are you a slave, submissive or sensualist

[shyly curious]

if you got this than you have made NO attempt to know me
I am tired of being resposible for you feelings and thoughts
If I had wanted you out of here
I would have be very clear

I think you have taken this tread
and for whatever reason
and have used it for your own agends
so be it ................................

(except I can not figure out your agenda)

don't let the door in you in the ass on the way out

shaking my head

this is another exapmle of what I have tired to say on the resonsiblity thread

I'm amazed, I came here, I tried to query things in a respectful way, seek info and learn. I have repeatedly thanked you for bearing with my questions.

Yet at many a turn you have issued a bitter retort. (both to me and to others).

Yes the BDSM world has changed, some words and phrases have evolved as the community has evolved. Sorry you find that so hard to accept.

A hint, if you are prone to typos, maybe you should check and fix them before hitting the reply key. Might help the rest of us understand what you are trying to express.

Maybe the fact that you cannot figure out my agenda might be a clue that I have no agenda?

And nowhere did I ever give you rights or responsibilities for my thoughts or feelings. What an arrogant thing for you to say.

Go back Richard, go back to the fair you talked about on your Bionic Dom thread, oogle the young girls in their short skirts, eat your fries and oogle some more.

Gawd forbid someone actually try to understand your opinion or seek clarification of your words!! oops, that would mean YOU have to take responsibility wouldn't it Richard.


[/rant]

 

[Shadowsdream]

*submit* means only one thing to Me....to give of oneself in all ways that the one who *Dominates* requires. To do so graciously with love and committment through the need to serve adds the beauty to why I find submissives to be the most courageous and incredible people on earth.

D/s means all of the above to Me.

It has little to do with the ability or desire to take pain or to be kept on the oragasmic cycle of fucking and sucking through physical means. BDSM covers that concept for Me.

A Top and a bottom live comfortably in the BDSM world but a Mistress or Master will desire as much D/s as BDSM and many require no BDSM at all.

Richard, We of the old school do see the differentials yet can also be anal about where the definitions now differ from the clear cut lines they once walked. I, like You, look past the *i am submissive* declaration for clarity.

Throughout the D/s is a current of sensuality but sensuality does not run it. It enhances.


MHO only of course.

 

[shyly curious]

*submit* means only one thing to Me....to give of oneself in all ways that the one who *Dominates* requires. To do so graciously with love and committment through the need to serve adds the beauty to why I find submissives to be the most courageous and incredible people on earth.

D/s means all of the above to Me.

It has little to do with the ability or desire to take pain or to be kept on the oragasmic cycle of fucking and sucking through physical means. BDSM covers that concept for Me.

A Top and a bottom live comfortably in the BDSM world but a Mistress or Master will desire as much D/s as BDSM and many require no BDSM at all.

Richard, We of the old school do see the differentials yet can also be anal about where the definitions now differ from the clear cut lines they once walked. I, like You, look past the *i am submissive* declaration for clarity.

Throughout the D/s is a current of sensuality but sensuality does not run it. It enhances.


MHO only of course.

and very well said too, thank you.

 

[Shadowsdream]

and very well said too, thank you.

~~smile~~ My pleasure

 

[bluntforcemama]

your rage is adding nothing here
exclusive club?
ya in a way

I am looking to:
1) understand the changes in the language and culture of the "lifestyle" that seems to have happened without me being awear

2) to find that language so that if I am talking to someone and they say they are a submisssive I have some concept of who they are saying they are without a 100 questions

Yes english is my primary language
If you had taken the time to know me you would find out
from here on these boards and verfiable on othe internet places
that I was once famous, media whore, a talk show host, a DJ. a published author etc

Again what I do not see in your defintions
is that the subsmiive or slave recieves internal pleasure from just serving ...........................

also you again use the word play
unless you have a different picture of the word
it lends to a picture in my mind of sensual BDSM not D/s

kc has been kind enough ot post a couple urls that seem ot help clarify my attempt to understand

