catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 18,730
Pure said:
So since I am an internet security consultant and you are on on the Internet does this make you my Slut?
Francisco.
Ask The Master
- Thread starter rosco rathbone
- Start date
So since I am an internet security consultant and you are on on the Internet does this make you my Slut?
Francisco.
Saint_Sinner
Really Experienced
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2004
- Posts
- 157
Response to pure
I wish I didn't understand the fact that all control is an illusion. I understand that we are not in control of our own lives. No matter how dominant a person is, how in control, one cannot have a single iota of control over the way their life ends. In order to function as healthy and happy humans, we have to at least ignore the fact that our lives are out of control (except in the case of a suicide, but to me that is unthinkable). So why do I want what I want? Why do we as dominants want what we want? What are we fighting for or against? In what way does having control (being given control) help ease the mind?
But I digress........
I wish I didn't understand the fact that all control is an illusion. I understand that we are not in control of our own lives. No matter how dominant a person is, how in control, one cannot have a single iota of control over the way their life ends. In order to function as healthy and happy humans, we have to at least ignore the fact that our lives are out of control (except in the case of a suicide, but to me that is unthinkable). So why do I want what I want? Why do we as dominants want what we want? What are we fighting for or against? In what way does having control (being given control) help ease the mind?
But I digress........
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Hi Saint,
Response to pure
I wish I didn't understand the fact that all control is an illusion.
Me too. Who, if anyone, controlled the content of the message you just posted?
I understand that we are not in control of our own lives.
In some cosmic sense, maybe. But who 'controls' whether the laundry gets done?
No matter how dominant a person is, how in control, one cannot have a single iota of control over the way their life ends.
That is a excellent point, if it means no one exercizes power, ultimately, to prevent his or her death.
All power is exercized, as it were, 'uphill', against the grain, against the chaos and entropy of the universe. It's the 'fuck you' of a person facing a firing squad.
Strictly speaking however, what you say is false, about controlling how my life ends. I simply need to get a loaded.45 pistol; to point it at the side of my head, and pull the trigger, and there's 99% chance my life's going to end the way I expected and planned.
Response to pure
I wish I didn't understand the fact that all control is an illusion.
Me too. Who, if anyone, controlled the content of the message you just posted?
I understand that we are not in control of our own lives.
In some cosmic sense, maybe. But who 'controls' whether the laundry gets done?
No matter how dominant a person is, how in control, one cannot have a single iota of control over the way their life ends.
That is a excellent point, if it means no one exercizes power, ultimately, to prevent his or her death.
All power is exercized, as it were, 'uphill', against the grain, against the chaos and entropy of the universe. It's the 'fuck you' of a person facing a firing squad.
Strictly speaking however, what you say is false, about controlling how my life ends. I simply need to get a loaded.45 pistol; to point it at the side of my head, and pull the trigger, and there's 99% chance my life's going to end the way I expected and planned.
i say this hesitantly, but say it just the same
Let me say, i was in therapy for 7 years of my life and taken many courses gaining control on my life i never before had. i refused to enter into any relationship vanilla or otherwise until i had this and my past placed in proper prospective behind me. i also was quite content to live the rest of my life by myself, to paint and write and watch my children grow.
i did not enter into BDSM because i desperately needed it or just needed it period, but because i wanted to. There was a part of me that felt this pull, not because it was different or something new, but a part of who i am and who it allows me to be.
The freedom to step out completely bare, with trust, to seek my deepest and darkest inner desires with the right person
To please and to be completely stripped (voluntarily) of all pretenses, vulnerable, and known inside and out.
To obey, even if it means some things i will not like, but knowing i give this control and relishing in the trust, the caring and nurturing, and to grow and learn from these experiences.
To serve, to see i am pleasing, to see a smile on His face and Him happy.
That i have learnt from a couple past experiences i need to be smart about this in searching the right person, we need to be compatible and He, the same as i must be looking for the same reasons and similar things has in some ways enhanced this journey.
But to say submissives are weak, helpless or need to be submissive in order to survive is a bit stretched in my opinion.
To be submissive is not the key to survival, happiness and living, but more a key to deeper joy, freedom, and sense of being.
This is what i have learnt so far from myself and feelings.
24/7 and TPE are things i have not gone looking for, but what has found me and what He is asking, what i am relinquishing slowly under His guidance and care, when the time is right and the trust for the next step is there. Again, they are not what i need but as i am learning...they are truly beautiful, encompassing, intense, and welcoming. It would and could only be with the right person and i would not do this with just any Dominant/Master.
