Are you a pillow princess?

[Persephone36]

Re: "I am not a pillow princess." (repeat)

Given your participation in the mouthy, vocal, tell-it-like it is sistuh threads and your words above....how would you describe yourself then in the affirmative as opposed to saying what you are "not"? (same question I asked Spankabelle)

You say you are not wholly submissive.

Not a PillowPrincess.

Definitely concerned with equality ....and you are nobody's doormat.

Okay, so what are you then? (because I believe each of you show clear signs of princesshood)

Curiously;

Lance

As far as I understood the question Lance -- it was about being a pillow princess -- a sub of sorts who presents themselves to be a sub -- and then wants to simply lay back and be attended to.

I believe I stated in the affirmative what I do *do* -- I'm as interested in giving my partner pleasure, in what ever way we are exploring -- as I am in receiving pleasure because it pleases him.

Now, I've never presented myself as only being a sub. I've said, more than a few times that I'm new to this. That I've only just had my first experiences -- and that I may be a switch.

My point was that in any sexual relationship I am as concerned with my partner's pleasure as I am with my own. I thought that's what the question related to. That a pillow princess isn't interested in that. I am and always have been. That's affirmative to me.

Now, let's just talk turkey here kiddo. I do not appreciate the references to "mouthy, vocal, tell it like it is sistuh threads" Which quite frankly -- I have no idea which you're referring to. You're referring to Quint's joking one? You referring to the ones where I was honestly sharing the ups and downs I've been having over the last week? LOL, what the hell is "tell it like it is sistuh?" I don't even get where you get that from. Do I do that with Eb or Shadowsdream? Uh, I think not. Do I do that with cym or Caroline or mg or lilfrk? I barely know them. I like them as much as I like anyone who's taken the time to respond to me. I don't even understand the term "mouthy" as something other than being an inflammatory term. I'm vocal because I have a right to be as you are. And I care for the men's opinions on here as much as the women's. I'm as close to Zipman as I am to anyone on the board. I participate in quite a lot of threads. But the way I hear that opening sentence of yours it had the tinge of an insult in the way it was delivered. It's certainly -- and I think you would agree to this considering the things you've lately posted -- not a compliment in your book. Also your last sentence I read as a challenge -- not a question.

Lance -- please don't play games with me. Drop it, okay? I don't go after you, in fact -- I've been rather supportive -- so don't start trying to go after me -- because I just won't speak to you anymore. I try at all times to take the high road -- not the low one. And you do know that.

So, you want to ask me to clarify -- I'd be *more* than happy to. That's if I understand that you respect me as an individual and you're genuinely interested in my response. You want to bait me -- play in the mud puddle with others who want to join you.

We are ALL here as equals -- no one person's voice is more important than another's. Just because this is a bdsm board doesn't make that any different. That is true of any bulletin board. Being submissive, or not, has nothing to do with it. I don't have to be more deferential to any Dom/Domme than I do to any sub or switch. I respect everyone here. I may not agree with them -- but I respect them. And I speak with the same voice in *all* threads.

Suddenly if I speak with my voice -- I'm going into "princesshood?" I don't have some kind of right to say I'm interested in being a sub? That's doesn't even make rational sense.

As I've said recently, you don't have to like me -- you do have to respect me. If you don't -- then we just won't exchange points of view in the future. If you want it that way -- I'm happy to accomodate you.

So perhaps you would like to consider restating your question.

Perse

 

[Sandia]

I'm a pillow princess, Lance. That's my opinion, and I "own" it. Heh.

Anyway, for a real contribution to the discussion - and I haven't been to the website yet, but now that I know about it I will go - I'd say pp is more about attitude than what somebody does in bed.

Personally, I like nothing better than a sub who does nothing in bed. I don't even like to hear a moan, unless it's absolutely, positively, unbearably impossible to hold in any more. (That's the best kind, anyway.)

I have noticed an attitude that says the sub has no responsibility in a relationship. The dom is just there to serve her needs - emotionally, spiritually, whatever. This treats the dom more as a mentor than a lover. (And yes, I just posted on this on another thread.)

