are you a slave, submissive or sensualist

[RJMasters]

Ok from left field but firing it home to Richard

I think much of this thread has to do with understanding or a better word is "uncovering" what is a sensualist.

It is hard to arrive I think at where Richard was going with this thread because, people see being sensual as what they feel or do and not so much as who they are. Meaning, they don't get, that being a sensualist is a separate type of person, but part of a person.

I believe what Richard is driving at, is that there is a separate type of person, who is a sensualist. And If I do not miss my guess, it is not looked upon favorable. Let me explain.

A sensualist is a "Romantic". Translated into BDSM terms, it is actually a nilla male or female who role-plays the part of submissive or slave(or Dom/me). Hence the long discussions about the difference of submissive and slaves, in order to bring clarity and definition to what and who "True" submissives and slaves are. I think Richard admires both of these very much so.

However, A sensualist is really a nilla in disguise playing a role in order to get something they want, but when push comes to shove, they are found out for who they are. The question some might ask is why would a nilla man or woman want to roleplay at being a submissive or slave if its not in their nature to do so? Because of the attention and level of commitment a Dom/me is willing to pour into such a person(or vica-versa). They willingly make a trade of to act the part of submissive or slave in order to get all the bennies that come with being owned by a good Dom/me(again, or vica-versa).

The problem with this is...it breaks down.

Example:

A nilla woman or man is lonely and learns about BDSM. They see a true submissive/slave express the joy of being loved and owned by their Dom/me(Master/Mistress) and they long for that in their life. Problem is, they are not really a submissive, but they think they can learn(I am saying this tongue and cheek from the nilla persons point of view). It is true that many things can be learned and even felt to some degree, however, what can't be taught is the pure need to submit. Which means they are willing to play along the romantic adventure as long as they are getting what they want, but when "real submission" is required, they fold like a deck of cards.

I believe the Dom/me equivalent would be called "a player". A nilla man or woman who certainly likes to boss and bully people around and use people, but when it comes to being a true dominant, they also fold like a deck of cards because they have no depth of character and they are only in it for the play. Hence the term "Player".

What I believe this thread is really about is exposing the truth about sensualists. We all as a community recognize the negative about the "players" that exist, yet never really acknowledge the submissive equivalent in the same way. There appears to be a lazadaical attitude when it comes to this. What is sad, is how it really tears at the beauty of what it means to be a "true" submissive or slave.

I think...that is why many of the real submissive and slaves who have posted to this thread may not get what it really being asked here, as in all honesty, it just would not occur to them to think vanilla. Though I am sure they can understand this, it is because they were asked how do you see yourself? And from that perspective can only express the truth of being who they are, and there is nothing "romanticized or made up" about it. What made it further confusing is that a real submissive or slave is very sensual and so this added to the confusion of what I think Richard is ultimately trying to point out here.

And so I believe Richard is saying that there are terms we use to recognize types of people. Two such terms are submissive and slave and each have subtle distinctions of their own, but they both represent two types of people which are the "Real Mcoy" and sensuality is very much part of who they are.

But then there is another term which represents a group of people who are romantic, actors and players and they are called sensualists.

As Richard said:

Those who do not understand the definition of words and their epistemology are bound to be enslaved and enslave others with there stupidity/ignorance(added).

Is it possible to be a sensualist with good intentions...yes. Many vanilla people would give anything to have the kind of true connection that exists between a real Dom/me Master/Mistress and their submissive or slave. The problem is the pain they bring when a sensualist dupes a real PLY/ply.

There is honor, respect and dignity in being a true submissive/slave as they truly are 1/2 of a whole.

There is honor, respect and dignity in being a true Dominant as they are truly 1/2 of a whole.

There is NO honor, respect or dignity in deceiving other people by being a player, actor/ress or being a sensualist.

When I think of KC, Catalina, malcah, graceanne, ADR, and SkyBluAngelEyes, I am sure they can better define than me weather they are a submissive or a slave, but one thing they all have in common is that they are the real deal and none are just play acting. So its really not a matter of splitting hairs on definitions or labels(which I think derailed this thread a bit) other than to benifit from the discussion of what does a "real submissive or slave" look and act like. Take a peek at the list above and there are the living examples which I have come to respect and admire on this forum. There are many more but I think the list above makes my point well enough.

