spankableBelle
His unruly kitten
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- Dec 23, 2001
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~smiles~
Again, agreed.
Again, agreed.
Anyone out there who is into BDSM but your partner/spouse is NOT?
- Thread starter Lady Emerald
- Start date
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 18,730
sexymom said:
Welcome to the discussion, and thanks for your honesty. I think it is good for people to hear a little reality instead of ideas based on desires only, and pressure from what is perceived as adult behaviour when in reality it is a way to try and live life in a way where you take what you want regardless of how it affects those you are saying you love.
Catalina
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
One Person's Long Journey
Hi Johnny,
It's great to see you sharing your thoughts:
Johnny M: 10-08-03 [what's a married person with kinky desires to do?]
1) When you get married, doesn't that mean you have surrendered the right to act without regard for your partner? If you want to follow your dreams and desires without any guilt or responsibility, you should be single.
It's good to see you appreciating the responsibilities of marriage, and noting the irresponsibility of singledom. You've come a long way in just nine months. I can't tell if your new insights come from getting married. In any case, we have much to learn from your 'takes' on singledom.
As a single, I find you were genial and unassuming; a bit less 'preachy' and authoritative,
12-27-02 Say 'Hi!" to the new guy!!
[Johnny Mayberry, introduction]
Hey guys, gals, and everyone in between! I'm new to this board, and I figured I had better introduce myself before I got lost in the shuffle of people here! I'm 28, single, perpetually horny, devoutly atheist, and liberal as all get-out. I read everything I can get my hands on, love to do about a million differnt things at once, and I frankly feel lost and lonely in the land of Andy and Opie. I actually do live in 'Mayberry'; Andy griffith was born and raised here, a stretch of highway is named after him, and out big claim to fame is the presence of Barney Fife's police car.
I originally came here looking for sex, or at least something good to masturbate to, but I was impressed by the sense of community here. I decided to put my peter away and introduce myself, in the hopes of maybe finding a little niche in this community.
Anyways, the point of all this is to say hello, and I hope I get to know some folks here better!
===
12-27-02, same thread,
that was fast.... Jeez, look at you folks welcoming me with open arms(and legs, one hopes!) Did I mention that I would like to have sex with every women here? Or does that just go without saying?
------
I see you showed sound understanding of dating, and the importance of being nice, a gentleman as you are to this day:
12-27-02
Hey, guys, turn that trick to your advantage, without being a scumbag! Be VERY nice to every girl you meet, even if you are not interested in them. Word gets around, you know. I found this out accidentally, after I managed to get a date with a girl who I thought was way out of my league. It turns out that 'the girls' had been talking about "that nice guy who comes to the bar on the weekends and says 'hi' to everyone and flirts without trying to dive down your pants"...word of mouth is the best advertising you can get!
You also showed a good understanding of a male mind--of course with some fine sense of humor:
12-29-02 "Someone please explain the male mind"
...BEER BOOBS BUTTS BASEBALL BEER BOOBS BUTTS FOOTBALL BEER SLEEP NAP BLOWJOB MORE SLEEP BEER BOOBS...
------
I thought your method, below, of getting past the animal nature and achieving gonadal control was innovative and effective; definitely worth sharing with the morally challenged in this thread. There are so many who are led around by balls and stiff pricks, ovaries and wet cunts,and don't know--so to say--how to handle it:
12-29-02 Same thread. "Someone please..." [on guys who try to get laid, first date:]
JM:
No, I'm really one of those nice guys, I swear!!! Actually, I'm just so used to not getting any sex that i usually masturbate twice before a date...imagine my horror when a woman is actually willing to give me sex, and I'm trying for my 4th orgasm of teh evening...at least I don't go off immediately!
Men are pretty stupid about sex, i'll admit it. If you are interesting, I can go about 6 months with no sex and no explanation. Any further and I assume I'm doing something wrong.
===
It's been a long odyssey, and those who frequent the boards have always benefitted from your wisdom and experience. If you happen to be married now, I suppose that's the source of the increased understanding shown in your recent postings to this thread.
JM: 10-07-03
Let me ask you [Catalina] a question: Do you think that the evident greed for pleasure, at the expense of honesty, commitment, and any feelings that the person's spouse may have, is indicitave of someone who is interested in submission and service? Or is it just something that some middle-aged women go through when they have a 'mid-life crisis', where they want life to be like a shitty romance novel?
Having yourself gone beyond 'greed for pleasure' in these few short months, having risen above "perpetual horn[iness]", you clearly have something to say that can help us all, esp. the middle aged, on the path of self control.
Thanks again,
J.
Hi Johnny,
It's great to see you sharing your thoughts:
Johnny M: 10-08-03 [what's a married person with kinky desires to do?]
1) When you get married, doesn't that mean you have surrendered the right to act without regard for your partner? If you want to follow your dreams and desires without any guilt or responsibility, you should be single.
It's good to see you appreciating the responsibilities of marriage, and noting the irresponsibility of singledom. You've come a long way in just nine months. I can't tell if your new insights come from getting married. In any case, we have much to learn from your 'takes' on singledom.
As a single, I find you were genial and unassuming; a bit less 'preachy' and authoritative,
12-27-02 Say 'Hi!" to the new guy!!
[Johnny Mayberry, introduction]
Hey guys, gals, and everyone in between! I'm new to this board, and I figured I had better introduce myself before I got lost in the shuffle of people here! I'm 28, single, perpetually horny, devoutly atheist, and liberal as all get-out. I read everything I can get my hands on, love to do about a million differnt things at once, and I frankly feel lost and lonely in the land of Andy and Opie. I actually do live in 'Mayberry'; Andy griffith was born and raised here, a stretch of highway is named after him, and out big claim to fame is the presence of Barney Fife's police car.
I originally came here looking for sex, or at least something good to masturbate to, but I was impressed by the sense of community here. I decided to put my peter away and introduce myself, in the hopes of maybe finding a little niche in this community.
Anyways, the point of all this is to say hello, and I hope I get to know some folks here better!
===
12-27-02, same thread,
that was fast.... Jeez, look at you folks welcoming me with open arms(and legs, one hopes!) Did I mention that I would like to have sex with every women here? Or does that just go without saying?
------
I see you showed sound understanding of dating, and the importance of being nice, a gentleman as you are to this day:
12-27-02
Hey, guys, turn that trick to your advantage, without being a scumbag! Be VERY nice to every girl you meet, even if you are not interested in them. Word gets around, you know. I found this out accidentally, after I managed to get a date with a girl who I thought was way out of my league. It turns out that 'the girls' had been talking about "that nice guy who comes to the bar on the weekends and says 'hi' to everyone and flirts without trying to dive down your pants"...word of mouth is the best advertising you can get!
You also showed a good understanding of a male mind--of course with some fine sense of humor:
12-29-02 "Someone please explain the male mind"
...BEER BOOBS BUTTS BASEBALL BEER BOOBS BUTTS FOOTBALL BEER SLEEP NAP BLOWJOB MORE SLEEP BEER BOOBS...
