hooper's example, non erotic:
//“The strange, continuous, almost painful tension she felt away from him always dissolved in his presence, at his very door… The trust she felt in his evenly modulated voice, both warm and light, in his harmonious manners never sudden or violent, in his thoughts which he weighed before articulating, in his insights which were moderate, was so great that it resembled a total abandon of her self to him, a total giving.”//

 

[Hooper_X]

As to your example (source?) --quoted in full, below, it's not bad, though I'd find that degree of complexity a hindrance to arousal of lust, a character more cerebral than erotic;

Oh, the quote was from Anais Nin's "A Spy in the House of Love." And yes, it is actually a work of erotic fiction. I didn't have the book at hand, so I was forced to use an example that I could find on the web.

As to the complexity of descriptions, I feel quite the opposite. As I said before, when I'm reading literary porn, I like to luxuriate in it and in the lust that it engenders in me. If the writing is too sparse and the pace too quick, I'm not allowed that pleasure. As a male, I'm visually oriented. So a detailed description of the heft of a woman's breasts, the size of her nipples, the contrast between breast and areola, or the roundness of her hips and ass do it for me in a big way.

Obviously, there is a fundamental incongruity in what we respectively believe to be the primary duty of erotic literature, as well as what constitutes erotica.

 

[Pure]

Hi Hooper, [excerpt, below]

Sorry about the delay in responding. Since you bring up Anais Nin, I'd point out that in her erotic/pornish prose, she's pretty clearly in the 'lean' or 'sparse' school, to which I aspire.

At the same time, she is evocative, and imagistic, which belies the assertion that these qualities have to do with using lots of adjectives.

You said,

As to the complexity of descriptions, I feel quite the opposite. As I said before, when I'm reading literary porn, I like to luxuriate in it and in the lust that it engenders in me. If the writing is too sparse and the pace too quick, I'm not allowed that pleasure. As a male, I'm visually oriented. So a detailed description of the heft of a woman's breasts, the size of her nipples, the contrast between breast and areola, or the roundness of her hips and ass do it for me in a big way.

Obviously, there is a fundamental incongruity in what we respectively believe to be the primary duty of erotic literature, as well as what constitutes erotica.

If you look at the excerpt it is not, imo, particularly 'visually' oriented, as far as getting into such male pre occupations as nipple size, areola coloring, etc. Most of the sentences are not complex, but occasionally there is a long flowing one.

Note the absence of what Box viewed as key, the 'big, hard, stiff prick.' {{Correction 12/13: Box likes simply 'big stiff cock.'}}

As to our alleged fundamental 'incongruity' or disagreement, I don't know. I like the passage below, and find it hot. If you agree, then we aren't so different as you suppose.

J.
Excerpt:


Comments. About 19 descriptive** adjectives, marked with *, of 620 words. About 3%; other passages in the 3-6% range. (Note some paras. without adjectives at all!) About one half follow the noun. Mostly not applied to sexual parts. 'Descriptive' is meant to include all adjectives that appeal to the senses or imagination.
{{**Added 12/13: "Descriptive" EXcludes articles, possessive adjs, demonstrative adjs, numbers [though I have included 'many']; IOW I include those adjectives beloved of writers trying to 'paint a picture.'}}

"Elena" in Delta of Venus [1977; paperback, Bantam, 1978], p 97, by Anais Nin

[verbatim excerpt]
Then he kissed her, his two hands on her breasts. She felt his teeth. He kissed her neck where the veins were palpitating, and her throat, his hands around her neck as if he would separate her head from the rest of her body. She swayed with desire to be taken wholly. As he kissed her, he undressed her. The clothes fell around her and they were still standing together kissing. Then without looking at her he carried her to the bed with his mouth still on her face and throat and hair.