Am i in control of my life and knowing what i am doing? Yes
Am i aware of the consequences should things go wrong? Yes
Am i able to deal with effectively and efficiently my life alone again? Yes, but it will hurt and there will be a period of grieving and mourning the loss. i feel this already, but still am willing prepared to go this route because of the beauty and joy i feel inside, the flourishing when He smiles or laughs. Vanilla or otherwise, i always enjoyed making people smile and touching their hearts. Being His intensifies these feelings and allows me to step out completely while being encompassed in His care, knowing He would not do anything intentionally to harm me mentally or physically...
and in life, nothing can be 100% sure.
i only speak for myself and what i have learnt so far
taipa
Let me say, i was in therapy for 7 years of my life and taken many courses gaining control on my life i never before had. i refused to enter into any relationship vanilla or otherwise until i had this and my past placed in proper prospective behind me. i also was quite content to live the rest of my life by myself, to paint and write and watch my children grow.
i did not enter into BDSM because i desperately needed it or just needed it period, but because i wanted to. There was a part of me that felt this pull, not because it was different or something new, but a part of who i am and who it allows me to be.
The freedom to step out completely bare, with trust, to seek my deepest and darkest inner desires with the right person
To please and to be completely stripped (voluntarily) of all pretenses, vulnerable, and known inside and out.
To obey, even if it means some things i will not like, but knowing i give this control and relishing in the trust, the caring and nurturing, and to grow and learn from these experiences.
To serve, to see i am pleasing, to see a smile on His face and Him happy.
That i have learnt from a couple past experiences i need to be smart about this in searching the right person, we need to be compatible and He, the same as i must be looking for the same reasons and similar things has in some ways enhanced this journey.
But to say submissives are weak, helpless or need to be submissive in order to survive is a bit stretched in my opinion.
To be submissive is not the key to survival, happiness and living, but more a key to deeper joy, freedom, and sense of being.
This is what i have learnt so far from myself and feelings.
24/7 and TPE are things i have not gone looking for, but what has found me and what He is asking, what i am relinquishing slowly under His guidance and care, when the time is right and the trust for the next step is there. Again, they are not what i need but as i am learning...they are truly beautiful, encompassing, intense, and welcoming. It would and could only be with the right person and i would not do this with just any Dominant/Master.
Am i in control of my life and knowing what i am doing? Yes
Am i aware of the consequences should things go wrong? Yes
Am i able to deal with effectively and efficiently my life alone again? Yes, but it will hurt and there will be a period of grieving and mourning the loss. i feel this already, but still am willing prepared to go this route because of the beauty and joy i feel inside, the flourishing when He smiles or laughs. Vanilla or otherwise, i always enjoyed making people smile and touching their hearts. Being His intensifies these feelings and allows me to step out completely while being encompassed in His care, knowing He would not do anything intentionally to harm me mentally or physically...
and in life, nothing can be 100% sure.
i only speak for myself and what i have learnt so far
taipa
rosco rathbone
1. f3e5 2. g4??
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2002
- Posts
- 42,430
catalina_francisco said:Interesting you see submissives as people who have problems. Does that, and your lamenting the fact over and over, you can't help all the submissives in the world make you a people pleaser? Sounds like it, and not in the empathic sense as much as a desperation to be seen as their saviour and guiding light, even though you seem to feel their submission (without your guidance to correct their problems) is the result of being misguided and in need of someone to help them. If that is so, how can any submissive expect to be respected and valued by you, not to mention guided in an appropriate and responsible manner? IMHO it seems more a recipe for abuse.
Catalina
Catalina, I am a people pleaser. I need to make people happy, especially the subs entrusted to my care.I am a person with a deep sense of responsibility and a desire--quixotic i know--to heal the wrongs of the world.
Of course subs have problems. You, as a person of experience in this scene of ours are the last person that needs to b taught thi lesson. SUbs have problems because this cruel world is not made for them. Subs have problems because of predatory so called masters who seek to talk the talk and thus fill their childish needs at subs expense.
And yes, I am not ashamed to admit that I have a naked need to be a savior and to be a guiding light. I was put here in this world with a strong will, a sense of right and wrong that cannot be deflected, and a knowledge...or spiritual sense...of my place as a master of subs.
The problem as I see it is that my sense of "what is what" is a little bit too clear for some people. A strong-willed man is always a threat; always has been always will be.
Catalina, I have had you in ignore because I find your mono-paragraphs to be unreadable; but I am glad I took a look at that post.
rosco
rosco rathbone
1. f3e5 2. g4??
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2002
- Posts
- 42,430
Re: i say this hesitantly, but say it just the same
Taipa, I wish you best of luck on your journey. I have a different philosophical outlook than you do , at this time, borne of superior experiece, overview and a lot of knowledge of philosophy, sociology and psychology. The birds eye view you might call it.
SUbmissives are NOT weak. Good lord no. I have seen submissives bear emotional loads that would psychically crush the average tough guy man.