As for Dom/mes Master/Mistresess Winston, Shadowsdream, Netzach, MW, WiterDom, FungiUg, Raven, Betticus and AA..etc...I am sure that all may have a differnt PLY yet the issue is not defining what label, but the "Realness" of who these people are. They are not players, actors or sensualists.

What do all of these PLY/plys I mentioned above have in common? They are all very sensual people, that is not to say they are sensulaists.

I believe more than anything else what this thread is about, is how "sensualists" disguise themselves appearing to mimmic the sensual behavior of those who I have mentioned, in order to taste in that special exchange which happens, but they end up shattering the confidence and hurting the true PYL/ply when a true test of Dominance or submission is called for and they can not answer the call, but run away leaving broken people in their wake.

Maybe Richard can let me know if I am on target.

~peace~

 

[RJMasters]

adding this comment

I did want to add, that not all sensualists mean to be decieving. I think many in fact have good intentions and may even be a little decieved themselves, and it is not till later on they discover the truth about themselves. Its the ones who ignore this truth who then become players in my opinion.

Just wanted to add that.

 

[h_i_s]

i am a submissive woman, yet, only for the One who is known to me as Master. i'd have to say i am 'bordering' on slave in that although W/we discuss my wants, needs, and desires ... i am expected to comply in pleasing Him, regardless ... and, i do (Sometimes i have felt that i've not been successful in being ABLE to do as requested inititally, yet, i always try my best and this pleases Him. Eventually, with a bit of patient pushing from Him, i am capable of succeeding.).

sen·su·al (snsh-l)
adj.

Relating to or affecting any of the senses or a sense organ; sensory.
Of, relating to, given to, or providing gratification of the physical and especially the sexual appetites.


Yes, i am quite sensual & and enjoy serving my Master's sensual desires. The following quote has always been included in my profiles and signatures:
i am a sensual being enjoying a human experience.

P.S. my sever affliction with typoism tends to flare up badly when using the PC too early on Sunday mornings.

 

[DarkhairedLady]

this thread has made me think deeply

and thanks to all that put in thier thoughts.

from how RJMasters put it, or as far as i can understand it, i guess i would fall under being a sensualist.

 

[Netzach]

I'm going to say I'm unapologetically a fetishist and as into the "sensations" I create in an SM exchange as I am into any binding notions of servitude or submission or what have you. I'm content to get a lot of different things out of exchanges with different people.

I think this idea that there are "impostors" treading on our sacred ground is basically, dookie, or a largely online fabricated mound of dookie.

If someone has the balls to get up, get dressed, go out to a munch, go to a conference, make the leap it takes to meet and find other people WITHIN a despised sexual minority, I'm not going to be the litmus test of whether they are "real" or not. I will meet and assess each of those people based on the kind of person they are.

If they are an asshole, I really don't care if they have 45 years as a Dom, sucked John Preston's dick, have 15 collared slaves and know all the right protocol -- they are still an asshole.

If they are basically a swinger who likes to spank peroidically and they are the kind of person who gives money to those who need it anonymously, walks a confident walk, holds themselves with some humility and good humor, and treats new friends with openness and good will, I'm going to befriend them, and screw anyone who's going to say they only have "pretenses" to the lifestyle.

 

[RJMasters]

I'm going to say I'm unapologetically a fetishist and as into the "sensations" I create in an SM exchange as I am into any binding notions of servitude or submission or what have you. I'm content to get a lot of different things out of exchanges with different people.

I think this idea that there are "impostors" treading on our sacred ground is basically, dookie, or a largely online fabricated mound of dookie.

If someone has the balls to get up, get dressed, go out to a munch, go to a conference, make the leap it takes to meet and find other people WITHIN a despised sexual minority, I'm not going to be the litmus test of whether they are "real" or not. I will meet and assess each of those people based on the kind of person they are.

