Boredom

[Shadowsdream]

Can you see that there are circumstances where all can be lost by honesty? And sometimes there are no second chances?

Is it ALWAYS best to be honest? Are there times when one should hold back?

I have tested myself regarding my honesty. Now I am questioning how wise I was to be so honest. Can one be foolish to be so honest? Or appear the fool to others?

I am seriously doubting my judgement.

Rose

Honesty means so many different things if one wishes to pare it down...or to make it an excuse to say hurtful things that cannot benefit nor is the real purpose to benefit but to hurt using the backdoor.

If you for instance know that your Dominant has bad breath...and you know they are about to meet with the president of the company for a possible promotion....your honesty in pointing out the bad breath would be for the benefit of the Dominant. Now you see it is necessary although potentially embarrassing for both of you. The honesty will be best recived in the approach.

Now you could say..OMG your breath smells like the back end of a skunk! NOT GOOD! even though it is 100% true. or you could present that same truth as...I detect something unusual about You..may I do a last minute breath check? With a little wrinkle of the nose you could smile and say, ya need a little touch up, with just a trace of humour and a dose of acceptance...Same scene different approach.

your Dominant asks you if you are happy. you are not. you can lie in dishonesty or answer with the truth. you are not happy because there has been no Domination for a week..No mental or physical contol at all.

you could reply " i am feeling lost as i am not feeling any direction. i do not know if something is bothering You outside or inside of O/our relationship, and so i don't know how to fix it."
you have shown honesty and the desire to fix the problem if it is something you are responsible for..it also demonstrates that you undersatnd it could be external. you are showing respect and honesty.

or you could say "You are boring me to death with Your lack of Domination. If You don't want me just fucking well say it and get it over with!" Bad approach and not really honest since you really don't want the relationship to end but wish the Domination to pick up again.

or you could smile sweetly and say you were happy..Which is dishonest.

I can't answer you specifically because the question is generic but perhaps you can twist some of this to find your personal answer.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Can you see that there are circumstances where all can be lost by honesty? And sometimes there are no second chances?

Is it ALWAYS best to be honest? Are there times when one should hold back?

I have tested myself regarding my honesty. Now I am questioning how wise I was to be so honest. Can one be foolish to be so honest? Or appear the fool to others?

I am seriously doubting my judgement.

Rose

Many times there will be no second chances and justifiably so.

Many times a degree of disclosure should be held back but there is a fine line between disclosure and honesty..I think there was a thread about that not long ago.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I got way off topic

I am sorry. You are right and I will go back and read that thread.

Rose

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: I got way off topic

I am sorry. You are right and I will go back and read that thread.

Rose

no apologizes rose..your questions definately belong in this thread...so don't be thinking they don't...I do not see your thoughts as being off topic here at all...more as a twist in the bend...as all good conversations have

 

[~Dream~]

In all honesty, I have neither the time nor the interest in dealing with bullshit. I would not waste my time on that sort of game. Accordingly, I try very hard not to waste anyone else's time with games.

For me, bullshit indicates a massive lack of respect; it doesn't matter whether the individual is labeled Dom/me, sub, or switch.

I have heard the profound sound of silence. For me, it was worse than any other punishment that could have been delivered.


edited for a typo

_____________________________________
lol all we were talking about last night was about B.S. and mostly it coming frim me.. Master KNOWS if I type something in messenger wheter it IS a real FACT or not.. I truly do NOTmean to play games with Him at all,I just do things to try to spark some emotional response.. I will NEVER allow for Him to become bored of me, I plan to keep things way too "fun" and interesting for us BOTH.
I agree with Rose about the RESPECT ,if it isnt there for ME I damn sure am not giving it myself..
as for Sis Des, yes thats the WORSE punishment ever=Silence..
Silence stops communication and =slow& painful death to ANY relationship.. Master doesnt use it as "punishment" , however, He uses it as a tool to give me time to think" about my mistakes..
He knows I equate silence to abandoment issues I have.. it is NOT a funny thing to me at all.. I fear the silence..

