Are you a pillow princess?

[Lancecastor]

What I always like about your posts....

....NemoAlia, is the way that you look at a question not as a personal affront, but as a question for discussion.

It's really easy to get defensive around here, and I can't say I've seen you do it yet.

Good for you!

I remember KillerMuffin starting a thread , I think out of anger at me, about "Alpha Doms". (the words Alpha, Dom are in my profile)...I don't think I ever posted to that thread, because I thought it was a set-up, but eventually she unloaded at me somewhere in that or another thread about how I obviously thought I was better than all the other doms by saying I wwas the alphadom, etc etc...as a prelude to the usual "Lance is A Big Asshole DramKing/Queen" insult-o-rama type rant. I could have pointed out that the two words in my profile were separated by a comma, that I'm an Alpha, or Type A personality, a Meyers Briggs "Leader" type and a dominant with small and big "d"'s....but I don't think she'd have said "Oh, okay, never mind."

I added Comforter King to Pillow Princess in this one to take some of the perceived edge off WriterDom's thread starter, which was based on Ms Worthy's articulate observations.

Some have posted defensively to this thread, as if they are being accused of something.

You have answered by looking inside and sharing.... versus putting up a shield, as I have done before and others do from time to time.

So, again, good for you!

Lance

Questions like this are difficult to answer, since everyone's first instinct is to say, "No, of course I'm not!" However, I think that this question is worth asking, since it makes me stop and think. Really.

Am I a Pillow Princess? I certainly can be. Particularly in (and isn't this a little unexpected?) vanilla sex.

I remember when I first thought about BDSM. I wondered, "Why would anyone want to be a Dom/me if that means he/she has to do all the work?!" Seriously, the sub life seemed like the way to go, for one as lazy as I am. Even now, unless I'm emotionally involved with someone and I really do want to make them feel good, I tend toward passivity, whether or not it's 'in scene.'

Hey, the truth hurts. I do my best to get past this selfish laziness. Perhaps the best partner/Dom for me is one who can help me move in this direction, instead of expecting me to be perfectly passive.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Re: Re: Re: Comforter Kings & Pillow Princesses

Hi Cym;

"Pron" was not mistyped, nor did I try to "brazen it out". It's internet jargon. The definition link was provided. Trying to characterize it as a dig against You is, as usual, exactly the opposite of what happened....which is your standard stock in trade. Nice try, but once again, you've misrepresented what actually happened. You weren't taking a dig, you were making one. Fuck, but you can be pathetic.

I'd invite those who read Cym regularly to read her posts in the Max Hardcore thread for themselves and make up their own mind as to whether Moderator Cym was making a new BDSM Forum poster feeel welcome or not.

Cheers;
Lance

Lance as a regular reader of both you and Cym, I have read that thread. I never posted to it because I had nothing to add. Just like this thread up to this point. However, what I saw was exactly what cym said in her earlier post on this thread. I also saw you bickering with others on that thread. Also I might add that I don't believe that Marquise is a new poster to this forum. I've seen him post here before. I saw him getting upset with all of you for not sticking to the subject he had started the thread for... NOT just cym....ALL of the ones that kept highjacking his thread with this bickering back and forth. I don't mean this as any type of attack on anyone, so please remember that.

WD...I apologize to you for this post, and right now I will say that I don't know if I'd be considered a Pillow Princess or not to be totally honest. I'm not actually sure I understand what this means and have not been to MsWorthy's site enough to be able to add my voice on this subject any further. Please forgive the first half of my post.

Respectfully,
dixi

 

[Quint]

I am answering regardless of who is asking, who needs to know, and why they feel the information is necessary. I'm answering simply because it made me think, and I kinda like sharing some of my thoughts.

I was a terrible pillow princess when I was with Hunny. I look back on it and go "GAWD, how did we survive when there was so much imbalance?" I hate being on top, yet I usually was. I hate always initiating roleplaying and deviant sex, yet I usually found myself doing that too. And so I kind of rebelled and went into "okay, just do something if you want to. I'm playing 'landscape.'" Realizing this, I definitely couldn't have stayed with him. He's a wonderful man, but I needed my partner to have more initiative, more control. Oh yeah, that's the key word.

