Defining Love

[Cathleen]

Is love static? Is it the person that adapts or is it love? My mind finds thoughts to support both, but can that be true?

I don't like answering a question with a question, drives me batty, but I'm stumped here. It's early morning for me and I'm trying to recall F.Scott Peck's thoughts about love in The Road Less Traveled. I remember him mentioning discipline as a means of our spiritual evolution and he defined love as a willingness to extend ourselves for our or another's spiritual growth. Using the definition of discipline as cultivation and education I can see the idea of evolution here.

I think love is circular in energy. Maybe that adaptability issue is our being human, bringing our imperfection to what might be a perfect state of being - a state of love. One thing I know for certain in this world is that our imperfection can throw any perfect thing into a wobble. Maybe it is us that doesn't adapt, our will mucks things up. Maybe it is us that make love more of a straight line instead of a circle. (Not ro pander 'The Circle of Life' idea.)

(I really dislike not sleeping.)

 

[Cathleen]

After Yank's mention of Paul's epistle to the Corinthians, I went and reread it. I found this along the way and said 'well yeah' to this...


Have you ever been in love? Horrible isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable. It opens your chest and it opens up your heart and it means that someone can get inside you and mess you up. You build up all these defenses, you build up a whole suit of armor, so that nothing can hurt you, then one stupid person, no different from any other stupid person, wanders into your stupid life... You give them a piece of you. They didn't ask for it. They did something dumb one day, like kiss you or smile at you, and then your life isn't your own anymore. Love takes hostages. It gets inside you. It eats you out and leaves you crying in the darkness, so simple a phrase like 'maybe we should be just friends' turns into a glass splinter working its way into your heart. It hurts. Not just in the imagination. Not just in the mind. It's a soul-hurt, a real gets-inside-you-and-rips-you-apart pain. I hate love.

The character "Rose Walker" in The Sandman #65 by Neil Gaiman (the Sandman was originally a comic book series).




Now onto what was a funny and slightly embarassing mistake I made. I was to read the familar passage at a brother's wedding. My uncle was officiating at the ceremony and he assigned me that passage to read. I practiced the reading over and over, but the phrase "I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal" was tripping me up -- most notably the word gong. I kept saying bong. I got the giggles every time I practiced and asked my uncle if I could just skip that line... nope, no such luck. So wedding day arrives, all the bridesmaids get all gussied up and head out. I think I was maybe second in the procession and the only thing on my mind was that dumb gong. My shoes were a bit too big and I tripped and came out of one while going down the isle. I had to go back a few steps for it and of course I laugh - who wouldn't?

Fine, I already have my blunder I think, so I'm good to go with the reading. I'm going along just fine - even I'm impressed - but I know it's coming. It's coming up next, I'm trying to forget it... I couldn't of course. So, "blah, blah, blah, I have become a noisy bb...ggong or a clanging cymbal". I struggled with that damn b like nobody's business. I probably would have gotten away with it if I hadn't looked at my brother and then my uncle - it took ALL the inner gusto I could muster to proceed. I was home free after that and it was a great wedding.

 

[Lyrical Fool]

Yay for this thread again !

Having fallen in love since last I posted, and seeing the thread again, I figured I'd see what I had posted originally, and if my definition had changed.

It hasn't

Anyway, a couple of thoughts ... (Forgive me for not crediting the authors, but I sort of skimmed through the thread)

The odds can be very long, indeed. Consider the obstacles that two people must overcome if they fall in love after meeting online but live on different continents. Consider the odds of a relationship surviving long periods of separation. Consider the odds of a relationship surviving despite major differences in age, religious beliefs, economic status, or political beliefs. It's all well and good to say that love will find a way but the truth of the matter is that love can't always find a way.

Love is NOT a relationship. People CAN fall in love over the 'net. I think it happens far less often than people think it does (i.e. REAL love vs. perceived love), but it does happen.

The odds of a relationship surviving are another bucket of fish altogether.

I firmly believe that love is eternal energy. It began before us, it ends after us. Like a flowing river that we manage to jump in and out of every once in a while.

Only, that's not an entirely accurate example, because I still also believe that if you can fall "out" of love, you never really loved in the first place.