Submissives do not need to be mastered to "survive"....but I assure you that they have no hope of finding fulfillment any other way. At best their life will be bitter, cold, and filled with frustration and anxiety. You need only look into your own heart in a moment of silent honesty to realise the truth of what i say.
It simply could not be simpler (LOL). The full fruition of a submissive comes in the gentle and firm arms of a DOMINANT MASTER. I am sorry to report that such are rare.
I do not mean to denigrate your understanding of things as they are, but merely gently wish you the best of luck and highest hopes for fulfilment, after your difficult journey. Feel free to check in any time if you have any questions.
rosco
taipa said:Let me say, i was in therapy for 7 years of my life and taken many courses gaining control on my life i never before had. i refused to enter into any relationship vanilla or otherwise until i had this and my past placed in proper prospective behind me. i also was quite content to live the rest of my life by myself, to paint and write and watch my children grow.
i did not enter into BDSM because i desperately needed it or just needed it period, but because i wanted to. There was a part of me that felt this pull, not because it was different or something new, but a part of who i am and who it allows me to be.
The freedom to step out completely bare, with trust, to seek my deepest and darkest inner desires with the right person
To please and to be completely stripped (voluntarily) of all pretenses, vulnerable, and known inside and out.
To obey, even if it means some things i will not like, but knowing i give this control and relishing in the trust, the caring and nurturing, and to grow and learn from these experiences.
To serve, to see i am pleasing, to see a smile on His face and Him happy.
That i have learnt from a couple past experiences i need to be smart about this in searching the right person, we need to be compatible and He, the same as i must be looking for the same reasons and similar things has in some ways enhanced this journey.
But to say submissives are weak, helpless or need to be submissive in order to survive is a bit stretched in my opinion.
To be submissive is not the key to survival, happiness and living, but more a key to deeper joy, freedom, and sense of being.
This is what i have learnt so far from myself and feelings.
24/7 and TPE are things i have not gone looking for, but what has found me and what He is asking, what i am relinquishing slowly under His guidance and care, when the time is right and the trust for the next step is there. Again, they are not what i need but as i am learning...they are truly beautiful, encompassing, intense, and welcoming. It would and could only be with the right person and i would not do this with just any Dominant/Master.
Am i in control of my life and knowing what i am doing? Yes
Am i aware of the consequences should things go wrong? Yes
Am i able to deal with effectively and efficiently my life alone again? Yes, but it will hurt and there will be a period of grieving and mourning the loss. i feel this already, but still am willing prepared to go this route because of the beauty and joy i feel inside, the flourishing when He smiles or laughs. Vanilla or otherwise, i always enjoyed making people smile and touching their hearts. Being His intensifies these feelings and allows me to step out completely while being encompassed in His care, knowing He would not do anything intentionally to harm me mentally or physically...
and in life, nothing can be 100% sure.
i only speak for myself and what i have learnt so far
taipa
Taipa, I wish you best of luck on your journey. I have a different philosophical outlook than you do , at this time, borne of superior experiece, overview and a lot of knowledge of philosophy, sociology and psychology. The birds eye view you might call it.
SUbmissives are NOT weak. Good lord no. I have seen submissives bear emotional loads that would psychically crush the average tough guy man.
Submissives do not need to be mastered to "survive"....but I assure you that they have no hope of finding fulfillment any other way. At best their life will be bitter, cold, and filled with frustration and anxiety. You need only look into your own heart in a moment of silent honesty to realise the truth of what i say.
It simply could not be simpler (LOL). The full fruition of a submissive comes in the gentle and firm arms of a DOMINANT MASTER. I am sorry to report that such are rare.
I do not mean to denigrate your understanding of things as they are, but merely gently wish you the best of luck and highest hopes for fulfilment, after your difficult journey. Feel free to check in any time if you have any questions.
rosco
santas_girl_lyssa
Virgin
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2004
- Posts
- 2
RE: Internet Information
To Whom It May Concern,
i am a submissive, who is married to a man that is not dominate.
i have been to quite a few sites on the 'net, and for the most part, they have been good. Rich in information, and warnings about "cyber M/s". And, despite being very careful, i have still run into problems in this area. Please do not misunderstand me, i love my husband dearly, and he is well aware of my needs, and his inability to fulfill them... (He does try every so often, but it falls very short from the tree...)
More than anything, i am looking for guidance and a sense of dicipline. (After five years without serving, my need has gotten bad enough that i have frequent vivid dreams of it...)
To stay away from trolls, i no longer go into chat rooms. And, i was wondering if there is A/anyone that could please suggest ideas to me.
Thank Y/you for Y/your time and consideration of this matter. i am grateful for any assistance or suggestions that can be offered. Be very well in all respects.