His caresses had a *strange quality, at times *soft and *melting, at other times, *fierce, like the caresses she had expected when his eyes fixed on her, the caresses of a *wild animal. There was something *animallike about his hands, which he kept spread over each part of her body, and which took her sex and hair together as if he would tear them away from the body, as if he grasped earth and grass together.

When she closed her eyes she felt he had *many hands, which touched her everywhere, and *many mouths, which passed so swiftly over her, and with a wolflike* sharpness, his teeth sank into her *fleshiest parts. Naked now, he lay his *full length over her. She enjoyed his weight on her, enjoyed being crushed under his body. She wanted him soldered to her, from mouth to feet. Shivers passed through her body.

He whispered now and then, telling her to raise her legs, as she had never done, until the knees touched her chin; he whispered to her to turn, and he spread her backside with his two hands. He rested inside of her, lay back and waited.

Then she withdrew, half sat up, her hair *wild and her eyes *drugged, and through a half mist saw him lying on his back. She slipped down in the bed until her mouth reached his penis. She began kissing all around it. He sighed. The penis shook slightly at each kiss. He was looking at her. His hand was on her head and he pressed it downwards so her mouth would fall over the penis. His hand remained on her as she moved up and down and then fell, fell with a sigh of *unbearable pleasure, fell on his belly and lay there, with eyes closed, tasting her joy.

She could not look at him as he looked at her. Her eyes were blurred by the violence of her feeling. When she looked at him she was magnetically drawn again to touch his flesh, with her mouth or hands, or with her *whole body. She rubbed her *whole body against his, with *animal luxuriance, enjoying the friction.

Then she fell on her side and lay there, touching his mouth as if she were molding it over and over again, like a *blind person who wants to discover the shape of the mouth, of the eyes, of the nose, to ascertain his form, the feel of his skin, the length and texture of his hair, the shape of the hair behind his ears. Her fingers were *light as she did this, then suddenly they would become *frenzied, press deep into the flesh and hurt him, as if violently to assure her of his reality. […]


How the honey flowed from her. He dipped his fingers in it lingeringly, then his sex, then he moved her so that she lay on him, her legs thrown over his legs and as he took her, he could see himself entering into her and she could see him too. They saw their bodies undulate together, seeking their climax. He was waiting for her, watching her movements. [end excerpt]

 

[Boxlicker101]

Note the absence of what Box viewed as key, the 'big, hard, stiff prick.'

Pure, you are extremely misquoting me. In none of my stories or posts have I ever referred to a "big, hard, stiff prick". First, I would never include the reundant "hard" if I include "stiff". Second, I would say "cock", not "prick".

I counted 51 adjectives in the passage, including articles, which are adjectives, but not including all the possessive pronouns that are being used as modifiers and not counting the adjectival propositional phrases. I added * after the adjectives that you had not marked.

Personally, I thought the sentences were too short and choppy and there were too many pronouns, especially used as subjects of sentences, but that is strictly an inexpert opinion.


[verbatim excerpt]
Then he kissed her, his two* hands on her breasts. She felt his teeth. He kissed her neck where the* veins were palpitating, and her throat, his hands around her neck as if he would separate her head from the* rest of her body. She swayed with desire to be taken wholly. As he kissed her, he undressed her. The* clothes fell around her and they were still standing together kissing. Then without looking at her he carried her to the* bed with his mouth still on her face and throat and hair.



His caresses had a* *strange quality, at times *soft and *melting, at other times, *fierce, like the* caresses she had expected when his eyes fixed on her, the* caresses of a* *wild animal. There was something *animallike about his hands, which he kept spread over each* part of her body, and which took her sex and hair together as if he would tear them away from the* body, as if he grasped earth and grass together.

When she closed her eyes she felt he had *many hands, which touched her everywhere, and *many mouths, which passed so swiftly over her, and with a* wolflike* sharpness, his teeth sank into her *fleshiest parts. Naked* now, he lay his *full length over her. She enjoyed his weight on her, enjoyed being crushed under his body. She wanted him soldered* to her, from mouth to feet. Shivers passed through her body.