Sweeting, how can you accuse people of misunderstanding you, and do the same thing to others? I'm not angry with you. I could really care less about your past accomplishments. I am not interested in getting to know you, either. I've found your posts to be only rude and narrow-minded. Sensual BDSM... nope, not me. I do not appreciate the pain. I don't mind the spanking, but that's my limit. I yearn to serve my mate-- the lucky man. Don't assume that I am ignorant of the BDSM and D/s life style. I have done my share of reading and research. I choose to be who I am and accept certain areas of my psyche as such. Turning your view of what BDSM or D/s should be into an exclusive "club" reminds me of certain religions, and that's pretty scary. Your view and attempt to create a single-minded understanding of something so complex and multifaceted is depraved, shallow, and petty.

 

[Richard49]

*submit* means only one thing to Me....to give of oneself in all ways that the one who *Dominates* requires. To do so graciously with love and committment through the need to serve adds the beauty to why I find submissives to be the most courageous and incredible people on earth.

D/s means all of the above to Me.

It has little to do with the ability or desire to take pain or to be kept on the oragasmic cycle of fucking and sucking through physical means. BDSM covers that concept for Me.

A Top and a bottom live comfortably in the BDSM world but a Mistress or Master will desire as much D/s as BDSM and many require no BDSM at all.

Richard, We of the old school do see the differentials yet can also be anal about where the definitions now differ from the clear cut lines they once walked. I, like You, look past the *i am submissive* declaration for clarity.

Throughout the D/s is a current of sensuality but sensuality does not run it. It enhances.


MHO only of course.

Thank you for sharing

old school and for me old <smile>

BTW your back to school thread has brought many smiles and memories

I am not trying ot be anal
or to impose my defintion on anyone
as I posted above I am only trying for an exclusive club in the sense
of when i talk to someone and they claim such and such a lable/title etc I know who they are without the 100 question
1) I am tired of asking them
2) some have found me insulting in the askiing

I have recently entered into two "communications relationships" where one presented themselves as a submissve and were totally a pain snsualist (pain slut I guess is the new word)

the other openly admited they were a sensualist and wanted to move forward into D/s

As to the lifestyle changing and the terms changing
prehaps
IMHO I thnk we have allowed serveral ciltures/commiunbites to merge that perhaps are like oil and water

I started this thread as a place for me to learn what others are thinking/feeling/defining ...

some like you have offered that
others offered only argument and anger
perhaps because they are truly wannbes
perhaps our cultural language are so far apart
that we can not find a shared and mutal language

I know for me
that my dominate part and top part often meet
but also often do not
and that to top to top
does not take me to Dom space
and from what I have seen
to bottom to bottom does not take a sub to sub space

but than that is my reality
and may not be someone elses

again thank you for sharing

and it is nice to see some else from the old school
who is so young

 

[bluntforcemama]

some like you have offered that
others offered only argument and anger
perhaps because they are truly wannbes
perhaps our cultural alngues are so far apart
that we can not find a shared and mutal language

Wannabes? If I could be vanilla, I would. It would have saved my marriage, my career, and my life as I knew it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Perhaps the reason that Richard has met with much frustration in his search for true subs is that nobody knows what the @#$% he is talking about. I doubt if he knows himself.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Topping only brings Me momentary pleasure and I only Top in a club scene or for other Dominants that ask Me to scene with their toys.

 

[graceanne]

I am not trying ot be anal
or to impose my defintion on anyone
as I posted above I am only trying for an exclusive club in the sense
of when i talk to someone and they claim such and such a lable/title etc I know who they are without the 100 question

Ok, if you think you're gonna be able to skip asking the questions, I think you're SOL. What I've noticed in this thread is that no one has the same definition for anything. What one person considers a submissive another person considers a slave or a 'sensualist'. There are no hard guidlines, it depends on the person.

 

[Betticus]

You can't put a hard and fast label on something like this since everyone is different. That is why the checklists come out. Why the questions have to be asked. Why you have to interview and get to know exactly what the other person wants/needs.

 

[shyly curious]

Wannabes? If I could be vanilla, I would. It would have saved my marriage, my career, and my life as I knew it.