Sincerely,
lyssa
P.S. The image displayed is my own, and copyrighted. However, i am more than glad to donate it to A/anyone W/whom may find use for it. Provided: 1- my copyright notice and e-mail are displayed. 2- It is not used to generate profit.
Also, if A/anyone could tell me exactly how to use avatars please, i would be additionally grateful.
To Whom It May Concern,
i am a submissive, who is married to a man that is not dominate.
i have been to quite a few sites on the 'net, and for the most part, they have been good. Rich in information, and warnings about "cyber M/s". And, despite being very careful, i have still run into problems in this area. Please do not misunderstand me, i love my husband dearly, and he is well aware of my needs, and his inability to fulfill them... (He does try every so often, but it falls very short from the tree...)
More than anything, i am looking for guidance and a sense of dicipline. (After five years without serving, my need has gotten bad enough that i have frequent vivid dreams of it...)
To stay away from trolls, i no longer go into chat rooms. And, i was wondering if there is A/anyone that could please suggest ideas to me.
Thank Y/you for Y/your time and consideration of this matter. i am grateful for any assistance or suggestions that can be offered. Be very well in all respects.
Sincerely,
lyssa
P.S. The image displayed is my own, and copyrighted. However, i am more than glad to donate it to A/anyone W/whom may find use for it. Provided: 1- my copyright notice and e-mail are displayed. 2- It is not used to generate profit.
Also, if A/anyone could tell me exactly how to use avatars please, i would be additionally grateful.
Attachments
rosco rathbone
1. f3e5 2. g4??
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2002
- Posts
- 42,430
Netzach said:
All mail about those icky male bitch boys and their strap on doings will be forwarded to the great rubber goddess in the sky.
Netzach
>semiotics?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2003
- Posts
- 21,732
Re: Re: Response to pure
Well, they do say that SM is born of a self-destructive inner force, that it seeks death in some small or not so small way as the outcome.
Having annhilated as many egoes as I have, I can't always say this isn't the case.
Etoile said:
Well, they do say that SM is born of a self-destructive inner force, that it seeks death in some small or not so small way as the outcome.
Having annhilated as many egoes as I have, I can't always say this isn't the case.
shy slave
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Posts
- 8,255
As a fairly new sub who at 36 yrs has lived a full ife both in and out of sexual relationships, and is a long way from wishing to enter a TPE relationshipat present; i have found this thread interesting.
I have had a real time D/s relationship in the past and i am currently exploring an on-line relationship.
My Master has been open and honest with me about many areas of his life, as I him.
I have realised that each D/s relationship is unique and like a favorite flogger suits different people in different ways
IMHO Taipa has written the most sense and I gained a great deal from her abilty to open up on this subject and thank her for this.
I have also learnt that the best persona sub can take advice from is her/his own self.
We have lived lives prior to entering this lifestyle and are not newly hatched as RR appears to think. RR My apologies if I have misunderstood.
I thank all of you the comments posted for either making me smile or making me cross
and for showing me that, within the lifestyle of a new sub, as in life in general I can learn from my own mistakes and smile (through the pain) at this errors of judgement.
shy slave
I have had a real time D/s relationship in the past and i am currently exploring an on-line relationship.
My Master has been open and honest with me about many areas of his life, as I him.
I have realised that each D/s relationship is unique and like a favorite flogger suits different people in different ways
IMHO Taipa has written the most sense and I gained a great deal from her abilty to open up on this subject and thank her for this.
I have also learnt that the best persona sub can take advice from is her/his own self.
We have lived lives prior to entering this lifestyle and are not newly hatched as RR appears to think. RR My apologies if I have misunderstood.
I thank all of you the comments posted for either making me smile or making me cross
and for showing me that, within the lifestyle of a new sub, as in life in general I can learn from my own mistakes and smile (through the pain) at this errors of judgement.
shy slave
santas_girl_lyssa
Virgin
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2004
- Posts
- 2
UCE
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Posts
- 498
Re: ok, here goes
You are absolutely right to be overcautious, IMO. These folks might be good for playing with but they aren't permanent relationship material. Have you ever seen a triad that worked out well for all three people? I haven't, and I've seen dozens of attempts--within and without bdsm. While a triangle is a very stable structue in geometry, it is just the opposite in human relations. There is always jealousy and misunderstanding. Not always at first, but later, when you've committed to the situation and can't easily back out, you finally start to get to know the people well and then the problems begin. When that happens, when all hell breaks loose, there's a 50-50 chance you will wind up with the guy. If a man who would put two women he supposedly loves into the sort of sheer hell of a two-woman-one-man triangle is important enough to you to go through that hell, then by all means, join up and you may wind up with him when all the feathers die down. I wish I could see your situation in better light, but honest to god, I have seen so many fucking triangles implode. Someone is going to be very grieving and hurt and lonely when this is all done, and...think about this: it isn't going to be Mr. Two Subs All For Me. In case you can't tell, I am absolutely serious about everything I've just said. I'm not saying that triangles or even harems can't work, I'm just saying that most people haven't the maturity to pull one off. Even if the dominant involved can manage to completely supply each of his submissives with what she needs (try to imagine what happens when you both have issues and both need "private time" with him at the same time and think of how you'll feel if he chooses to deal with sub 1 first telling you that your needs will just have to wait) the two submissives will usually not be able to get along after the initial honeymoon-on-best-behavior phase.