Admittedly, I've only been in r/l with T for two days and a few hours, but there was no "sitting back and enjoying the ride" on my part! I simply don't have that option anymore, and god but I'm happy. He and I have a circle going: I do what pleases me, and the things that please me thus far have never failed to please him. I'm delighted because he's enjoying himself. He in turn is happy because I enjoy his pleasure. And it keeps circling around like that. But you see, it's active. I have to take the step to DO something. I can't, won't, and don't expect him to do it all.

He can control himself. He can control me. But he's not going to control every single aspect of our relationship, because then there isn't one. I bloody better contribute. That's where I'm at right now...a former 'princess on the road to recovery.

Quint "Proud Patient of the Esteemed Dr. Glutes"

 

[Lancecastor]

Mea Culpa

Okay Dixi, fair enough...I'll take your reading of that exchange as being accurate, as I surely am biased.

That being said, it appears that I was in the wrong in the Marquis exchange with/about Cym.

Mea culpa.

But I know I'm right about the pron!

Lance

 

[WriterDom]

Re: I would still like to know

why this question was offered up.

:

I thought it was an interesting topic. I had never heard the term "pillow princess" Looking back, I had met women interested more in the perks of submission.

Why does the discussion of "pillow princesses" seem to get your panties in a wad?

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: I would still like to know

I asked questions very politely and they were never addressed until now. I have nothing in a wad, thank you.

Rose

I thought it was an interesting topic. I had never heard the term "pillow princess" Looking back, I had met women interested more in the perks of submission.

Why does the discussion of "pillow princesses" seem to get your panties in a wad?

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Re: Mea Culpa

Okay Dixi, fair enough...I'll take your reading of that exchange as being accurate, as I surely am biased.

That being said, it appears that I was in the wrong in the Marquis exchange with/about Cym.

Mea culpa.

But I know I'm right about the pron!

Lance

Agreed.

dixi

 

[James Blandings]

Re: Re: Re: Comforter Kings & Pillow Princesses

Hi Cym;

"Pron" was not mistyped, nor did I try to "brazen it out". It's internet jargon. The definition link was provided. Trying to characterize it as a dig against You is, as usual, exactly the opposite of what happened....which is your standard stock in trade. Nice try, but once again, you've misrepresented what actually happened. You weren't taking a dig, you were making one. Fuck, but you can be pathetic.

I'd invite those who read Cym regularly to read her posts in the Max Hardcore thread for themselves and make up their own mind as to whether Moderator Cym was making a new BDSM Forum poster feeel welcome or not.

Cheers;
Lance

On this point I agree with Lance. I urge everyone to read Cym's posts in that thread, and when they see that she voiced her opinion without being rude or unwelcoming to Marquis, they will know how much veracity Lance's oft repeated charges carry.

 

[Lancecastor]

Nice try, bucky!

Nice try, buckaroo banzai!

Uh-uh...no way, Jose Whipmeliciano....I like curry as much as the next guy....but my being wrong once doesn't make me wrong forever.

Besides, I'm right about the pron.

Now, as the ever-brilliant KillerMuffin has suggested....go have a look around....and before you judge me, take a look at yourself.


Lance "More than a 1,000 Turds Served!" Castor

On this point I agree with Lance. I urge everyone to read Cym's posts in that thread, and when they see that she voiced her opinion without being rude or unwelcoming to Marquis, they will know how much veracity Lance's oft repeated charges carry.

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: Re: I would still like to know

I think WriterDom's the Answer Man on this one, ADR and Spankabelle....it's his thread.

Lance "I Prefer My Knickers In A Knot" Castor

I asked questions very politely and they were never addressed until now. I have nothing in a wad, thank you.

Rose

 

[spankableBelle]

oh hell...

i just give up...

i tried participating...i tried to give my thoughts...(shrugs)

no matter...it's all good...enjoy ya'll!

belle

 

[NemoAlia]

Thanks for the compliment, Lance! I'll take it ... and pass it on to Quint!

Quint, I know we haven't been formally introduced, but it's always a pleasure to read your words. In this case, I can sympathize with you about "playing landscape." That's exactly the way that I feel, sometimes, and it's what makes me think I have "pillow princess" tendencies. In my world, if my partner's not willing to take a little initiative, I tend to let myself become a sort of shapeless background instead of an active participant.