------
I thought your method, below, of getting past the animal nature and achieving gonadal control was innovative and effective; definitely worth sharing with the morally challenged in this thread. There are so many who are led around by balls and stiff pricks, ovaries and wet cunts,and don't know--so to say--how to handle it:
12-29-02 Same thread. "Someone please..." [on guys who try to get laid, first date:]
JM:
No, I'm really one of those nice guys, I swear!!! Actually, I'm just so used to not getting any sex that i usually masturbate twice before a date...imagine my horror when a woman is actually willing to give me sex, and I'm trying for my 4th orgasm of teh evening...at least I don't go off immediately!
Men are pretty stupid about sex, i'll admit it. If you are interesting, I can go about 6 months with no sex and no explanation. Any further and I assume I'm doing something wrong.
===
It's been a long odyssey, and those who frequent the boards have always benefitted from your wisdom and experience. If you happen to be married now, I suppose that's the source of the increased understanding shown in your recent postings to this thread.
JM: 10-07-03
Let me ask you [Catalina] a question: Do you think that the evident greed for pleasure, at the expense of honesty, commitment, and any feelings that the person's spouse may have, is indicitave of someone who is interested in submission and service? Or is it just something that some middle-aged women go through when they have a 'mid-life crisis', where they want life to be like a shitty romance novel?
Having yourself gone beyond 'greed for pleasure' in these few short months, having risen above "perpetual horn[iness]", you clearly have something to say that can help us all, esp. the middle aged, on the path of self control.
Thanks again,
J.
Last edited:
spankableBelle
His unruly kitten
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Posts
- 17,201
catalina_francisco said:
One thing i have to say here is that...at least for me...what i do or don't do...every move i make and how it affects those that i love dogs me everyday.
When i am asked...'where are you going to go if you leave?' what are you going to do?' 'what about the kids?' 'what are you going to live on?' 'who are the kids going to live with?'...and all i can say is 'i don't know where or what or how or with whom, just that this is something i need', i get a nod and a sympathetic 'mmm hmmm' and then...'well, lisa, you had best figure all that out before you go destroying the lives of all those around you...'
Just because one wants to make a change in their lifestyle or needs to because of that calling deep inside, doesn't mean that they're trying to run away from reality when they don't leave the second that it hits. We each have our own realities to deal with and some paths are more clear cut than others. It's never alright to cheat and lie, but that in and of itself is a reality that a lot of people face...on both sides of the spectrum.
As to the original question that started this thread....i am in the same boat, Lady E...and there are many submissives and Dominants that are in the same boat...it's a damn big boat...and we're each going to handle it however is best for us to handle it according to our own specific situations. We didn't all make the right choice the first time around and now find ourselves paying for it. i wish you luck on the path you choose to follow and wish you happiness when all is said and done.
belle
Lady Emerald
Experienced
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2003
- Posts
- 51
AnelizeDarkEyes said:
I sure didn't mean to police the situation--sorry about that, have fun you guys!
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Catalina said to sexymom,
I think it is good for people to hear a little reality instead of ideas based on desires only, and pressure from what is perceived as adult behaviour when in reality it is a way to try and live life in a way where you take what you want regardless of how it affects those you are saying you love.
It's a bit hard to follow, but ... yeah.
There are far too many here who speak 'based on desires only", and lack any appreciation of the effects of their behavior on others. That is why the forum is fortunate to have a person of your consciousness of the needs of others, esp. loved ones. Most of us forget about them so easily.
Catalina, as you said a bit earlier,
which always amazes me when yet again you switch on Lit and there is yet another carbon copy thread asking the same old question.
Perhaps it is like the toddler who believes, and is sometimes right, that if they ask enough, the answer will miraculously change to the one they want to hear......and that is what it is usually about...people posting to receive validation for something they do not feel comfortable with, but would like others to give them support for so they don't have to take all the responsibility themselves.
Yes, there are always these people around who simply want to hear 'go ahead' [and be unfaithful]; and think that hearing it in some irresponsible postings makes it "so they don't have to take responsibility."
They--we--are indeed like toddlers, and are fortunate to run into more experienced persons-- counsellors like yourself and Dr. Laura Schlessinger--who pull no punches and let people know the folly of instant sexual gratification that so many seek; and inform what is the right and responsible thing to do.
Thanks again,
J.
I think it is good for people to hear a little reality instead of ideas based on desires only, and pressure from what is perceived as adult behaviour when in reality it is a way to try and live life in a way where you take what you want regardless of how it affects those you are saying you love.
It's a bit hard to follow, but ... yeah.
There are far too many here who speak 'based on desires only", and lack any appreciation of the effects of their behavior on others. That is why the forum is fortunate to have a person of your consciousness of the needs of others, esp. loved ones. Most of us forget about them so easily.
Catalina, as you said a bit earlier,
which always amazes me when yet again you switch on Lit and there is yet another carbon copy thread asking the same old question.
Perhaps it is like the toddler who believes, and is sometimes right, that if they ask enough, the answer will miraculously change to the one they want to hear......and that is what it is usually about...people posting to receive validation for something they do not feel comfortable with, but would like others to give them support for so they don't have to take all the responsibility themselves.
Yes, there are always these people around who simply want to hear 'go ahead' [and be unfaithful]; and think that hearing it in some irresponsible postings makes it "so they don't have to take responsibility."
They--we--are indeed like toddlers, and are fortunate to run into more experienced persons-- counsellors like yourself and Dr. Laura Schlessinger--who pull no punches and let people know the folly of instant sexual gratification that so many seek; and inform what is the right and responsible thing to do.
Thanks again,
J.
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 18,730
spankableBelle said:One thing i have to say here is that...at least for me...what i do or don't do...every move i make and how it affects those that i love dogs me everyday.
When i am asked...'where are you going to go if you leave?' what are you going to do?' 'what about the kids?' 'what are you going to live on?' 'who are the kids going to live with?'...and all i can say is 'i don't know where or what or how or with whom, just that this is something i need', i get a nod and a sympathetic 'mmm hmmm' and then...'well, lisa, you had best figure all that out before you go destroying the lives of all those around you...'
Just because one wants to make a change in their lifestyle or needs to because of that calling deep inside, doesn't mean that they're trying to run away from reality when they don't leave the second that it hits. We each have our own realities to deal with and some paths are more clear cut than others. It's never alright to cheat and lie, but that in and of itself is a reality that a lot of people face...on both sides of the spectrum.
As to the original question that started this thread....i am in the same boat, Lady E...and there are many submissives and Dominants that are in the same boat...it's a damn big boat...and we're each going to handle it however is best for us to handle it according to our own specific situations. We didn't all make the right choice the first time around and now find ourselves paying for it. i wish you luck on the path you choose to follow and wish you happiness when all is said and done.
belle
All of which you have demonstrated Belle, but unlike you, there are many who promote not thinking anything for your SO or children and just do what comes naturally and to hell with consequences.
C
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 18,730
Oh Pure, how pleased I am you have finally succumbed and realised the wisdom I espouse in the interests of your eternal happiness. It comes from residing and waiting on the saintly Francisco you see, what with his Lit Professorchip, and now his saintly status, some of that wisdom had to seep into my very being as I crawl and grovel at his feet for the minutest moment of attention from his beautific self. It is only fair and just, as I am sure you would agree, for me to share my gifts with all I see in pain and torment to help ease their torture.
