Dealing with changing group dynamics

[Eilan]

you can get a doctorate here at lit??? i must enroll immediately.

One of the requirements for entering Lit's doctoral program is a 500-word essay on why penis size does/doesn't matter.

Furthermore, to get your degree you must complete a semester-long GB internship, among other things.

 

[Cathleen]

Eilan, I am seeing a good break in the schedule for the group to 're-group'. When you come back for the August meeting I think it is great timing to set some 'rules'. When people decide to come together for long term things there needs to be accepted expectations.

Discuss among yourselves, be open and honest and decide as a group what you'd like to see happen. The focus should be on the enjoyment of the group as a whole, personalities muck it up.

Perhaps before the August meeting you (or your friend) would consider sending a note/letter to the participants that it is time to talk about the group, what they'd like to change if anything, ideas about time, food etc. Everyone can come prepared to take fifteen or thirty minutes for those 'housekeeping' issues that all groups have.

 

[Eilan]

Eilan, I am seeing a good break in the schedule for the group to 're-group'. When you come back for the August meeting I think it is great timing to set some 'rules'. When people decide to come together for long term things there needs to be accepted expectations.

What's sad is that until recently, we didn't need "rules." However, I think that's probably the direction we'll be headed.

Perhaps before the August meeting you (or your friend) would consider sending a note/letter to the participants that it is time to talk about the group, what they'd like to change if anything, ideas about time, food etc. Everyone can come prepared to take fifteen or thirty minutes for those 'housekeeping' issues that all groups have.

My best friend is the semi-official group secretary. She tends to be the one who gets ahold of us when plans change--generally through mass emails. She's also aired some concerns that way because she's been reluctant to put the troublemakers on the spot.

It does look like we need to revisit some of these issues, though.

 

[rip_1_4_u]

I've participated in a lot of groups, in a "leadership" role and in "member/follower" role.

I've watched people with extremely poor social skills destroy groups, since they have irritated the group members so much, the members stopped participating.

It depends on the group and the "destroyer", but sometimes I"ve had to confront the "destroyer's" behavior in a group setting, since so many members were upset and wanted to see "a line drawn in the sand" so to speak. Also, I knew the socially aggressive person was intimidating members; so someone had to actually confront the "destroyer" for peace to "return once again to the kingdom".

Sometimes taking the socially inept person aside and letting them know which of their peculiar habits are upsetting group members can help. But often, they are socially inept since they refuse to listen to feedback...so strong "rules" have to be set in place on how the group operates; and just importantly, someone has to be willing to "enforce" the rules with the socially inept person/people. This can be trying to folks who just want to have fun!

But I've learned the hard way that being "nice" to people who are unreasonable, demanding, or just plain strange, is the quickest way to annihilate a group.

From a former "nice" girl

 

[Eilan]

An update (kind of)

In May, we moved the June meeting, which is going to be at my house, from Sunday to Saturday because Ms. AR thought she was going to be out of the country (though at that point she hadn't made ANY concrete plans, let alone reservations).

As it turns out, she won't be leaving until June 30, so we wouldn't have had to change the meeting date. However, she forgot that we were, in fact, changing the June meeting because of HER and her indecisiveness.

Oh, well. The meeting's a week from Saturday. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Ezzy]

In May, we moved the June meeting, which is going to be at my house, from Sunday to Saturday because Ms. AR thought she was going to be out of the country (though at that point she hadn't made ANY concrete plans, let alone reservations).

As it turns out, she won't be leaving until June 30, so we wouldn't have had to change the meeting date. However, she forgot that we were, in fact, changing the June meeting because of HER and her indecisiveness.

Oh, well. The meeting's a week from Saturday. I'll let you know how it goes.

I would be so tempted to get around to everyone else and change it back to the Sunday without telling her, then dress in your oldest housecoat and put your hair in curlers, have all the kids running around like they normally do, leave the house a mess.

Then when she turns up, tell her you changed it back to the Sunday night like it always is and you must have forgotten to tell her.

Be solicitous and say how you hope she wont be put out by it and that she will be able to attend the next day.

On the Sunday have the house as immaculate as it normally is, disappear the kids and make the perfect evening for everyone.

 

[Eilan]

I would be so tempted to get around to everyone else and change it back to the Sunday without telling her, then dress in your oldest housecoat and put your hair in curlers, have all the kids running around like they normally do, leave the house a mess.

