Bravo, Capt. Picard

[minsue]

For 'Dita

I'll offer up my own poquito espanol. (how do you type the n with the ~ ??) I remember little from my 4 years of high school spanish, but I do remember (I think...) the poem I had to write.

No quiero amarte,
Pero no tengo alternativo
Me corazon me rige
Y mi alma es cautiva
No hay nada tan deprimente
Como amor no correspondido

I only remember it because I've always loved the way it sounds en espanol. Of course, on translation it's even worse than the rest of the poems I wrote at 15.

 

[SadieRose]

Yes, but it's no reason to not protest and rant or whinge, eh? Orale.

I can rant well enough, but I have no answers beyond hitting the perpetrators with sticks until they stop being naughty boys and girls, which only perpetuates the culture of violence. *hefty sigh*

 

[Guest]

Minimin, that's a lovely poema. The ñ is found in MS Word via 'insert symbols'. Sometimes I'm a stereotypically lazy Mexican and don't bother to do the insert thing.

P.

 

[rgraham666]

A little story to start off.

About twenty years ago I was eating dinner in a restaurant, reading as usual.

When I went to pay for my meal, I put the book down on the counter and the person behind the register got a look at the title, "How to Make War".

"We wouldn't have served you, if we had known that was what you were reading," was his comment.

My reply was "If I was reading a book on cancer, would you have assumed I was in favour of that as well?"

I think the key word here is gratuitous. That is, to me, an action without context to the plot. It can be done for many reasons. For the FX people to show off, for the director to prove his superiority with camera angles and lighting, or most commonly, because the people creating have nothing useful to say at this point.

Violence in movies, even violence against women, can have a point. When speaking of Peckinpah, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Straw Dogs. A hideously violent and horrifying movie. But one with a good story. And one that uses horror to highlight what was wrong about the actions of the protagonists. I was, I hope, just as horrified as any woman at what happened to Susannah York's character. It made me less likely to be violent to women, not more.

I'm also thinking of Monster. I haven't seen it yet, but being about a famous serial killer, it's certain to be violent. And in this case it's violence against men. But the violence in the movie, from what I've heard, highlights the main character, both her violence and rather pathetic nature, and it isn't gratuitous for this reason.

So, I'm not against violence per se. Violence is a fact of life. If you know where to look, your backyard on a warm summer's day has a higher body count than Iraq does in a month.

But if we ignore it, make it disappear from our communications with one another, we will be unprepared for it. This will just make it stronger and more frequent. We won't be able to recognize the signs that it is coming and be able to head it off.

I am against gratuitous violence. Violence without context, removes context from the greater picture. But no action takes place out of context, and they always have consequences.

 

[SadieRose]

Re: For 'Dita

(how do you type the n with the ~ ??)

MS keyboard shortcut is ALT+0241

 

[minsue]

Re: Re: For 'Dita

Thanks to you both. Unfortunately, I don't have Word. So far all I have found is that I can copy it from elsewhere & paste it when I'm feeling truly anal-retentive.

ñ

I suppose it'll do!

 

[Guest]

rgraham666: very well said, thanks for getting the point. I didn't want to mention Straw Dogs, can hardly bear to keep it in mind more than a moment, but you spoke of it well.

I want to see Monster, but hesitate for the violence. However, another brilliant film with much violence (of emotions too) that serves the story is 21 Grams. It ends hopefully for me and I plan to see it again.

Perdita

 

[kellycummings]

A little story to start off.

About twenty years ago I was eating dinner in a restaurant, reading as usual.

When I went to pay for my meal, I put the book down on the counter and the person behind the register got a look at the title, "How to Make War".

"We wouldn't have served you, if we had known that was what you were reading," was his comment.

My reply was "If I was reading a book on cancer, would you have assumed I was in favour of that as well?"

I think the key word here is gratuitous. That is, to me, an action without context to the plot. It can be done for many reasons. For the FX people to show off, for the director to prove his superiority with camera angles and lighting, or most commonly, because the people creating have nothing useful to say at this point.

