Adjectives: No, there wasn't 'a hot juicy wet pussy'.

[Rumple Foreskin]

He inserted his turgid member into her vagina, which had become quite moist, and repeated the act numerous times. She expressed her appreciation of his action and urged him to continue and to do it well.

Boxlicker,

You really know how to get a guy's blood boiling; not to mention his member turgid.

Now about the second exapmple: "Over and over, he rammed his big, stiff cock into her dripping wet pussy. "Oh, God," she cried, joyously, "that's good. Fuck me. Fuck me good.""

Obviously, that's a tad more stimulating. However and IMHO, there are too many adjectives. The double adjectives "big, stiff" and "dripping wet" are overkill and slow the pace. The same is true of "cried joyously."

Of course, the last time I checked, the Nobel folks still hadn't gotten around to giving me their prize for literature-so what the hell do I know?

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Pure]

Hi Box,

This seems to be a thread attracting tangents, in particular refutations of positions, not mine, such as: few adjectives makes good prose; abundant adjectives make bad prose; the adjective issue is the one crucial issue in determining whether something is good prose; only number of adjectives matters, not choice.

However, the examples I've given have been in support of claims like: inexperienced writers often 'overuse' adjectives and adverbs; their writing could be improved by pruning them to some degree; a spare or lean style, preferred by many modern writers, lives through its verbs and nouns; description, whether of landscape or genital can often be well accomplished with minimal adjectives. The issue of 'freshness' of adjectives has been raised as important, one of the 'qualitative' issues-- and there are such-- beyond the quantitative ones.

I don't personally want to debate such points in the abstract or deal with invented counterexamples to positions I don't hold.

I don't like either example, Box, nor agree that the second has stroke value in virtue of its (crappy) adjectives. Imo, you can't make good porn, for the over 14 crowd, by piling on cliched adjective to the words 'cock' and 'pussy.'

On a more positive note, if you'd care to contribute an example of a very well written passage and relate it to the issues of this thread, I'd be delighted.

Others may feel free to debate; it's a public thread.

J.

Box said,
I'm not sure about good literature, cliches or lack of same or what but consider the following two examples:

He inserted his turgid member into her vagina, which had become quite moist, and repeated the act numerous times. She expressed her appreciation of his action and urged him to continue and to do it well.

There are no cliches in those lines, only two adjectives and one if them is modified by an adverb. There is one other adverb, and neither is an "ly" adverb

OR:
Over and over, he rammed his big, stiff cock into her dripping wet pussy. "Oh, God," she cried, joyously, "that's good. Fuck me. Fuck me good."

This one has at least two cliches (big, stiff cock and dripping wet pussy) and includes the adjectives (big, stiff, wet and good), five adjectives (over, over, dripping which modifies wet, joyously, and good, which should be well)

Which if it was continued for several pages, would be better stroke literature?

 

[Boxlicker101]

From GAYLE MASSAGES ME by Boxlicker101

This is a passage from the 12th story I submitted. In the previous paragraph, Gayle had taken the tip of my cock into her pussy.

"Lubricating juices were running down my stiff cock from Gayle's pussy and soaking into my trimmed pubic hair. Slowly, she lowered herself onto me and my cock slid easily the rest of the way into her tight but slippery pussy. I was not wearing a condom but that was no problem because I knew that this was just foreplay. Gayle likes to tease. A few quick strokes and I could have ejaculated but I refrained from doing so, knowing the much greater pleasure in store for both of us if I waited. For about three minutes, she stayed like that, smiling but unmoving except for a few twitches. Even the twiches caused my cock to throb more. My pubic hair was soaked from all the pussy juices and I regretted the loss of what I knew would have been a delicious treat.

Gayle knew it too. She lifted herself off me and her pussy pulled free of my cock with a slurping sound. More juices dripped down from her pussy, bathed my cock and ran down my crotch. Gayle bent over my cock, held onto the base of it with her thumb and forefinger and started licking her juices off me. Like a child with the cake mixing spoon, she licked the shaft, the head, and under the ridge until she had swallowed all her juices that were available.

I have a lot of adjectives in this passage and two adverbs ending in "ly". I am also using one simile and some prepositional phrase. There is no dialogue because my stories, unless they are about role playing, are more action oriented than dialogue driven.

 

[Pure]

Thanks Box. Do give examples from other's writing too.

There are clearly problems in the passage, which I shall leave to the sharp critics. And they are not to do with adjectives.

Yet I would point out that one of the most clangy sentences, inho, is the one where you most piled on the adjectives and adverbs, accounting for a large share of those in the entire passage.

//Slowly, she lowered herself onto me and my cock slid easily the rest of the way into her tight but slippery pussy.//

J.