If they are an asshole, I really don't care if they have 45 years as a Dom, sucked John Preston's dick, have 15 collared slaves and know all the right protocol -- they are still an asshole.

If they are basically a swinger who likes to spank peroidically and they are the kind of person who gives money to those who need it anonymously, walks a confident walk, holds themselves with some humility and good humor, and treats new friends with openness and good will, I'm going to befriend them, and screw anyone who's going to say they only have "pretenses" to the lifestyle.

Since you process everything from the off-line point of view, I can see where what you say is true, because anyone willing to get up and go DO, is prolly not an actor/ress.

In RL you do get the chance to do your litmus test by seeing them in action and what type of person they are.

My post about sensualists is more pointed to online, where it is easy to say one thing and be another. But as I recall, isn't that the reason you have posted a number of times you don't put much stock in online. If it isn't RL, then it isn't real, right?

The condescending picture you painted of what I wrote is pretty selfish IMO. It does provide some possible answers for those who DO put a lot of stock into online relationships. It also is a good chance for someone to take a moment and do a little self-examination, which I think is always a good thing to do. Maybe it might allow someone to see that playing a submissive online is really not the same as being one in real life and could help prevent problems and pain down the road.

Nothing I wrote in my post should make anyone being honest with who they are, question the realness in how they see themselves.

Everyday on this forum we encourage honesty, and warn new people to be careful when the Internet is their play-ground. My thread does nothing more than say this and warn that there are those who are not what they appear to be. I am sorry that doesn't apply to your Real Life experience, but it does for a lot of people's online experience.

I think your response is a bit unfair, albeit accurate from an off-0line point of view. The dookie you refer to, is a "real issue" that many of us deal with day in and day out basis in relationships “online”. It may not translate well into real life, but it does exist in the online world weather you chose to admit it or not. And since this is an online forum for BDSM, it is the perfect place to discuss the possible reasons for why "this" or "that" happens online and people get hurt because of it.

My opinion is that some people for whatever reason, call it loneliness, sexual drive, whatever willingly take on a role as a Dom/me or submissive "online" to get what they want. Which sucks for the person, who isn't playing a role, but is being who they are, and honestly trying to find a person they could possible hook-up with in RL. When it is found out that the person isn’t who they claim to be, it causes the same pain to a person as it does when you are betrayed in real life.

That's a far cry from me trying to defend some elitist position of some sacred ground. However, I will confess that I do hold titles like Dom/Domme/Submissive/Slave/Master/Mistress in high regard, mostly out of respect for the people I know that own them. And if it makes me an asshole, that I get upset when someone cheapens the meaning of one them titles, then so be it.

I certainly don’t have the right to point a finger and say this one is and this one isn’t, but I didn’t do that. I said a person needs to be honest with themselves and they are the only ones who know for sure if they are or are not a Dom/Domme/Submissive/Slave/Master/Mistress. If someone wants to ask me what is a submissive, I can only tell them what my opinion of one is. The best way I know how to do that, is often point out someone and say there is a good example right there. You want to know…then go read all of their posts and you will get a good idea. I am sorry if you were offended for including your name into my post. I still would point to you as a good example of what a real no-nonsense Domme looks like, but since you have made it clear you are a fetishist, I will note that for the future.

 

[Netzach]

Please don't sense it as a reply only to your reply and somehow relevant to the points you make, I'm talking about where I see the thread and countless threads I've read like it going, it's just a general beef with the whole argument.

Your points are somewhat valid as to it being useful to those who are primarily online in their BDSM interests, and perhaps my tone was unnecessarily strident...but consider this - would it hurt if people evaluated each other online via their actions and not via some characterization "she's "real" she's "fake." Isn't is maybe more challenging but better to keep to the common sense realization that what you hear on line is not necessarily what you get offline? All the time, with everyone?

I don't like the catagorizations of "impostors" and "predators" because I find that most problematic people actually seamlessly present themselves as unproblematic online. People are so busy looking for the impostor in our community who just wants to get laid that they overlook the neurotic and lacking people in our midst who are a danger to each other.