Maybe this "pillow princess" thing isn't such a character flaw as it seems. Perhaps it's a situational thing, depending on both partners in the relationship. What do you think?

 

[SexyChele]

Simply not sure if I qualify as a "pillow princess". Pretty hard to tell when a Dominant has you bound so you are completley immobile and blindfolded. I mean, what can you do but lay there and "take" it?

Seems to me this sort of question is a "damned if you do, damed if you don't" sort of thing. It's like the person who drinks 4 martinis a day, and some accuses them of being an alcoholic. If the person says no, they are being "defensive". If the person says yes, they are somehow less.

Any answer to this question seems to be a no win situation - unless a sub is willing to say, "Hell yes! I sit back and do absolutely nothing - my Dominant better get his act in gear and make me feel good." Just doesn't make sense to me.

But then, this is another one of those threads that was only meant for Dom/mes to respond to....

 

[zipman]

Simply not sure if I qualify as a "pillow princess". Pretty hard to tell when a Dominant has you bound so you are completley immobile and blindfolded. I mean, what can you do but lay there and "take" it?

Seems to me this sort of question is a "damned if you do, damed if you don't" sort of thing. It's like the person who drinks 4 martinis a day, and some accuses them of being an alcoholic. If the person says no, they are being "defensive". If the person says yes, they are somehow less.

Any answer to this question seems to be a no win situation - unless a sub is willing to say, "Hell yes! I sit back and do absolutely nothing - my Dominant better get his act in gear and make me feel good." Just doesn't make sense to me.

But then, this is another one of those threads that was only meant for Dom/mes to respond to....

SexyChele,

I didn't think that this thread was for either Dom/mes or subs in particular. I think WD just threw it against the wall like pasta to see what would stick. I think there are "pillow princesses" who do just want to lay back and be pleasured, selfishly - and I think that is the key differentiator here. In my opinion, a good sub would be thinking of her Dom/mes pleasure during an encounter - okay, maybe not when she is in subspace, but certainly at other times.

I dated a so-called submissive woman once who was a real princess. She only wanted to lay there and get fucked. I got bored real fast because the psychological aspect of a BDSM relationship were non existant. A sub, in my opinion, gets off on being submissive. I think the woman I described got wet from being lazy - which is a different kink entirely - and not my bag of tea.

 

[Shadowsdream]

My definition of a Pillow Princess is the same one I give for a Do me sub. This is NOT a female versus male sub phenonomen.

Neither are submissives...both have found a new kink and put a great deal of energy into finding someone who will SERVE their kinks.

Neither lays back quietly, passívely or lazily upon the mattress but aggressively pushes themselves onto the Dominant personality of the moment. They don't really care who that Dominant is in most cases but will present a pretty convincing profile to all that cross their path. They work hard to create an image of their perfect submission.

I see no lazyness in Pillow Princesses or Do me subs...just crafty dishonesty. They are transparent if only you look for it...and will not hold up for 60 seconds when they come up against reality.

Of course there is a mirror image to everything is there not?

The I am God or Goddess Dominant personalities are simply the alter version of Pillow Princesses and Do me subs.

 

[Sandia]

Re: I would still like to know

why this question was offered up.

Why is it important to assign a title or designation to someone?

Why is it important for people to deny that they are a certain title or designation?

Who wants the answers?

To whom is the question being directed?

Who really cares about the answer to this particular thread question? And why?

Is the lack of a response to these questions another way of invalidating them?

I am just an inquiring little pea-brain, don't mind me.....

Rose

ADR, I don't know the answers to your questions.

But you're certainly not a pea-brain, and the questions are not illegitimate.

 

[Hecate]

I do not have THE answer, but my answers only.

Originally posted by A Desert Rose
Re: I would still like to know
why this question was offered up.

I thought it was an interesting topic. I had never heard the term "pillow princess" Looking back, I had met women interested more in the perks of submission.

I think the only question that can be answered by the thread starter (which has been answered some pages ago) is to why he specifically asked... and I do not think he intended any other than general interest as you did with your questions, ADR.

Why is it important to assign a title or designation to someone?

It is not important, it maybe is not helpful at times and it even maybe plain wrong, but... people are that way. We just think in little boxes and cubes and we need to lable things for our own comfort.