Then when she turns up, tell her you changed it back to the Sunday night like it always is and you must have forgotten to tell her.

Be solicitous and say how you hope she wont be put out by it and that she will be able to attend the next day.

On the Sunday have the house as immaculate as it normally is, disappear the kids and make the perfect evening for everyone.

I have four small kids. My idea of an immaculate house is a little more "relaxed" than most people's.

If I REALLY wanted to piss her off, I'd let the kids stay for the meeting. She doesn't have kids, want kids, or like kids, so the rowdier and dirtier they are, the better. I'm not one to force my kids on others, but for her I could make an exception.

 

[silverwhisper]

eilan: i believe exceptional people warrant exceptional treatment...

ed

 

[oxphocker]

"she went into a mini-tirade about how bad low-carb diets are and how it's wrong to eliminate one food group."

This coming from the vegan? I don't know about anyone else, but my BS alarm would be going off like mad at that point.

She has a PhD, and she likes to lord this over people

Working with professors has shown me that they make mistakes just like anyone else...it's all just a denial of inadequacy.

resulted in the group walking in circles for 10 miles

Ooooo! This one burns me too, I've had someone do that to me...we were in NZ and she 'had' to find a place that served vegetarian. It took us over an hour to find a resturant she would agree with...Taupo only has like 10 blocks of the resturant/pub area!

I saw her send back a pot of hot water four times because it wasn't as hot as she liked, even though it was boiling.

Based on what I am hearing...it sounds like Ms AR just isn't happy if there isn't something she can complain about. "Oh, poor me...why isn't the world going exactly my way..."

Sorry but if she can't attend because of bad scheduling how does she ever get anywhere on time.

Everyone in life has problems getting places from time to time...I don't know about anyone else but unless it is serious, I am always 5-10 minutes early to anything I do (bad habit from teaching ) Anyway...the way I always look at it is being on time for something or someone shows that you have respect for that person's time. Being late all the time is like saying to someone, "eh...I'll show up when I feel like it, make a lame excuse, and it won't matter." To that my opinion would be to tell Ms CL, look...everyone else here (except for AR) seems to make it here on time and they want to be here; no one is making you show up and if you can't participate in an adult fashion then why are you even coming??

Something of a similar conversation with AR might work as well...treat her exactly like you would treat a small child, make the words small and understandable. If she goes the patronizing route, just finish up with, "if your going to act like a child all the time, then expect to be treated like one...this group is for adults, it's your choice to sit at the grown-ups table."

I know it sounds harsh, and I am one of the least agressive people I know...but one of the things I have learned about dealing with childish personalities is that you have to put the foot down and set the boundary, otherwise she is going to keep pushing you...

Good luck with that

 

[Eilan]

Welcome to Lit, oxphocker.

This coming from the vegan? I don't know about anyone else, but my BS alarm would be going off like mad at that point.

Yeah, I thought about pointing that out to her, but I doubt if she'd get it.

Working with professors has shown me that they make mistakes just like anyone else...it's all just a denial of inadequacy.

Yup. I used to be a part-time instructor, so I know exactly what that's like.

Ooooo! This one burns me too, I've had someone do that to me...we were in NZ and she 'had' to find a place that served vegetarian. It took us over an hour to find a resturant she would agree with...Taupo only has like 10 blocks of the resturant/pub area!

Apparently, not only did the restaurant have to have vegetarian fare, but it also had to serve fresh-brewed unsweetened iced tea, NOT the fountain-dispensed or bottled stuff. One of the women who went on the trip with her (a fellow book group member, actually) was SO pissed that she ordered the largest steak on the menu and gushed about how delicious it was.

Everyone in life has problems getting places from time to time...I don't know about anyone else but unless it is serious, I am always 5-10 minutes early to anything I do (bad habit from teaching ) Anyway...the way I always look at it is being on time for something or someone shows that you have respect for that person's time.

I'm usually early, too. I'd rather be an hour early than a minute late. I'm weird that way.

If she goes the patronizing route, just finish up with, "if your going to act like a child all the time, then expect to be treated like one...this group is for adults, it's your choice to sit at the grown-ups table."

I have a kiddie table. Maybe I'll set it up for her and provide her with a sippy cup and Pooh Bear plates and silverware.

