Bigotry IN the Community
- Thread starter SweetErika
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Evil_Geoff
Equal Opportunity Sadist
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Preach on sister cati, preach on!cati said:
Oh! And have I mentioned how adorable your current av is? That bottom is particularly luscious...
cati
Literally Rabid.
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Jeebus Geoff, do I sound like I'm preaching? Lord I hope not.
It is interesting tho' how many people come into the lifestyle with some
grandiose ideas what "this" is supposed to be about, myself included. The longer I live it, the more I've realized that it's never a cut and dry situation. Initially I thought how cool it would be to be trained in the "old ways" (Old Guard) by a Master who knew exactly what slave training was about. Looking back, perhaps I too may have been too judgemental of some folks who had been in the lifestyle much longer than I and practised BDSM "their way". "Their way" meaning a haphazard collection of whatever suited them and their current partners. But that I was somehow better or more "real" if I stuck to the traditional ways of thinking and behaving. Maybe my narrow thinking came from reading too much BDSM theory online and books than any RT practice... not sure. I also thought "switches" were a wishy washy breed who couldn't quite muster up enough strength to be a Dom/Top or sub/bottom for any true length of time and so in my mind being a switch was a bit of a cop out.
Again, these were my feelings at one time. I'd like to think that I've matured in the last few years and become wiser to what's deemed "real" and what is a "choice" for lifestylers under this GIANT striped, checkered umbrella of ours and how one wishes to do THIS according to an individual's personal sexual or non-sexual "needs" and RL situations. Shoot, now I do sound like I'm preaching.....
I have come to the conclusion that I'm not slave material, nor am I submissive in many situations (again this depends on the circumstances) but I do enjoy bottoming and would like to learn how to top if given the opportunity.
My Dom asked me if I portrayed myself as a submissive here in Lit. and honestly, I didn't know how to answer him. I suppose it depends on the thread and the post I am replying to....but no matter.
Please don't ask me to explain further cause I really can't.
It is interesting tho' how many people come into the lifestyle with some
grandiose ideas what "this" is supposed to be about, myself included. The longer I live it, the more I've realized that it's never a cut and dry situation. Initially I thought how cool it would be to be trained in the "old ways" (Old Guard) by a Master who knew exactly what slave training was about. Looking back, perhaps I too may have been too judgemental of some folks who had been in the lifestyle much longer than I and practised BDSM "their way". "Their way" meaning a haphazard collection of whatever suited them and their current partners. But that I was somehow better or more "real" if I stuck to the traditional ways of thinking and behaving. Maybe my narrow thinking came from reading too much BDSM theory online and books than any RT practice... not sure. I also thought "switches" were a wishy washy breed who couldn't quite muster up enough strength to be a Dom/Top or sub/bottom for any true length of time and so in my mind being a switch was a bit of a cop out.
Again, these were my feelings at one time. I'd like to think that I've matured in the last few years and become wiser to what's deemed "real" and what is a "choice" for lifestylers under this GIANT striped, checkered umbrella of ours and how one wishes to do THIS according to an individual's personal sexual or non-sexual "needs" and RL situations. Shoot, now I do sound like I'm preaching.....
I have come to the conclusion that I'm not slave material, nor am I submissive in many situations (again this depends on the circumstances) but I do enjoy bottoming and would like to learn how to top if given the opportunity.
My Dom asked me if I portrayed myself as a submissive here in Lit. and honestly, I didn't know how to answer him. I suppose it depends on the thread and the post I am replying to....but no matter.
Please don't ask me to explain further cause I really can't.
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midwestyankee
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Erika, I hope this isn't too far afield from your intent in starting this thread, but I couldn't help but notice a wider application of your problem.
We seem to be in or moving into an age where true-path solutions can easily become popular. It isn't all that difficult for me to see parallels between the attitude of superiority displayed by SweetErika's correspondent and those of many who have taken their identity from belonging to one group or another. I know several people who have joined one of the many megachurches in my area. These are generally very conservative and insular organizations. It appears to be a necessary tenet of their operations to establish a "we're different because we're better" mindset among the members. I'm sure that if we looked around we would all be able to identify groups that function in the same way.
I'm not sure what this says about our society, but such separatism seems to be growing in influence. It's certainly a part of what most of us find so disturbing about terrorist groups, for they draw most of their strength from such attitudes. I find it particularly disturbing when a group of people establish their identities not so much in terms of who they are or what they stand for, but by who they aren't and why they are superior to all who aren't what they are.
On some level, it seems to me that this impulse towards separatism, maybe even toward tribalism, is what's happening in the example of SweetErika's correspondent.
Or am I delusional?
We seem to be in or moving into an age where true-path solutions can easily become popular. It isn't all that difficult for me to see parallels between the attitude of superiority displayed by SweetErika's correspondent and those of many who have taken their identity from belonging to one group or another. I know several people who have joined one of the many megachurches in my area. These are generally very conservative and insular organizations. It appears to be a necessary tenet of their operations to establish a "we're different because we're better" mindset among the members. I'm sure that if we looked around we would all be able to identify groups that function in the same way.