Why is it important for people to deny that they are a certain title or designation?

Because the connotations linked to the "title", the "lable" are not nice and we do not want to think about ourselves in un-nice terms?

Who wants the answers?

The person who asked? Those who answered?
(more see below)

To whom is the question being directed?

To the Forum? To everyone who feels like answering?

Would you have felt better if the question had been "Do you believe in the existance of pillow princesses?" without any semi-direct addressing?

Who really cares about the answer to this particular thread question? And why?

I do think this is a fairly intimate question that only each individual member of the forum, should s/he be interested in the topic, can answer (and not really one that is having anything to do with the topic) I can't see why that is of impact to any discussion - besides the fact that I do not usually need any reason for questions besides my simple wish to know *shrugs shoulders*

I personally do not really "care" about the answers but I found the topic of interest - just because it confirmed something I had experienced but didn't have a lable for - oh yes, they are soo comfortable at times those little thingies.

You know, even us Dominants do wonder at times if we have the right concept about the BDSM thing, and coming across that kind of "Do me" sub can irritate and confuse the hell out of us - so why not ask around if there are some around who can explain their concept and perception? Just as you have valid reasons for asking things from us Dominants to better understand what drives us, right?

Is the lack of a response to these questions another way of invalidating them?

I did answer them - some of it was answered a few pages back already ... but I admit I felt kinda silly to type up that answer. I still did it since those seemd to be questions close to your heart.

And there is one simply dynamic of forums - not all questions get answered becasue people just sometimes a) don't have answers or b) do find the question to be too intimate to share their pov with the world.

There is no general "right" to get your questions answered.

To think this has to do anything in particular with the "asker" or the validity of the question is a bit overstretching imo.

Guess what - I have asked and commented on things gazillions of times and not gotten answers and feedback - that didn't change my take on it in any way.

I am just an inquiring little pea-brain, don't mind me.....

Rose

Ohhh - I thought you wanted those questions to be answered - but now, since you think we shouldn't mind you maybe I should just delete my post?

____________________________________

On the topic of Pillow Princesses:

I think I really had a phase when I was one - as I realized this I went Domme.

Kidding aside - I started my BDSM exploration (as I think many females do) as a sub, just to find out that all I really wanted was to be given the sensation I wanted but exactly the way I wanted it to be - not much of a sub there, huh? *winks*

I wanted to basically be spoiled and treated "precious treasure" without putting much into it frmo my side actively. I liked the concept of "being done", without much own "brain power", but I way quickly realized that I had a totally wrong concept here. I actually wanted to be the one to determin what was happening - when and how, but without the responsibility of setting it up myself.

I figured out that if I wanted things to be done to me my way I had to tell the "doer" what I wanted exactly to be done - s/he needed to comply to perfection and voilà... is this a Domme or what?

So yes, think I was a pillow princess (even though I think only for the briefest time *lol*). But I figure had someone confronted me with that term back then I would have gone into furious denial.

Now - do I head over and state on the matress mistress thread that I have come a long way since?

 

[lorddragonwolf]

Re: It almost sounds like the start of a 12 step group.

Hello, my name is ____________ and I'm a pillow princess.

Sorry, WD, couldn't resist. Carry on with your thread.

To answer your question, I don't think I am. However, perhaps I need the objective evaluation of an experienced Dom/me to know for sure.

Is there a cure for this malady if one is diagnosed?

yes several days of intense training for you. after which we will do an evaluation on your progress. but i am sure you are not a "PP".

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: I do not have THE answer, but my answers only.

Hecate, I understand where you are coming from. I too started as a sub, and in my case I jumped right over PP to Domme. It did not take me long to find out I was on the wrong side of the flogger.

I stopped, spent a few eeks re-evaluating how I wanted to spend the rest of my life, and the rest is history!

Eb

I think the only question that can be answered by the thread starter (which has been answered some pages ago) is to why he specifically asked... and I do not think he intended any other than general interest as you did with your questions, ADR.


It is not important, it maybe is not helpful at times and it even maybe plain wrong, but... people are that way. We just think in little boxes and cubes and we need to lable things for our own comfort.


Because the connotations linked to the "title", the "lable" are not nice and we do not want to think about ourselves in un-nice terms?