Catalina
Catalina
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Catalina to Spankable,
there are many who promote not thinking anything for your SO or children and just do what comes naturally and to hell with consequences.
There's an object lesson, there, Catalina.
Is it a memory, or my imagination?....
Susan Smith, of South Carolina, mother of two young boys, turned up here in BDSM asking for advice, and was unfortunate enough to hear from one of those 'to hell with others' types ---whom must roundly condemn.
She had a lover and two kids, and based on what she heard she put the kids in a car, pushed it into a pond, so she could be with her lover, without excess baggage. Blamed it on a Black guy.
This sort of tragedy could have been avoided had she run into the elevated spirits here who say to all the selfish prick-driven and cunt-led people--- "Hey, kid, have some thought for others!"
J.
there are many who promote not thinking anything for your SO or children and just do what comes naturally and to hell with consequences.
There's an object lesson, there, Catalina.
Is it a memory, or my imagination?....
Susan Smith, of South Carolina, mother of two young boys, turned up here in BDSM asking for advice, and was unfortunate enough to hear from one of those 'to hell with others' types ---whom must roundly condemn.
She had a lover and two kids, and based on what she heard she put the kids in a car, pushed it into a pond, so she could be with her lover, without excess baggage. Blamed it on a Black guy.
This sort of tragedy could have been avoided had she run into the elevated spirits here who say to all the selfish prick-driven and cunt-led people--- "Hey, kid, have some thought for others!"
J.
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 18,730
Advice from the holy to the lower plebs:
Like often said by many of us here there is no clear-cut definition of what to do or when to do it. There is no master plan that will solve all of your problems just by following it. There are however simple guidelines you can follow to make choices clearer. It is a fact that if you are not 100 % sure of entering the lifestyle, it is a folly to leave a fulfilling relationship, desert your children and quit your job.
But how fulfilling and happy can your relationship be if your needs are not answered. The questions you really have to ask is can I live without BDSM in my life; is this need in me overwhelming; and do I need to submit or dominate, or both to have a fulfilling life.
If the question is answered by yes than you have to start the next soul search, you have to decide what is more important, your own happiness or that of your partner and possibly children. This is not an easy question to answer and we are often burdened with tremendous guilt. It is that guilt that makes us try any possibility before ending the relationship.
Sometimes we sacrifice our own needs for our partner’s sake, living a life that is unfulfilled and where our needs are not answered completely. Most who decide that put their partners happiness and that of the children above their own. I find that an admirable intention to destroy your own happiness for others but it IMHO every person deserves happiness and destroying your own happiness for anyone else is not the way to go.
The other option is to try to find a solution with your partner, you start having an open relationship, or you try to convince your partner of becoming dominant or submissive, Sometimes you are lucky and you have a partner that is able and willing to change for you. It is not even that uncommon since people are attracted to what they need and so now and then their partner has the same feelings but has just not dared to express them. And sometimes you decide together to find an outlet for the feelings on the internet, or in any other way. I find all of these admirable solutions, honesty and talking is what makes these things possible.
The other option you have simple, do not tell your partner and hide your feelings and needs for them, find an outlet, which they are not aware of. This to me is the wrong way to go, in most cases it ends up horribly wrong, sometimes being able to maintain the relationship for years, but the odds are against you, it is the most likely that you will be discovered. So to me it is simply speaking not a real option, it is an illusion some of us want to have to think this is a real option.
The hardest thing to do and the most drastic is to leave your relationship and start a complete new life, a life that will be difficult, and what are you going to do with the children? How much are you going to tell them, how are you going to find a partner that is willing to live the life you want respecting your wishes and desires concerning the children? And what if your partner finds out about your needs and wants and uses that against you in a guardianship trial? It is not easy. nobody claims it is, nobody claims there is a simple way out. There simply is not and anyone who claims the contrary is either a fool or a liar (Lawyer). But in the end you will often find there is no other option than to close the life you had and start a new one. A life where your needs are answered and where you can be happy. However even if you decide to end the relationship you are in and start anew it is not a guarantee that you actually will find the partner you ache for. Every choice has it pluses and minuses, every choice is extremely hard to make. And in the end it has to be your choice, it has to be a choice a person is able to live with for the rest of their life.
My message, there are no answers and there is no clear-cut way out of this dilemma. Yes I find that often the best way is to burn your bridges behind you and start anew, but many if not the majority will disagree with me and will find it impossible to do exactly that. But to me what is essential will be you finally are able to find at least a solution that is acceptable to you, as a person, and is honest and truthful.
Francisco.
Like often said by many of us here there is no clear-cut definition of what to do or when to do it. There is no master plan that will solve all of your problems just by following it. There are however simple guidelines you can follow to make choices clearer. It is a fact that if you are not 100 % sure of entering the lifestyle, it is a folly to leave a fulfilling relationship, desert your children and quit your job.
But how fulfilling and happy can your relationship be if your needs are not answered. The questions you really have to ask is can I live without BDSM in my life; is this need in me overwhelming; and do I need to submit or dominate, or both to have a fulfilling life.
If the question is answered by yes than you have to start the next soul search, you have to decide what is more important, your own happiness or that of your partner and possibly children. This is not an easy question to answer and we are often burdened with tremendous guilt. It is that guilt that makes us try any possibility before ending the relationship.
Sometimes we sacrifice our own needs for our partner’s sake, living a life that is unfulfilled and where our needs are not answered completely. Most who decide that put their partners happiness and that of the children above their own. I find that an admirable intention to destroy your own happiness for others but it IMHO every person deserves happiness and destroying your own happiness for anyone else is not the way to go.
The other option is to try to find a solution with your partner, you start having an open relationship, or you try to convince your partner of becoming dominant or submissive, Sometimes you are lucky and you have a partner that is able and willing to change for you. It is not even that uncommon since people are attracted to what they need and so now and then their partner has the same feelings but has just not dared to express them. And sometimes you decide together to find an outlet for the feelings on the internet, or in any other way. I find all of these admirable solutions, honesty and talking is what makes these things possible.
The other option you have simple, do not tell your partner and hide your feelings and needs for them, find an outlet, which they are not aware of. This to me is the wrong way to go, in most cases it ends up horribly wrong, sometimes being able to maintain the relationship for years, but the odds are against you, it is the most likely that you will be discovered. So to me it is simply speaking not a real option, it is an illusion some of us want to have to think this is a real option.
The hardest thing to do and the most drastic is to leave your relationship and start a complete new life, a life that will be difficult, and what are you going to do with the children? How much are you going to tell them, how are you going to find a partner that is willing to live the life you want respecting your wishes and desires concerning the children? And what if your partner finds out about your needs and wants and uses that against you in a guardianship trial? It is not easy. nobody claims it is, nobody claims there is a simple way out. There simply is not and anyone who claims the contrary is either a fool or a liar (Lawyer). But in the end you will often find there is no other option than to close the life you had and start a new one. A life where your needs are answered and where you can be happy. However even if you decide to end the relationship you are in and start anew it is not a guarantee that you actually will find the partner you ache for. Every choice has it pluses and minuses, every choice is extremely hard to make. And in the end it has to be your choice, it has to be a choice a person is able to live with for the rest of their life.