This attitude short changes the dom, and dooms the relationship in the long run, in my opinion.

And Perse, I believe everybody is equal in this forum, and that nobody is obligated to change their posting style or confined in any way by whatever they like to do in bed. I've said this before, of course, but it's important. So that's why I'm saying it again.

 

[Persephone36]

And Perse, I believe everybody is equal in this forum, and that nobody is obligated to change their posting style or confined in any way by whatever they like to do in bed. I've said this before, of course, but it's important. So that's why I'm saying it again.

Thanks Sandia. I knew you felt that way -- but I think it's good to have it said -- by anyone and everyone.

Btw, I agree with you that a sub just wanting to be serviced emotionally, spiritually, (or really even sexually) -- isn't an active member in the relationship. And thus -- it isn't much of a D/s relationship. It's either selfish -- or the sub doesn't actually understand what the nature of a D/s relationship is about. Which of course could be an honest mistake, if they haven't actually read up on it or taken what it is to be a sub, psychologically, to heart.

But, a smart Dom/Domme is also going to be able to spot someone like this, I would think, fairly quickly. I would think you'd only have to exchange emails or talk once or twice to see that they're approach isn't about a D/s power exchange.

Perse

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Comforter Kings & Pillow Princesses

I'm no pillow princess, as i understand the term.

I'm supposing the term has more to with one's attitude toward emotional (and phyical?) submission then the actuality of lying back on the pillows and being sexully catered to?

Perhaps a definition (by MsWorthy, as the originator of the term?) is in order, so we're all talking about the same thing.

Cym & lilfrk made quick, uninformed fun of my use of the internet term "pron" a few days ago, and also lambasted Marquis for his sharing of how he and his girlfriend enjoy Max Hardcore as bdsm-flavoured kink-fuel in their lives. Easy evidence that their world-view outside the Forum's fluffy pillows is indeed quite limited and narrow of scope.

Oh lance. Don't you get tired of dragging my name around in the mud?

For the record, i did make fun of lance's use of the word "pron". It was small of me to make fun of someone else's mistyped word, especially since i make so many spelling mistakes and despite the way in which lance tried to brazen it out as some kinda internet slang. I should not have taken that dig.

However, also for the record, lance lied about my participation in any kinda lambasting of "Marquis for his of how he and his girlfriend enjoy Max Hardcore as bdsm-flavoured kink-fuel in their lives." I posted three times to that thread. In one post i told Marquis i didn't know anything about Max Hardcore. In another, i advised Caroline to ignore lance's jibes. In the third i sympathized with Marquis' frustration over the off-topic nature of his thread. Those were my posts. There was no lambasting of Marquis in that or any other thread.


I'm in Utah (a small town in the southern portion called Cedar Somthing - Cove? Springs?) with Tex until late Monday night. He's off working for a few hours and i'm waiting for him to return so we can continue time together. He made his laptop available to me (and ohhhh! I'm slow and hesitant with this thing, too, and keep making all kinds of mistakes. I really don't like this keyboard.) and so i decided to just pop in to say hello to y'all.

Hello.
I'm having a good time and am all locked up at the moment.
However, i think i'll return to real life BDSM now, boys and girls and bois, to my real life D/s relationship. More on the "Weekend" thread when i return.
Be well.

 

[Persephone36]

Re: Re: Comforter Kings & Pillow Princesses

I'm supposing the term has more to with one's attitude toward emotional (and phyical?) submission then the actuality of lying back on the pillows and being sexully catered to?

Perhaps a definition (by MsWorthy, as the originator of the term?) is in order, so we're all talking about the same thing.

Sandia and cym both bring up something that I've obviously taken a little too literally in answering the question originally.

So, before I respond again and so that I can completely comprehend the emotional attitude implied in being called a pillow princess -- I would definitely like to understand it better.

It would honestly help me a great deal if MsWorthy could redefine the term, as she sees it.