Violence in movies, even violence against women, can have a point. When speaking of Peckinpah, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Straw Dogs. A hideously violent and horrifying movie. But one with a good story. And one that uses horror to highlight what was wrong about the actions of the protagonists. I was, I hope, just as horrified as any woman at what happened to Susannah York's character. It made me less likely to be violent to women, not more.

I'm also thinking of Monster. I haven't seen it yet, but being about a famous serial killer, it's certain to be violent. And in this case it's violence against men. But the violence in the movie, from what I've heard, highlights the main character, both her violence and rather pathetic nature, and it isn't gratuitous for this reason.

So, I'm not against violence per se. Violence is a fact of life. If you know where to look, your backyard on a warm summer's day has a higher body count than Iraq does in a month.

But if we ignore it, make it disappear from our communications with one another, we will be unprepared for it. This will just make it stronger and more frequent. We won't be able to recognize the signs that it is coming and be able to head it off.

I am against gratuitous violence. Violence without context, removes context from the greater picture. But no action takes place out of context, and they always have consequences.

Now this is what I was trying to say last night and just couldn't get it out. Maybe it was too late or something. Anyway, I agree. The movie itself has much to do with it. PS went after Kill Bill as an example and I suppose it's a matter of opinion as to whether or not the violence is acceptable. It was gratuitous but then that was the point of the whole thing so it can be argued that it's ok.
I think it comes down to what your tastes are. If you're entertained then fine. If you're not, you don't see it. I've never been one to believe that movie violence has adverse effects on society because I think people are smarter than that but I'm sure there are plenty of examples to prove me wrong. I'll still go see a violent movie if it's something I want to see. I enjoy a good action movie as much as the next person. I won't go see Friday the 13th part 55 or anything like that but if someone wants to then have at it.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Re: For 'Dita

Thanks to you both. Unfortunately, I don't have Word. So far all I have found is that I can copy it from elsewhere & paste it when I'm feeling truly anal-retentive.

&Ntilde = '&' + 'Ntilde'
&ntilde = '&' + 'ntilde'

Tht works for anywhere that will accept HTML symbols -- which lit does; even though "HTML is OFF" in posts the HTML symbols are blocked, just the HTML tags.

In other applications, the PC keyboard driver allow you to type characters by holding down the Alt key and typing the decimal numeric value on the number pad (it does NOT work with the numbers at the top of the keyboard)

The problem with that method here, is that the numeric values of 209 and 241 respectively don't produce consistent results becaus the characters aren't standardized with all applications:

Alt-209 = '-' (which is a hyphen on my screen)
Alt-241 = '±' (Whichis a Plus/Minus symbol on my screen.)

 

[minsue]

Re: Re: Re: Re: For 'Dita

&Ntilde = '&' + 'Ntilde'
&ntilde = '&' + 'ntilde'

Tht works for anywhere that will accept HTML symbols -- which lit does; even though "HTML is OFF" in posts the HTML symbols are blocked, just the HTML tags.

&ntilde
WooHoo! Got it! Thanks.

In other applications, the PC keyboard driver allow you to type characters by holding down the Alt key and typing the decimal numeric value on the number pad (it does NOT work with the numbers at the top of the keyboard)

The problem with that method here, is that the numeric values of 209 and 241 respectively don't produce consistent results becaus the characters aren't standardized with all applications:

Alt-209 = '-' (which is a hyphen on my screen)
Alt-241 = '±' (Whichis a Plus/Minus symbol on my screen.)

That would explain why it didn't work for me. My laptop doesn't have a number pad, just the ones at the top of the board.

Thanks again!

 

[Guest]

Brava, Miñsue. - P.

 

[Liar]

Now this is what I was trying to say last night and just couldn't get it out.