 

[Azzy]

*bump*

Why? Because as a dedicated lurker, I'd rather see this at the top of the page.

 

[Shadowsdream]

*bump*

Why? Because as a dedicated lurker, I'd rather see this at the top of the page.

welcome and thank you for seeing the value in this thread....I think I will now take it a little further and show how OBLIGATION can also foster boredom and loss of a potential relationship.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I train many submissives because I know that most of them will never get the opportunity to see if submission is a fantasy or a true need that they should spend years pursuing. Emotional involvements are impossible to control and so I have made a very BIG point of being brutally honest about how difficult it is to become one of Mine. I train for My own joy as well as the developement of those I believe deserve the opportunity to bend their knee for a Domme who will understand the courage it takes to submit.
I expect as much respect as I give but I am not the kind of Domme that needs My ass kissed or a dozen hearts thrown at My feet making it impossible for Me to step forward on My Own path. I am honored when I have won the affection of those I care for and nurture in their growth because I know that I have earned that honor. BUT I am not honored by words of love from submissives who are still learning the very basics of my ways. Love is a trap when it is given to quickly.

When I begin to feel an obligation to be online or available in real time to suit their schedules around work, family and chosen external activities boredom is beginning to rear its ugly head for Me. The moment that the submissive begins to think My Domination is their right is the moment they begin to look through their old vanilla eyes.

I am no ones girlfriend...I watch closely for all the vanilla signals that bore Me through there obligation tactics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

anyone see where boredom and obligation can over lap and how it could occur?

 

[A Desert Rose]

I expect as much respect as I give but I am not the kind of Domme that needs My ass kissed or a dozen hearts thrown at My feet making it impossible for Me to step forward on My Own path. I am honored when I have won the affection of those I care for and nurture in their growth because I know that I have earned that honor.

~~~~~I respectfully ask, if it makes you feel somewhat humble that you have earned the respect of your subs, Ma'am? Or is that an improper description on my part?

When I begin to feel an obligation to be online or available in real time to suit their schedules around work, family and chosen external activities boredom is beginning to rear its ugly head for Me.

~~~~~I can see how obligation can be boring. I hate when demands are placed on me, by people I have no vested interest in. This reminds me of something I just read not too long ago in this forum: an individual stated that he did not like high maintanence subs. I can very well understand that line of thought. I would not like to be considered high maintanece. When sustaining the relationship becomes a chore, or an obligation, it becomes a bore, also. And then of course, resentment follows very closely behind. This is a relationship killer.

Rose

 

[Shadowsdream]

I expect as much respect as I give but I am not the kind of Domme that needs My ass kissed or a dozen hearts thrown at My feet making it impossible for Me to step forward on My Own path. I am honored when I have won the affection of those I care for and nurture in their growth because I know that I have earned that honor.

~~~~~I respectfully ask, if it makes you feel somewhat humble that you have earned the respect of your subs, Ma'am? Or is that an improper description on my part?

When I begin to feel an obligation to be online or available in real time to suit their schedules around work, family and chosen external activities boredom is beginning to rear its ugly head for Me.

~~~~~I can see how obligation can be boring. I hate when demands are placed on me, by people I have no vested interest in. This reminds me of something I just read not too long ago in this forum: an individual stated that he did not like high maintanence subs. I can very well understand that line of thought. I would not like to be considered high maintanece. When sustaining the relationship becomes a chore, or an obligation, it becomes a bore, also. And then of course, resentment follows very closely behind. This is a relationship killer.

Rose

No rose I do not feel humble for earning respect...I work extremely hard at teaching and know that any respect I earn has been earned the hard way. There is a poster or two in Lit that can tell you how impossible it is to be taught by Me. How much time, effort and obstinance is put into My trainings. To both subs and Dom/mes. I earn what I get, it does not humble Me nor does it feed me arrogance. What I do see from the respect I earn is that I have not wasted My time in choosing those I teach.