What I see happening is that we put so much of an emphasis on experience, longevity, and know-how that those without are tempted to fake those things rather than say "I don't really know where I fit in here" or "really I just like some spanking with my sex" as though those things are somehow a crime.

I blame romanticization of the Dominant, partly.

Why can't I be a fetishist *and* a Domme? Why can't I enjoy no-holds barred casual sadistic glee with a hot stranger in a club *and* service and respect from my personal boy or girl?

 

[exquisite_pet]

i am a slave. i have given all control of my life to my Master. It was the last free will choice i made. For me being owned makes me feel complete. Just because i made the choice to be a slave doesn't mean i can't live life on my own. i did for many years till i found the right One to give my submission to. This is just what makes me happy.

 

[RJMasters]

Please don't sense it as a reply only to your reply and somehow relevant to the points you make, I'm talking about where I see the thread and countless threads I've read like it going, it's just a general beef with the whole argument.

Sorry for slipping into defensive mode on ya.


Your points are somewhat valid as to it being useful to those who are primarily online in their BDSM interests, and perhaps my tone was unnecessarily strident...but consider this - would it hurt if people evaluated each other online via their actions and not via some characterization "she's "real" she's "fake." Isn't is maybe more challenging but better to keep to the common sense realization that what you hear on line is not necessarily what you get offline? All the time, with everyone?

I don't like the catagorizations of "impostors" and "predators" because I find that most problematic people actually seamlessly present themselves as unproblematic online. People are so busy looking for the impostor in our community who just wants to get laid that they overlook the neurotic and lacking people in our midst who are a danger to each other.

I'm not only listening, but I hear ya too N.


What I see happening is that we put so much of an emphasis on experience, longevity, and know-how that those without are tempted to fake those things rather than say "I don't really know where I fit in here" or "really I just like some spanking with my sex" as though those things are somehow a crime.

See here is where you and me really agree on this. What I want is just honesty. It would be nice to hear someone say for a change, hey I am not really submissive, but I want my ass spanked and for an hour enjoy a good pounding with that tool you got there. Instead of pretending to be submissive, to get their ass spanked and get pounded on for an hour.

Where you and me might differ(I don't know), is that I am not interested in spanking someone's ass and pounding them for an hour, unless there is some real power exchange, as that is what rings my bell. I view S&M as only a tool or means to accomplish my objectives. Though I do find pleasure in S&M, by itself, it has little attraction. It is the same with B&D.

I guess for me there is a clear distinction between BD/DS/SM. Though I love aspects of all three, D/s is my core. For me its like the difference in just Topping or being someone's specific Dom/Master. The amount of emotional and mental energy I put in to getting to know someone else's heart and mind is temendious.

I like the occasional BDSM twinkie, but I much rather have a 7 course submissive meal.




I blame romanticization of the Dominant, partly.

I also blame the romanticization of the submissive, partly.



[/B]
Why can't I be a fetishist *and* a Domme? Why can't I enjoy no-holds barred casual sadistic glee with a hot stranger in a club *and* service and respect from my personal boy or girl? [/B]

You probably can, I can't. lol well duh I can't be a Domme no matter how hard I try to make that corset fit... I am sure there is freedom to do this for anyone who wants too, yet I am not wired like this so its not an option for me.

Again, sorry for being defensive.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Does it really make any difference? I come to this board and get loads of useful information. But it seems strange to me to see so many trying to jump thru the right kinds of hoops in order to 'qualify' for a certain label. I came here thinking I was submissive. Read a bit more and thought I was merely a masochist. Read some more and thought maybe I'm just a sensualist. Now I'm reading that sensualists are just 'players'. Geesh - you guys - make up YOUR minds! lol

All I know is there is something I need, beyond vanilla sex, to feel complete. I do not have any desires to become 'owned', to take it to a 24/7 kind of lifestyle. But occasionally I NEED to be tied up, bound, flogged, used, humiliated. It releases something in me. It completes me. But several times a month is enough for me. Fortunately my Dom is satisfied with that as well. If that means we are both just 'players' and not "REAL" D/s - then so be it. The labels game seems like a never-ending story. *sigh***

 

[RJMasters]

All I know is there is something I need, beyond vanilla sex, to feel complete. I do not have any desires to become 'owned', to take it to a 24/7 kind of lifestyle. But occasionally I NEED to be tied up, bound, flogged, used, humiliated. It releases something in me. It completes me. But several times a month is enough for me. Fortunately my Dom is satisfied with that as well.

