Being a woman in geek culture

[Netzach]

Personally, I'm thinking "biowoman" transphobic feminism and the kind that really doesn't give a rats ass about intersctionality.

Agree, it's lame. However, it's not useless. I think the breakdown of gender exists somewhere in between total performativity and total essentialism, and sometimes I think the Butler is a little over-relied upon.

 

[Recidiva]

Interestingly, I now claim that label. I've always been anti-label but I've taken on atheist and feminist this year for a very specific reason: I fit the bill and I want to represent.

I'm not anti label, I'm just anti...the wrong label. I'm agnostic because it's way beyond my comprehension. I can't say if or if there is not some greater being or power in charge. However, if so, they're clearly sadistic assholes. Moving on. I'm a humanist because as stated earlier, my ideal world is where I'm just a woman and a man is just a man.

Now, I'm completely aware that I don't live in that world, but in order to meet people of like mind, I behave as if sexism doesn't exist and I judge individuals on their merits. It's up to someone else to bring race or gender into it or for that matter, God into it.

There are plenty of people who get along just fine with those subjects never coming up and I try not to be the first, and at least in little sections of my life, I live in my ideal world with those people.

 

[Keroin]

Which kind of feminism are we "not" here? Radfem? I'm shitty at it and I don't live up to it, but they're not WRONG, they're just unrealistic and stringent. La la la slutwalk whee Jezebel feminism? Some usefulness, limited. I think images are important but not as important as they do. Ms. Mag straight white wimmin's problems are the whole world's problems feminism? NYT how to parent on a one-percenter budget woe-is me "feminism?" Too often that's seen as non-threatning - scary. Very scary.

I'm much MUCH more worried about aligning myself with that than with radicalized feminism and womanism and women of color and intersectionality and all that. I'm much more of the mind that radfem goes up its own butt in other ways than "oh it makes men sad" and THOSE are the ways I worry about and can't be down with. OK, they have problems that I'm bi, and a SM freak. Frankly those are low-priority enough issues in the world that I can shut up about them and keep them to myself in context.

I used to get very upset about that, and then I realized that my gramma doesn't have to approve of or know everything I do in order to be wise.

I'm very pleased to consider myself feminist, small f.

No, not "making men sad", I'm okay with that. More the generalized "men are bad". I don't like that. That's the radfem I am not.

 

[KoPilot]

Agree, it's lame. However, it's not useless. I think the breakdown of gender exists somewhere in between total performativity and total essentialism, and sometimes I think the Butler is a little over-relied upon.

Oh no, definitely not useless-- even it it's most useless it still puts me to task about my own stances.

 

[Recidiva]

Which kind of feminism are we "not" here? Radfem? I'm shitty at it and I don't live up to it, but they're not WRONG, they're just unrealistic and stringent. La la la slutwalk whee Jezebel feminism? Some usefulness, limited. I think images are important but not as important as they do. Ms. Mag straight white wimmin's problems are the whole world's problems feminism? NYT how to parent on a one-percenter budget woe-is me "feminism?" Too often that's seen as non-threatning - scary. Very scary.

I'm much MUCH more worried about aligning myself with that than with radicalized feminism and womanism and women of color and intersectionality and all that. I'm much more of the mind that radfem goes up its own butt in other ways than "oh it makes men sad" and THOSE are the ways I worry about and can't be down with. OK, they have problems that I'm bi, and a SM freak. Frankly those are low-priority enough issues in the world that I can shut up about them and keep them to myself in context.

I used to get very upset about that, and then I realized that my gramma doesn't have to approve of or know everything I do in order to be wise.

I'm very pleased to consider myself feminist, small f.

Did you ever read "Gone Girl" by Gillian Flynn? I'd recommend it. There's an excellent passage in it which helps define what I'm not. (except the video game part...) It gets a little bitter at the end here for plot reasons...but I like the spirit of the text.

“Men always say that as the defining compliment, don’t they? She’s a cool girl. Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and anal sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she’s hosting the world’s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shit on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl.