I consider My slave to be high maintenace, which is precisely one of the reasons I chose him. High maintenance need not be detrimental to some Dominants as much as a challenge. I do not feel obligation or boredom in high maintenance...I feel it in the sub that proclaims perfection without striving for it.

 

[WillowPuss]

<snip>

anyone see where boredom and obligation can over lap and how it could occur?

I too have experienced this ... where you feel you must do something to please somebody else, whereas, if the truth be known, you would much rather be doing something completely different.

I have yet to experience this in the lifestyle ... but in my 'vanilla' life ... this was an occurance that cropped up all to often.
Why? Possibly a lot of the fault rested with me. I have a hard job saying 'no' to somebody. Approached in the correct way, I will do anything I can to help somebody; I will go out of my way for them. That doesn't mean that I will be walked all over, but it does mean that I will put my best efforts into fullfilling their request.

Now comes the obligation/boredom part. Many people have been quick to spot this trait in me ... and then they play on it. Phrases like "If you were a friend you would ... "
or "If you really liked me you would ..."

These, to be, are like games children play. Words and phrases that you might hear in any playground 'If you were my best friend ...'

I hate them. Loathe and despise them. Very quickly people who continually treat me in this way will find me melting gently away, ever harder to reach ... until all contact has been severed.

The flip side of this coin ... I have a tendancy to be nervous around friends I have made, especially on-line where one is unable to see facial features for their reactions, lest I am the one boring them.
Those with whom I speak with on a regular basis may often here me seeking reassurance that I am still able to speak with them. I can imagine that this could be a little tiresome for sssome - but I would sooner ask and be sure that I am not causing a problem that I myself hate. (I am working on this fault of mine ... but it will take time )

 

[A Desert Rose]

...I feel it in the sub that proclaims perfection without striving for it.

Your whole post was wonderful but the words that stand out at me the strongest are the last.... Can you elaborate on this last sentence for me? I am not sure I understand it.

Thank you,
Rose

 

[Shadowsdream]

I too have experienced this ... where you feel you must do something to please somebody else, whereas, if the truth be known, you would much rather be doing something completely different.

I have yet to experience this in the lifestyle ... but in my 'vanilla' life ... this was an occurance that cropped up all to often.
Why? Possibly a lot of the fault rested with me. I have a hard job saying 'no' to somebody. Approached in the correct way, I will do anything I can to help somebody; I will go out of my way for them. That doesn't mean that I will be walked all over, but it does mean that I will put my best efforts into fullfilling their request.

Now comes the obligation/boredom part. Many people have been quick to spot this trait in me ... and then they play on it. Phrases like "If you were a friend you would ... "
or "If you really liked me you would ..."

These, to be, are like games children play. Words and phrases that you might hear in any playground 'If you were my best friend ...'

I hate them. Loathe and despise them. Very quickly people who continually treat me in this way will find me melting gently away, ever harder to reach ... until all contact has been severed.

The flip side of this coin ... I have a tendancy to be nervous around friends I have made, especially on-line where one is unable to see facial features for their reactions, lest I am the one boring them.
Those with whom I speak with on a regular basis may often here me seeking reassurance that I am still able to speak with them. I can imagine that this could be a little tiresome for sssome - but I would sooner ask and be sure that I am not causing a problem that I myself hate. (I am working on this fault of mine ... but it will take time )

Thank you willow for continuing this conversation with U/us. you have so aptly described the reality of day to day life when NO is not used appropriately.

In the BDSM context if a Dominant cannot say NO and mean it without guilt they perpetuate the dissolution of a possible relationship as they willfully allow it to slip back to the vanilla girlfriend/boyfriend world they were both trying to step out of.