Unda. Crucia. Eximius.
taipa said:
You are absolutely right to be overcautious, IMO. These folks might be good for playing with but they aren't permanent relationship material. Have you ever seen a triad that worked out well for all three people? I haven't, and I've seen dozens of attempts--within and without bdsm. While a triangle is a very stable structue in geometry, it is just the opposite in human relations. There is always jealousy and misunderstanding. Not always at first, but later, when you've committed to the situation and can't easily back out, you finally start to get to know the people well and then the problems begin. When that happens, when all hell breaks loose, there's a 50-50 chance you will wind up with the guy. If a man who would put two women he supposedly loves into the sort of sheer hell of a two-woman-one-man triangle is important enough to you to go through that hell, then by all means, join up and you may wind up with him when all the feathers die down. I wish I could see your situation in better light, but honest to god, I have seen so many fucking triangles implode. Someone is going to be very grieving and hurt and lonely when this is all done, and...think about this: it isn't going to be Mr. Two Subs All For Me. In case you can't tell, I am absolutely serious about everything I've just said. I'm not saying that triangles or even harems can't work, I'm just saying that most people haven't the maturity to pull one off. Even if the dominant involved can manage to completely supply each of his submissives with what she needs (try to imagine what happens when you both have issues and both need "private time" with him at the same time and think of how you'll feel if he chooses to deal with sub 1 first telling you that your needs will just have to wait) the two submissives will usually not be able to get along after the initial honeymoon-on-best-behavior phase.
Unda. Crucia. Eximius.
UCE
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Posts
- 498
Netzach said:
Heh, you hit that nail on the head! I must say I am in complete agreement with you about this point.
Ok, I admit it, I do not and never have understood the average male submissive, particularly the guy who goes to prodommes. How can he possibly feel "out of control" when he's paying the money, he's calling all the shots, telling her, often in great detail, what she can and cannot do in the session, what he likes and doesn't like, what he might try and what he will under no circumstances abide having done to him. That's not submission as I understand it. Do the guys who do that ever get depressed by how phoney their experiences of submission are? I've observed a lot of these customers from the outside, and the genuineness of the experience (or lack thereof) seems to have nothing whatsoever to do with their ability to be satisfied with it. They seem quite content with their submission-that-they-control-because-they-pay-for-it. Do you even think that these guys are submissive at all?
Re: Re: ok, here goes
Thank You Uce,
this was one concern. She obviously loves Him, He says He loves her. i do not and said from the very beginning to Him, and told her when we met, i do not want to cause anyone pain. As long as i can keep my heart out, everything will be fine, but should i find myself feeling jealousy or anything more than gratitude or affection, i would have to leave. T/they both say not to worry and to place my heart and trust in His hands...no one has ever had my heart before and i don't know what to do in this situation. This is where the 24/7 TPE is confusing and frightening...to me personally and why i hold back.
taipa
UCE said:
Thank You Uce,
this was one concern. She obviously loves Him, He says He loves her. i do not and said from the very beginning to Him, and told her when we met, i do not want to cause anyone pain. As long as i can keep my heart out, everything will be fine, but should i find myself feeling jealousy or anything more than gratitude or affection, i would have to leave. T/they both say not to worry and to place my heart and trust in His hands...no one has ever had my heart before and i don't know what to do in this situation. This is where the 24/7 TPE is confusing and frightening...to me personally and why i hold back.
taipa
UCE
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Posts
- 498
Re: RE: Internet Information
I'm surprised nobody has responded to this substantially yet. You've described the most common female submissive situation there is. Most women who have discovered and explored bdsm online started out with a non-dominant husband. Many also had the responsibility of children. I didn't, I had girlfriend instead, but it was basically the same dif. (I mean girlfriend=husband, not girlfriend=children, lol).
I expect Rosco and maybe others can provide you with some more specific advice, so I'll limit myself to pointing out the obvious but unpleasant fact of this situation: you love your husband but you want really bad or even need to be dominated. You will try to get and keep both (your husband's love and hot sexors with the dominant) and maybe even succeed at keeping both for awhile, and that will be a really good albeit brief time in your life, but there comes a point when you and your partner want more than the online or even phone relating, and once you venture into real experience (aka adultry) you'll probably find it's impossible to keep a husband and a master at the same time.