Me too. It was bedtime and I was reeeally tired when I plunged head first into that discussion. I do hope that I came off as making at least a little bit sense. Anyway, since the discussion, and even the discussion on weither we should discuss or not, has been dealt with in my absence by raph, perdita, kelly et al, I really don't have much to add.

To sum up my view:
* I'm the biggest pacifist in a pair of shoes. I couldn't hurt someone even if I tried to.
* Violence sucks, but is a big part of human history, nature and reality.
* When making films (or writing books, music, making art or stageplays - no difference really) about violent reality, including violence against man, woman and platypus alike is justified and has redeeming value.
* Many brainless entertainment slaughter orgies falls out of this criteria.
* Proportionally there are much more violence against women in real life than there is in Hollywood lficks these days.
* That sucks, and it's Real Life that needs to adjust.
* No matter if he was off the chart with this statement or not, Patric Steward is still a helluva spiffy actor.

And one last question, if someone cares to answer:
In literature, heads have rolled and blood has flowed in streams from the old greek dramas up to our days, and is present in most great literary masterpieces in one form or another. Not seldom as graphic and ungracious as in movies. How come noone protests about that? Is it the choice of media that makes the difference? The audience? The commersialism that comes with the expenses of producing cinema?

 

[shereads]

Oh, ella, you brought a tear to my right eye. (I wet my knickers whenever he said that.)

Perdita

Did you sometimes fantasize about drizzling warm olive oil onto your palms and then giving Captain Picard a scalp massage? Or more accurately, using the scalp massage as an excuse to feel his scalp and make it all shiny and slick?

You didn't?

Me neither.

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo, Capt. Picard

Excuse my arrogance, if you will, or not, but there are about two people on the AH I think substantively intelligent enough to have a discussion with.

Perdita

Really? Who is the other one?

 

[Weird Harold]

And one last question, if someone cares to answer:
In literature, heads have rolled and blood has flowed in streams from the old greek dramas up to our days, and is present in most great literary masterpieces in one form or another. Not seldom as graphic and ungracious as in movies. How come noone protests about that? Is it the choice of media that makes the difference? The audience? The commersialism that comes with the expenses of producing cinema?

An argument that I can at least understand, if not agree with completely, is that the ever increasing realism desensitizes people to violence.

I can read about "rivers of blood" and picture nothing more graphic than the swirl of blood going down the drain in Psycho.

Actually "seeing" somone's head explode in a theater with a sound system that makes a gun battle louder than any real gun battle could be -- is just a little bit more intense than the images created by the words, "his head exploded."

 

[Guest]

In literature, heads have rolled and blood has flowed in streams from the old greek dramas up to our days, and is present in most great literary masterpieces in one form or another. Not seldom as graphic and ungracious as in movies. How come noone protests about that? Is it the choice of media that makes the difference? The audience? The commersialism that comes with the expenses of producing cinema?

Liar, for me "gratuitous" is the key word. People often speak of the violence in Shakespeare, but the acts occur mostly off-stage but for a few key incidents, e.g., Gloucester's eyes being plucked out. It happens on stage but is generally not seen, he faces backstage. It's the language and the characters who bask in it that makes one appalled, "Out! vile jelly." Hamlet's mortal combat is nearly superfluous, what the audience brings to it is all the language that came before, and all that is spoken as he and others finally "get" what has happened. It's art "above" entertainment.

When we get to films and their graphic capability, plus the fact that it is easy to "relate" to what appears to be "real", then it takes an artist not to be gratuitous. Multiply that by millions that see films, vs. those who read, and you've got a damaging effect on the culture.

Popular media seems to be defying the maxim, "The pen is mightier than the sword", but really those creating violence for consumption do not understand what it is that is mighty so we get visceral emptiness that numbs meaningfulness, and even distorts and harms us.

Perdita

 

[shereads]

Re: For 'Dita

I'll offer up my own poquito espanol.

My Spanish is embarrassingly poor for a Floridian, but enough to get by.
Btw, why do you offer your poquito exclusively to the Spanish?