^^^^^^^^
ditto

 

[Richard49]

As Ayn Rand so many times said it
those who do not understand the defintion of words and their epistomoglogy are bound to be iensalved and ensalve others with there stupitity

and those that do not understand th power of words are self abused and bound to be slaves to their own minds

 

[shyly curious]

You can't put a hard and fast label on something like this since everyone is different. That is why the checklists come out. Why the questions have to be asked. Why you have to interview and get to know exactly what the other person wants/needs.

Since there seems to be no agreement on labels or definitions, it makes it crucial and apparent that both the "Dom" and the "sub" need to ask questions to make sure the "relationship" they might enter into is mutually desirable. It would be better, imho, to ask and seek clarification before hand then to find oneself in an unrewarding and potentially dangerous situation.

peace to all,

 

[graceanne]

As Ayn Rand so many times said it
those who do not understand the defintion of words and their epistomoglogy are bound to be iensalved and ensalve others with there stupitity

and those that do not understand th power of words are self abused and bound to be slaves to their own minds

The definition is different for every person. That's what I was saying. I know my definition, but my definition is not someone else's definition. You can't clump people into a group, it doesn't work. Everyone is different, unique, and so their needs and beliefs anddefinitions are different. *rolls eyes*

 

[Kajira Callista]

The definition is different for every person. That's what I was saying. I know my definition, but my definition is not someone else's definition. You can't clump people into a group, it doesn't work. Everyone is different, unique, and so their needs and beliefs anddefinitions are different. *rolls eyes*

I think what Richard was looking for was the same basic thread that binds us. He knows that everyones outlook on this is different but wanted to see if the base is the same for all. (if i am wrong please let me know)

 

[Richard49]

delete

 

[Richard49]

I think what Richard was looking for was the same basic thread that binds us. He knows that everyones outlook on this is different but wanted to see if the base is the same for all. (if i am wrong please let me know)

you are right
and are an intelligent person

I am leaving
so it makes no difference now

 

[bluntforcemama]

As Ayn Rand so many times said it:
Those who do not understand the defintion of words and their epistomoglogy are bound to be enslaved and enslave others with there stupidity.

And those that do not understand the power of words are self-abused and bound to be slaves to their own minds.

Okay, forgive me for editing your post as I quote it. Epistomolgy, the science of knowledge, was a tool to reach objectivism, which holds that all human knowledge is reached through reason, and the human mental faculty of understanding the world abstractly and logically. The ability to grasp reality in the form of abstract concepts and principles is the essence of reason as a human capacity. So basically, she was saying that our own perception is our own reality, which also means that another's reality cannot be forced upon us, which I am led to believe is what you're trying to accomplish. I don't believe that your coy excuse for understanding is blinding the masses as you hoped.

 

[Betticus]

I get it.

So in essence all men have penises. Penii.. hahhahh

But if you line up a hundred naked men and they are being looked over by a thousand women. Not all of the women will agree that they all are men.

 

[shyly curious]

I think what Richard was looking for was the same basic thread that binds us. He knows that everyones outlook on this is different but wanted to see if the base is the same for all. (if i am wrong please let me know)

If the "base" you speak of is the three words, Submissive, Slave, Sensualist, and there is no agreed definative absolute definition of those three words, how can the base be the same for all?

I think the thread that binds us is the need / pleasure that power exchange (on some level) affords each of us. Whatever the flavor, whatever the word used.

 

[SkyBluAngelEyes]

Hi Richard.

I've read this thread, yet I have yet to respond. It seems that not one person on this thread has the same definition to the same word.

I myself can float between my definition of slave and sub. I am totally at His mercy, yet, there are certain aspects of D/s or BDSM I don't care for. Maybe that is being a bit of a cafeteria sub or slave. I don't want it all, but I want to pick and choose what I want to do. I have my limits that I will *not* go over.

My definition: Sub and slave are sometimes used interchangeably by me. I’m sure that is incorrect, but that’s just the way it is.