He whispered now and then, telling her to raise her legs, as she had never done, until the* knees touched her chin; he whispered to her to turn, and he spread her backside with his two* hands. He rested inside of her, lay back and waited.

Then she withdrew, half sat up, her hair *wild and her eyes *drugged, and through a* half* mist saw him lying on his back. She slipped down in the bed until her mouth reached his penis. She began kissing all around it. He sighed. The penis shook slightly at each* kiss. He was looking at her. His hand was on her head and he pressed it downwards so her mouth would fall over the* penis. His hand remained on her as she moved up and down and then fell, fell with a sigh of *unbearable pleasure, fell on his belly and lay there, with eyes closed*, tasting her joy.

She could not look at him as he looked at her. Her eyes were blurred by the* violence of her feeling. When she looked at him she was magnetically drawn again to touch his flesh, with her mouth or hands, or with her *whole body. She rubbed her *whole body against his, with *animal luxuriance, enjoying the* friction.

Then she fell on her side and lay there, touching his mouth as if she were molding it over and over again, like a* *blind person who wants to discover the* shape of the* mouth, of the* eyes, of the* nose, to ascertain his form, the* feel of his skin, the* length and texture of his hair, the shape of the* hair behind his ears. Her fingers were *light as she did this, then suddenly they would become *frenzied, press deep into the* flesh and hurt him, as if violently to assure her of his reality. […]

 

[Pure]

Hi Box,

I said,

Pure: "Note the absence of what Box viewed as key, the 'big, hard, stiff prick.' "

Box replied,
Pure, you are extremely misquoting me. In none of my stories or posts have I ever referred to a "big, hard, stiff prick". First, I would never include the reundant "hard" if I include "stiff". Second, I would say "cock", not "prick".
----

I was quoting from memory, and was not exact. But the gist is correct. You said,

I also think that "her juicy pussy" will produce better results than "her pussy".

I think I would rather read or write: "Susan took my flaccid cock into her wet mouth, and after a few seconds, her skillful tongue had it fully erect." Five adjectives and one adverb. [...]

I realize writers should avoid cliches like the plague but combinations like "big, stiff cock", "juicy pussy", "erect nipples", "engorged clit", and many others get the job done and evoke certain thoughts in the reader, so why not use them,

===
Well, Box, there is a lack, in Nin, of purplish techniques, such as, the double adjective preceding, as in 'big stiff cock.'

No sentences read at all like your execrable example (bolded, above) . The stale descriptions you cite and love, 'juicy pussy' etc. do not appear. As I said, and a few other have noted, the sexual parts are often best left 'bare', as Nin does.

You are very good at counting and marking articles! It seems you found about 30 of them in Nin's passage. Is this of any relevance to any point you're trying to make?

Let's examine the most adjective-heavy sentence in the Nin passage:

His caresses had a *strange quality, at times *soft and *melting, at other times, *fierce, like the caresses she had expected when his eyes fixed on her, the caresses of a *wild animal.

It is as different from your example or prose as a fine steak is to a stale pudding. For one thing, adjs. are not attached to cocks pussies etc., and for another, they often follow the nouns, making the sentence sinuous and fresh as opposed to (your example) leaden and predictable.

Just so's you don't feel the example is unfair, I'll use an example from your writing, which you've been posting a lot of:

"I call on Lotchie" by boxlicker101

http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=103343


One arm supported the weight of her upper body and her other hand was cupped under one of her gorgeous globes, presenting its erect dark brown nipple to me. I licked it with broad strokes of my tongue because Lotchie's nipples are big and sensitive, and I wanted to pleasure my whole tongue, as well as pleasuring her. She let me lick one of her adorable nipples for a while and then she presented the other one to me for our mutual enjoyment. Lotchie was purring happily as she held her lovely mounds for me to lick, changing from one to the other and back and then she moved in closer and said "Oooo, George. Suck my boobies."