 

[Pure]

OK, Box, here's a comment (and thanks for your contribution):

A few quick strokes and I could have ejaculated but I refrained from doing so, knowing the much greater pleasure in store for both of us if I waited. For about three minutes, she stayed like that, smiling but unmoving except for a few twitches. Even the twiches caused my cock to throb more. My pubic hair was soaked from all the pussy juices and I regretted the loss of what I knew would have been a delicious treat.

It has a 'flat' quality, whose cause I can't quite pin down. The language is a bit stilted, "I refrained from doing so." Like a well educated member of the House of Lords reflecting back on his youth during a BBC interview.

"loss of what I knew would have been a delicious treat."

I have a peasant's mind, I'm sure, but what's wrong with
"I regretted I wouldn't be getting a delicious treat." or "I regretted the loss of a treat." The effect is to weaken the impact on the reader.

As near as I can say, the verb choices are rather formal, and the style and tone are like that of a surgeon recounting the moves he made during yesterday's operation on a heart valve.

My opinion? You have writing skill and high literacy, but you're trying too hard to write hot porn by mentioning lots of details --- a very common thing, I've noticed. The style, tone, pacing, register etc. appear not to have been considered. You wrote it the way you'd write an accident report for an insurance company: formal, cool, and precise.

J.

 

[whispering_surrender]

I was just wondering what your author name is Pure. You have shown several examples of other's writing as not what you like, or believe is correct. And some I may agree with, and some I might not. But, I would be very interested in seeing some of your work.

Whisper

 

[raphy]

Can't see that happening, Whisper - Pure's really only very good at making disparaging comments towards others - But it's all in the good name of discussion, so it's okay.

 

[gauchecritic]

I was just wondering what your author name is Pure. You have shown several examples of other's writing as not what you like, or believe is correct. And some I may agree with, and some I might not. But, I would be very interested in seeing some of your work.

Whisper

I've asked this question a number of times Whisper and never had it answered.

Seems that Peur is a pure critic.

Gauchecritic

 

[dr_mabeuse]

There's nothing wrong with Pure's being purely a literary critic (unless you're the one being criticized, I suppose). I happen to think that Pure is probably barking up the wrong tree in concentrating on adjective use, but I personally find this kind of close analysis of writing style to be extremely interesting and challenging. Just what is it that makes one piece of prose go down like fine wine while another sticks in the throat like cheap whiskey? Maybe it's adjective use, maybe it's concentrating on description rather than action, maybe it's something else, but it's a subject we should all be interested in. I always thought that this was exactly what the Authors' Hangout was all about: trying to find out why some writing is good and some isn't.
==================

A few quick strokes and I could have ejaculated but I refrained from doing so, knowing the much greater pleasure in store for both of us if I waited. For about three minutes, she stayed like that, smiling but unmoving except for a few twitches. Even the twiches caused my cock to throb more. My pubic hair was soaked from all the pussy juices and I regretted the loss of what I knew would have been a delicious treat.

I don't know if this is a fair example of hot writing, because it describes a static situation in which the primary 'action' is internal sensation. (I also have to say that 3 minutes is an awfully long time for someone to stand still while making love, and violates my own personal prohibition over describing things quantitaively rather than qualitatively [that's the trouble with cup-size and penis-length too, BTW: quantity over quality] though I understand the author's intention is to indicate an unusually long time of pause.)

The whole question of effective erotic prose comes down to the rather large qustion of: what is the essence of written erotica? Is it a description of action, of sensation and thought? Are we painting a picture or telling a story? How important is word choice (is thrust okay, or should it me push or maybe shove?) and sound, the rhythm and sensuality of the language? Which is more erotic: being subjective or objective about what's happening? How much detail should we provide and how much should we leave to the reader?

When I write, I don't write as a critic. I don't have some theoretical concept in my head that tells me to use a lot of adverbs, say, or not use them at all. I put down what seems right to me at the time; what strikes me as being sexy. But I still believe that you can go back over a piece of writing and pick it apart to see where it works and where it doesn't, and I realize that I have some basic guidelines or proclivities when I write, and I guess these kind of form my own working theory of porn.

I try to describe the action is such a way as it paints a picture in the reader's mind. I want the reader to see the same picture I do, and that picture usually involves action ratrher than static situations or descriptions. The essence of porn to me is what's going on in the character's heads. The action is really only a device to manifest what they're thinking and feeling. The sexiest stuff, to me, is always mental and emotional.