The person who asked? Those who answered?
(more see below)

To the Forum? To everyone who feels like answering?

Would you have felt better if the question had been "Do you believe in the existance of pillow princesses?" without any semi-direct addressing?

I do think this is a fairly intimate question that only each individual member of the forum, should s/he be interested in the topic, can answer (and not really one that is having anything to do with the topic) I can't see why that is of impact to any discussion - besides the fact that I do not usually need any reason for questions besides my simple wish to know *shrugs shoulders*

I personally do not really "care" about the answers but I found the topic of interest - just because it confirmed something I had experienced but didn't have a lable for - oh yes, they are soo comfortable at times those little thingies.

You know, even us Dominants do wonder at times if we have the right concept about the BDSM thing, and coming across that kind of "Do me" sub can irritate and confuse the hell out of us - so why not ask around if there are some around who can explain their concept and perception? Just as you have valid reasons for asking things from us Dominants to better understand what drives us, right?

I did answer them - some of it was answered a few pages back already ... but I admit I felt kinda silly to type up that answer. I still did it since those seemd to be questions close to your heart.

And there is one simply dynamic of forums - not all questions get answered becasue people just sometimes a) don't have answers or b) do find the question to be too intimate to share their pov with the world.

There is no general "right" to get your questions answered.

To think this has to do anything in particular with the "asker" or the validity of the question is a bit overstretching imo.

Guess what - I have asked and commented on things gazillions of times and not gotten answers and feedback - that didn't change my take on it in any way.



Ohhh - I thought you wanted those questions to be answered - but now, since you think we shouldn't mind you maybe I should just delete my post?

____________________________________

On the topic of Pillow Princesses:

I think I really had a phase when I was one - as I realized this I went Domme.

Kidding aside - I started my BDSM exploration (as I think many females do) as a sub, just to find out that all I really wanted was to be given the sensation I wanted but exactly the way I wanted it to be - not much of a sub there, huh? *winks*

I wanted to basically be spoiled and treated "precious treasure" without putting much into it frmo my side actively. I liked the concept of "being done", without much own "brain power", but I way quickly realized that I had a totally wrong concept here. I actually wanted to be the one to determin what was happening - when and how, but without the responsibility of setting it up myself.

I figured out that if I wanted things to be done to me my way I had to tell the "doer" what I wanted exactly to be done - s/he needed to comply to perfection and voilà... is this a Domme or what?

So yes, think I was a pillow princess (even though I think only for the briefest time *lol*). But I figure had someone confronted me with that term back then I would have gone into furious denial.

Now - do I head over and state on the matress mistress thread that I have come a long way since?

 

[Quint]

Thanks for the compliment, Lance! I'll take it ... and pass it on to Quint!

Quint, I know we haven't been formally introduced, but it's always a pleasure to read your words. In this case, I can sympathize with you about "playing landscape." That's exactly the way that I feel, sometimes, and it's what makes me think I have "pillow princess" tendencies. In my world, if my partner's not willing to take a little initiative, I tend to let myself become a sort of shapeless background instead of an active participant.

Maybe this "pillow princess" thing isn't such a character flaw as it seems. Perhaps it's a situational thing, depending on both partners in the relationship. What do you think?

I find it hard to believe that we haven't crossed beams yet, NemoAlia. Perhaps it's just been tacit respect and agreement thus far? Sounds reasonable to me. Anyway, hi! o)

There is an interesting point I'd like to draw from our two posts: when the "dominant" figure is less Domly than we'd wish, we the submissive tends to be less submissive as well. His apathy begets our apathy. Now isn't THAT something to ponder? When I'm with T and he is totally controlling me, I respond by submitting more, submitting totally, and trying to find new and pleasurable ways of submitting. Doesn't this seem to be the opposite of pillowprincessitude/mattressmastericity, where one partner gives a lot and the other merely receives? I think this is a very nice distinction to make.

It also leads well into the other point you make. I'm unsure if this is a character flaw exactly, because it is so dependent upon the partner as well. I think that "relationship flaw" would be the best way to categorize this, or just simply incompatibility.