Men actually think this girl exists. Maybe they’re fooled because so many women are willing to pretend to be this girl. For a long time Cool Girl offended me. I used to see men – friends, coworkers, strangers – giddy over these awful pretender women, and I’d want to sit these men down and calmly say: You are not dating a woman, you are dating a woman who has watched too many movies written by socially awkward men who’d like to believe that this kind of woman exists and might kiss them. I’d want to grab the poor guy by his lapels or messenger bag and say: The bitch doesn’t really love chili dogs that much – no one loves chili dogs that much! And the Cool Girls are even more pathetic: They’re not even pretending to be the woman they want to be, they’re pretending to be the woman a man wants them to be. Oh, and if you’re not a Cool Girl, I beg you not to believe that your man doesn’t want the Cool Girl. It may be a slightly different version – maybe he’s a vegetarian, so Cool Girl loves seitan and is great with dogs; or maybe he’s a hipster artist, so Cool Girl is a tattooed, bespectacled nerd who loves comics. There are variations to the window dressing, but believe me, he wants Cool Girl, who is basically the girl who likes every fucking thing he likes and doesn’t ever complain. (How do you know you’re not Cool Girl? Because he says things like: “I like strong women.” If he says that to you, he will at some point fuck someone else. Because “I like strong women” is code for “I hate strong women.”)”

 

[BiBunny]

Which kind of feminism are we "not" here? Radfem? I'm shitty at it and I don't live up to it, but they're not WRONG, they're just unrealistic and stringent. La la la slutwalk whee Jezebel feminism? Some usefulness, limited. I think images are important but not as important as they do. Ms. Mag straight white wimmin's problems are the whole world's problems feminism? NYT how to parent on a one-percenter budget woe-is me "feminism?" Too often that's seen as non-threatning - scary. Very scary.

All of the above?

I dunno, I don't want to get into a debate about it because that's not what this thread is about, and I know that some of my opinions aren't terribly popular. I think that a lot of what masquerades as "feminism" is dis-empowering to women, but I don't want to be that person. There's already been enough of that in this thread.

And also, the things people choose to whine about on the Internet are often...well, dumb as shit is about the nicest way I can think of to put it. Again, this where I run into most of the stuff that makes me facepalm, so I hope the idiocy is just more visible online, rather than truly rampant.

 

[Keroin]

Now, I'm completely aware that I don't live in that world, but in order to meet people of like mind, I behave as if sexism doesn't exist and I judge individuals on their merits. It's up to someone else to bring race or gender into it or for that matter, God into it.

Well, I guess having lived in places (by choice) and had careers (by choice) where sexism was blatant and unavoidable, I have a slightly different take on things. But I get you.

 

[Recidiva]

Well, I guess having lived in places (by choice) and had careers (by choice) where sexism was blatant and unavoidable, I have a slightly different take on things. But I get you.

I lived...as a receptionist at an all-male engineering firm in New England. I got sweetied and honeyed and bullied all day.

I just did my job and kept my cool and eventually some of them caught on that I was a gatekeeper. I got flowers from one of the contractors. They addressed it to "The Drill Sergeant."

I've been there and I grew up in a family where emotion and sensitivity was a thing to be wrung out of you.

I don't live there now, but I have no doubt there's a need to be vigilant every day and set an example for people other than yourselves.

Thanks for getting me - The Drill Sergeant

 

[Keroin]

I lived...as a receptionist at an all-male engineering firm in New England. I got sweetied and honeyed and bullied all day.

I just did my job and kept my cool and eventually some of them caught on that I was a gatekeeper. I got flowers from one of the contractors. They addressed it to "The Drill Sergeant."

I've been there and I grew up in a family where emotion and sensitivity was a thing to be wrung out of you.

I don't live there now, but I have no doubt there's a need to be vigilant every day and set an example for people other than yourselves.

Thanks for getting me - The Drill Sergeant

LOL. Yeah, I just want to do something so that in future women don't have to put up with the shit I put up with. That's what it boils down to.

I'm really glad this discussion is happening in the geek community. I'm heading to Worldcon at the end of this month, it will be interesting to see what kind of atmosphere I find there.

 

[BrightlyGo]

I'm a humanist because as stated earlier, my ideal world is where I'm just a woman and a man is just a man.