So most of what I put into a scene are the kinds of things that show what the characters are thinking and feeling. A kiss is only erotic when you describe it in such a way that the reader can feel what it means: otherwise the characters are just mashing lissues. Are they teasing? Fighting for dominance? Or just wallowing in this wonderful piggish pleasure of another's lips against theirs? I'll try to choose my verbs and modifiers, set my rhthyms and assonances in such a way as to convey both the sensation of the kiss and its meanings. I don't want to stop in the middle of the kiss and have to turn around and blankly tell the reader, "She's really aroused and wants to go further but she's afraid to trust him and needs to be coaxed a little more." I want that to come across in the way I describe the kiss.

There's a place for description, but I find the description usually says something about the character's feelings or inner states. The fact that the guy's pubic hair is soaked in the excerpt above is sexy because it tells us how shamefelly aroused his partner is. She may not be moving beneath him just yet, but she's so excited that she's leaking all over him. No doubt she's terribly embarrassed about this, or maybe she's past caring. But this kind of description tells us that no matter what she's showing on the outside, inside she's hotter than hell. (Playing with shame and embarrassment is always hot in my book: the point where someone's body betrays them...)

I think a lot of the issue with adjectives is that too often they're gratuitious, superfluous, and chliched. It's too easy to fall into this rut of having a preconceived notion of what "erotic prose" should shound like, where every cock is hot and throbbing, every pussy is wet and dripping. It's just laziness; a failure to stop and think about what you want to say and how you want to say it.

But this is the kind of writer I am and it's what seems to work for me. I'm not very erotically inventive in terms of situations and poisitions or relationships between lovers, and I'm not very good at constructing inherently interesting plots. I'm more interested in the mental and emotional experiences of the protagonists, so that's what I tend to concentrate on.

---dr.M.

 

[shereads]

Yes indeed. What he said.

 

[shereads]

I don't know diddly about writing about diddling, but I read a lot of it and I agree with something Dr. M and another poster said earlier:

I love the build-up from milder, more mainstream terminology for the, um, private parts, to flat-out nasty ones as the tension builds to the climactic moment. Isn't that the way it often works in real life, at least for women - we don't "talk dirty" until we are so into the moment that we begin to lose control.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

This passage is for the adjective lovers and advocates; your views have been heard.

J.

So let's look into it.

This example is intended to show a mastery of these words, used copiously, in a very powerful scene, which is descriptive, yet over-the-top active at the same time. Question: What makes the abundant adjectives work? Is it because lots of them follow the nouns? Side note: There is a complete absence of ly adverbs. What is achieved in that way?


M Christian, Intercore, in Best American Erotica, 1994, ed. Bright.

[The male, a photographer, is meeting {screenname} bytebitch—after lots of cyber contacts--on a deserted street and she's been posing on the abandoned carcass of a car. He has a direct-to-CD digital camera. She's shown and tortured her breasts a bit, and now completely opens her black raincoat. ]

[direct quote]
Snap, snap, snap, snap.

No underwear. Bare crease, cleft of a smooth, polished cunt. No stubble—industrial shaving for her. She was wet, and she shone and gleamed in the streetlight's hard arc stare. Her cleft was a reflective streak between a soft, valentine mons. She leaned back on the fender and rubbed a palm against her cunt, pressing hard and up, touching palm to clit. A rough, ham-handed masturbation. One foot anchored and she hoisted herself up onto the remains of the headlight mount. Braced, she spread her legs, one booted foot on either side of the car…Legs spread, she cupped her cunt with one black-nailed hand.

I taped, I taped, I taped. Black like a beetle's back, those polished fingers went around the red bead of a hard, hard clit, then up inside [byte]bitch's cunt. Back and forth, back and forth, a liquid action, repetitive and slow. I taped and taped as her hand got wetter and wetter.

Beautiful shot, her hand, her wrists, her arms reflecting the shine of the streetlight, wet from her juice.

bytebitch, pushed off, turned, and I caught it all. She whipped around, black raincoat flying, wrapping itself around her. Her ass walked backward, toward me. Her legs, pale and white---boots scuffed, looking like little black cats playing in the junk. She moaned, like a deep-throated kitten getting a barbed dick. The raincoat flipped up and over her.

Bare and perfect, her ass was full and round, and with her legs spread everything was there for the cold night and the colder lens of my camera: twin cheeks curving up and down and around to a pair of velvet, wet cunt lips. The glow was real and wet under the hard light, her lips were parted, churning with her rough jerking off. Three? Four? Was her hand in there? Fisting herself in the harsh light? I saw and taped her lips squirm and bubble with pussy juice. Her moans became hard and quick, forced and stubborn. She grunted while jerking off, deep masculine sounds. …

I focused and watched. Focused and watched, precise cross hairs on the wide wet cunt, foamed and slick from her juice. Thighs shimmering, clit—a perfect shot—a red marble when she pulled back her pointed collection of black fingertips. I taped, numbers flowing….