Both obligation and boredom have the POSSIBILITY of being averted if One party can say NO and the other can accept NO:

 

[cellis]

Just a couple of scattered and random thoughts on the subject this morning.

First I agree with all, boredom is the death of the relationship. One must always strive to keep things new and fresh... just that little edge that creates a need.. a little excitement. I don't know about anyone else, but I need this and Himself does this oh so well.

Secondly, I have no time for bs or playing games. After many months of talking with people and searching for the right one, Himself and I have been through more bs than you can imagine. I often wonder why people even bother to reply when there is such insincerity on their part. I think that Himself and I have learned rather quickly to weed through this now, and I know that I am able to tell within a few minutes of conversation it is real or not.

 

[Desdemona]

Just a couple of scattered and random thoughts on the subject this morning.

First I agree with all, boredom is the death of the relationship. One must always strive to keep things new and fresh... just that little edge that creates a need.. a little excitement. I don't know about anyone else, but I need this and Himself does this oh so well.

Secondly, I have no time for bs or playing games. After many months of talking with people and searching for the right one, Himself and I have been through more bs than you can imagine. I often wonder why people even bother to reply when there is such insincerity on their part. I think that Himself and I have learned rather quickly to weed through this now, and I know that I am able to tell within a few minutes of conversation it is real or not.

Cellis, perhaps this would be good fodder for another thread.... tips for weeding through the BS. How to quickly evaluate whether or not someone is playing games. I know quite a few very nice people who have been hurt because they were unable to pick up on the game playing. This is a real danger when people meet each other online. I know we've had a thread about the online predator, does this go farther than that?

I am sorry for the temporary hijack, Shadows.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Your whole post was wonderful but the words that stand out at me the strongest are the last.... Can you elaborate on this last sentence for me? I am not sure I understand it.

Thank you,
Rose

Those particular words refer to men and woman who have proclaimed themselves to be the sub some LUCKY Dominant should be grateful to receive their GIFT of submission from.

(..I feel it in the sub that proclaims perfection without striving for it. )

With so close to no experience that it is stunning they think they have anything to give. They would rather fight against learning about BDSM because it is beneath them to lower themselves beyond their own egos. They will not learn but mouth the words like the holy Graille...i must i must i must..hey,...no way..no one can tell me what to do!

The day they saw a place to chat and play and orgasm to their own music was the day they found a valid use for the word submit. They deserve the best Dom/me on the block simply because they say so.

Thou doth protest too much....I believe has been uttered here before...these words speak for themselves if O/one only takes the time to look beyond hidden agendas.

I have seen My share of these self proclaimed submisives..and yes Dominants as well come and go like fleas on the back of dogs. But seldom do they do anything more than recreate themselves online and in real time hurting anyone that interrupts their journey.

Too many people misunderstand the fact that all they are really looking for is a little kink here and there and a hard fuck exactly as they WANT it..when they want it and if they want it.

It is not a new concept but it permeates more quickly now since the Internet opens doors for anyone to be anything they claim they are.

I hope this is helpful rose...and by the way..I do like the artistic av.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Just a couple of scattered and random thoughts on the subject this morning.

First I agree with all, boredom is the death of the relationship. One must always strive to keep things new and fresh... just that little edge that creates a need.. a little excitement. I don't know about anyone else, but I need this and Himself does this oh so well.

Secondly, I have no time for bs or playing games. After many months of talking with people and searching for the right one, Himself and I have been through more bs than you can imagine. I often wonder why people even bother to reply when there is such insincerity on their part. I think that Himself and I have learned rather quickly to weed through this now, and I know that I am able to tell within a few minutes of conversation it is real or not.

I am very pleased that you have confirmed the fact that BS is as rampant in real time as it is online cellis. Such an amazing waste of time when there really are so many in this lifestyle deserving of play, life and sex partners under the umbrella of BDSM

 

[Shadowsdream]

Cellis, perhaps this would be good fodder for another thread.... tips for weeding through the BS. How to quickly evaluate whether or not someone is playing games. I know quite a few very nice people who have been hurt because they were unable to pick up on the game playing. This is a real danger when people meet each other online. I know we've had a thread about the online predator, does this go farther than that?