But my brain really isn't working now, so I'll leave with two quotes...

"Love is giving someone power to destroy us, and trusting them enough not to" (Paraphrased, and author unknown)

And along with that ...
"Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." (Theodore Roethke)

And one of my favorites:

"To love is not a state -- it is a direction." (Simone Weil)

*bump* for a great thread, even if I can't add much to it at the moment

 

[Lyrical Fool]

Fine, I already have my blunder I think, so I'm good to go with the reading. I'm going along just fine - even I'm impressed - but I know it's coming. It's coming up next, I'm trying to forget it... I couldn't of course. So, "blah, blah, blah, I have become a noisy bb...ggong or a clanging cymbal". I struggled with that damn b like nobody's business. I probably would have gotten away with it if I hadn't looked at my brother and then my uncle - it took ALL the inner gusto I could muster to proceed. I was home free after that and it was a great wedding.

That's too cute ! I KNOW I would have made the same mistake.

 

[Cathleen]

That's too cute ! I KNOW I would have made the same mistake.

Great to see you again Lyrical... thanks for the additions to ponder. My brain is off for the night now as well, so I'll have to check back in the morning.

 

[Lyrical Fool]

Obviously, my brain was NOT working.

I couldn't come up with a decent example, and I couldn't count to three.

I'll blame it on the cough syrup.

And thanks, Cathleen. I was going through my PM box the other night and found the very sweet ones from you from when I first starting posting on Lit.

Made me smile

 

[Cathleen]

Obviously, my brain was NOT working.

I couldn't come up with a decent example, and I couldn't count to three.

I'll blame it on the cough syrup.

And thanks, Cathleen. I was going through my PM box the other night and found the very sweet ones from you from when I first starting posting on Lit.

Made me smile

I'm glad for the smile... I hope the cough isn't too bad and won't last long. Feel better.

 

[Avery_Chisholm]

One of my favorite threads 'Defining Love' is no longer active but the questions and interest remain. Recently I've noticed lots of threads describing relationship trouble, many wondering about the idea of being 'in love' and loving someone. So I thought I'd just openly steal the original thread's original post.



To begin: What is your definition of love?

What experiences helped shape your definition?

What have you read that helped form your definition?

Taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify?

What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?

What freedom do we gain through love? What constraints do we take on through love?

What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

i don't think it can be defined as its different for everybody

 

[midwestyankee]

Cate, as always your posts have added flavor and depth to the discussion. I too have read that passage in wedding ceremonies and each time a different aspect of it rose up to challenge me. It would be interesting to go back to it in a quiet moment now to see which part resonates best.

Weddings and funerals are never quite perfect unless there is humor like your dropped shoe or that recalcitrant "b" that wouldn't leave your consciousness and begged to be released. Thanks for the smile.

 

[midwestyankee]

i don't think it can be defined as its different for everybody

Avery, it's good to see you. But, I want to differ with you a little bit. While we all experience love a little differently, even from one relationship to another, if our experiences weren't somehow related we would not even have a common word for what we know as love.

A simpler example is color. If I write of a green leaf, we both know many different shades, hues, and intensities of green from all the many leaves that we have seen in our lives. Yet, despite this variety, neither of us is reminded of a rose petal or the color of peanut butter when we see the word "green." Just so with the word "love."

 

[bobsgirl]

...
Have you ever been in love? Horrible isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable. It opens your chest and it opens up your heart and it means that someone can get inside you and mess you up. You build up all these defenses, you build up a whole suit of armor, so that nothing can hurt you, then one stupid person, no different from any other stupid person, wanders into your stupid life... You give them a piece of you. They didn't ask for it. They did something dumb one day, like kiss you or smile at you, and then your life isn't your own anymore. Love takes hostages. It gets inside you. It eats you out and leaves you crying in the darkness, so simple a phrase like 'maybe we should be just friends' turns into a glass splinter working its way into your heart. It hurts. Not just in the imagination. Not just in the mind. It's a soul-hurt, a real gets-inside-you-and-rips-you-apart pain. I hate love.

The character "Rose Walker" in The Sandman #65 by Neil Gaiman (the Sandman was originally a comic book series)...