[end quote]

I don't know if this works at all. For me it leaves me cold. The adjectives used don't seem to be doing much to describe what is there, they don't paint a picture for me as the reader to relate to. While the author uses a lot of adjectives they aren't... focused on giving me an insight into what he is seeing. The entire passage seems... detached from the world around it. Perhaps it is an excellent example of show don't tell, but for me it seems a great deal was written here about a scene that should be intrinsically erotic and comes off as clinical and cold for lack of a better word.

-Colly

 

[Boota]

I'm with you on this Dr. Mabeuse. I never think about what adjectives I'm going to use, or adverbs, or modifiers, or even if it is proper speech half the time. I just start writing and see what falls out. One thing I did specifically try to do with The Man In The Woods, being that it is the only erotica I have ever written, was to stay away from overly describing the body parts. Especially sexual organs. I have been asked, "Why didn't you say how big his dick was?" or "How big are her tits?" The only answer I have is, "How big would you like?" I consciously tried to stay within the emotional spectrum, with bodily reactions being just the physical manifestations of those emotions. Mechanically, all sex is the same. In/Out, repeat if necessary. I wasn't really interested in writing something akin to a sex manual.

Besides, my story is really just Little Red Riding Hood anyway. LOL.

I do like the idea of analyzing the writings on this site as well. Even when it is mine. I can take it. I spend a lot of my time, after the fact, thinking about what works and why. Not just on this piece I have posted here, but on all my writing. Other than this forum, I really don't have access to many writers. (Strangely, I have friends who write professionally, but we never actually talk about writing. LOL.)

 

[Pure]

Folks, please note that I've tried mainly to look at writing of those NOT hanging around Author's. That is precisely to avoid having posted critiques reflective of personal grudges and agendas, or causative of personal hurts.

Raphy, in view of your sensitivities and capacity for long suppurating psychic wounds, be assured I'll likely never do such a terrible thing as criticize your writings here or in any other public forum.

May you receive only and

Beginning in October, you've posted your first stories here at Lit and I hope, as your production increases, your writing finds an appropriate and appreciative audience.

J.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

[direct quote]

[......snipped..........see above for entire passage]

I taped, I taped, I taped. Black like a beetle's back, those polished fingers went around the red bead of a hard, hard clit, then up inside [byte]bitch's cunt. Back and forth, back and forth, a liquid action, repetitive and slow. I taped and taped as her hand got wetter and wetter.

Beautiful shot, her hand, her wrists, her arms reflecting the shine of the streetlight, wet from her juice.

bytebitch, pushed off, turned, and I caught it all. She whipped around, black raincoat flying, wrapping itself around her. Her ass walked backward, toward me. Her legs, pale and white---boots scuffed, looking like little black cats playing in the junk. She moaned, like a deep-throated kitten getting a barbed dick. The raincoat flipped up and over her.

Bare and perfect, her ass was full and round, and with her legs spread everything was there for the cold night and the colder lens of my camera: twin cheeks curving up and down and around to a pair of velvet, wet cunt lips. The glow was real and wet under the hard light, her lips were parted, churning with her rough jerking off. Three? Four? Was her hand in there? Fisting herself in the harsh light? I saw and taped her lips squirm and bubble with pussy juice. Her moans became hard and quick, forced and stubborn. She grunted while jerking off, deep masculine sounds. …

[.........snipped........
[end quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, this is a very highly stylized piece of writing, designed to meet a specific need in this story. I think it's very effective used in small doses as it is here. Personally I don't think I could read an entire story written like this, but in its context I think it works very well.

The author uses clipped, brutal sentences. He's describing very sleazy, punkish sex and we see it in a blur of images rather than as a sequential description of what's done. It happens outside on the streets in some inductrial waste land no doubt, and the rhythm of the language and depersonalized imagery serve his purpose well. They make what she's doing seem tawdry and obscene. The colors are like a shock poster: all cunt pink and red and shiny black. (I did have to pause at the mention of her ass walking back towards him, though. I could just see her sitting there watching her ass walk away...)

They also communicate what he's feeling without him have to stop and tell us, thank God. That's one of the signs of an accomplished writer, to me, that his feelings come across in the way the story's told.

Notice there's not a cliche in the whole piece. Even when his imagery doesn't quite work (as with the walking ass, or the boots as kittens metaphor) it's still fresh and well thought out. No 'hot, wet pussy', no 'vibrating fingers' or reaching back into the cliche bag. I especially liked the way he described her moans, "hard and quick, forced and stubborn". You can tell that she's teasing him, putting on a show for him. They're stubborn because she's not going to stop till she comes, making him eat his heart out...