I am sorry for the temporary hijack, Shadows.

you are welcome to hijack any and all of My conversations and it is always wonderful to see new conversations erupt from something any one of U/us finds of value.

I hope someone will begin the thread you suggest as it will be My pleasure to join in the conversation.

 

[cellis]

Cellis, perhaps this would be good fodder for another thread.... tips for weeding through the BS. How to quickly evaluate whether or not someone is playing games. I know quite a few very nice people who have been hurt because they were unable to pick up on the game playing. This is a real danger when people meet each other online. I know we've had a thread about the online predator, does this go farther than that?

I am sorry for the temporary hijack, Shadows.

You know Des, it is more than just being a predator. It is about people who just don't know what they want or get cold feet or just lack the basic ability to be honest.

Perhaps you are right... this should be on a different thread...

My apologies, Shadows

 

[Shadowsdream]

You know Des, it is more than just being a predator. It is about people who just don't know what they want or get cold feet or just lack the basic ability to be honest.

Perhaps you are right... this should be on a different thread...

My apologies, Shadows

O no it belongs here on this thread My point was simply that an ADDITIONAL thread was a compliment to this one...a thread should take on new life of its own...create new directions...that is the value of conversations..the way they grow in all directions...

No apologizes please..just be proud that you saw more directions before you.

 

[Hecate]

Drifting off the Boredom and into the Bullshit

.. and this is only meant symbolic, mind you!


Just a little intermidiate thought on the bs / players issue...

How do we define players?
As people who are pretending to want BDSM (pressumably we read it as TPE 24/7 in that context) as opposed to some kinky sex which is what actually they really want.

Why don't they then just say so?
Have we considered they might not be able to admit that to themselves let alone to potential play partners? Because in this ohhhh so wonderfull and "no pain" cyber realm it is frowned upon on most places to just want a kinked lay in an otherwise 'regular' relation as oppposed to a fully fledged 24/7 TPE?

Even that aside, even given they do seek a full BDSM relation, why would they pretend to be things they are not and feed potential partners that bs?
Because they can? The internet has given them such an abundant mass of information, first-person-experiences to read about, that it is easy to mirror that "knowledge" and pass it as own ... and this is just a "normal" pattern for many pepople, be it on professional or friendly compettitive grounds... who really will admit to not having a clue abot something you are obviously showing an interest in? Insecurity is so much part of most of us and when making new contacts there will be taken most desperate measures at times to hide that-
- and then THAT in a Dominant? Oh goodness, now how could that work? *ooops, don't slide on my dripping sarcasm here*

I think for each deliberate pretender/predator there are dozens who just don't know better and think they are cool.


Seriously - I think there is just much bullshitting going on on all dating-markets of the world - no more or less I would like to think in a BDSM context than in all other types of relations. It only may be a bit less tollerated because the spectre of expectations and potential damage is wider.

But I would thinik that if there was any secure way to "weed it out" or "weed through it quickly" I would appreciate hearing it!


Hecate who took about an hour to finish this post beween work so hopefully this thread hasn't moved too far from the pont I was trying to reply to

 

[Desdemona]

Thank you Shadows. Before I post the new thread I'll share a thought or two that came to me while pondering your question about obligation and boredom.


It seems to me that whenever there is a sense of being obligated to do whatever (meet someone's schedule for affection, play etc,) the other person is taking our submission or Domination for granted. This brings me back to the basic theme in my mind these days; respect.
IMO, if you truly respect someone, you don't take them for granted or try to manipulate them into a sense of obligation. If you respect someone, you do what is necessary to earn or maintain their regard and to keep the relationship from becoming boring. Of course, this all sounds nice while I type it. Expending the energy to do these things in the course of a real life relationship, while dealing with the mundane responsibilities of our daily lives, is much harder and requires effort and sincere committment.