I guess it turns out I’m not the only one that defines it the same way.

Slave: A person who gives the control to another person (Dom/me, Top)
Sometimes used the same way as the term sub, some people distinguish a sub from a slave by pointing out that a slave doesn't have the possibility to chose her/his destiny.

Submissive: A person who gives the control to another person (Dom/me, Top)

BDSM D/s dictionary

Richard, I've seen a lot of temper fly back and forth between you and the posters.

Perhaps you are searching for the perfect person that fits your definition. I’m not going to presume. If that is so, I do wish you well. Please, take everyone’s definitions for what they meant by them. Shyly Curious meant no harm. S/He was only seeking clarification. I felt your tone was un-called for.

Remember, some of us have been out of the BDSM-D/s world for a while or else they are new to the feelings that they have been suppressing.

Just my own $.02

 

[catalina_francisco]

Good topic...just came at the wrong time for me initially as I was in Oz and my mind was far from focusing well.
It is true, the words have for many lost the original meanings, as have many in the english language. I think in part it is a sign of the times where it is not necessarily seen as admirable to try your best, succeed, be precise in definitions, nor be overly serious about anything. Not sure I understand why it has become this way, but I have theories on the general changes...but that is not for here.

For us, we tend to be more in tune with the older meanings, that definement which separates the roles and terms in preference to a homogenous understanding...that being said, we also realise it is not how many think or wish to be defined so have come to ask the 20 or however many questions it takes to get an idea of where people are coming from...or observe when time permits.

I would definately say we both love the sensualist delights, though they are secondary to our Master/ slave roles, often sporadic in their enjoyment and indulgence. For me, slave was the only way I could imagine living. It didn't mean a submitting to every male or dominant person who crossed my path, but the submission and service to one. I played and experimented with others during my search, but I was clear that was all it was until I found the one who would own me. I have surrended all my rights and limits to his choices and will, and accepted it will be a lifetime role. I do not see the role of slave as being a weak person who does it because they cannot run their own life. In fact it is because of the traumas and dificulties I have endured in life, and the ability I have had to survive and control my life, that has allowed me the freedom to willingly surrender myself so completely and without questions and wondering 'what if'.

Submissive to me is one who submits, but retains their limits as they see fit, has rights, can walk if things go wrong according to them. I do not see a submissive as someone who necessarily has a submissive character or acts passively...I think that is a different area and does not define the roles of who will be submissive and who will be Dominant as such. I have known some great passivists who have made fantastic and strong Dominants. I also do not see someone who submits to anyone and everyone, falls at the feet of every person who says they are a Dominant, or feigns adoration for anyone identifying as Dominant, as being a submissive.

The D/s in our lives permeates every aspect. Yes, he gives me the right to have my opinion, think, use my skills in the ways he permits, but the bottom line is if he says no, or makes a decision we do not both agree on, it is his responsibility and right to do that, and I do my best to obey and/or accept. Part of the reason he was attracted to me was because of my strength and my mind, so he feels he would be foolish to now try and eliminatre those qualities in me, instead choosing to utilise them in ways which benefit him and us. The BDSM elements of the relationship are played out when it is convenient, the D/s is an continuous undercurrent of which we are always aware, with or without the whips, bondage, and painplay.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Okay, forgive me for editing your post as I quote it. Epistomolgy, the science of knowledge, was a tool to reach objectivism, which holds that all human knowledge is reached through reason, and the human mental faculty of understanding the world abstractly and logically. The ability to grasp reality in the form of abstract concepts and principles is the essence of reason as a human capacity. So basically, she was saying that our own perception is our own reality, which also means that another's reality cannot be forced upon us, which I am led to believe is what you're trying to accomplish. I don't believe that your coy excuse for understanding is blinding the masses as you hoped.

Why can I not see Dagny Taggart going "am I a masosub or an alpha sub, or a sensualist, or an owned Dominant slave" on a list like this.

That book did give me the "just fucking do it" feeling.

 

[Nordic man]

submissive

I would say using the descriptions.. I would say submissive