Very nicely done.

Of course, I can't see this working in a more romantic situation. As in all good writing, style and content are pretty well fused,

---dr.M.

 

[whispering_surrender]

Folks, please note that I've tried mainly to look at writing of those NOT hanging around Author's. That is precisely to avoid having posted critiques reflective of personal grudges and agendas, or causative of personal hurts.

J.

Actually, that wasn't meant to be a personal attack or to drag your work onto here to tear apart. I personally have read at least one or all of the work of most of the regulars here at the AH. (To the others, I'm getting there....I just need a 37 hour day.)

As Dr. M says above, style and word choice are intrinsically linked. I, personally, will never be a big supporter of "He grabbed that bitch by the hair, ramming his cock deep in her slutty cunt." Not because it's necessarily bad....*tiny shudder* but because that's just not my style. My writing tends to reflect that despite trying to hide it, I really am a bit of romantic at heart.

Based on this, when I disagree with someone's opinion, I look at their work, to see if it is perfectly appropriate to their style. What would sound right in their stories, might sound awful in mine.

Hence the question. Which I did notice, you two-stepped around.

Whisper

 

[Wills]

I believe the descriptive content of the 'act or acts' should totally dependent on the direction and mood of the story. So far I have written three stories, two posted, one submitted today and the NaNo novel - work in progress. Each story is very different. The stories move at a different pace and the writing reflects (I hope) the nature of the tale. The sexual/erotic content is simply a reflection of the overall mood of the story. For that reason, I have no great qualms about the cybersex extract - not my cup of tea but it suits the mood/theme of the story -- probably.

Dr. M, greatly assisted the editing of my Alien Incest story and described it as 'some of the most unerotic erotic writing I've ever seen, but of course that's the whole point'. The point being that erotic writing does not need to describe genetalia or secretions, in the the alien story they simply did not exist, but it remains erotic. The following extract describes the moment of 'coupling'.

A’adgt flooded L’idgt’s mind telling her little one, her dear sweet little brother to come into her body, to complete the coupling. She had recognised him from that first contact as surely he must have recognised her, a brother with whom she had shared her first memories. The knowledge released her from the fear of rejection. She caressed his body with her tentacles, embracing him, bathed his mind with gentle loving thoughts, and imploded his senses with desire and lust. As the acid dissolved the membrane and released his body A’adgt’s soft under carapace split open to receive him. The tentacles, now encircling his body, drew him from his shell and eased him into A’adgt’s underbelly cavity, her soft carapace closed to engulf him. His last thoughts are of an intense pain and of suffocating pleasure as he became absorbed within her. With a final flash of recognition, he knew his sister and surrendered himself unto her.

My Christmas story is deliberately descriptive because it suits the mood of the story, fast, punchy and salacious. Link below.

In my NaNo novel, the erotic content thus far, is largely tender and naive, dealing with a young couple discovering their bodies and feelings. The extract below, previously posted on the NaNo thread, brought considerable supportive feedback - it is erotic but almost absent of any descriptive sex.

We sat watching the sun rise, blanket pulled over us. She had raised her knees and held them in her arms, leaning away from me, letting my hands explore her body, caressing her back, fingertips trailing down the ridge of her spine; her body making little contortions as my fingers found and investigated places especially sensitive, like the small of her back, causing her to arch slightly at my strokes. I ran my hands lightly up her sides feeling shivers run through her and delved into the short sleeves of her dress tickling her underarms, stroking down the length of her arms and onto her legs, naked where the skirt had slipped down to her waist. She gasped as my hands gently slid down the outside of her thighs and across her stomach and she leaned back into me, twisting her face up to kiss me, moaning into my mouth as my hands slid up her body lightly over her breasts and up onto her neck. Her tongue pushed into my mouth as my hand slipped pack down snuggling over her breast, squeezing gently, surprised by the tightness and the clear erect stance of her nipple, she had no need to wear a bra, her breasts were barely formed. She kissed me more urgently, a hand somehow twisted up pulling my mouth down onto her, urging me to continue. We missed the sunrise, too absorbed by the discovery of new pleasures and sensations. Her breath started becoming shorter and sharper as my fingertips danced around her nipples until finally she pushed my hand away and collapsed her head down across my upper thigh gripping onto me with both hands as a wave of pleasure ran through her body.