And I apologize if I dragged it off topic.


Perse

 

[A Desert Rose]

The questions is....

are you a pillow princess?

My question is: Who is the ask(er), who is the ask(ee) and why does anyone care to know?

Rose

 

[MissTaken]

I am no "pillow princess", by anybody's standards.

Anyone who knows me, knows this.

However, it shouldn't be shameful to be a princess. We are all looking for what completes us and if that means some view submission in the same vein as being a Goddess, so be it.

That doesn't mean that Lance or WD must share time with princesses, if they don't feel their needs are being met.

To each his own.

The tragedy of labels, titles and names is that if you don't fit into one little box, you must fit into another. Take it one step further and a label can have varied meanings to different individuals, not always flattering.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: The questions is....

are you a pillow princess?

My question is: Who is the ask(er), who is the ask(ee) and why does anyone care to know?

Rose

I really do want someone to explain this to me, please.

Rose

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: "I am not a pillow princess." (repeat)

I do not appreciate the references to "mouthy, vocal, tell it like it is sistuh threads"

Which quite frankly -- I have no idea which you're referring to.

You're referring to Quint's joking one?

Perse

Yes, that's the thread I was referring to.

Go back and read the things you said about yourself, Perse...then come back and tell me my questions were out of line.

Okay?

Thanks;

Lance

 

[Lancecastor]

FYI....

....please note the repeated "requests" for rephrasing and redefinition of the thread-starter's discussion by the founders et al.

(singing) "Stormy weather....."

Lance

Sandia and cym both bring up something that I've obviously taken a little too literally in answering the question originally.

So, before I respond again and so that I can completely comprehend the emotional attitude implied in being called a pillow princess -- I would definitely like to understand it better.

It would honestly help me a great deal if MsWorthy could redefine the term, as she sees it.

And I apologize if I dragged it off topic.


Perse

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: The questions is....

I really do want someone to explain this to me, please.

Rose

Please stop ignoring my request. One of you can surely answer my question.

Rose

 

[Desdemona]

Rose, I'm not sure I'm qualified, but I'll tell you how I interpret it

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MsWorthy


I have been researching bdsm online for over 4 years - in chatrooms, BB/Forums, lists, groups - and I have to say that I agree. The vast majority of self-identified submissive women I have met online are not submissive, in my opinion.

I think of them as PPs (pillow princess', they want to lie back on the pillow and and stay there) not as submissives. They want the sexual/emotional attention on themselves exclusively and do not really have any interest in submitting.

~pardon my intrusion into your domain *smiles*~
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think what they mean is that a pillow princess is only in it for the orgasms and emotional attention and isn't one who is willing to make the effort it takes to submit. I've been reading MSWorthy's site; she talks about the mental work a submissive must do in order to go against our societal programming and allow ourselves to give up power to a dominant. I hope I didn't screw it up too badly and that it made some sort of sense.

 

[Persephone36]

Re: Re: Re: "I am not a pillow princess." (repeat)

Yes, that's the thread I was referring to.

Go back and read the things you said about yourself, Perse...then come back and tell me my questions were out of line.

Okay?

Thanks;

Lance

The way you phrased your questions were not pleasant Lance. So in terms of being out of line -- yes, in tone they were overly aggressive in my book. I'm certainly willing to always have a dialogue but if you come out with guns blazing at me for no clear reason -- then it's pretty hard to have a discussion.

That being said -- I did just go back and read what I wrote on that thread. And honestly, I was posturing there for the sake of just being silly. I wasn't taking that thread terribly seriously. So, the stuff I was saying about being a bossy sub was truly joking. It's something my last lover and I had been kidding each other about what the new guy in my life might be dealing with, lol (so perhaps I was throwing it out simply because it had a funny reference to me.) More than half my posts were about serving people drinks.

When I was being aggresively provocative it was to make light of Dom/Domme -- sub relationships. That was the tone the thread had at that point, as I read it, at least. "Reving up the troops" is a joke. I think that has a jokey tone.

And I was making *a lot* of fun of myself.