Some women who explore submission decide that their husband or current partner is more important than being with somebody who dominates them; I believe most, however, choose to divorce, particularly if they develop a close tie to a dominant (it's very had to stay emotionally distant from someone who really turns you on sexually). It can be a very painful choice, especially if you love your spouse but you find yourself compulsively drawn to meet a dominant, but it can be an especially horrendous experience if you don't see it coming, or if kids are a part of the equation. Most husbands are not going to sit back happily and let themselves be cuckolded by some "online jerk." Most guys will try to get you back, and if they can't do so, a lot will turn very bitter and even vicious or violent.
Finally, estranged husbands can and do drag thier wives who stray into bdsm into court all the time and sue for custody of the children. They often win especially if they use records they obtain of your kinky interests and online encounters to "prove" your lack of competency as a mom. They get such records because their former wives did not understand the importance of learning the technical ins and outs of covering their own tracks.
I don't imagne this is stuff you want to think about at this point, but I always wonder if people did think about these things at the start instead of just rushing madly at the urging of their gonads, if a breakup could be made any easier. Maybe not. Breaking up with somebody you love is very painful, no matter how prepared you try to be. It can be even worse, though, to lose your children--and that you can avoid, if you are careful.
Unda
santas_girl_lyssa said:
I'm surprised nobody has responded to this substantially yet. You've described the most common female submissive situation there is. Most women who have discovered and explored bdsm online started out with a non-dominant husband. Many also had the responsibility of children. I didn't, I had girlfriend instead, but it was basically the same dif. (I mean girlfriend=husband, not girlfriend=children, lol).
I expect Rosco and maybe others can provide you with some more specific advice, so I'll limit myself to pointing out the obvious but unpleasant fact of this situation: you love your husband but you want really bad or even need to be dominated. You will try to get and keep both (your husband's love and hot sexors with the dominant) and maybe even succeed at keeping both for awhile, and that will be a really good albeit brief time in your life, but there comes a point when you and your partner want more than the online or even phone relating, and once you venture into real experience (aka adultry) you'll probably find it's impossible to keep a husband and a master at the same time.
Some women who explore submission decide that their husband or current partner is more important than being with somebody who dominates them; I believe most, however, choose to divorce, particularly if they develop a close tie to a dominant (it's very had to stay emotionally distant from someone who really turns you on sexually). It can be a very painful choice, especially if you love your spouse but you find yourself compulsively drawn to meet a dominant, but it can be an especially horrendous experience if you don't see it coming, or if kids are a part of the equation. Most husbands are not going to sit back happily and let themselves be cuckolded by some "online jerk." Most guys will try to get you back, and if they can't do so, a lot will turn very bitter and even vicious or violent.
Finally, estranged husbands can and do drag thier wives who stray into bdsm into court all the time and sue for custody of the children. They often win especially if they use records they obtain of your kinky interests and online encounters to "prove" your lack of competency as a mom. They get such records because their former wives did not understand the importance of learning the technical ins and outs of covering their own tracks.
I don't imagne this is stuff you want to think about at this point, but I always wonder if people did think about these things at the start instead of just rushing madly at the urging of their gonads, if a breakup could be made any easier. Maybe not. Breaking up with somebody you love is very painful, no matter how prepared you try to be. It can be even worse, though, to lose your children--and that you can avoid, if you are careful.
Unda
Etoile
Mod, 2003-2015
- Joined
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- 17,049
Thanks for posting that, UCE, you said everything just right. Sorry I didn't get to post anything sooner!
Just as same-sex screwing without the primary partner's permission is still cheating, so is seeing a dominant behind the primary partner's back. It's never a good idea, IMHO. It's an affair, plain and simple, no matter how much somebody needs to submit (or dominate). UCE is right that judges tend to award custody to the non-BDSM-kinky partner.
Just as same-sex screwing without the primary partner's permission is still cheating, so is seeing a dominant behind the primary partner's back. It's never a good idea, IMHO. It's an affair, plain and simple, no matter how much somebody needs to submit (or dominate). UCE is right that judges tend to award custody to the non-BDSM-kinky partner.
UCE
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Posts
- 498
Re: Re: Re: ok, here goes
It's hard to hold back that way when you'd really like to completly trust someone and give yourself over, but you're doing exactly the right thing, in my opinion. This is a very tricky situation and has the potential to go so bad...for everyone involved, actually. Even if it does come down to you winding up with him and the other woman leaving, the guilt you could feel over the other woman's hurt and the loss of trust you'd feel for your master for allowing such a disaster to happen to all of you would probably tear you two apart shortly thereafter.