Now, I'm completely aware that I don't live in that world, but in order to meet people of like mind, I behave as if sexism doesn't exist and I judge individuals on their merits. It's up to someone else to bring race or gender into it or for that matter, God into it.

That's the 'be the change you want to see in the world' thing, isn't it? Someone gave me that advice on a different topic a little while ago, and i acted on it. i don't think i changed the world, but it made a positive difference in myself...

...but it was an easy one. You must have tremendous courage and patience to keep your personal 'change you want to see' going.

 

[Stella_Omega]

All of the above?

I dunno, I don't want to get into a debate about it because that's not what this thread is about, and I know that some of my opinions aren't terribly popular. I think that a lot of what masquerades as "feminism" is dis-empowering to women, but I don't want to be that person. There's already been enough of that in this thread.

And also, the things people choose to whine about on the Internet are often...well, dumb as shit is about the nicest way I can think of to put it. Again, this where I run into most of the stuff that makes me facepalm, so I hope the idiocy is just more visible online, rather than truly rampant.

There's still a message. The message is anger. it almost doesn't matter what dorky combinations of words someone kludges together to express it. it's legit anger anyway.

 

[Keroin]

I think about context and severity sometimes, when it comes to sexism and misogyny.

One day, when we lived on The Rock, L was downtown (aka the part of the island that had the only Four-way stop) and saw a man, out on the street in broad daylight, punch a woman right in the face. L didn't do anything about it. Not that he didn't want to. Badly. But, as foreigners on work visas, we lived on tenterhooks, and could be run off the island if the right people chose to make that happen. Domestic violence against women and children was an accepted thing on the island (accepted by the men, who had all the power), we discovered very soon after our arrival, and any interference on our part would not end well.

Still, it haunts him.

I think of that moment, of that island, and of the way women were treated--myself included--and I think it would be easy to look at some of our first world complaints as petty. But then, I think. "Give 'em an inch..."

I can't change things there but I can change things here and now. And maybe that will help it to spread to there?

Booth babe who gets perved and "accidentally" groped is not so far removed from that woman getting punched in the face.

 

[BiBunny]

There's still a message. The message is anger. it almost doesn't matter what dorky combinations of words someone kludges together to express it. it's legit anger anyway.

If you say so.

 

[satindesire]

I think that this proves that even amongst women who believe in (some of) the ideals of Feminism, we still have a lot of groundwork to cover within the movement itself.

 

[Recidiva]

That's the 'be the change you want to see in the world' thing, isn't it? Someone gave me that advice on a different topic a little while ago, and i acted on it. i don't think i changed the world, but it made a positive difference in myself...

...but it was an easy one. You must have tremendous courage and patience to keep your personal 'change you want to see' going.

In a way, yes. There are other things that influence my behavior. I experience chronic pain in the form of migraines that colors my existence to a huge extent. I'm ultimately subjugated the worst in my life by my own body. Specifically something that happens to women only. I experience withdrawal symptoms when my estrogen levels fall, which causes seizure-pattern behavior and a lowering of my pain threshold to where everything is interpreted by my brain as pain. So clearly this means my estrogen is awesome, if occasionally sparse. Part of my survival process is letting go of bad things/experiences immediately if I can. I carry a very light load of carry-over emotion and I try hard to wash out residual resentment. My load of resentment about 1/4 of my life being spent in horrific pain and the rest of my time spent in the shadow of that pain would be the thing that brought me down and crushed my attitude and hope.

I also have a son with Asperger's and there is a whole cascade of social issues I had to address there. If I get angry or upset at him, it usually makes things worse. If I set the best example I can, over time he might alter his behavior. Might. It means I realize I have to be the good gal, and can't expect positive feedback, but it ultimately provides an example that someone can take or leave.

I realize my son, with all his issues and problems and social dysfunction, is deserving of love and respect and beingness, regardless of my opinion. I try to practice being loving and not approving. I think being human is ridiculously difficult, and I try to grant anybody breathing a gold star for making it this far, and I try to see if there's room for them to learn and grow.