My message, there are no answers and there is no clear-cut way out of this dilemma. Yes I find that often the best way is to burn your bridges behind you and start anew, but many if not the majority will disagree with me and will find it impossible to do exactly that. But to me what is essential will be you finally are able to find at least a solution that is acceptable to you, as a person, and is honest and truthful.
Francisco.
Lady Emerald
Experienced
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2003
- Posts
- 51
Oh my!!! Pure on Johnny--best entertainment I've had all week!! Hats off to you guys
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
To my learned friend F's mostly fine homily, I would like to add one small revision or objection, though my relative lack of moral stature makes me hesitant:
F: "The questions you really have to ask is can I live without BDSM in my life; is this need in me overwhelming; and do I need to submit or dominate, or both to have a fulfilling life. "
There is, in fact, no "BDSM" to ask yourself about; a "BDSM" need is not found in any psychology text or even novel (outside the 'bdsm novel').
There are all manner of sexual kinks ('paraphilias'), as a quick check of DSM IV or any standard psychiatric text, beginning with Krafft Ebing, will tell you: "masochism"--sexual excitement is suffering pain or humiliation; "frottage" --sexual excitement in rubbing up against strangers in crowds, etc.
Some of the 'kinked' folks find themselves happy under the umbrella of BDSM, its official and unofficial, self appointed spokespersons, but vast differences exist as to sexual tastes, and such basic questions as longterm committed vs. shortterm fun; monogamy or not; 'open' relationships or not, etc.
Domination and Submission have achieved a kind of iconic status, (as has the 'catch all' term 'BDSM') claimed by folks calling themselves Master Stephen, and Mistress Sade and so on. The black- or leather-garbed folk who now even turn up on the talk shows and in primetime TV (CSI). They don't necessarily represent anyone besides themselves, and are not necessarily shining examples of BDSM.
In fact the practices aren't very complicated. They aren't perversions, and aren't even necessarily sexual. Dominating is getting your way. Submitting is letting or being forced or 'forced' to let someone else have his/her way with you.
They are phenomena as old as time: Read the OT. The husband gets his way; he rules. In the NT, he is head of the house as Christ is head of the Church. The wife submits. The issue of sex is neither here nor there-- 'getting your way,' for a hubby, might mean having her wash the floor;-- or giving you a good fuck.
So the search for a dom, or sub, so long as you're within sex roles is pretty easy, it's just not called that. It has no necessary connection to the 'dark side' of sexuality, etc.:
If you(f) want a dom, find a fundamentalist Xtian, Jew, or Muslim, and make your vows of obedience to him. It's true there is a one in a million educated, literary, liberal-in-religion (St. F) or atheistic doms but they're as scarce as hen's teeth; out of reach unless you have exceptional endowments.
If you, as red blooded American guy are looking for a 'sub' and can't find a Fundamentalist woman, such as certain Baptist ladies, it's best to go overseas, e.g, to the Philippines, where a wife who'll submit is easy to find. Again, the one in a million 'literary' subs who'll quote Shakespeare and Derrida, or Beauvoir and Cixous are pretty scarce and gonna be damned unavailable unless you have exceptional assets.
So the questions of perverse desires, inside or outside relationships (in addition to or replacing traditional 1-1 heterosexual partnerships) are not really clarified by reducing the wide world of perversions to 'domination' or 'submission'--by reducing those myriad interesting questions to "Am I a Dom." or "Am I a sub" or 'How do I fit in the [alleged] BDSM lifestyle?" There's simply no such thing.
J.
F: "The questions you really have to ask is can I live without BDSM in my life; is this need in me overwhelming; and do I need to submit or dominate, or both to have a fulfilling life. "
There is, in fact, no "BDSM" to ask yourself about; a "BDSM" need is not found in any psychology text or even novel (outside the 'bdsm novel').
There are all manner of sexual kinks ('paraphilias'), as a quick check of DSM IV or any standard psychiatric text, beginning with Krafft Ebing, will tell you: "masochism"--sexual excitement is suffering pain or humiliation; "frottage" --sexual excitement in rubbing up against strangers in crowds, etc.
Some of the 'kinked' folks find themselves happy under the umbrella of BDSM, its official and unofficial, self appointed spokespersons, but vast differences exist as to sexual tastes, and such basic questions as longterm committed vs. shortterm fun; monogamy or not; 'open' relationships or not, etc.
Domination and Submission have achieved a kind of iconic status, (as has the 'catch all' term 'BDSM') claimed by folks calling themselves Master Stephen, and Mistress Sade and so on. The black- or leather-garbed folk who now even turn up on the talk shows and in primetime TV (CSI). They don't necessarily represent anyone besides themselves, and are not necessarily shining examples of BDSM.
In fact the practices aren't very complicated. They aren't perversions, and aren't even necessarily sexual. Dominating is getting your way. Submitting is letting or being forced or 'forced' to let someone else have his/her way with you.
They are phenomena as old as time: Read the OT. The husband gets his way; he rules. In the NT, he is head of the house as Christ is head of the Church. The wife submits. The issue of sex is neither here nor there-- 'getting your way,' for a hubby, might mean having her wash the floor;-- or giving you a good fuck.
So the search for a dom, or sub, so long as you're within sex roles is pretty easy, it's just not called that. It has no necessary connection to the 'dark side' of sexuality, etc.:
If you(f) want a dom, find a fundamentalist Xtian, Jew, or Muslim, and make your vows of obedience to him. It's true there is a one in a million educated, literary, liberal-in-religion (St. F) or atheistic doms but they're as scarce as hen's teeth; out of reach unless you have exceptional endowments.
If you, as red blooded American guy are looking for a 'sub' and can't find a Fundamentalist woman, such as certain Baptist ladies, it's best to go overseas, e.g, to the Philippines, where a wife who'll submit is easy to find. Again, the one in a million 'literary' subs who'll quote Shakespeare and Derrida, or Beauvoir and Cixous are pretty scarce and gonna be damned unavailable unless you have exceptional assets.
So the questions of perverse desires, inside or outside relationships (in addition to or replacing traditional 1-1 heterosexual partnerships) are not really clarified by reducing the wide world of perversions to 'domination' or 'submission'--by reducing those myriad interesting questions to "Am I a Dom." or "Am I a sub" or 'How do I fit in the [alleged] BDSM lifestyle?" There's simply no such thing.
J.
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A Desert Rose
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Pure says BDSM, as a lifestyle choice, does not exist.
Which begs the question: Why are you posting here, Pure?
Which begs the question: Why are you posting here, Pure?
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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Hello Pure,
I do not see it as a lifestyle choice, it is a lifestyle compulsion; it is a need inside a person. Your beliefs makes it clear why you simply can not comprehend or fathom what those who feel these needs inside them go through.
To make an analogy you can comprehend.