People enter triads and other groupings with the best of intentions, with the desire to be a family and love each other, but for it to work out, all of you have to be smart, sensitive, motivated, and genuinely compatible with each other. And the last issue, the compatibility, is the sticky one. You aren't going to know if you're all three compatible enough to overcome the problems and adjustments that will be necessary until you actually try out the living together. And by then, if things go wrong (and like I said in my earlier message, with triangles, they usually do) it's often too late. I know few submissives who can hold back their heart from somebody they're living with and seeing on a daily basis, especially if that person really meets their needs.
I don't know these people of yours, obviously, and I don't want to do them wrong, but if I were you, I'd save my heart for somebody who had a heart entirely to himself to give back to you. Which means I wouldn't have become involved with a couple in the first place. But if I were in your shoes at this moment, already involved with them, quite honestly, I probably couldn't control myself and would jump into the triangle and give my heart and try very hard to make it work...and then be completely crushed when it all came falling to pieces around my head.
Boy am I in a cheerful mood tonight. :/
taipa said:
It's hard to hold back that way when you'd really like to completly trust someone and give yourself over, but you're doing exactly the right thing, in my opinion. This is a very tricky situation and has the potential to go so bad...for everyone involved, actually. Even if it does come down to you winding up with him and the other woman leaving, the guilt you could feel over the other woman's hurt and the loss of trust you'd feel for your master for allowing such a disaster to happen to all of you would probably tear you two apart shortly thereafter.
People enter triads and other groupings with the best of intentions, with the desire to be a family and love each other, but for it to work out, all of you have to be smart, sensitive, motivated, and genuinely compatible with each other. And the last issue, the compatibility, is the sticky one. You aren't going to know if you're all three compatible enough to overcome the problems and adjustments that will be necessary until you actually try out the living together. And by then, if things go wrong (and like I said in my earlier message, with triangles, they usually do) it's often too late. I know few submissives who can hold back their heart from somebody they're living with and seeing on a daily basis, especially if that person really meets their needs.
I don't know these people of yours, obviously, and I don't want to do them wrong, but if I were you, I'd save my heart for somebody who had a heart entirely to himself to give back to you. Which means I wouldn't have become involved with a couple in the first place. But if I were in your shoes at this moment, already involved with them, quite honestly, I probably couldn't control myself and would jump into the triangle and give my heart and try very hard to make it work...and then be completely crushed when it all came falling to pieces around my head.
Boy am I in a cheerful mood tonight. :/
Netzach
>semiotics?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2003
- Posts
- 21,732
Ok, I admit it, I do not and never have understood the average male submissive, particularly the guy who goes to prodommes. Client = average. Not "average submissive." That doesn't mean he's submissive, correct. Hell, he might even be Dominant. I don't get my Dominant jones addressed when I'm working, however I'd say that a good Pro is a damn fine Top. She's so good she can create a sense of wonder and authenticity around a fairly simplistic roleplay. What's so lame about a roleplay inherently? Just because most people can't commit to them with intelligence, wit and vigor doesn't mean no one can. How can he possibly feel "out of control" when he's paying the money, he's calling all the shots, telling her, often in great detail, what she can and cannot do in the session, what he likes and doesn't like, what he might try and what he will under no circumstances abide having done to him. That's not submission as I understand it. It's not about being out of control it's about FEELING out of control. It's about a suspension of disbelief to a degree, like the lady getting sawed in two by the magician. I always have had this aspect to my SM. However authentic and down and dirty I get, God forbid I ever lose my sense of theatrics, of play, of messy joy in creativity. I think theatrics get serious short shrift in contemporary DSing. I think the insistence on mundane TRUTH at all costs has cost us some aesthetics, some ritual, some pagentry and fabulousness and I like those things. Do the guys who do that ever get depressed by how phoney their experiences of submission are? I've observed a lot of these customers from the outside, and the genuineness of the experience (or lack thereof) seems to have nothing whatsoever to do with their ability to be satisfied with it.