All bets are off if someone proves they can't learn or grow and are destructive and predatory, and if it came to it I'd shoot them in the head and not lose any sleep over it. I do what I have to do and let the rest go.

I can't control what other people do, and I can't dictate how they live their lives. I have a big hands-off, free-will, if you're going to hell in your own handbasket, that's your business policy.

I advise and get involved on Lit in ways I don't do in real life, because people here are asking questions and looking for answers, or posting opinions and looking for feedback. People who want my help will get it, for what it's worth. People who don't, won't have me giving advice unasked.

I'm not sure I could behave differently after seeing unexpected results from years of this practice.

I do what I can do when I can do it, with what's right in front of me, and I try to judge each isolated incident on my ability to make small, evolutionary changes that can make a difference over time.

So let's give an example: I decided the use of the word "retarded" was unacceptable in front of me socially, because I was afraid my son would grow up and that word would be used to insult him. I spend years asking people not to say the word in my presence...and my son grows up and starts calling people retarded.

Did I make a difference? No. Did I learn something in the process of my choice? Oh yeah. Hell yeah.

Am I still asking people not to say "retarded" in front of me? Yes, yes I am. Somewhere along the way I decided I was going to be consistent. I learn.

 

[Recidiva]

I think about context and severity sometimes, when it comes to sexism and misogyny.

One day, when we lived on The Rock, L was downtown (aka the part of the island that had the only Four-way stop) and saw a man, out on the street in broad daylight, punch a woman right in the face. L didn't do anything about it. Not that he didn't want to. Badly. But, as foreigners on work visas, we lived on tenterhooks, and could be run off the island if the right people chose to make that happen. Domestic violence against women and children was an accepted thing on the island (accepted by the men, who had all the power), we discovered very soon after our arrival, and any interference on our part would not end well.

Still, it haunts him.

I think of that moment, of that island, and of the way women were treated--myself included--and I think it would be easy to look at some of our first world complaints as petty. But then, I think. "Give 'em an inch..."

I can't change things there but I can change things here and now. And maybe that will help it to spread to there?

Booth babe who gets perved and "accidentally" groped is not so far removed from that woman getting punched in the face.

My husband was on his motorcycle once when he saw a man beating a woman in a car. He pulled over, dragged the guy out of the car and a the guy started punching so my husband obliged in return.

Then the woman that was being beaten turned on my husband and started hitting him. He ultimately had to leave instead of beating them both up in defense.

So many lessons from that. Many of them entirely unappetizing. I would like to save the man from the need to beat and the woman from the need to be beaten. How to go about that...it can't be done by the roadside.

You have to start asking different questions. Is it part of human nature to express intimacy in that way and outside influence has no place? Do you "help" everyone or do you wait until someone cries for mercy or interference? Is it any different from when a woman is beating up on a guy?

In this community particularly, folks here know that pain and conflict create intimacy. Is it always a bad thing or is it consensual?

It's like asking if a woman is getting a fair wage. On an individual basis, maybe, if someone is valued and can advocate on her own. In general though, by the numbers it's fair to assume a woman isn't being paid a comparable wage and isn't consensually being beaten.

 

[Keroin]

My husband was on his motorcycle once when he saw a man beating a woman in a car. He pulled over, dragged the guy out of the car and a the guy started punching so my husband obliged in return.

Then the woman that was being beaten turned on my husband and started hitting him. He ultimately had to leave instead of beating them both up in defense.

So many lessons from that. Many of them entirely unappetizing. I would like to save the man from the need to beat and the woman from the need to be beaten. How to go about that...it can't be done by the roadside.

You have to start asking different questions. Is it part of human nature to express intimacy in that way and outside influence has no place? Do you "help" everyone or do you wait until someone cries for mercy or interference? Is it any different from when a woman is beating up on a guy?

In this community particularly, folks here know that pain and conflict create intimacy. Is it always a bad thing or is it consensual?

It's like asking if a woman is getting a fair wage. On an individual basis, maybe, if someone is valued and can advocate on her own. In general though, by the numbers it's fair to assume a woman isn't being paid a comparable wage and isn't consensually being beaten.