I'm not sure what this says about our society, but such separatism seems to be growing in influence. It's certainly a part of what most of us find so disturbing about terrorist groups, for they draw most of their strength from such attitudes. I find it particularly disturbing when a group of people establish their identities not so much in terms of who they are or what they stand for, but by who they aren't and why they are superior to all who aren't what they are.
On some level, it seems to me that this impulse towards separatism, maybe even toward tribalism, is what's happening in the example of SweetErika's correspondent.
Or am I delusional?
Evil_Geoff
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midwestyankee said:
It's easier to control a 1000 groups of a 1000 people by playing them off one another than it is to control a million people united in common cause.
That's a basic tenet of ANY competent political (or military or economic) strategist. Divide and conquer.
Nuff said.
midwestyankee
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Isn't it just a little disheartening that such tactics are used to divide people that ought to be a part of the same nation and civilization? I wonder what it is about humanity that makes this sort of thing so attractive?Evil_Geoff said:
Aeroil
Aerouille, Ma Chérie
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Okay... serious post from Aeroil TIS RARE, THIS
The kinky community is not the easiest one to... feel a communion with. Mainstream society brandishes us as immoral, in many ways. Most people do feel a strong pull with what mainstream society thinks, convoluted or not, and kinky people are no exception. Second, we're a ridiculously diverse group, hard to deny that. Third, many of us are interested in activities that could easily be considered dangerous. There are others I'm sure, but either way, this does add up to people feeling alienated.
Now, like people do, when they feel left out, or that they're missing something, they make up reasons why. Generally, these reasons are self-favoring, because once again, we're dealing with people here. This is why you'll see a lot of arrogance amongst teh crazy people, it's because they don't feel like they belong in our group so they create another smaller group and try to remove it from ours by saying it's different (better, usually).
I actually wouldn't say she's crazy so much as she feels a strong disassociation with the kinky peoples and so she clings to a uniqueness to separate herself from us.
The kinky community is not the easiest one to... feel a communion with. Mainstream society brandishes us as immoral, in many ways. Most people do feel a strong pull with what mainstream society thinks, convoluted or not, and kinky people are no exception. Second, we're a ridiculously diverse group, hard to deny that. Third, many of us are interested in activities that could easily be considered dangerous. There are others I'm sure, but either way, this does add up to people feeling alienated.
Now, like people do, when they feel left out, or that they're missing something, they make up reasons why. Generally, these reasons are self-favoring, because once again, we're dealing with people here. This is why you'll see a lot of arrogance amongst teh crazy people, it's because they don't feel like they belong in our group so they create another smaller group and try to remove it from ours by saying it's different (better, usually).
I actually wouldn't say she's crazy so much as she feels a strong disassociation with the kinky peoples and so she clings to a uniqueness to separate herself from us.
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Chicklet
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I once received an unsolicited email on Collarme.com from a woman. it just said "lol" - so I wrote back "?" apparently that was the invitation she needed to rant on for three pages about how I wasn't really interested in BDSM because my profile states that i'm not interested in a 24/7 d/s relationship, and that i'm really just looking for a kinky boyfriend. i wrote back that everybody's different, and that i'd gotten a mostly positive response from my profile. she wrote back again telling me i was wrong, etc etc, lol. i just stopped there and didn't bother again.
Aeroil
Aerouille, Ma Chérie
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Good response:
"If I was concerned with other people approving of my sexuality, I'd have stuck with being totally vanilla. I walked away from other peoples' standards because I wanted to be a happier person, and your standards are no different."
"If I was concerned with other people approving of my sexuality, I'd have stuck with being totally vanilla. I walked away from other peoples' standards because I wanted to be a happier person, and your standards are no different."
Mamid
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Okay, you can think of the "true path" as a highway. Some are walking along the side of it. Some are on bicycles, some in cars, some in busses and then there's the big truck...
Anyway, at any given time, there are people on the same path as you but they are not on the same path. Those that have gone ahead have changed the path. Those who are on it, change it still. Those you travel with change it as well.
You can think of your dom as being in the driver's seat with you in the passenger seat because you choose to go with them. Some doms have little Smart cars or minis. Others have a bus filled with people.
And yes, a lot of times the cars pull over to let people out and others in.
So, although loony might be in a red Hummer with her master, that doesn't mean you and your master have to be in an identical one tailgaiting or trying to street race them. You guys might pick the beamer or the old beater because that's what you want.
Does the "true path" anology make sense now?
Anyway, at any given time, there are people on the same path as you but they are not on the same path. Those that have gone ahead have changed the path. Those who are on it, change it still. Those you travel with change it as well.
You can think of your dom as being in the driver's seat with you in the passenger seat because you choose to go with them. Some doms have little Smart cars or minis. Others have a bus filled with people.
And yes, a lot of times the cars pull over to let people out and others in.
So, although loony might be in a red Hummer with her master, that doesn't mean you and your master have to be in an identical one tailgaiting or trying to street race them. You guys might pick the beamer or the old beater because that's what you want.