As I opened my mouth, Lotchie pushed one of them in, and I closed my lips on her luscious globe and started sucking on it. My lips formed a seal on the soft, brown skin below the nipple and, as I sucked on the lovely mammary, my tongue caressed its erect nipple. Lotchie was purring loudly, her breathing was ragged and she had closed her eyes to savor the pleasure of my mouth on her lovely titties.
-------

Comments, my purely personal take on things: about 19 descriptive adjectives, in 196 words. 10%, or about double, the Nin passage. (Several articles, if that's of any relevance!) The *quality of them is also particularly dubious.

The woman is Black, but we have, 'erect dark brown nipple' and 'soft brown skin'. Not surprising.

'erect nipple' re-appears in the second para, in case we missed it.

Particularly stale is the phrase 'big and sensitive', which is piled onto 'erect, dark brown...' in the following sentence.

'Globes', in my opinion, is mannered, and the noun choice generally is routine porn. The habit of complimentary adjectives is taken past the 'kak' point as in 'luscious globes' and, in case we missed them, 'gorgeous globes.'

The author's implicit tributes to himself as pleasure machine are particularly off-putting to this reader. It's best put in the 'Personals.'

'Lovely mound' 'lovely mammary' reflect the author's proud and rampant laziness in adjective choice.

You have intelligence and literacy and mastery of mechanics, but your effort is slack: The paras, IMO, could not succeed well in an upper secondary-school setting--but will obviously succeed with a certain porn audience, given the relative polish and mutual complimenting of author, reader and characters.

Just my idiosyncratic and curmudgeonly views, for what they're worth.

J.
----

A thought for authors:

"...writers should avoid cliches like the plague."

--boxlicker101

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hi, Pure.

To answer your question, I counted the adjectives in the passage because you had said there were about 19 and I counted 51. I did so after you so egregiously misquoted me.

Personally, the Nin passage did nothing for me. A certain magazine I have occasionally read, not Playboy, but a similar one, has or had a section where porn movies were reviewed. They were rated on a scale of one to five and to be more graphic, they use something called a "peter meter" A rating of five is illustrated by a fully erect penis and a rating of one is illustrated by a fully flaccid one. I want all my stories to rate a five on the peter meter, and I have no objection to using purplish prose to do so. I would probably rate the Nin passage between one and two, rounding up to two. I thought the sentences were frequently short and choppy and she used at least four similies in this passage. That might not be too many here but over a whole story it would be a distraction. It seemed she was always saying "as if" or "like".

Actually, I would rather rate a five on the "pussy meter", with a five being a gushing vulva and a one being dry. You may not believe this, but I have always tried to write for women more than for men. If you read my stories, you will see that they always portray the women deriving great pleasure from the sex acts, with the men also enjoying them. The narrator is never portrayed as any kind of super stud but he is portrayed as a giver of pleasure through technique and through doing what the women want.

Out of curiosity, did you choose Lotchie at random? I describe her as Black, which is her race, not an adjective, because that is how she described herself, rather than African-American. Lotchie is a real person, although the story is fiction and we have never met. I wrote the story for her, using her name and description and a description of what she likes. When she e-mailed back to me, she told me how much she loved it, and had gotten off on it. Most of my stories were written on the same basis, for a specific woman. The two stories about Karen were written for the same person and she still tells me how much she likes them.

I am in the procerss of doing some editing on the stories already submitted and when I get to Lotchie, I will delete the second "erect" and the second "lovely". I will also take your advice and start sometimes following nouns with their modifiers, such as: "I took her clit, fully engorged, into my mouth and sucked on it, while caressing it with my tongue." I believe the stories will flow better doing this. The sentence you so abhor does not actually appear in any story but if it does it will read something like "She took my cock, flaccid at first, into her mouth and in a few seconds, her talented tounge had it fully erect." I still intend to use a lot of adjectives though. That will not change.