The incident you describe, from what I've heard from law enforcement officers, is apparently very common in violent domestic disputes. So, yeah, immediate white knight action may seem like the right thing to do but often only makes the situation worse and dangerous for the white knight. At the same time, I know I'd want to intervene in the same way.

As for what we can really do to change patterns, stereotypes, etc, that's complicated. I co-signed John Scalzi's open letter that states, essentially, "I will not attend any con or organized public event that does not have a written and enforceable harassment policy". Obviously, his name means more than mine, but hundreds of other people also co-signed, so that makes a good statement to event organizers. It may not be possible to stop the creepers but at least there will be a means to demonstrate their creeperness will not be welcome or tolerated.

I've been writing a lot more blog posts lately that deal with sexism, and that's my small way of reaching out to my small circle of the world and saying "Hey, have a look at this, it's not good. This needs to change." Little pond ripples.

Not everyone is going to change and it would be silly of me to believe otherwise but I've seen huge social change (for the better) in my lifetime and so it all has to start somewhere. I'm ecstatic to see women speaking up now and saying that they've had enough. Equally thrilled at the men who are supporting us.

 

[Recidiva]

The incident you describe, from what I've heard from law enforcement officers, is apparently very common in violent domestic disputes. So, yeah, immediate white knight action may seem like the right thing to do but often only makes the situation worse and dangerous for the white knight. At the same time, I know I'd want to intervene in the same way.

As for what we can really do to change patterns, stereotypes, etc, that's complicated. I co-signed John Scalzi's open letter that states, essentially, "I will not attend any con or organized public event that does not have a written and enforceable harassment policy". Obviously, his name means more than mine, but hundreds of other people also co-signed, so that makes a good statement to event organizers. It may not be possible to stop the creepers but at least there will be a means to demonstrate their creeperness will not be welcome or tolerated.

I've been writing a lot more blog posts lately that deal with sexism, and that's my small way of reaching out to my small circle of the world and saying "Hey, have a look at this, it's not good. This needs to change." Little pond ripples.

Not everyone is going to change and it would be silly of me to believe otherwise but I've seen huge social change (for the better) in my lifetime and so it all has to start somewhere. I'm ecstatic to see women speaking up now and saying that they've had enough. Equally thrilled at the men who are supporting us.

I'd sign that!

There's a child rearing technique by the Blackfoot Indian nation called "Oh what a good child." In essence it means that you use some quick thinking to put a good spin on whatever it is you see. For example, if a child is sneaking up on his brother, obviously trying to stab them in the back...you can say "Oh! What a good child, you're going to present your brother with a gift of a knife, how generous!"

You know the kid intended to stab...but...psychologically when you give an otherwise impressionable person with a chance to put a good spin on what they were doing, they might actually take it. There's a child that will say "No, you idiot, I was going to stab him, duh!" and take the consequences. But often a child will say "Uh...yeah...that's what I was going to do. Here you go."

I am guilty of "oh what a good child"ing people. I know people have negative motives, but if possible I will point out the possible positive and attribute it to them if I think it will help them feel better about themselves and possibly start to like that feeling.

My daughter noticed that I tell my obviously spoiled and rotten adopted dog that she's a good girl. She is NOT a good girl. She told my son "Did you notice that mom used to also tell us that we were good kids...heeeeey." Although my kids were rotten and spoiled also, they were given opportunities to grow and change and instead of me reinforcing to them that they were evil little fucks all the time, I gave them the chance to grow into being compassionate human beings, and they did. I gave them the space and opportunity to grow in the questionable ethic realm.

Authority figures can shape behavior in subtle and yes, manipulative ways. If I'm convinced that someone's going to claim they were going to stab and will stab again, I will name that thing. If I think someone has an opportunity to learn that you could give a knife instead of stab...I'll take that.

I do know for myself if I'm going to be accused unjustly of bad motives or bad action, I'll want to take that bad motive or bad action around that person out of spite. Seeing that I can be knee-jerk aggressive when confronted with aggression, I feel that if I'm unjustly accusing or aggressive around people, I can provoke negative action that wouldn't have been there before if I hadn't evoked it myself.