You are trying to understand what it is to be gay believing homosexuality is a sexual disorder, a disease.
Most of us who have realised what we are and have accepted the needs we have also have found peace and direction. I hope one day you will find the same.
To all of you who believe that BDSM, submission, domination or switchness (if there is such a word) is something deeper, I say there are more like you, many of us on this board believe that there is a need which we need to fulfil and you are not alone out here.
Amen and peace to you brother Pure.
Francisco.
I do not see it as a lifestyle choice, it is a lifestyle compulsion; it is a need inside a person. Your beliefs makes it clear why you simply can not comprehend or fathom what those who feel these needs inside them go through.
To make an analogy you can comprehend.
You are trying to understand what it is to be gay believing homosexuality is a sexual disorder, a disease.
Most of us who have realised what we are and have accepted the needs we have also have found peace and direction. I hope one day you will find the same.
To all of you who believe that BDSM, submission, domination or switchness (if there is such a word) is something deeper, I say there are more like you, many of us on this board believe that there is a need which we need to fulfil and you are not alone out here.
Amen and peace to you brother Pure.
Francisco.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Hi F,
Your beliefs makes it clear why you simply can not comprehend or fathom what those who feel these needs inside them go through.
I suppose condescension goes with saintliness, and I thank you for letting me know what I can't comprehend.
My point is simple, though it's obvious why you as dom (though saintly) might resist:
The world of sexual diversity, of so-called 'sexual perversions,' and those who are in some way in their grip is ill served by being reduced to a simple two- or three-compartment one of Domination and Submission (or Doms and Subs).
Sadistic and Masochistic practices, among others, and in myriad variety, far predate the term "BDSM" which is now apparently to be construed as a certain vocal minority say, and as including simply "D" and "S" badges for the faithful.
Spare me the sanctimoniousness of :
Most of us who have realised what we are and have accepted the needs we have also have found peace and direction. I hope one day you will find the same.
To all of you who believe that BDSM, submission, domination or switchness (if there is such a word) is something deeper, I say there are more like you, many of us on this board believe that there is a need which we need to fulfil and you are not alone out here.
The sexual minorities do not benefit from the suggestion that the two desires (however deep) which animate you and your partner, are the only legitimate or even primary ones out there.
Nor do we aberrant others benefit when you Dom/Sub spokespersons ask that we follow your path to the self-described peace you say you have achieved.
Not referring to you, individually, but if this Dom/Sub vocal contingent wishes to be convincing in its 'inner peace', some of you/them might try being a little less angry, belittling, insulting, disparaging, and so on. Some of us perverts--middle aged and otherwise disadvantaged and often cranky to be sure-- find that utterly revealing of your true inner condition.
Here's hoping you find ((blah blah blah))...
J.
I reproduce your entire post, since I'm sure someone is going to claim it's misread or misquoted.
=======
Francisco said:
Hello Pure,
I do not see it as a lifestyle choice, it is a lifestyle compulsion; it is a need inside a person. Your beliefs makes it clear why you simply can not comprehend or fathom what those who feel these needs inside them go through.
To make an analogy you can comprehend.
You are trying to understand what it is to be gay believing homosexuality is a sexual disorder, a disease.
Most of us who have realised what we are and have accepted the needs we have also have found peace and direction. I hope one day you will find the same.
To all of you who believe that BDSM, submission, domination or switchness (if there is such a word) is something deeper, I say there are more like you, many of us on this board believe that there is a need which we need to fulfil and you are not alone out here.
Amen and peace to you brother Pure.
Francisco.
Your beliefs makes it clear why you simply can not comprehend or fathom what those who feel these needs inside them go through.
I suppose condescension goes with saintliness, and I thank you for letting me know what I can't comprehend.
My point is simple, though it's obvious why you as dom (though saintly) might resist:
The world of sexual diversity, of so-called 'sexual perversions,' and those who are in some way in their grip is ill served by being reduced to a simple two- or three-compartment one of Domination and Submission (or Doms and Subs).
Sadistic and Masochistic practices, among others, and in myriad variety, far predate the term "BDSM" which is now apparently to be construed as a certain vocal minority say, and as including simply "D" and "S" badges for the faithful.
Spare me the sanctimoniousness of :
Most of us who have realised what we are and have accepted the needs we have also have found peace and direction. I hope one day you will find the same.
To all of you who believe that BDSM, submission, domination or switchness (if there is such a word) is something deeper, I say there are more like you, many of us on this board believe that there is a need which we need to fulfil and you are not alone out here.
The sexual minorities do not benefit from the suggestion that the two desires (however deep) which animate you and your partner, are the only legitimate or even primary ones out there.
Nor do we aberrant others benefit when you Dom/Sub spokespersons ask that we follow your path to the self-described peace you say you have achieved.
Not referring to you, individually, but if this Dom/Sub vocal contingent wishes to be convincing in its 'inner peace', some of you/them might try being a little less angry, belittling, insulting, disparaging, and so on. Some of us perverts--middle aged and otherwise disadvantaged and often cranky to be sure-- find that utterly revealing of your true inner condition.
Here's hoping you find ((blah blah blah))...
J.
I reproduce your entire post, since I'm sure someone is going to claim it's misread or misquoted.
=======
Francisco said:
Hello Pure,
I do not see it as a lifestyle choice, it is a lifestyle compulsion; it is a need inside a person. Your beliefs makes it clear why you simply can not comprehend or fathom what those who feel these needs inside them go through.
To make an analogy you can comprehend.
You are trying to understand what it is to be gay believing homosexuality is a sexual disorder, a disease.
Most of us who have realised what we are and have accepted the needs we have also have found peace and direction. I hope one day you will find the same.
To all of you who believe that BDSM, submission, domination or switchness (if there is such a word) is something deeper, I say there are more like you, many of us on this board believe that there is a need which we need to fulfil and you are not alone out here.
Amen and peace to you brother Pure.
Francisco.
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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- Jul 29, 2002
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You are welcome Pure, glad to have been of service, since you seem to have appreciated so much my earlier attempt at enlightening you, maybe I can be of even more service to you and show you the errors in your ways.
Like I have already said Pure, you simply do not understand what we are talking about; sexual perversions are only part of the total. If you can only see the parts and not the sum of the parts you do not understand the whole picture. I do not claim that my way is the only way, nor do I claim that I have all wisdom. But I do claim to know my own 'perversions', to use a terminology you seem to accept, and you clearly do not understand or comprehend the way I and many like me live our lives and if you do, you are very good at hiding that comprehension.
For a lot of us in the lifestyle, scening is only a very small part of it. There is a lot more in this world then just one night every month with a pro Domme. Some of us live, breath it, are it. It engulfs our being, it is part of our personality, it is part of who we are and have become.
To bring it back to an analogy which you seem to like so much. Homosexuality was once considered to be a disease nowadays we have a more enlightened view about it. Often when homophobic personalities defend their views they quote outdated and old fashioned scripture. Maybe one day we will see a more and bigger acceptance of BDSM or D/s or whatever you want to call it.