What do you mean when you say "'Globes', in my opinion, is mannered"? I refer to "breasts" when I am describing a woman but not when they are involved in sex play, and I try to use a variety of other words. In this, I also used "globes" too often and that will be changed by editing.

I'm not sure of the difference between erotica and porn but if my stories are described as one or the other, they are porn. On my URLs, I refer to them as smut.


http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=118747MySmuttyHolidayStory

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=207952MyOtherSmut

 

[Hooper_X]

Hi Hooper, [excerpt, below]...
Then he kissed her, his two hands on her breasts. She felt his teeth. He kissed her neck where the veins were palpitating, and her throat, his hands around her neck as if he would separate her head from the rest of her body. She swayed with desire to be taken wholly. As he kissed her, he undressed her. The clothes fell around her and they were still standing together kissing. Then without looking at her he carried her to the bed with his mouth still on her face and throat and hair....

I chose an Anais Nin quote because; the passage was descriptive and made liberal use of adjectives, Anais Nin was the first author that popped into my mind, and I was relatively sure that her take on erotica wouldn't offend the sensibilities of a woman.

As to the "verbatim excerpt," as a sexual interlude in a piece of general fiction, it is an appropriately paced superior piece of writing. Considered as literary porn, it is too laconic. Again, I think this speaks to that fundamental incongruity that I mentioned, but that excerpt would fail to sexually arouse me.

It is an erotic diminution, all too vivace e staccato. There are certain fleeting moments in the context of an erotic story that I, as the reader, want to absorb over a longer period of time. I want to mentally experience, for instance the moment of two lovers' coupling, with all five senses. I want to see it in my mind's eye. I want to smell her musk. I want to know everything. And, I want to be able to wallow in that abstracted experience at a adagio legato pace, whilst I onanistically (is that a real word?) abuse myself.

To continue beating the musical metaphor over the head, I want the graceful crescendo and subtly iterated themes of Ravel's Bolero. I do not want the hallowed out frenetic discords of Thelonious Monk's minimalist jazz.

(I actually love Thelonious Monk. His stuff is just not, IMO, conducive to love making or monkey spanking)

 

[Pure]

Hi Hooper, nice posting.

We're on the same side, here, right? Towards the improvement of porn and erotica, which entails good writing, besides promoting whack jobs in the 20 ish male crowd.

You said,
As to the "verbatim excerpt," as a sexual interlude in a piece of general fiction, it is an appropriately paced superior piece of writing. Considered as literary porn, it is too laconic.

From the end matter of _Delta of Venus_, a work of some 250 pp.

"In 1940, in acute need of money, she wrote erotica at a dollar a page for a book collector, who had first approached her good friend Henry Miller."

'Delta' is far from 'a piece of general fiction,' and is replete with episodes as I have reproduced, though there is some attention to character and feeling. We presume the fellow commisioning the works was pleased and gratified.

From the front matter of the book,

"Begun, as Nin writes in Diary III, 'tongue in cheek,' the stories that Nin then thought were 'exaggerated' and 'caricaturing sexuality' can be read as original contributions to a slowly emerging American tradition of literary erotica writing. They are, furthermore, the first American stories by a woman to celebrate sexuality with complete and open abandonment."

Harriet Zinnes, _New York Times Book Review_

Tastes in literary porn may differ, of course, Hooper. But that's what it was. Times change. I'd prefer, for instance, more details of female sexual response, though that is best NOT accomplished by writing 'purple prose' overrun with stale adjectives.

J.

PS. The issue is not Bach versus Ravel, but Montevani and Donny Osmond versus the both of them. Not Horowitz versus Oscar Peterson, but Richard Clayderman versus the both.
======


HooperX said,

As to the "verbatim excerpt," as a sexual interlude in a piece of general fiction, it is an appropriately paced superior piece of writing. Considered as literary porn, it is too laconic. Again, I think this speaks to that fundamental incongruity that I mentioned, but that excerpt would fail to sexually arouse me.