So I am not a feminist because that implies in some ways that I consider males to be inherently and individually wrong and responsible in ways that I intellectually know they are not. I won't assume a man is going to behave badly or a woman is going to behave well. I will watch each individual's actions and words and see where they are on the morality scale.

I'm a humanist because I measure each human according to what they do and say, their capacity to make choices according to the evidence to which they have been exposed.

Sadly many people reach adulthood and end up rabid due to circumstances not in their control, and they were never given a choice. This applies to abusive males as well as abused females and vice versa. I would compare it to a dog with rabies. A person that was raised with severe abuse and severe indoctrination never had a chance. They get my compassion in the same way that a rabid dog would. It may not be their fault, but under no circumstances will they be permitted to bite me.

 

[KoPilot]

So I am not a feminist because that implies in some ways that I consider males to be inherently and individually wrong and responsible in ways that I intellectually know they are not.

As a trans* person and someone with a minority orientation, if I dropped every label I had based on what others perceived it to mean, I'd be in pretty bad shape, lol.

 

[Keroin]

I'd sign that!

Here's the post and the co-sign thread is linked at the bottom.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/07/02/my-new-convention-harassment-policy/

Sadly many people reach adulthood and end up rabid due to circumstances not in their control, and they were never given a choice. This applies to abusive males as well as abused females and vice versa. I would compare it to a dog with rabies. A person that was raised with severe abuse and severe indoctrination never had a chance. They get my compassion in the same way that a rabid dog would. It may not be their fault, but under no circumstances will they be permitted to bite me.

Keeping this short because I must get to work!

On an individual basis, yes, I agree. Everyone gets a chance, sympathy, and the benefit of the doubt, regardless of gender. But many of the problems are systemic and that requires action (Scalzi's letter is a perfect example). My thinking has changed on what a feminist "is" and I don't see it as being anti-male or assuming the worst in men, nor do I see it as seeing only the best in women. It is pro-woman, IMO, but that's what's needed right now.

Of course, that's simply my interpretation. I'm trying not to get hung up on the minutiae and just get 'er done.

 

[Recidiva]

As a trans* person and someone with a minority orientation, if I dropped every label I had based on what others perceived it to mean, I'd be in pretty bad shape, lol.

Whatever you wanna call yourself, I will call you, out of respect for your choices. I mean, unless it's really silly like Transfantastic Fairy Dust Person. Although...that sounds kinda cool. I call drag queens "She" if that's what she chooses. Out of respect for people, if they're offended by something or want to be addressed as something...I'll do that. I was in drama for the majority of my life and my brother was gay. Even as a "breeder" I've probably known more gay friends than straight, at least males. I have pictures of my daughter when she was about five with Ru Paul at the Gay Pride events. That bitch is TALL and my daughter could barely reach his hand, but she loved the "drag princess."

I made up the term humanist and my definition of it.

In some sense I'm a strict feminist on lots of issues. Same way that I could be really Christian by my application of the Golden Rule and some of the Commandments.

But do I go to church and would a person who really called themselves these things consider me one? No. Not really. I take the bits of things that I like and toss the rest, so I can't really claim full ownership or full membership.

Words and labels do have a lot of meaning to me. In my opinion men have also suffered in lots of ways and I consider them victims of their own testosterone. I don't consider myself their victim. Even when I was in that job I mentioned, I only dealt with their bullshit with amusement, because men don't make me feel like they are "in control." I don't think it's a "man's world" and I don't think I've been oppressed successfully during my lifetime.

My dad was the person who taught me to think for myself and defend myself and carve out my own path. My mom would have had me be afraid of what the neighbors thought and be pretty so nobody would pick on me and not try to be "too smart". It was my dad who gave me the opportunities and permission and encouragement to kick ass and be smart and not agree with others out of fear. My father taught me how to physically defend myself, so even strong aggressive guys don't make me scared, because I have learned that I have power, and with technique I can kick their arrogant asses. I'm not afraid and I feel that I have the tools, at least for myself personally, to make my own world.