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Drifting off the Boredom and into the Bullshit

.. and this is only meant symbolic, mind you!


Just a little intermidiate thought on the bs / players issue...

How do we define players?
As people who are pretending to want BDSM (pressumably we read it as TPE 24/7 in that context) as opposed to some kinky sex which is what actually they really want.

Why don't they then just say so?
Have we considered they might not be able to admit that to themselves let alone to potential play partners? Because in this ohhhh so wonderfull and "no pain" cyber realm it is frowned upon on most places to just want a kinked lay in an otherwise 'regular' relation as oppposed to a fully fledged 24/7 TPE?

Even that aside, even given they do seek a full BDSM relation, why would they pretend to be things they are not and feed potential partners that bs?
Because they can? The internet has given them such an abundant mass of information, first-person-experiences to read about, that it is easy to mirror that "knowledge" and pass it as own ... and this is just a "normal" pattern for many pepople, be it on professional or friendly compettitive grounds... who really will admit to not having a clue abot something you are obviously showing an interest in? Insecurity is so much part of most of us and when making new contacts there will be taken most desperate measures at times to hide that-
- and then THAT in a Dominant? Oh goodness, now how could that work? *ooops, don't slide on my dripping sarcasm here*

I think for each deliberate pretender/predator there are dozens who just don't know better and think they are cool.


Seriously - I think there is just much bullshitting going on on all dating-markets of the world - no more or less I would like to think in a BDSM context than in all other types of relations. It only may be a bit less tollerated because the spectre of expectations and potential damage is wider.

But I would thinik that if there was any secure way to "weed it out" or "weed through it quickly" I would appreciate hearing it!


Hecate who took about an hour to finish this post beween work so hopefully this thread hasn't moved too far from the pont I was trying to reply to

Hecate, I agree with you and you have expressed it better than I can. One line you wrote: "I think for each deliberate pretender/predator there are dozens who just don't know better and think they are cool. " really is the essence of what I'm concerned about.
I usually recognize a predator fairly easily. Unfortunately, some of the imitators are very slick con artists who parrot what they have read or heard with ease and it is more difficult to identify them. I'll post a new thread and perhaps we will glean something useful.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Drifting off the Boredom and into the Bullshit

.. and this is only meant symbolic, mind you!


Just a little intermidiate thought on the bs / players issue...

How do we define players?
As people who are pretending to want BDSM (pressumably we read it as TPE 24/7 in that context) as opposed to some kinky sex which is what actually they really want.

Why don't they then just say so?
Have we considered they might not be able to admit that to themselves let alone to potential play partners? Because in this ohhhh so wonderfull and "no pain" cyber realm it is frowned upon on most places to just want a kinked lay in an otherwise 'regular' relation as oppposed to a fully fledged 24/7 TPE?

Even that aside, even given they do seek a full BDSM relation, why would they pretend to be things they are not and feed potential partners that bs?
Because they can? The internet has given them such an abundant mass of information, first-person-experiences to read about, that it is easy to mirror that "knowledge" and pass it as own ... and this is just a "normal" pattern for many pepople, be it on professional or friendly compettitive grounds... who really will admit to not having a clue abot something you are obviously showing an interest in? Insecurity is so much part of most of us and when making new contacts there will be taken most desperate measures at times to hide that-
- and then THAT in a Dominant? Oh goodness, now how could that work? *ooops, don't slide on my dripping sarcasm here*

I think for each deliberate pretender/predator there are dozens who just don't know better and think they are cool.


Seriously - I think there is just much bullshitting going on on all dating-markets of the world - no more or less I would like to think in a BDSM context than in all other types of relations. It only may be a bit less tollerated because the spectre of expectations and potential damage is wider.