It could very well be that I have become a cynic, as I find this quote comes closest to any I've read in this thread to my views, at least as far as romantic love is concerned. (Ironic that it comes from a comic book character.)

I do think love is adaptable but not without great pain to one or both of the ones involved.

Love is wonderful and necessary to a full life and a full soul, but it always ends in pain.

 

[Cathleen]

It could very well be that I have become a cynic, as I find this quote comes closest to any I've read in this thread to my views, at least as far as romantic love is concerned. (Ironic that it comes from a comic book character.)

I do think love is adaptable but not without great pain to one or both of the ones involved.

Love is wonderful and necessary to a full life and a full soul, but it always ends in pain.

Yeah, I didn't like the reaction I had to the quote at all. Far too close to my real experiences.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Allowing Yank's comment above....I think my logic was kind of... love is adaptability...people come together in love but grow apart as time goes on....not growing in the same direct proportion...their love fading...not being able to adapt to each other.....often separating...whether physically in divorce...or in some other less complete fashion.

Does that make any sense GG?

Thank you for the explanation

 

[GiveawayGirl]

GG, my friend, good to see you here. I'll take the rap for suggesting that love is adaptable and not, more accurately, the people who do the loving. I was merely copying the style of Paul in his much-read epistle to the Corinthians.

Thanks for the clarification, Yank.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

It could very well be that I have become a cynic, as I find this quote comes closest to any I've read in this thread to my views, at least as far as romantic love is concerned. (Ironic that it comes from a comic book character.)

I do think love is adaptable but not without great pain to one or both of the ones involved.

Love is wonderful and necessary to a full life and a full soul, but it always ends in pain.

Everyone is a cynic about love at some point in time, BG. I think it's part of the process.

Personally, I think the great pain comes from a lack of adaptability. I think the key to preventing great pain is to learn to ebb and flow within a loving relationship. Every relationship is a living, breathing thing. It needs care and nurturing to truly flourish. Sometimes a nasty old frost comes and kills it without warning but that doesn't diminish the beauty of its life.

 

[Cathleen]

Everyone is a cynic about love at some point in time, BG. I think it's part of the process.

Personally, I think the great pain comes from a lack of adaptability. I think the key to preventing great pain is to learn to ebb and flow within a loving relationship. Every relationship is a living, breathing thing. It needs care and nurturing to truly flourish. Sometimes a nasty old frost comes and kills it without warning but that doesn't diminish the beauty of its life.

GG, this is beautifully thought out and expressed. Thank you for sharing.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

GG, this is beautifully thought out and expressed. Thank you for sharing.

Cathleen! I am always happy to see you. Thank you for the kind words.

 

[Cathleen]

Cathleen! I am always happy to see you. Thank you for the kind words.

As am I to see you, so glad you've been posting.

I found myself a 'hat' av, perhaps it's time to change for a little while.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

As am I to see you, so glad you've been posting.

I found myself a 'hat' av, perhaps it's time to change for a little while.

I absolutely LOVE it! It's perfect!

 

[Cathleen]

I absolutely LOVE it! It's perfect!

Why thank you very much... I have retreated into hiding. Although it seems I'm not so good at it.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Why thank you very much... I have retreated into hiding. Although it seems I'm not so good at it.

Don't think of it as hiding. Think of it as creating a little mystery.

 

[midwestyankee]

Everyone is a cynic about love at some point in time, BG. I think it's part of the process.

Personally, I think the great pain comes from a lack of adaptability. I think the key to preventing great pain is to learn to ebb and flow within a loving relationship. Every relationship is a living, breathing thing. It needs care and nurturing to truly flourish. Sometimes a nasty old frost comes and kills it without warning but that doesn't diminish the beauty of its life.

This is exactly what I meant...I just didn't have the wherewithal to put it so eloquently.

GG, sometimes you exquisate me.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

GG, sometimes you exquisate me.

Yankster, I am so very sorry. I'll try never to do it again!

 

[midwestyankee]

Yankster, I am so very sorry. I'll try never to do it again!

I realize that it's against the odds, but here's hoping that you will forget this little promise.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

I realize that it's against the odds, but here's hoping that you will forget this little promise.

What promise?