It is an erotic diminution, all too vivace e staccato. There are certain fleeting moments in the context of an erotic story that I, as the reader, want to absorb over a longer period of time. I want to mentally experience, for instance the moment of two lovers' coupling, with all five senses. I want to see it in my mind's eye. I want to smell her musk. I want to know everything. And, I want to be able to wallow in that abstracted experience at a adagio legato pace, whilst I onanistically (is that a real word?) abuse myself.

To continue beating the musical metaphor over the head, I want the graceful crescendo and subtly iterated themes of Ravel's Bolero. I do not want the hallowed out frenetic discords of Thelonious Monk's minimalist jazz.

(I actually love Thelonious Monk. His stuff is just not, IMO, conducive to love making or monkey spanking)

 

[Hooper_X]

We're on the same side, here, right? Towards the improvement of porn and erotica, which entails good writing, besides promoting whack jobs in the 20 ish male crowd.

I'm all for the improvement of porn. We seem to disagree on what constitutes an improvement. Also, I think the percentage of readers of erotica fiction for whom it is primarily a masturbatory enhancement encompasses a much broader range of humanity than 20-something males.

I agree that many hack writers of literary porn take an object-oriented approach to their use and re-use of the same string of multiple adjectives qualifying a single noun. However, I'm not not in favor of abandoning discriptive language altogether in favor of a steady stream of short choppy sentences.

 

[Pure]

Hi Hooper,

I appreciate your thoughtful postings. But you've got me a bit confused about what's going on and where you stand. You began with the assertion

//I'm just of the opinion that erotic/literary porn should be almost visually stimulating in its evocativeness//


You produced a sentence by Anais Nin as an example. I then posted a fairly typical passage, from this author you'd chosen, and I get from you that it's too 'laconic', 'staccato', and without arousal value.

More lately you add:

// ...I'm not in favor of abandoning discriptive language altogether in favor of a steady stream of short choppy sentences. //

Of course that's not what was on the table: No one ever proposed a stream of short choppy sentences as a general style, and the passage doesn't match that description. Again, sticking to Nin, while there are short choppy ones, I would not characterize the passage generally as 'staccato'; there are beautiful sinuous sentences (below) at key points, suggesting the writer's ability to modulate style according to feeling and pace.

[Nin:]There was something *animallike about his hands, which he kept spread over each part of her body, and which took her sex and hair together as if he would tear them away from the body, as if he grasped earth and grass together.

Then she fell on her side and lay there, touching his mouth as if she were molding it over and over again, like a *blind person who wants to discover the shape of the mouth, of the eyes, of the nose, to ascertain his form, the feel of his skin, the length and texture of his hair, the shape of the hair behind his ears.

Another point of I've been trying to make, unsuccessfully, for a while, is that 'descriptive', which you want, is not necessarily connected with using lots of adjectives, even well chosen ones. The sentences just above are almost free of descriptive adjectives.

Further, they are quite rich in simile and imagery. I'm impressed with 'as if he grasped earth and grass together' to invoke vulva and pubic hair.

I think the quality you described, is there: ( Don't you?)
[writing] visually stimulating in its evocativeness

It's unfortunate many people, I think from HS English, think of description--conveying an impression of something as it impinges on the senses and imagination and feeling-- as a process of applying modifiers: 'what kind of lake is it?' 'a deep dark still and mysterious lake.'

Let's look at a sentence and consider the alternative:

[Nin]as if she were molding it over and over again, like a *blind person who wants to discover the shape of the mouth, of the eyes...

compare, "she was molding it inquisitively, carefully and exploratively. She sensuously touched his soft, full mouth and his deep-set, coal-dark eyes." (my wording, Pure)

(answering the teacher's question: how did she mold it? what was his mouth and eyes like?)

The first, the Nin, is evocative; that goes deeper, in a way than any finite description.