She lay there shaking slightly; I ran my fingers through her hair, calming her, soothing her as she recovered herself, gradually she released her grip on my thigh. After a few minutes in silence, she pushed herself back up and took my face between her hands, with that gesture that I was beginning to love, and stared deeply into my eyes, I could feel her eyes boring into me, trying to understand what was happening. She brought her face forward kissed both of my eyes, washing them with her tongue and kissed my mouth, biting at my lips, pulling at them, as if trying to separate them from my face.

She leant back, crouched bottom on her heels and looked at me quizzically.

“I think I have just been made love to, but I still have all my clothes on, I don’t know what happened, suddenly I couldn’t control myself. These waves swept through me like feathers playing with my insides. Don’t look at me like that, like you want to eat me, you will start me off again, my knickers are wet enough as it is.” She blushed a deep red. “I didn’t mean to say that, I don’t know…I’m completely confused. I did not want this to happen and yet I want you to do it again straight away. I want to feel like that again. Hold me, don’t do anything, just hold me.”

The story I submitted today is different again and contains passages explicit, descriptive and highly sexually charged. That is the nature of the story, it is about lust and deception.

She whispered, “I’m dripping wet. It started while I was talking with your wife. You know she has such a sexy voice and she was telling me all of the things I should do to you. I couldn’t help myself. I started playing, just gentle rubs, but she could hear my breathing changing over the telephone. She helped me, guided me, she got me to move with her rhythm and we came together. It was so exciting. Now I am standing here dripping because of your beautiful wife. I have juices running down my thighs and now its started pumping again because I am talking with you. Touch yourself, she told me you both did this together last night. Take it out and rub yourself, she told me you would need to ‘relieve the tension’, that’s it stroke it gently. Listen.”

I was breathing hard, gripping my dick with one hand and the phone with the other and then I heard it. A soft squishing sound as she fingered her pussy with the receiver held close to it.

“Can you hear me? Listen to me fucking myself for you. Can you smell me? I bet you can. Are you coming because I cannot wait much longer? I am cumming NOW! Cum with me meu amore.”

I shouted and shot another load over the carpet adding to last night’s mess. This is getting ridiculous, I have never had phone sex before, and now I have had it twice with two different women in a few hours.

The examples, I hope, serve to show the mood and pace of each story. I would be interested in how you react to these extracts.

Will's

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=118302
Christmas Joy - A Special Delivery
http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=116799
A'adgt's Initiation - A tale of Alien Incest

 

[raphy]

Raphy, in view of your sensitivities and capacity for long suppurating psychic wounds, be assured I'll likely never do such a terrible thing as criticize your writings here or in any other public forum.

I'm touched. No, really...

... And in view of your supercilious need to repeatedly attempt to demonstrate your superior vocabulary, be assured that it's not due to the potential critcism of my work by you that fuels my dislike of you, it's purely because I think you're an ass.



Oh, edited, because I forgot to add a and a .. Offered with the same good will as yours, of course.

p.s. By the way - I think what whisper's trying to say, albeit more politely is:

Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Pure]

Hi Wills,


We sat watching the sun rise, blanket pulled over us. She had raised her knees and held them in her arms, leaning away from me, letting my hands explore her body, caressing her back, fingertips trailing down the ridge of her spine; her body making little contortions as my fingers found and investigated places especially sensitive, like the small of her back, causing her to arch slightly at my strokes. I ran my hands lightly up her sides feeling shivers run through her and delved into the short sleeves of her dress tickling her underarms, stroking down the length of her arms and onto her legs, naked where the skirt had slipped down to her waist. She gasped as my hands gently slid down the outside of her thighs and across her stomach and she leaned back into me, twisting her face up to kiss me, moaning into my mouth as my hands slid up her body lightly over her breasts and up onto her neck. Her tongue pushed into my mouth as my hand slipped pack down snuggling over her breast, squeezing gently, surprised by the tightness and the clear erect stance of her nipple, she had no need to wear a bra, her breasts were barely formed. She kissed me more urgently, a hand somehow twisted up pulling my mouth down onto her, urging me to continue. We missed the sunrise, too absorbed by the discovery of new pleasures and sensations. Her breath started becoming shorter and sharper as my fingertips danced around her nipples until finally she pushed my hand away and collapsed her head down across my upper thigh gripping onto me with both hands as a wave of pleasure ran through her body.

She lay there shaking slightly; I ran my fingers through her hair, calming her, soothing her as she recovered herself, gradually she released her grip on my thigh. After a few minutes in silence, she pushed herself back up and took my face between her hands, with that gesture that I was beginning to love, and stared deeply into my eyes, I could feel her eyes boring into me, trying to understand what was happening. She brought her face forward kissed both of my eyes, washing them with her tongue and kissed my mouth, biting at my lips, pulling at them, as if trying to separate them from my face.