 

[Quoll]

Do you have a naughty corner?
You will just have to tell her it`s not a septable.

(This is so going to be wasted if you don`t watch that show.)

 

[Eilan]

Do you have a naughty corner?
You will just have to tell her it`s not a septable.

(This is so going to be wasted if you don`t watch that show.)

Are you talking about Rugrats?

Hell, if there's a naughty corner, I want to be in it!

 

[Quoll]

Are you talking about Rugrats?

Hell, if there's a naughty corner, I want to be in it!

No not rugrats, love it though. Was talking about Supernanny and her inability to pronounce the word acceptable.

I like your idea better, leave them and go play in the naughty corner.

 

[Eilan]

No not rugrats, love it though. Was talking about Supernanny and her inability to pronounce the word acceptable.

I thought it sounded like something Tommy on Rugrats would say.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen Supernanny, mainly because it's not on Nickelodeon. We ARE talking about a person and not a goat, right?

I like your idea better, leave them and go play in the naughty corner.

Good lord, Ms. Anal Retentive would freak out! She seems a bit, um, asexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I guess.

On the bright side, maybe she'd quit. At the last meeting I had a lot of fun explaining to her what BDSM and GLBT meant (which had NOTHING to do with the book we were supposed to read). Boy, did she squirm! But SHE'S the one who asked!

 

[Quoll]

I thought it sounded like something Tommy on Rugrats would say.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen Supernanny, mainly because it's not on Nickelodeon. We ARE talking about a person and not a goat, right?

Good lord, Ms. Anal Retentive would freak out! She seems a bit, um, asexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I guess.

On the bright side, maybe she'd quit. At the last meeting I had a lot of fun explaining to her what BDSM and GLBT meant (which had NOTHING to do with the book we were supposed to read). Boy, did she squirm! But SHE'S the one who asked!

Now you just might have hit on the perfect solution and she would go of her own accord.
Reminds me of a story I was told recently by an ex librarian friend.
Apparently someone had left a bondage magazine in a book and a Ms. AR slammed the book down on the counter with the intention of complaining about it.
My friend said "Ma'am, you really should keep this kind of thing at home." she nearly had a heart attack before storming out.

 

[silverwhisper]

bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

 

[Eilan]

Tomorrow's the day

Tomorrow's meeting is at my house. For the past couple of days, I've been trying to figure out what foods to serve because at the moment I have my own dietary preferences which I'm trying to reconcile with my guests' needs/preferences. I think I have it all settled, though.

I had dinner with my best friend last night, and she told me that she has left multiple messages with Ms. CL about the meeting date/time change. Ms. CL, however, hasn't returned the calls, which is somewhat out of character for her. My fear is that Ms. CL will show up at my house on Sunday instead of Saturday.

My best friend and I have decided that the two of us will present a united front, regardless of what the other members decide to do. Since we make the schedule months in advance, we're going to propose that the meeting remain at the agreed-upon day/time, unless the host has a schedule conflict and is unable to switch with another member. If someone can't make it on a particular month, then we'll see that person next month.

That may not make everyone happy, but it's easier than trying to cater to everyone's schedule/wishes.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

 

[Ezzy]

Tomorrow's meeting is at my house. For the past couple of days, I've been trying to figure out what foods to serve because at the moment I have my own dietary preferences which I'm trying to reconcile with my guests' needs/preferences. I think I have it all settled, though.

I had dinner with my best friend last night, and she told me that she has left multiple messages with Ms. CL about the meeting date/time change. Ms. CL, however, hasn't returned the calls, which is somewhat out of character for her. My fear is that Ms. CL will show up at my house on Sunday instead of Saturday.

My best friend and I have decided that the two of us will present a united front, regardless of what the other members decide to do. Since we make the schedule months in advance, we're going to propose that the meeting remain at the agreed-upon day/time, unless the host has a schedule conflict and is unable to switch with another member. If someone can't make it on a particular month, then we'll see that person next month.

That may not make everyone happy, but it's easier than trying to cater to everyone's schedule/wishes.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Go for it...Sickem women!

And in some ways I want to have CL turn up on the wrong day, so you can say, "How sorry you were that she couldn't take a hint!"

 

[Quoll]

Go for it...Sickem women!