Perhaps, to further discussion you can post an example you're willing to stand behind, as rich, descriptive, and well endowed with adjectives (I have done so already in the passage by Christian.)

 

[Hooper_X]

You produced a sentence by Anais Nin as an example. I then posted a fairly typical passage, from this author you'd chosen, and I get from you that it's too 'laconic', 'staccato', and without arousal value.

As I've already explained, I quoted the first example, making liberal use of adjectives, that I found. I chose Nin because I was relatively sure that a woman wouldn't dare impugn her literary mastery.

The passage that you posted was, IMO, exactly as I described it. It was excellent viewed as general fiction. In terms of literary porn it struck me as a technically perfect but arid and choppy.

The long and the short of it is, I am a logophile. I like imaginative use of language in descriptive writing using all manner of literary devices; analogies, allegories, similes, metaphors, et al.

I'm simply not a fan of declarative documentary-style erotic ficition, that reads as if it was written by committee in a 1980's kmart-minimalist creative writing work shop.

Again, this applies only to literary porn. That threadbare style lends itself to general fiction that aims to be adapted to film.

 

[Pure]

OK, Hooper, here's an example for your comment, as a logophile.

Note the second last sentence, "I felt my breathing.." I rather like it (I have nothing against long sentences, per se). It has 108 words; about 8 descriptive adjectives. Its construction (syntax) is masterful, imo. Five independent clauses (I think) that push the pace of the narrative.



From “Fish Curry Rice” by Ginu Kamani, in Bright, _Best American Erotica 2000_

[verbatim]
Ramesh had left his bed tidy and turned on the fan to keep out flies. There was still much left to be said between Nemo and myself, but the dialogue now would be wordless. He sat on the mattress with his back against the wall and I sat on his lab with his hands under my clothes. With shirts unbuttoned, our erect nipples prodded each other’s skin, sizzling like hot coals on ice. Like the slowpoke game of childhood where each contestant ‘raced’ to be the last one to the finish line, I set the pace for the slowest, most unhurried arousal.

I swept my tongue across his nipples, and they wrinkled and reddened. I struck them again and again until they were purple and bulging…..

Nemo’s hungry gaze was thrilling. Not since childhood had I felt comfortable enough to drown in the gaze of an Indian man; not since viewing those openshirted sardonic actors whose posters use to line my walls. Searing eyes, fleshy pink mouths, chest thrown back with the promise of unending embrace. But this was no movie star in bed with me. I felt more and more like I was making love to a beloved companion. We must have met as children and perhaps even snuck an embrace or two in a dark corner.

Nemo curled his legs around my back and rolled me over. Finding my armpits unshaven, he rubbed his nose in the soft tangles. The thousand vagina eyes coalesced into the throbbing recesses under my arms and between my legs, and soon we were wrestling on the bed. The drops of his musk scent spread slickly over me as we stroked together in the hot afternoon breeze. I spread apart his lips to get a look at his tongue. Out it came, dangling over me like the hood of a cobra. I grabbed at it with my teeth, but he moved down, winding and coiling his tongue around and between my thighs, the slow full burn of a heated rope climbing inside me, opening me wider and wider.

My thighs stretched to their limits and I tucked my feet under his chest as my legs began to tremble. His tongue braved the currents like a homing salmon climbing the steep rapids of my desire. I felt my breathing begin to stall, felt the rush of blood humming in my ears, hear my mind command, “Inhale!’ but the tongue hammering out a Morse code on my aching stretching skin signaled a different demand, and there was no breath to had because my nose and lungs and mouth and arms had all rushed down and were pushing up from under his tongue, pushing up to a molten iceberg of immense proportions through the tightening mesh of his strokes and like snow yielding to water, his pressing tongue melted into the tunneling wave of my heat, which finally erupted through the roof of his mouth. My screams shot through the ceiling and down the shuddering walls, scattering into the skyscrapers of Bombay. [end excerpt]