I find this well written and touching, Wills. In this context at least, you keep the writing lean and strong. The adjectives are very scarce, about 8 in 400 words (leaving aside possessives), about 2%.

I wonder about this word 'descriptive'. What does it mean? I agree
it is erotic but almost absent of any descriptive sex.

I would still call it descriptive, though sexual parts are not characterized. It describes eyes and caresses, but in action. I don't reserve the term for adjectivally loaded prose. Do you?

Perhaps one point you illustrate is that, staying away from cocks that tend to be 'massive and hard', makes it a little easier for the writer to be fresh. I'd maintain, however that there's nothing in principle impossible about a fresh, lean (low adjective) piece such as this with sexual details. The early example I posted, I believe on page 1, Leduc, might qualify.

There is excellent variety of sentence structures, and the sentences are complex and moving. I especially like the following.
Such craftmanship is not common at all in lit's erotica.

I ran my hands lightly up her sides feeling shivers run through her and delved into the short sleeves of her dress tickling her underarms, stroking down the length of her arms and onto her legs, naked where the skirt had slipped down to her waist.

The break from legs, to the adjective following shows variety in use and placement of these critters.

I have one small cavil. The sequence-- lightly, gently, lightly, gently, beginning in the third sentence is, to my taste a bit too obtrusive.

Thanks for sharing a fine piece of work.

J.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Please comment on the above, more adjective sparse depiction of the woman, balcony, and esp. the sea.

How does this affect your claim that adjective are more necessary for the ocean than for the mind?

How does the *greater length affect your claim that
"I have no doubt yours [version] would be shorter" [presumably because of fewer adjectives].

As Uther has stated we are not merely chopping out adjectives, leading to "the woman saw the storm coming"; we are looking for better nouns and verbs, and I would add, sentence structures.

(Did anyone ever tell you you were stubborn?),

Colly is one who can get away with using lots of adjectives, because she knows *how* to use them. Adjectives are like jewelry. If you don't know what you are doing it's better to stick with one peice. But some people *can* where necklace, earings, bracelets and rings and make it all look good- and then even throw in a tiara and look even better Obviously this is a rare skill. Her adjectives don't unnecisarily slow down the pace of hte story. (my keys are sticking, sorry) or in other ways inhibit the reader. For example she doesnt' say, "she thoughtfully leaned accross the cool grey marble railing and gazed mounfully with sad desperate pleading eyes out at the fierce blue rolling sea." see the diference.

 

[Pure]

SnP said,

//Colly is one who can get away with using lots of adjectives, because she knows *how* to use them. Adjectives are like jewelry. If you don't know what you are doing it's better to stick with one peice. But some people *can* wear necklace, earings, bracelets and rings and make it all look good- and then even throw in a tiara and look even better. Obviously this is a rare skill.//

Well, Colly is quite good in writing and takes care in her choice of detail. I don't want to 'personalize' the points if this thread, unless someone steps up and says, 'Here look at this!' The points are aimed at various writers of 'purple prose' who are common at literotica; the citations from me, are either from published sources or people I don't know at literotica.

Your jewelry analogy is interesting. Another point that might be drawn is this; while several items of jewelry may, where tastefully chosen, look good when worn together, this will certainly not be the case if you get them that the Dollar Store.

Iow, besides overuse, as in the examples at the beginning of the thread, the ones picked tend to be stale and cliched. I think there's generally a correlation of high quantity and low quality, but as you point out, there are occasional 'unusual' exceptions.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hello Again

I hae been out of town for a few days and haven't contributed anything. I see Pure is still on her anti-adjective/adverb campaign. I heard about a book that was written and does not contain a singel letter "e". I suppose this was possible but why would anybody do it? I could write a stroke story with no adjectives or adverbs but why would I do that? I wil readily concede that they can be overdone, such as the examples that started this thread but I also think that "her juicy pussy" will produce better results than "her pussy".

I think I would rather read or write: "Susan took my flaccid cock into her wet mouth, and after a few seconds, her skillful tongue had it fully erect." Five adjectives and one adverb. I could say "Susan took my cock into her mouth and it got hard", one adjective and no adverbs. Which is more erotic? Both sentences say the same thing but one has more modifiers.

There have been hundreds of thousands of books, stories, articles, etc, written in the English language and every word has been used many times so what you mean by "stale adjectives"? I realize writers should avoid cliches like the plague but combinations like "big, stiff cock", "juicy pussy", "erect nipples", "engorged clit", and many others get the job done and evoke certain thoughts in the reader, so why not use them, as long as we don't use the same phrase repeatedly in the same story, or at least in the same passage?