Since I am a saint, I feel it is my duty to preach on behalf of my own beliefs, it comes with the job as it were. And I only claim that you have misread or misquoted me when you have, which unfortunately is not a rare occasion, but then when that happens thou do not scream so loud, so now and then you reedit your posts but that is where it normally ends.
Francisco.
Like I have already said Pure, you simply do not understand what we are talking about; sexual perversions are only part of the total. If you can only see the parts and not the sum of the parts you do not understand the whole picture. I do not claim that my way is the only way, nor do I claim that I have all wisdom. But I do claim to know my own 'perversions', to use a terminology you seem to accept, and you clearly do not understand or comprehend the way I and many like me live our lives and if you do, you are very good at hiding that comprehension.
For a lot of us in the lifestyle, scening is only a very small part of it. There is a lot more in this world then just one night every month with a pro Domme. Some of us live, breath it, are it. It engulfs our being, it is part of our personality, it is part of who we are and have become.
To bring it back to an analogy which you seem to like so much. Homosexuality was once considered to be a disease nowadays we have a more enlightened view about it. Often when homophobic personalities defend their views they quote outdated and old fashioned scripture. Maybe one day we will see a more and bigger acceptance of BDSM or D/s or whatever you want to call it.
Since I am a saint, I feel it is my duty to preach on behalf of my own beliefs, it comes with the job as it were. And I only claim that you have misread or misquoted me when you have, which unfortunately is not a rare occasion, but then when that happens thou do not scream so loud, so now and then you reedit your posts but that is where it normally ends.
A Desert Rose
Simply Charming Elsewhere
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- Aug 16, 2002
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pure
Ignore me all you choose to... it does not go unnoticed by readers.
If BDSM are not lifestyle choices, why do you post in this forum?
Ignore me all you choose to... it does not go unnoticed by readers.
If BDSM are not lifestyle choices, why do you post in this forum?
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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yes good question ADR.
I am eagerly awaiting the answer.
Francisco.
I am eagerly awaiting the answer.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Hi ADR,
pure
Ignore me all you choose to... it does not go unnoticed by readers.
If BDSM are not lifestyle choices, why do you post in this forum?
If all this is going to get reduced to one liners, the best I can do is quote your own 'saint'
Francisco: I do not see it as a lifestyle choice, it is a lifestyle compulsion; it is a need inside a person.
Is he allowed to post here?
In a word, I've objected to reducing "BDSM" and the larger world of 'kink' to the 'big two' endlessly talked about Domination and Submission. I object to reducing all aberrant souls to "Dom" or "sub" or "switch." I find utterly inadquate the idea that one can learn about one's sexual leanings in any depth, with just those two overused labels, esp. with their officially approved ethical content.
The granddaddies and mommies of us all, the early leathermen and women of the 60s were often highly kinked, and weren't afraid--- like today's doms-with-ethics and subs-devoted-to-their-OAOs--- to admit to a sado and/or masochistic sexuality.
All minorities deserve acceptance without having to fit the "D" or "S" cookie cutter. And the D/S folk are fine too, if they cease holding themselves as exemplars (of inner peace!) and give up the negative commentary on others.
Sorry I can't be any briefer. I know you prefer to get down to one liners. Hello to the masses of readers that have been in suspense over a question that was clearly answered, above.
J.
pure
Ignore me all you choose to... it does not go unnoticed by readers.
If BDSM are not lifestyle choices, why do you post in this forum?
If all this is going to get reduced to one liners, the best I can do is quote your own 'saint'
Francisco: I do not see it as a lifestyle choice, it is a lifestyle compulsion; it is a need inside a person.
Is he allowed to post here?
In a word, I've objected to reducing "BDSM" and the larger world of 'kink' to the 'big two' endlessly talked about Domination and Submission. I object to reducing all aberrant souls to "Dom" or "sub" or "switch." I find utterly inadquate the idea that one can learn about one's sexual leanings in any depth, with just those two overused labels, esp. with their officially approved ethical content.
The granddaddies and mommies of us all, the early leathermen and women of the 60s were often highly kinked, and weren't afraid--- like today's doms-with-ethics and subs-devoted-to-their-OAOs--- to admit to a sado and/or masochistic sexuality.
All minorities deserve acceptance without having to fit the "D" or "S" cookie cutter. And the D/S folk are fine too, if they cease holding themselves as exemplars (of inner peace!) and give up the negative commentary on others.
Sorry I can't be any briefer. I know you prefer to get down to one liners. Hello to the masses of readers that have been in suspense over a question that was clearly answered, above.
J.
A Desert Rose
Simply Charming Elsewhere
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2002
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Pure said:Hi ADR,
pure
Ignore me all you choose to... it does not go unnoticed by readers.
If BDSM are not lifestyle choices, why do you post in this forum?
If all this is going to get reduced to one liners, the best I can do is quote your own 'saint'
Francisco: I do not see it as a lifestyle choice, it is a lifestyle compulsion; it is a need inside a person.
Is he allowed to post here?
In a word, I've objected to reducing "BDSM" and the larger world of 'kink' to the 'big two' endlessly talked about Domination and Submission. I object to reducing all aberrant souls to "Dom" or "sub" or "switch." I find utterly inadquate the idea that one can learn about one's sexual leanings in any depth, with just those two overused labels, esp. with their officially approved ethical content.
The granddaddies and mommies of us all, the early leathermen and women of the 60s were often highly kinked, and weren't afraid--- like today's doms-with-ethics and subs-devoted-to-their-OAOs--- to admit to a sado and/or masochistic sexuality.
All minorities deserve acceptance without having to fit the "D" or "S" cookie cutter. And the D/S folk are fine too, if they cease holding themselves as exemplars (of inner peace!) and give up the negative commentary on others.
Sorry I can't be any briefer. I know you prefer to get down to one liners. Hello to the masses of readers that have been in suspense over a question that was clearly answered, above.
J.
I know it's not possible for you to be brief or concise. The more verbose you are, the more intelligent you THINK you appear.
Thank you for that change-in-tune response. Everything is so very clear now.
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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For the simpler people who do not know the meaning of BDSM.
Out of Deviants Dictionary which by the way is made in association with leather online. http://public.diversity.org.uk/deviant/
BDSM
Sometimes BD/SM. Bondage and Discipline, Domination and Submission, Sadism and Masochism. Catch-all term much used in North America to lump together those perves who play with physical pain and those who don't, reflecting a concern that the term SM, with its associations with pain, is not always appropriate. See also BD, SM.
DS
Sometimes D/S, D/s or D&S. Domination and Submission.
It is interesting to see how by using BDSM as a terminology it is excluding Sadism or Masochism.
Some Interesting quotes made by Pure,
There is, in fact, no "BDSM" to ask yourself about.
In fact the practices aren't very complicated. They aren't perversions, and aren't even necessarily sexual. Dominating is getting your way. Submitting is letting or being forced or 'forced' to let someone else have his/her way with you.
Now I wonder how the previous two quotes can be combined with this one,
In a word, I've objected to reducing "BDSM" and the larger world of 'kink' to the 'big two' endlessly talked about Domination and Submission.
My interpretation from your first quote would be that you object to reducing bdsm to anything but non existent.