Does the "true path" anology make sense now?
Ebonyfire
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"The path I follow and that of my Master is the one and true path"
When I see something like that I think of Hansel and Gretel the fairy tale.
All I can say is I hope they carry plenty of breadcrumbs. Just in case they get lost.
One true path tends to be very narrow, with a lot of unexpected twists and turns.
Eb
When I see something like that I think of Hansel and Gretel the fairy tale.
All I can say is I hope they carry plenty of breadcrumbs. Just in case they get lost.
One true path tends to be very narrow, with a lot of unexpected twists and turns.
Eb
neonflux
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You, Zin, just made my day!Zinfandel said:Neon, in the short time that I've been reading in this forum, I have really enjoyed seeing your posts. You bring what seems to me to be a light-heartedness to many threads, an energetic sweetness of sorts that seems to be a part of your character. I am an overly-serious person too much of the time, and I just wanted to let you know how much I've enjoyed your posts in this forum.
I've noticed a lot of people being playful with one another here, and it's nice to see
Sorry I haven't responded earlier - was in NYC the weekend before, then came back to too much work to deal with so this is my first concentrated time back. Anyway, I look forward to reading more of your posts, in turn ~ Neon (Thank you for letting me make a small hijack, Erika.)
MasterPhoenix
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SweetErika: The person you spoke to sounded like a total nut job. It is a shame that there are pople liek that, but alas in any group you get the good the bad and the moronic.
Geoff: Great post on divide and conquor.
Geoff: Great post on divide and conquor.
neonflux
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Hi SweetErika,
Finally back and posting again - can add little to what everyone else has already stated on this thread about how people's insecurity, egotism, internalized - not sure if oppression is the word when it comes to bdsm - perhaps "suppression or self-hatred" is a better term, etc. impact their views of themselves and others. She clearly has major issues.
What I'm wondering, based on your initial posts, is if what she did to you also isn't a betrayal of sorts. (Sounds a little like Chicklet's situation - ewww, grrl, that collarme.com woman sounds downright nasty!)
Did she lure you into thinking she was a friend, perhaps even asking for advice before she got so "holier-than-thou?" If so, that is even more inexcusable. It also sounds very much to me like someone who is in such a constricting relationship that it amounts to being abusive - it's clear her "Master" has every intention of cutting her off from the rest of the BDSM community...
In any case, she sounds like a very disturbed person that you're well away from!!!
Neon
Finally back and posting again - can add little to what everyone else has already stated on this thread about how people's insecurity, egotism, internalized - not sure if oppression is the word when it comes to bdsm - perhaps "suppression or self-hatred" is a better term, etc. impact their views of themselves and others. She clearly has major issues.
What I'm wondering, based on your initial posts, is if what she did to you also isn't a betrayal of sorts. (Sounds a little like Chicklet's situation - ewww, grrl, that collarme.com woman sounds downright nasty!)
Did she lure you into thinking she was a friend, perhaps even asking for advice before she got so "holier-than-thou?" If so, that is even more inexcusable. It also sounds very much to me like someone who is in such a constricting relationship that it amounts to being abusive - it's clear her "Master" has every intention of cutting her off from the rest of the BDSM community...
In any case, she sounds like a very disturbed person that you're well away from!!!
Neon
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Mamid
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There's disturbed people all over society, not just in bdsm.
One... charmer in particular at a munch looked at me and then leaned over to a friend of hers and demanded to know how I was still able to find a man and started to describe how skanky I was. I don't think she realized how good my hearing actually is even now. The person in question was a domme who had badly abused several subbies I had as friends and he was having a hard time being at said munch so I know she said what she said to rattle me.
It did. Now, I just think back on it and want to rip her head off and shit down her throat. But I'm more mature than that now...
honest.
Don't let her get to you. She's just doing it to rattle you.
One... charmer in particular at a munch looked at me and then leaned over to a friend of hers and demanded to know how I was still able to find a man and started to describe how skanky I was. I don't think she realized how good my hearing actually is even now. The person in question was a domme who had badly abused several subbies I had as friends and he was having a hard time being at said munch so I know she said what she said to rattle me.
It did. Now, I just think back on it and want to rip her head off and shit down her throat. But I'm more mature than that now...
honest. Don't let her get to you. She's just doing it to rattle you.
Penalt
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Okay, a big part of my personal history was following a 'true path' and trying to convince everyone I met that they needed to follow my path. I am pretty sure I was fairly pushy at times about it too. From my experience it takes a truly massive derailment of their train of thought to have a true pather even consider that someone might have a valid point.
The point is, even though the person was being rude and pushy they likely didn't see themselves in that light. Getting mad at them generally only validates them. Clear, calm, reasoned conversation will get you further than a 2x4 in this instance.
The point is, even though the person was being rude and pushy they likely didn't see themselves in that light. Getting mad at them generally only validates them. Clear, calm, reasoned conversation will get you further than a 2x4 in this instance.
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