Here is another passage:

When I came out of the bathroom, Vicki was showing June something black and red with black straps. "George, dear, look what Vicki has here. Did you ever see anything like it?" Vicki held it up for me to look at. It was a black strapon but there was no dildo attached. The front was triangular and made of black leather and there was a leather strap that would go around the wearer's waist. A smaller red leather triangle was fastened to the black triangle and the red one had a slit down the middle and a two inch hole cut out of the middle. A one-inch stud was protruding through the hole and two short red belts with plastic snaps were on either side of the hole to hold the parts of the red triangle together. Two straps were snapped to the apex of the black triangle and they were also fastened to the strap that would go around the wearer's waist. Another one inch stud was connected to the apex of the black triangle, pointing in the opposite direction from the stud in the red triangle. Vicki was also holding two dildos, each about seven inches long and with ridges along their shafts. Both of them had spurs running off the top at the base, intended to stimulate a clit. Both of them had sockets in the bottom where the one inch studs would go. One of them had a three inch base and that one would be held in place by the red triangle. The other had no base and that one would be held in place by the wearer's pussy.

"Oh, George, did you ever see such a contraption?" What is it for?", asked June, looking lustfully at the dildo with the three inch base because she knew that was the one that would soon be going in and out of her pussy and she knew exactly what it was for and what it would do for her.

"George, your wife is curious and wants me to explain to her what this is and demonstrate it. Do you mind?"

"Well", I answered. I guess it can't do any harm."

In this story, June and Vicki are bisexual and we are role-playing that June and I are married and the three of us meet in Vicki's elevator and go to her room and suddenly decide to have sex. I could have said "Vicki had a strapon" but I wanted the readers to be able to picture it clearly in their minds. I also wanted June to pretend to be naive, although she knew all about strapons. I needed adjectives and adverbs to do that.

 

[Pure]

Hi Box,

We've been through this before:

I think I would rather read or write: "Susan took my flaccid cock into her wet mouth, and after a few seconds, her skillful tongue had it fully erect." Five adjectives and one adverb.

I could say "Susan took my cock into her mouth and it got hard", one adjective and no adverbs. Which is more erotic? Both sentences say the same thing but one has more modifiers.

The first sentence is quite wretched imo, but you're lucky if you can enjoy such reading it, I suppose. Mc Porn, I'd call it. If you enjoy writing it, you're not so lucky.

The stripped down second sentence is NOT the only alternative, certainly not on its own. That issue was dealt with earlier in the thread in examples with Colleen. You don't get good writing by taking trash writing and removing modifiers. That simply generates the porn equivalent of "See Jane chase Spot. Spot runs."

J.

 

[Hooper_X]

The two short sentences are good writing for the intended audience of very small children who are just beginning to read.

There is bad writing for children: "The Flopsy Lopsy Bunny has lost his shoe. Shall we find it for him, children?"

Pure's conclusion therefore does not follow but is still reasonably true. Lack or sparseness of adjectives can be effective but like many techniques it is very difficult to do well. The other extreme can also work with purple prose overflowing with adjectives and adjectival clauses but is fatally easy to turn into a parody.

Whatever works to tell the story is valid. A good author should be able to switch from terse active prose to languid descriptive prose and make the reader believe in both. A range of techniques is a good asset to any craftsperson.

Og

Spot on! I couldn't agree more. Terse minimalist writing has its place. But, if over done, it sucks the evocativeness right out of erotic writing, and it becomes prosaic... and not in a good way. Literary porn, like poetry, should paint pictures in the reader's mind.

 

[Pure]

Hi Hooper,

Since the tendencies toward and abilities in creating lean prose are so rare, and the tendency toward purplish porno-pudding is so common, this thread was created. No claims are made that sparseness of modifiers is the one key, or Way of ensuring good writing.

Since every thread picks a problem or issue, it's quite puzzling why folks feel the need keep saying, 'but there are other issues in good writing.' But if it makes ya feel better!

Hooper said,
Terse minimalist writing has its place. But, if over done, it sucks the evocativeness right out of erotic writing, and it becomes prosaic... and not in a good way. Literary porn, like poetry, should paint pictures in the reader's mind.

There seem to be several unsubstantiated assumptions: e.g., that lean* prose lacks 'evocativeness'; also there is the bogus implication that 'painting pictures' has something to do with using lots of adjectives and adverbs. That claim, in relation to Colleen's example was discussed earlier in the thread. Also, an extremely evocative and picture-painting example was given from the French story of the young women in the school dorm.

**lean= sparing in adjectives and adverbs, focussing primarily on strong, fresh verbs and nouns and (sometimes) figures of speech.

J.