Since....None of the above is deceptive...in what way does that give you the idea that you are a sensualist?

A sensualist is an actor.... I do not get from your post that you are an actor? Or a person who is deceiving anyone. Even if it was only 1 time a year, as long as you were honest about it.

And nothing in my post says you have to jump through this hoop X amount of times in order to measure up....It just says, be honest.

Since your doing that? I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Moonlust]

The labels game seems like a never-ending story. *sigh***

I hear you. Since I've decided to make an effort to post, I've found that I'm having a bit of trouble fitting in here. Just because I don't carry a bullwhip with me at all times doesn't mean I'm not a person with dominant tendencies. I don't want to limit myself to things 1,2 and 3 and find myself achieving threadkiller status frequently...what to do?

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Since....None of the above is deceptive...in what way does that give you the idea that you are a sensualist?
A sensualist is an actor.... I do not get from your post that you are an actor? Or a person who is deceiving anyone. Even if it was only 1 time a year, as long as you were honest about it.
And nothing in my post says you have to jump through this hoop X amount of times in order to measure up....It just says, be honest.
Since your doing that? I don't see what the problem is.

Well I wasn't responding to just your post- but to the thread in general. If you'll look back to the first several pages there were different ideas as to what 'sensualist' was.

It just that there is more experience and knowledge in this group of people than I'll ever know in real life. I'm jealous of so many of you who have figured out how to get just what you need in life. But then there's this general, ongoing, 'nit picking' as to labels and what they mean and who fits in. Its very confusing for newbies (wannabes?) trying to figure all this stuff out! I don't mean to complain - just being grumpy I guess.

 

[Netzach]

if you are playing with your person 3-4 times a month contragtulations....that is 2-4 more times than I played with my "lifestyle submissive" fiance, this month. Moving sux!

Limit your confusion, do what feeds you, what you need to feel sane and whole and on keel, and enjoy.

 

[RJMasters]

Limit your confusion, do what feeds you, what you need to feel sane and whole and on keel, and enjoy.

Ditto...

 

[catalina_francisco]

if you are playing with your person 3-4 times a month contragtulations....that is 2-4 more times than I played with my "lifestyle submissive" fiance, this month. Moving sux!

LOL, now N we have discovered there are so many interesting ways to incorporate play into renovating and moving, especially when it begins to get to the 'moving sux' moments!!

Catalina

 

[Richard49]

Does it really make any difference? I come to this board and get loads of useful information. But it seems strange to me to see so many trying to jump thru the right kinds of hoops in order to 'qualify' for a certain label. I came here thinking I was submissive. Read a bit more and thought I was merely a masochist. Read some more and thought maybe I'm just a sensualist. Now I'm reading that sensualists are just 'players'. Geesh - you guys - make up YOUR minds! lol

yes it does

If I appraoch you believing you are into D/s and I am into D/s
and it turns out you are into BDSM...the sensualist part only ...
one of us is going to get hurt weather the raltionship is online only or RT.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

if you are playing with your person 3-4 times a month contragtulations....that is 2-4 more times than I played with my "lifestyle submissive" fiance, this month. Moving sux!

Limit your confusion, do what feeds you, what you need to feel sane and whole and on keel, and enjoy.

well - more like 2-3 - but I'm not complaining! (moving DOES suck - sorry!)

 

[crazybbwgirl]

yes it does

If I appraoch you believing you are into D/s and I am into D/s
and it turns out you are into BDSM...the sensualist part only ...
one of us is going to get hurt weather the raltionship is online only or RT.

This is very true. And all the more reason to take the time to really talk to any prospective 'partner'. I'm learning that much - slowly!