Some are, surprisingly, they know that a paid session is as close to the "real thing" as they are going to get and grudgingly accept that. Sometimes not so grudgingly if you handle them right. They seem quite content with their submission-that-they-control-because-they-pay-for-it. Do you even think that these guys are submissive at all? I think they are more submissive than men who abhor the idea of being tied up and whipped in order to get off. While a Dominant can undergo those acts and remain in a Dominant position, I don't think these guys have gotten that postmodern about the whole deal. Submissive, shitty submissive, or no, they are still bottoms. But again, why is the paradigm for male submission the client? Eccch. I've found male submissives that I want to get to know, use and enjoy based on their individual merits. These are your "average male submissive" and they are often driven by a strong need to balance a rather controlling and high-performing drive that they view as problematic and a hurdle, not an asset, as it stresses and confuses. The same messages that send happy chemical reactions to the brains of Dominant males send fearful and creepy ones to the brains of submissive ones. On average. I prefer my guys more feminine than average. I *do* get my Dominant jones addressed at home, being pamered adored and doted on by the loveliest and most sensitive of androgynous boys.[/QUOTE]
Some are, surprisingly, they know that a paid session is as close to the "real thing" as they are going to get and grudgingly accept that. Sometimes not so grudgingly if you handle them right. They seem quite content with their submission-that-they-control-because-they-pay-for-it. Do you even think that these guys are submissive at all? I think they are more submissive than men who abhor the idea of being tied up and whipped in order to get off. While a Dominant can undergo those acts and remain in a Dominant position, I don't think these guys have gotten that postmodern about the whole deal. Submissive, shitty submissive, or no, they are still bottoms. But again, why is the paradigm for male submission the client? Eccch. I've found male submissives that I want to get to know, use and enjoy based on their individual merits. These are your "average male submissive" and they are often driven by a strong need to balance a rather controlling and high-performing drive that they view as problematic and a hurdle, not an asset, as it stresses and confuses. The same messages that send happy chemical reactions to the brains of Dominant males send fearful and creepy ones to the brains of submissive ones. On average. I prefer my guys more feminine than average. I *do* get my Dominant jones addressed at home, being pamered adored and doted on by the loveliest and most sensitive of androgynous boys.[/QUOTE]
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catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 18,730
rosco rathbone said:
LOL....Geez if I was to take your 2-3+ person persona on Lit seriously I would think you were narcissistic!! Perhaps more accurate would be you are a frustrated performer in need of a stage and captive audience.
Catalina
Re: Re: Re: Re: ok, here goes
You have given me much to think seriously about.
taipa
UCE said:It's hard to hold back that way when you'd really like to completly trust someone and give yourself over, but you're doing exactly the right thing, in my opinion. This is a very tricky situation and has the potential to go so bad...for everyone involved, actually. Even if it does come down to you winding up with him and the other woman leaving, the guilt you could feel over the other woman's hurt and the loss of trust you'd feel for your master for allowing such a disaster to happen to all of you would probably tear you two apart shortly thereafter.
People enter triads and other groupings with the best of intentions, with the desire to be a family and love each other, but for it to work out, all of you have to be smart, sensitive, motivated, and genuinely compatible with each other. And the last issue, the compatibility, is the sticky one. You aren't going to know if you're all three compatible enough to overcome the problems and adjustments that will be necessary until you actually try out the living together. And by then, if things go wrong (and like I said in my earlier message, with triangles, they usually do) it's often too late. I know few submissives who can hold back their heart from somebody they're living with and seeing on a daily basis, especially if that person really meets their needs.
I don't know these people of yours, obviously, and I don't want to do them wrong, but if I were you, I'd save my heart for somebody who had a heart entirely to himself to give back to you. Which means I wouldn't have become involved with a couple in the first place. But if I were in your shoes at this moment, already involved with them, quite honestly, I probably couldn't control myself and would jump into the triangle and give my heart and try very hard to make it work...and then be completely crushed when it all came falling to pieces around my head.
Boy am I in a cheerful mood tonight. :/
You have given me much to think seriously about.
taipa
sunfox
Gangbang Girl
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2003
- Posts
- 1,310
rosco rathbone said:
First of all, in response to your previous posting to me.. I don't give a shit how strong willed and dominant any man is, he is not going to make me less a mother. My child was ill. I was not 'panicked', as you wished to believe. I was worried, and afraid she would get more ill. This is because I love her, an emotion you clearly don't comprehend. Love frequently doesn't allow for control or calm... that's the nature of the feeling. I pity anyone who hasn't felt that kind of desperate adoration for someone or something.
Secondly, again I have to say that you make it abundantly obvious that your only purpose is to seek out the damaged people, and label them true 'submissives', because they can't cope with life. I am no less a submissive due to my ability to handle things with a clear head. That just makes me a balanced and stable adult. Apparently what you desire is an unbalanced, desperately needy 'child'.
This probably stems from your obvious god complex, which shines out from every post you write. The desire to be worshipped and a 'savior' to the 'childish subs' you seek is just pathetic and sad, imo. If you really were a strong male dominant, maybe you'd be worth being a threat.. but you look like a little boy beating his chest and proclaiming his superiority to my eyes, and all that engenders is amusement, and a vague pity.
My partner is a strong-willed, outspoken man. I don't find him threatening. I find him enjoyable, because he has no need to make me feel less, simply to make himself feel Dominant. Something you apparently need to work on.