Well so the question remains unanswered, why do you post on a forum called BDSM talk if you do not believe in BDSM? You have still not answered that question. And I am not saying you do not have the right to post here. I am just curious to see what the motivation could be for someone who does not believe in BDSM to post here.
Francisco.
.
Out of Deviants Dictionary which by the way is made in association with leather online. http://public.diversity.org.uk/deviant/
BDSM
Sometimes BD/SM. Bondage and Discipline, Domination and Submission, Sadism and Masochism. Catch-all term much used in North America to lump together those perves who play with physical pain and those who don't, reflecting a concern that the term SM, with its associations with pain, is not always appropriate. See also BD, SM.
DS
Sometimes D/S, D/s or D&S. Domination and Submission.
It is interesting to see how by using BDSM as a terminology it is excluding Sadism or Masochism.
Some Interesting quotes made by Pure,
There is, in fact, no "BDSM" to ask yourself about.
In fact the practices aren't very complicated. They aren't perversions, and aren't even necessarily sexual. Dominating is getting your way. Submitting is letting or being forced or 'forced' to let someone else have his/her way with you.
Now I wonder how the previous two quotes can be combined with this one,
In a word, I've objected to reducing "BDSM" and the larger world of 'kink' to the 'big two' endlessly talked about Domination and Submission.
My interpretation from your first quote would be that you object to reducing bdsm to anything but non existent.
Well so the question remains unanswered, why do you post on a forum called BDSM talk if you do not believe in BDSM? You have still not answered that question. And I am not saying you do not have the right to post here. I am just curious to see what the motivation could be for someone who does not believe in BDSM to post here.
.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Hi Francisco,
I appreciate your religious slant to your particular leanings, that you may want to say you 'believe in Domination" like the Pope believes in the Trinity.
I appreciate that you want the question to be like, "Well, if you don't believe in God, why are you attending this church?" (begging the question of whether the forum is a church.)
That is not my approach:
To your question:
I am just curious to see what the motivation could be for someone who does not believe in BDSM to post here.
To use our tired analogy, Do you see a problem with a participant is the GBLT forum saying "There is no such thing as 'homosexuality'"?
Would it be best, on your view, that that person-- like me, here-- transport himself elsewhere?
Would that make 'believers' more comfortable?
I participate to exchange ideas, and even obtain 'guidance' on my and others' efforts to live with--or even be driven by-- certain 'perversions', esp. those tendencies not limited to "domination" and "submission."
You might note that the deviants dictionary writer is seemingly aware of the North American effort to separate and/or downgrade S and M, as part of the elaboration of the BDSM framework.
"Catch-all term much used in North America to lump together those perves who play with physical pain and those who don't, reflecting a concern that the term SM, with its associations with pain, is not always appropriate. "
The other side of the coin, looking at his words in a slightly different way, is that taking D/S as primary axis or reference is also 'not always appropriate.'
There are a number of writings by pervs, well recognized in 'bdsm' circles, on this topic, though I'm not sure digging up and posting url's, as opposed to issuing concise put downs is what many of the main posters here wish to see (possibly excepting you, my learned friend and opponent.)**
J.
**But, what the fuck. For odd inquirer who may be reading this thread, see, for example the often cited (here) speech of Laura Antoniou
http://www.sexuality.org/latrans.html
I appreciate your religious slant to your particular leanings, that you may want to say you 'believe in Domination" like the Pope believes in the Trinity.
I appreciate that you want the question to be like, "Well, if you don't believe in God, why are you attending this church?" (begging the question of whether the forum is a church.)
That is not my approach:
To your question:
I am just curious to see what the motivation could be for someone who does not believe in BDSM to post here.
To use our tired analogy, Do you see a problem with a participant is the GBLT forum saying "There is no such thing as 'homosexuality'"?
Would it be best, on your view, that that person-- like me, here-- transport himself elsewhere?
Would that make 'believers' more comfortable?
I participate to exchange ideas, and even obtain 'guidance' on my and others' efforts to live with--or even be driven by-- certain 'perversions', esp. those tendencies not limited to "domination" and "submission."
You might note that the deviants dictionary writer is seemingly aware of the North American effort to separate and/or downgrade S and M, as part of the elaboration of the BDSM framework.
"Catch-all term much used in North America to lump together those perves who play with physical pain and those who don't, reflecting a concern that the term SM, with its associations with pain, is not always appropriate. "
The other side of the coin, looking at his words in a slightly different way, is that taking D/S as primary axis or reference is also 'not always appropriate.'
There are a number of writings by pervs, well recognized in 'bdsm' circles, on this topic, though I'm not sure digging up and posting url's, as opposed to issuing concise put downs is what many of the main posters here wish to see (possibly excepting you, my learned friend and opponent.)**
J.
**But, what the fuck. For odd inquirer who may be reading this thread, see, for example the often cited (here) speech of Laura Antoniou
http://www.sexuality.org/latrans.html
Last edited:
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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Hello Pure,
I personally do not mind whatsoever that you post, read, and exchange ideas. It is my personal opinion that anyone in this world has the right to be inquisitive and express their ideas. I will defend your right and anyone’s right to post here in this forum and any forum they so desire. Like I said before I was not questioning your right to post, I was curious about your motivation.
Coming back to your analogy, I would not see any problems with a person posting a sincere and serious question about homosexuality on the GLBT board. Like I have said before I believe in freedom of speech and the free flow of ideas and discussion. But of course the person who posts in the same forum would have to understand that most of the members of that board are part of the GLBT community, and that it might not be appropriate to make fun of their beliefs, to insinuate that they are full of it, and basically behave in a disrespectful manner. Would that happen, then yes, I feel that such a person loses the right to post and should be treated in the manner they treat others.
Coming back to the famous lecture of Laura Antoniou, taking into account that I was talking about BDSM and not only D/s, you will see that she describes a need inside her. One that was with her basically during her whole life, she has come to terms with it, and her story is if anything next to the fact that she is a strong believer in individuality, nothing but an affirmation of the needs you have inside you, the necessity to be that one person you are meant to be. Her particular perversion is SM, well mine is a combination between Sadism and D/s.
As you will note from my previous posting I talked about BDSM needs, domination, submission, or both. This should indicate how broad I made it and I did that on purpose. I tried to make a definition that covers all, not only SM or D/s or BDSM. Because every single one of the perversions and kinks we have is a valid expression of our individuality and most of the persons (at least in my experience), who feel those perversions and kinks, have them inside them, have a necessity and a deep fulfillment which once they finally give in to without guilt, once they can let out that what is trying to burst out of them, they become a happier person and a more fulfilled one.
I admit that my focus is mainly D/s which is not so strange since I am the dominant part of a 24/7 TPE relationship, and I am sure as you know once you are in a relationship like I have described, often it engulfs your being and mind for almost all the time. But I do not forget about the other facets of the lifestyle, yes Pure, some of us see this as a lifestyle. You may disagree with me on this but at least have the courtesy not to make fun, or forget about all facets of BDSM. You see there is more then just SM and there is more then just D/s, there is a lot more.