And in some ways I want to have CL turn up on the wrong day, so you can say, "How sorry you were that she couldn't take a hint!"

Agreed 100%

 

[Eilan]

Everything's all ready. I decided to fix something that could be made the night before, so tomorrow, all I have to do is a bit of kitchen cleaning and living-room carpet sweeping. I have paper plates and napkins and plastic utensils/cups, so cleanup tomorrow will be a snap.

Yay me!

 

[Quoll]

So by now Ms AR will be bitching because you didn`t get her particular brand of organically raised tofu which her body clock can`t tolerate until after 3a.m on Tuesdays.
Ms CL has either just arrived as everyone else is leaving, or is still yet to show up.
Hope it all went to plan.

 

[Eilan]

Update

So by now Ms AR will be bitching because you didn`t get her particular brand of organically raised tofu which her body clock can`t tolerate until after 3a.m on Tuesdays.
Ms CL has either just arrived as everyone else is leaving, or is still yet to show up.
Hope it all went to plan.

Things went more smoothly than I expected. I was pleasantly surprised and grateful to avoid a confrontation.

Ms. AR had to have her hot tea, though I have no idea how anyone can drink hot tea when it's 90 degrees outside.

Ms. CL got the message about the day/time change, and she was only 20 minutes late. For her, that's like being on time.

The next meeting isn't until the end of August (we always take a month off during the summer). It WILL be at 3:00 regardless of what Ms. AR's body clock prefers. My friend and I insisted on that.

Apparently Ms. AR finds one of our future authors offensive. At the end of the year, we're reading Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim by David Sedaris. She's not read this particular book, but she started Me Talk Pretty One Day and was so offended that she didn't finish it. If she decides to bitch later, I'm going to insist that she just skip that meeting. I've already bought the book, dammit!

I might be traveling with these folks in July. That could be interesting. Or ugly.

 

[Quoll]

Things went more smoothly than I expected. I was pleasantly surprised and grateful to avoid a confrontation.

Ms. AR had to have her hot tea, though I have no idea how anyone can drink hot tea when it's 90 degrees outside.

Ms. CL got the message about the day/time change, and she was only 20 minutes late. For her, that's like being on time.

The next meeting isn't until the end of August (we always take a month off during the summer). It WILL be at 3:00 regardless of what Ms. AR's body clock prefers. My friend and I insisted on that.

Apparently Ms. AR finds one of our future authors offensive. At the end of the year, we're reading Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim by David Sedaris. She's not read this particular book, but she started Me Talk Pretty One Day and was so offended that she didn't finish it. If she decides to bitch later, I'm going to insist that she just skip that meeting. I've already bought the book, dammit!

I might be traveling with these folks in July. That could be interesting. Or ugly.

I`m sure if you take along the right reading material you could have a very pleasant trip (Bondage Fairies) or take a talking book and plug yourself in.

 

[Eilan]

I`m sure if you take along the right reading material you could have a very pleasant trip (Bondage Fairies) or take a talking book and plug yourself in.

I may not even go. My hubby retires July 9th, but he's looking for another job at the moment. If he gets one quickly enough, I'll have to stay home with the kiddies.

I've traveled with Ms. CL, but not with Ms. AR. I know which one's the lesser of two evils.

 

[Eilan]

Bump

Same group, different issue.

Our September meeting was yesterday. The host, actually a very good friend of mine, put together a wonderful late/lite lunch. The discussion was a good one as well. Things went well, except for one issue.

My friend has a dog. A two-year-old (spayed) female Black Lab with, if the tongue's any indication, some Chow mixed in. The dog is very, very jumpy. Definitely a one-family dog.

We all know from past experience not to approach or try to pet the dog, but yesterday was worse than usual. Every time we'd shift position or make a sudden movement, the dog would jump up and start growling and snapping. At one point, she wouldn't let Ms. CL (who was about 45 minutes late, BTW) go into the dining room.

My friend was apologetic, but she explained that the dog would make too much noise if she were confined to her crate. It's her house and her dog, so I understand that she has the right to do what she wants, but, honestly, we were all a little nervous. Hell, I was afraid that someone might get bitten, and I'm generally not afraid of dogs.

We probably won't have to go back to her house for at least another six months. In the meantime, how might we gently tell our friend that her dog scares the hell out of us without offending her or sounding like we're making unreasonable demands?