I think the one thing I was actually serious about was that communication is so necessary for me in a relationship. As it is for the man I am involved with.

Shadowsdream picked up on that in the midst of a post where I was being full-force sarcastic.

My whole "enlightening" comments, etc., were meant to be taken as provocatively sarcastic. If you misunderstood that -- well, I won't say I'm sorry because I didn't say anything wrong -- I'll just say you could have asked me to clarify my intent. And I would have been happy to. See, no conflict then?

So, that thread doesn't really reflect any of my actions or thoughts about being a sub and being a relationship. As I said, I did not take that thread or my contributions to it seriously. You can believe me or not on that. But I think you've known me to always be straight up and honest. And I apologize when I'm wrong. You've seen me do that too.

If you felt slighted by my teasing you -- then try to remember that your teasing, was then rather aggressive -- I was just giving you back a little of what you were giving, lol.

But -- if the teasing bothered you -- you could just ask me about it (that is if you misunderstood my tone. As is often pointed out, tone and sarcasm are difficult things to clearly express online. One of the reasons why I try to actually avoid as much sarcasm as, I can possibly, lol, restrain myself from now.)

Does that help to answer your questions?

Oh, and let me try to be clearer about my own sub vs. switch questioning. I've only been interested in exploring my sub side in the last month. Mostly because I met someone where we just matched each other desire to explore. Serendipity. It played into where I was already going. So, I still wonder a little about the switch part of me -- but I'm focusing at this time and since I actively started participating on the board, on uncovering my sub side.

Now, if you want to start a clean slate (if it's not a clean slate -- then tell me -- I think I've been as upfront and frank as possible) -- then I'm willing to be honest about how I see the sub side of myself as it relates to interacting with a Dom, regarding if whether I fit the definition of a pp, or not.

Perse

 

[Guest]

Re: Comforter Kings & Pillow Princesses

Cym & lilfrk made quick, uninformed fun of my use of the internet term "pron" a few days ago, and also lambasted Marquis for his sharing of how he and his girlfriend enjoy Max Hardcore as bdsm-flavoured kink-fuel in their lives. Easy evidence that their world-view outside the Forum's fluffy pillows is indeed quite limited and narrow of scope.

Cheers;

Lance

First of all...I never posted in the Max Hardcore thread. I have no desire to. Get your story straight.

Second...I picked on you like you pick on me. That door swings both ways babe. Just don't let it hit you in the ass on the way by.

I haven't said anything to you in days. Nothing. Quit dropping my name. It's harassment and bordering on stalking. Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.

 

[lilfrk]

that post is mine

 

[gumbie]

Does it count

If i am fastened securely in place for most of the encounter so that the Dom/me has to do all of the work does that make me a Pillow Princess? Or in the case of a Dom working me over, a Pillow Queen?

 

[A Desert Rose]

I would still like to know

why this question was offered up.

Why is it important to assign a title or designation to someone?

Why is it important for people to deny that they are a certain title or designation?

Who wants the answers?

To whom is the question being directed?

Who really cares about the answer to this particular thread question? And why?

Is the lack of a response to these questions another way of invalidating them?

I am just an inquiring little pea-brain, don't mind me.....

Rose

 

[NemoAlia]

Questions like this are difficult to answer, since everyone's first instinct is to say, "No, of course I'm not!" However, I think that this question is worth asking, since it makes me stop and think. Really.

Am I a Pillow Princess? I certainly can be. Particularly in (and isn't this a little unexpected?) vanilla sex.

I remember when I first thought about BDSM. I wondered, "Why would anyone want to be a Dom/me if that means he/she has to do all the work?!" Seriously, the sub life seemed like the way to go, for one as lazy as I am. Even now, unless I'm emotionally involved with someone and I really do want to make them feel good, I tend toward passivity, whether or not it's 'in scene.'

Hey, the truth hurts. I do my best to get past this selfish laziness. Perhaps the best partner/Dom for me is one who can help me move in this direction, instead of expecting me to be perfectly passive.