And every powerful scary person sleeps. Doesn't matter how weak I am then. All it takes is the willingness to kill someone in their sleep, and I got that.

 

[Recidiva]

Here's the post and the co-sign thread is linked at the bottom.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/07/02/my-new-convention-harassment-policy/

Keeping this short because I must get to work!

On an individual basis, yes, I agree. Everyone gets a chance, sympathy, and the benefit of the doubt, regardless of gender. But many of the problems are systemic and that requires action (Scalzi's letter is a perfect example). My thinking has changed on what a feminist "is" and I don't see it as being anti-male or assuming the worst in men, nor do I see it as seeing only the best in women. It is pro-woman, IMO, but that's what's needed right now.

Of course, that's simply my interpretation. I'm trying not to get hung up on the minutiae and just get 'er done.

Awesome! Signed!

I think you're awesome and kick ass and I doubt there's much that you would do or say that I wouldn't just stand behind you and nod emphatically.

Being the mom of a young, socially vulnerable son, I have to be very careful about my subtext, because he's very literal. From his viewpoint, he's convinced after watching TV and movies that when adulthood hits he is going to turn into a woman-beating abusive testosterone-soaked rape machine.

I feel he's under social pressure to be inevitably and genetically evil. How much of that permeates our culture? I have to compensate by assuring him that it's his choice, that he's not destined to turn into something he doesn't want to be.

I think it does bad things to guys to hear that they're powerful and superior and have the right to noblesse oblige and will be viciously cannibalized by their own gender if they don't fall into that mold.

I also think guys shouldn't have to only wear clothes that are blue, red and black, but that's a minor fashion emancipation that can go to the back burner.

 

[KoPilot]

Words and labels do have a lot of meaning to me. In my opinion men have also suffered in lots of ways and I consider them victims of their own testosterone. I don't consider myself their victim. Even when I was in that job I mentioned, I only dealt with their bullshit with amusement, because men don't make me feel like they are "in control." I don't think it's a "man's world" and I don't think I've been oppressed successfully during my lifetime.

Fair enough!

My upbringing was the opposite of yours-- my father managed to help turn me into a paranoid, anxious mess. Growing up, he treated me more like a son than a daughter (which is what I wanted), but as soon as I hit puberty he 180'd on me, leaving me feeling lost and confused. Suddenly being true to myself was no longer something he embraced in me, but something that was a source of embarrassment to him. He had no qualms about letting me know. He was emotionally and verbally abusive, and he married someone who encouraged these behaviors. As I was getting close to graduating high school, I was expected to be both a successful business woman who was self-sufficient and making 6 figures, and a housewife whose prime directive is motherhood. And he was militant about enforcing these two conflicting expectations. He's also the guy that said a lot of really creepy sexist and racist bullshit about my endometriosis which didn't make my medical tribulations any easier. He withdrew financial support a year into my college education because his wife wanted to quit her full-time job. And so on.

My mother was always great, even though she was a pushover for much of her mothering career, and married two abusive men. But she always stuck up for me and had no expectations of me other than to just be whoever and whatever I wanted to be.

So I'm a feminist for myself first and foremost. I can't help anyone else if I can't help myself.

 

[BiBunny]

My dad was the person who taught me to think for myself and defend myself and carve out my own path. My mom would have had me be afraid of what the neighbors thought and be pretty so nobody would pick on me and not try to be "too smart". It was my dad who gave me the opportunities and permission and encouragement to kick ass and be smart and not agree with others out of fear. My father taught me how to physically defend myself, so even strong aggressive guys don't make me scared, because I have learned that I have power, and with technique I can kick their arrogant asses. I'm not afraid and I feel that I have the tools, at least for myself personally, to make my own world.

And every powerful scary person sleeps. Doesn't matter how weak I am then. All it takes is the willingness to kill someone in their sleep, and I got that.

Are we the same person?

 

[KoPilot]

On caring too much: http://thoughtcatalog.com/2012/i-will-always-care-too-much/

The sentence that stuck out at me more than anything else there:

To be shamed for your sincerity is to be reminded that you are dependent on something which is not dependent on you — that you are, once again, vulnerable.

That right there.