So let's apply this to the original question and carry it deeper. If you've had a PP before, are you sure that your dominance was enough to inspire her to greater feats of submission? I'm not saying this is the only cause of PPism, of course; I'm sure that this type of sub exists regardless of the efforts her Dom/me puts forth, and in that case it would be a character flaw--or a Domme in sub's clothing, as it were. Nevertheless, this does bear closer examination. Why was she a Pillow Princess?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Good bump?

 

[NemoAlia]

Oh! The day when Quint and I first introduced ourselves to each other! I love re-reading happy moments like this.

I'm with a Dom now whose overall level of dominance is a constant challenge to me. I find myself almost completely un-tempted to revert to Pillow Princessness.

But did y'all notice that no Dom/me responded to Quint's question:

So let's apply this to the original question and carry it deeper. If you've had a PP before, are you sure that your dominance was enough to inspire her to greater feats of submission? I'm not saying this is the only cause of PPism, of course; I'm sure that this type of sub exists regardless of the efforts her Dom/me puts forth, and in that case it would be a character flaw--or a Domme in sub's clothing, as it were. Nevertheless, this does bear closer examination. Why was she a Pillow Princess?

 

[Emma_Ray_Garrett]

That's a really interesting question. I can't say I've had a PP, but there have been a few of my subs who were so needy that I had to remove them from my presence. My sub is there to please me, to be my whipping boy, my bitch(per se), my outlet for the sadism I enjoy and the masochism I inflict, both on them and myself. When I have had experience with a male sub who just laid there and took it, I found myself losing interest. I don't want a pain slut, for lack of a better term, I want a sub who NEEDS to submit. And just taking it isn't submitting. I'll agree with Lance's post very early in this thread that this sort of thing can be treated but not cured. Intense sessions with those subs did garner the yielding I wanted, but I my joy was somehow tainted.

Does that make any sense?

 

[chun_gong]

Good bump?

Very good - it's always nice to see some of the older threads brought to attention. (don't roll your eyes, people!) It's not possible for new peeps, like me, to go find everything!

I've given this a good deal of thought, once wading thru the bickering. I have a very strong personality and am/have been a leader in most things in my life - work, groups, etc. The truth is, that's not who I REALLY am. I need to submit.

Some of you will think I am wrong when I say this - but it is a challenge. It is a very rewarding challenge for me because I want nothing more than to be a good pet for my Master. When he is pleased, then I have done well. In return, I receive a great deal of happiness.

I am looking at submission from an emotional position - a degree of PE - not just in the "bedroom". Could I be a "pillow princess"? Um, I guess (temporarily)...but that's not who I am. Personally speaking, submission is pleasing Master. If he wants to use my body for his pleasure and that requires laying there, okay. However, that's only per his direction.

On the other hand, I do love to be spoiled. I love to feel like a special treasure. For me, though, I want to earn it...

j

 

[a_well_punished_girl]

Interesting topic and it got me thinking. Well, as much as one can think in this intense humidity we have here today. I feel like one of Terry Pratchett's trolls (Discworld book reference, nevermind).
Anyway..I have never heard this term before and I read everyone's different interpretations of it and I took a long look at myself.
There were many times..in the beginning of this journey with Himself that he accused me of picking and choosing...I forget how he put it. It had to do with being situational. He felt that I would submit only when I was in the mood to do so. For example...maybe I wanted a spanking or something to "get off". That's ok for some, but it was not what he wanted. I realised that I did not want it that way either. I do not know if I could have been called a PP, but maybe I was a bit of one. I'll have to ask him what he thinks about it when he gets home.
I have learned, through time and experience, that submission goes much deeper than that (for me). There is a great deal of work involved on both sides...as in any strong and healthy relationship.
I really think that it is a question of psychology more than physical movement or participation. Obviously if I am bound to the bed, I am just going to be laying there...taking whatever he is dishing out. It may not always be pleasurable, though...so it takes my committment and strength not to call out a safe word or beg him to stop. It is his pleasure that I am serving at that moment. My submission is also not something that we confine to sexual activity.
I suppose that being a PP is OK for some, though. Depends on their needs and desires..and of course, the needs and desires of the one they are with.
Through my journeys through the Yahoo chatrooms..in a fruitless search for intelligent conversation...I have found a great number of guys who would love a woman like that. Conversely, I have found many "Dom" guys who are the male equivalent.
To each their own, I guess.

m