But I would thinik that if there was any secure way to "weed it out" or "weed through it quickly" I would appreciate hearing it!


Hecate who took about an hour to finish this post beween work so hopefully this thread hasn't moved too far from the pont I was trying to reply to

I just had to quote the entire passage as I think it bares reading more than once.

I wonder really how hard it is though to admit one is just looking for kinky sex..sex chat rooms and XXX sites abound on the net. I am more inclined to suspect it is the family like feeling some get from the BDSM inclusion.

Kinky sex seldom comes with hugz and kisses in the cyber world.

In real time the numbers seeking kinky sex under the umbrella of the BDSM terminology is just as high. Removing their voices is much simpler in My opinion.

I have no problem with any style...just call it like it is..simple enough one would think...and do I believe some just think they are cool with a little info at their disposal..absolutely...but after awhile even they must face reality each night when they close their eyes.

Bull Shit is Bull Shit no matter which Bull Shits!

 

[Hecate]

Re: Re: Drifting off the Boredom and into the Bullshit

I wonder really how hard it is though to admit one is just looking for kinky sex..sex chat rooms and XXX sites abound on the net. I am more inclined to suspect it is the family like feeling some get from the BDSM inclusion.

You are right on The Net Shadowsdream. The quantity of kinky sex offers is HUGE ... but have you ever heard someone say they go there and that is exactly what they want? I never have!

Have I heard the "excuse" of wanting to educate themselves seriously on the lifestyle while visiting exactly those cyber-corners? You bet I have!

It is my perception that it is simply a "lable" thing again - BDSM is a high ethic standard compared to perverted porn ideas, if you understand what I mean.

Even here we are so much talking about the trust, caring, responsibilities that come with a BDSM relation - so someone just seeking a kinky lay may think: Hm - I will sound so shallow and will never get those chicks to agree to the perverted actions I have in mind - so I pretend to be all about psychology and lifestyle, that will make i so much less dodgy and sleezy!

Do that long enough and you will start to believe it - just because you will feel better looking into your own face in the mirror each morning if having a "valid reason" for doing something society might not approve of.

This is where the "BDSM family feel" cuts in. It is always nice to be respected by society for what you want - even if it is the not-so respected BDSm society at least. But fact is, hardly any BDSM community is receptive of those who not care for the social / psychological aspects but merely look for top/bottom sex.

Again, it is NO EXCUSE - and as has been so eloquently stated the fact remains that

Bull Shit is Bull Shit no matter which Bull Shits!

Which on the other hand makes me wonder: should we try and incorporate a more "happy feel" for those recreational BDSM'ers so they can openly admit to what they want without loosing the family feel? Or would that compromise our own belives and value systems too much?

 

[zipman]

Re: Drifting off the Boredom and into the Bullshit

.. and this is only meant symbolic, mind you!

Just a little intermidiate thought on the bs / players issue...

How do we define players?
As people who are pretending to want BDSM (pressumably we read it as TPE 24/7 in that context) as opposed to some kinky sex which is what actually they really want.

Why don't they then just say so?
Have we considered they might not be able to admit that to themselves let alone to potential play partners? Because in this ohhhh so wonderfull and "no pain" cyber realm it is frowned upon on most places to just want a kinked lay in an otherwise 'regular' relation as oppposed to a fully fledged 24/7 TPE?

<snip>


Hecate who took about an hour to finish this post beween work so hopefully this thread hasn't moved too far from the pont I was trying to reply to

Well then, I guess I am a player, although to be honest I never thought of myself that way before.

To me, BDSM is a continuum, both with respect to whether you are Dominant versus Subimissive as well as the way that you choose to incorporate BDSM into your life (24/7 vs bedroom only). Personally, I have always favored quality over quantity. There are choices to be made, and we all have to make them for ourselves, for what is best for us.

Perhaps it is more black and white than I thought it was.
Perhaps not.