 

[spankableBelle]

Re: Let's get this straight.....

....from the outset on this thread and nip it in the bud, please.

Too many threads like this wind up full of "I'm not like that." and "I am upset because I think you are talking about me." responses that defocus the discussion and create flames.

Spankabelle, no one said you were a Pillow Princess. I'm not one either. Neither is Eb. Writer Dom....welllllll.... ;-)

Now...Do you have an opinion on the actual subject?

Cheers;

Lance

i never said anyone did say that i was one...i was simply stating my opinion of myself...and i stated a further one when EB asked that i expound upon it...i did not take offense to the topic of conversation nor did i feel attacked by it...simply a statement that i did not consider myself, according to the definition by Ms Worthy stated in WD's thread starter, a pillow princess...

belle

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: I would still like to know

why this question was offered up.

Why is it important to assign a title or designation to someone?

Why is it important for people to deny that they are a certain title or designation?

Who wants the answers?

To whom is the question being directed?

Who really cares about the answer to this particular thread question? And why?

Is the lack of a response to these questions another way of invalidating them?

I am just an inquiring little pea-brain, don't mind me.....


Rose

Just bumping up the post. I am afraid it will be lost and not addressed.

Rose

 

[spankableBelle]

Re: I would still like to know

why this question was offered up.

i don't know...

Why is it important to assign a title or designation to someone?

i don't think it's important, but i think we all do it to some extent...

Why is it important for people to deny that they are a certain title or designation?

perhaps it is only important to the person that is doing the denying, perhaps it is something they need to affirm for themselves, perhaps it gives them a moment of pause to consider if they are or if they aren't...

Who wants the answers?

maybe all of us, maybe none of us

To whom is the question being directed?

again, maybe to all of us and maybe it was simply a statement given over for thought since not all of us visit the Dom thread

Who really cares about the answer to this particular thread question? And why?

i don't know...probably no one except for those that have posted on it


Is the lack of a response to these questions another way of invalidating them?

i don't think that at all...who knows why no one answers them, who knows why some things get more attention than others...just the nature of the beast sometimes on bulletin boards and chatrooms...

I am just an inquiring little pea-brain, don't mind me.....

you are far more than a little pea-brain, Rose...you are a person with wit and charm and you are a friend to some around here that value you and your thoughts and presence...

Rose

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: Comforter Kings & Pillow Princesses

For the record, i did make fun of lance's use of the word "pron". It was small of me to make fun of someone else's mistyped word, especially since i make so many spelling mistakes and despite the way in which lance tried to brazen it out as some kinda internet slang. I should not have taken that dig.

However, also for the record, lance lied about my participation in any kinda lambasting of "Marquis for his of how he and his girlfriend enjoy Max Hardcore as bdsm-flavoured kink-fuel in their lives." There was no lambasting of Marquis in that or any other thread.

Hi Cym;

"Pron" was not mistyped, nor did I try to "brazen it out". It's internet jargon. The definition link was provided. Trying to characterize it as a dig against You is, as usual, exactly the opposite of what happened....which is your standard stock in trade. Nice try, but once again, you've misrepresented what actually happened. You weren't taking a dig, you were making one. Fuck, but you can be pathetic.

I'd invite those who read Cym regularly to read her posts in the Max Hardcore thread for themselves and make up their own mind as to whether Moderator Cym was making a new BDSM Forum poster feeel welcome or not.

Cheers;
Lance

 

[A Desert Rose]

Does anyone wonder

or is it just me, why my posts have been ignored?

But it's ok, its not selective.

Rose

 

[spankableBelle]

Re: Does anyone wonder

or is it just me, why my posts have been ignored?

But it's ok, its not selective.

Rose

Rose, i answered your questions...

 

[artful]

Re: Does anyone wonder

or is it just me, why my posts have been ignored?

But it's ok, its not selective.

Rose

Just to even the playing field somewhat,...ask me a direct question,...and if I can answer it,...I will. You know I can NOT ignore you my friend!