Any Christians out there?

[JMohegan]

Exactly. My whole mindset, workethic, moral sense, all of it comes from that.

This is the heart of my objection, right here. The idea that positive character traits are necessarily tied to religious tradition.

I'm not saying it's wrong that your character developed that way; I'm just saying a religious grounding is unnecessary in order to be a decent person.

 

[JMohegan]

There is no separating religion from culture. We are far too close to the days when religion was an all-powerful cultural force.

Okay, this makes sense to me.

 

[Netzach]

Mmmm yeah, the first time I was told I was going to hell I was 7 years old. The 2nd time I was told I was going to hell I was 10. And the third time I was told I was going to hell I was 13 and I was pissed off and I shouted back, and now I regret that. Someone believing that I'm going to hell for the way I was born isn't going to change my fate.

Damn, you're a better Buddhist than me.

 

[rosco rathbone]

This is the heart of my objection, right here. The idea that positive character traits are necessarily tied to religious tradition.

I'm not saying it's wrong that your character developed that way; I'm just saying a religious grounding is unnecessary in order to be a decent person.

I agree, but our whole notion of "decency" is itself derived from religion. In the West, Christianity underlies almost everything.

 

[00Syd]

Damn, you're a better Buddhist than me.

Half my family are Jew-Bu's, I guess some of its rubbed off.

 

[JMohegan]

Mmmm yeah, the first time I was told I was going to hell I was 7 years old. The 2nd time I was told I was going to hell I was 10. And the third time I was told I was going to hell I was 13 and I was pissed off and I shouted back, and now I regret that. Someone believing that I'm going to hell for the way I was born isn't going to change my fate.

My best friend growing up had that thing on the door that Tevya takes down at the end of Fiddler.

I remember asking him what it was and being told it meant the angel of death would kill me, not him. What struck me most was the nonchalant way he put it.

 

[00Syd]

I agree, but our whole notion of "decency" is itself derived from religion. In the West, Christianity underlies almost everything.

Totally. And I love having that discussion with people.

"you know we wouldn't see that as a sin if there was no Christianity."

"What?"

 

[Netzach]

Half my family are Jew-Bu's, I guess some of its rubbed off.

I'm like a Ju-Bu who's just as shitty at both.

 

[00Syd]

I'm like a Ju-Bu who's just as shitty at both.

Haha me too. Highfive.

 

[Netzach]

My best friend growing up had that thing on the door that Tevya takes down at the end of Fiddler.

I remember asking him what it was and being told it meant the angel of death would kill me, not him. What struck me most was the nonchalant way he put it.

A mezzuzot?

There's more to it than that, way more. It meant that the Angel of Death would kill the Egyptians, not you. I think until we're enslaved you're all right. You kiss it when you go and leave your house and it contains the "Shema" (Hear o Israel the Lord our God is one) and basically reminds you every time you come and go from the house what's what.

A third of the units I trick or treated at always had them. I'd say one percent of those people ever kissed the thing.

 

[rosco rathbone]

My best friend growing up had that thing on the door that Tevya takes down at the end of Fiddler.

I remember asking him what it was and being told it meant the angel of death would kill me, not him. What struck me most was the nonchalant way he put it.

Are you firstborn? Should be safe, otherwise.

 

[Recidiva]

I grew up in a house where religion and sex were not discussed. Ever.

I think the only culture I have available is middle class American suburb.

 

[JMohegan]

I agree, but our whole notion of "decency" is itself derived from religion. In the West, Christianity underlies almost everything.

I understand the point about Judeo-Christian tradition being the foundation for Western ethical principles and law.

Is my definition of "decent" so different from Netzach's? I guess that's what I'm getting at here.

 

[JMohegan]

Are you firstborn? Should be safe, otherwise.

One boy, one girl, I'm first.

 

[00Syd]

I understand the point about Judeo-Christian tradition being the foundation for Western ethical principles and law.

Is my definition of "decent" so different from Netzach's? I guess that's what I'm getting at here.

I doubt it. We all grew up in the West.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I understand the point about Judeo-Christian tradition being the foundation for Western ethical principles and law.

Is my definition of "decent" so different from Netzach's? I guess that's what I'm getting at here.

She, as a Jew, is the ethical grandmother of us all.

 

[rosco rathbone]

One boy, one girl, I'm first.

Stay out of Egypt!

 

[Netzach]

I doubt it. We all grew up in the West.

Exactly. And in America. Had I grown up in pre-holocaust Europe I think we'd have a lot more confusion. Not merely generational.

Some of that stuff is still in the static for me, and therapists are really eager to help me get rid of it.

 

[JMohegan]

Stay out of Egypt!

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Netzach]

She, as a Jew, is the ethical grandmother of us all.

*snort* it's true, a Lucy of morality.

Leave your little brother ALONE.

 

[WriterDom]

Convert, and you're Christian. Period. It has zero to do with your birth.

I'm not offended or pissed off about this, but I don't think people understand the extent to which religion can really, truly be absent from someone's life.

But to become a Catholic is not so easy if you have been baptized. You have to confess to every sin first. Maybe they can do it in broad strokes. "Forgive me Father I have masturbated roughly 11,000 times."

 

[JMohegan]

I doubt it. We all grew up in the West.

Well if Netzach and I harbor roughly the same view of "decent," what's the point of labeling me Christian again?

 

[Netzach]

But to become a Catholic is not so easy if you have been baptized. You have to confess to every sin first. Maybe they can do it in broad strokes. "Forgive me Father I have masturbated roughly 11,000 times."

You have to hand it to them, for having a really high bar, they've done really really well.

 

[Netzach]

Well if Netzach and I harbor roughly the same view of "decent," what's the point of labeling me Christian again?

Because we're both getting it off the same Christian-ethics schooled deists from 1700. And you didn't come out of a Hindu womb. Also, I'm much less troubled by the acid-thrower-backer chick than people more schooled in turning the other cheek and eye for an eye everyone is blind, there are some subtle things.

This stuff gets really nutty.

 

[00Syd]

This stuff gets really nutty.

Understatement of the century.