So when we forget about the silly jokes, about saints and moral high ground, and we forget about the fights and disagreements about cheating and lying and dishonesty, we have the reality that is. You could take into account that I have walked the path which many are just setting their feet on for the first time. That I talk based on my own personal experiences and if I express a strong opinion might have to do with the fact that I am trying to help people not to make the same mistakes I and others have made. I am trying to show them possibilities to make their path run smoother and not have to go through a process of hitting their heads continuously on the same brick walls. It is something many of us in the lifestyle feel strong about, sharing our own experiences and sharing our own feelings to help others make the transition easier. And if you cannot accept that well I will quote one of my favorite persons on the board (with a minor additive to fit me well), who is posting way not enough.
Kiss my Latin sugar brown ass.
Francisco.
I personally do not mind whatsoever that you post, read, and exchange ideas. It is my personal opinion that anyone in this world has the right to be inquisitive and express their ideas. I will defend your right and anyone’s right to post here in this forum and any forum they so desire. Like I said before I was not questioning your right to post, I was curious about your motivation.
Coming back to your analogy, I would not see any problems with a person posting a sincere and serious question about homosexuality on the GLBT board. Like I have said before I believe in freedom of speech and the free flow of ideas and discussion. But of course the person who posts in the same forum would have to understand that most of the members of that board are part of the GLBT community, and that it might not be appropriate to make fun of their beliefs, to insinuate that they are full of it, and basically behave in a disrespectful manner. Would that happen, then yes, I feel that such a person loses the right to post and should be treated in the manner they treat others.
Coming back to the famous lecture of Laura Antoniou, taking into account that I was talking about BDSM and not only D/s, you will see that she describes a need inside her. One that was with her basically during her whole life, she has come to terms with it, and her story is if anything next to the fact that she is a strong believer in individuality, nothing but an affirmation of the needs you have inside you, the necessity to be that one person you are meant to be. Her particular perversion is SM, well mine is a combination between Sadism and D/s.
As you will note from my previous posting I talked about BDSM needs, domination, submission, or both. This should indicate how broad I made it and I did that on purpose. I tried to make a definition that covers all, not only SM or D/s or BDSM. Because every single one of the perversions and kinks we have is a valid expression of our individuality and most of the persons (at least in my experience), who feel those perversions and kinks, have them inside them, have a necessity and a deep fulfillment which once they finally give in to without guilt, once they can let out that what is trying to burst out of them, they become a happier person and a more fulfilled one.
I admit that my focus is mainly D/s which is not so strange since I am the dominant part of a 24/7 TPE relationship, and I am sure as you know once you are in a relationship like I have described, often it engulfs your being and mind for almost all the time. But I do not forget about the other facets of the lifestyle, yes Pure, some of us see this as a lifestyle. You may disagree with me on this but at least have the courtesy not to make fun, or forget about all facets of BDSM. You see there is more then just SM and there is more then just D/s, there is a lot more.
So when we forget about the silly jokes, about saints and moral high ground, and we forget about the fights and disagreements about cheating and lying and dishonesty, we have the reality that is. You could take into account that I have walked the path which many are just setting their feet on for the first time. That I talk based on my own personal experiences and if I express a strong opinion might have to do with the fact that I am trying to help people not to make the same mistakes I and others have made. I am trying to show them possibilities to make their path run smoother and not have to go through a process of hitting their heads continuously on the same brick walls. It is something many of us in the lifestyle feel strong about, sharing our own experiences and sharing our own feelings to help others make the transition easier. And if you cannot accept that well I will quote one of my favorite persons on the board (with a minor additive to fit me well), who is posting way not enough.
Kiss my Latin sugar brown ass.
Francisco.
spankableBelle
His unruly kitten
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Posts
- 17,201
~!~!~!
(sitting back drinking some hot chocolate watchin' the words go by...)
(sitting back drinking some hot chocolate watchin' the words go by...)
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Francisco,
I'm sure your thoughts, accounts of experiences, pieces of advice etc. are of value to all of us. That's why I've taken the time to engage you, unlike the patron of 'kiss off' that you quote, since you are able to think, explain, reason, answer objections, pose objections, and 90% of the time keep your cool (dispassionate).
When you say
"I am trying to help people not to make the same mistakes I and others have made. " I'm sure it's meant in the way of every loving parent. Again, you say, "I have walked the path which many are just setting their feet on for the first time...." which I'm sure is not meant immodestly.
Unfortunately, each life is unique (or thought to be so by the one living it) and hence all children, and adults treated as children, don't learn as much, imo, from certain approaches: "Don't do X, I did it and ..." (or, 'been there, done that, etc.'); as they do from trying things out themselves. Cutting their own pathway through the bushes and thistles of life, having gathered information-- which I distinguish from moral cautionary tales; bromides, warnings, and scare tactics (i.e., 'you may die').
It's well known, for instance that certain 'safety programs' for teen drivers have NOT done well--accomplished objectives-- by showing lots of picture of twisted wreckage at accidents, mangled corpses, and so on.
The value of 'sharing experiences' , without advices, put downs, judgments, is of course something I endorse, esp. those experiences that don't fit the "I'm a dom" and "I'm a sub" mold, those that are of the wide variety of 'perversions,' esp. S/M, which seizes me.
I acknowledge my barbs and criticisms, and well as my own crankiness and orneriness-- all contributing factors to certain non productice exchanges, fits of pique, etc.; but I don't choose here and now to further exchange insults, put-downs, or little 'one-up-manship' lines with you or anyone else.
best,
J.
I'm sure your thoughts, accounts of experiences, pieces of advice etc. are of value to all of us. That's why I've taken the time to engage you, unlike the patron of 'kiss off' that you quote, since you are able to think, explain, reason, answer objections, pose objections, and 90% of the time keep your cool (dispassionate).
When you say
"I am trying to help people not to make the same mistakes I and others have made. " I'm sure it's meant in the way of every loving parent. Again, you say, "I have walked the path which many are just setting their feet on for the first time...." which I'm sure is not meant immodestly.
Unfortunately, each life is unique (or thought to be so by the one living it) and hence all children, and adults treated as children, don't learn as much, imo, from certain approaches: "Don't do X, I did it and ..." (or, 'been there, done that, etc.'); as they do from trying things out themselves. Cutting their own pathway through the bushes and thistles of life, having gathered information-- which I distinguish from moral cautionary tales; bromides, warnings, and scare tactics (i.e., 'you may die').
It's well known, for instance that certain 'safety programs' for teen drivers have NOT done well--accomplished objectives-- by showing lots of picture of twisted wreckage at accidents, mangled corpses, and so on.
The value of 'sharing experiences' , without advices, put downs, judgments, is of course something I endorse, esp. those experiences that don't fit the "I'm a dom" and "I'm a sub" mold, those that are of the wide variety of 'perversions,' esp. S/M, which seizes me.
I acknowledge my barbs and criticisms, and well as my own crankiness and orneriness-- all contributing factors to certain non productice exchanges, fits of pique, etc.; but I don't choose here and now to further exchange insults, put-downs, or little 'one-up-manship' lines with you or anyone else.
best,
J.
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