Depression. Anxiety. Panic Attacks. etc

[Quoll]

Hi, just thought I'd write about some of the problems I've been getting and hopefully get some feedback.

I found my mother after she committed suicide fairly recently. I think that she had intended to be found peaceful in bed but she wasn't discovered until a day or two after she died. [unpleasantly graphic] Her two cats had been left unfed and had therefore started to feed on her. Mum's face was exposed above the bedclothes and so that's where they started. Not pretty. [/unpleasantly graphic]

I have had a number of panic attacks since then and have been unsuccessful in assuaging them at all. I have photos of Mum that I can look at and try to focus on and possessions of hers, happy memories etc but can't seem to banish the disturbing images in my head before the panic attack takes over.

The attack starts suddenly, often after I have been crying and feel weak anyway. I can feel my breathing growing too fast and too shallow but am unable to stop it escalating. This awareness and impotence makes me so frustrated. My whole body shakes and the distrubing images crowd my head. I have even started to invent images such as Mum decomposing underground and the way she must have looked after her post mortem (I am a nurse and saw one during my training).

No matter how stupid and destructive I know these images to be, I can't banish them and my breathing gets more and more out of control. On one occasion I even fainted. This is worrying for me because I'm epileptic and depriving my head of oxygen to the point where I faint is not a good idea. I am convinced that unless I find some form of coping strategy these attacks will continue to escalate until they start bringing on seizures. It's partly this fear that makes them worse

My neurologist is at a loss as to how to advise me re: panic attacks and grief. My therapist has no clue about epilepsy. I try so hard to slow down and calm myself and I fail every time. I never had a panic attack before my mother died so I'm really at a loss. I'm staying with a friend and have scared her to death on a number of occasions now, which also upsets me.

I have tried breathing into a paper bag (i'm carrying one around at the moment), trying to slow my breathing, trying to hold my breath and regain some control, trying to empty my head, trying to fill it with something positive. I'm running out of ideas now, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Velvet, from what I have read of you, you are indeeed a very capable and level headed person, maybe that's why these attacks are hitting you so hard. I can't really offer any way, beyond time, for your wounds to heal, keep doing what you are doing it seems like the right path to me.
You have some great friends who want to help you all they can, let them, you need them and they need to be there for you.

These are a few pages from "The Panic Attacks Prevention Program", hopefully you can find something here that you are not already doing.

Part 3 : The Core Beliefs that Fuel Anxiety and Panic Attacks:

Although people having panic attacks often feel as if they are the only ones in the World with the problem, the thoughts that accompany panic attacks are usually very similar. Here are the most common ones we encounter.
Panic Thought 1: I might die from a heart attack

Although it may not feel like it at the time, the heart is designed to react in the way it does during a panic attack. It can feel unnatural because this type of heart activity is usually reserved for vigorous acitivity, when you don't notice it as much. However, unless you have a heart condition, it is not usually a threat to the heart. If you are worried about this, see your medical practitioner.
Panic Thought 2: I might die from suffocation

It may not feel pleasant, but you are less likely to suffocate during a panic attack than at any other time because you naturally take in more air. The shortness of breath you may feel is due to your body increasing its demand for oxygen, or because of hyperventilation.
Panic Thought 3: I'm having a stroke

When you don't understand what is happening to you, it's perfectly natural to try and explain in it terms you understand. However, strokes have nothing to do with panic attacks, so you can relax about that! However, if you are worrried about it, see your medical practitioner.
Panic Thought 4: I'm scared of fainting

Fainting is not an option when being chased by a wild animal, in fact it could be fatal, so it is highly unlikely that panic will cause fainting. And what if you did faint? How bad would it be? The end of the world? Worse than death itself? Probably not. Fear of fainting often comes about due to the sense of dizziness which accompanies hyperventilation, sometimes part of panic. We'll look at what you can do about that in a minute.
Panic Thought 5: I'm having a nervous breakdown, or going 'crazy'

If you were really going insane would you be aware or worried about going insane? You already know that the anxiety, panic, or 'fight or flight' response is a natural mechanism, so this one doesn't even figure.
Panic Thought 6: Losing control

When having an anxiety attack, it can feel like you have lost control. In fact, all that has happened is that control has shifted from your conscious to your unconscious mind, so things are still being regulated, just differently.
Panic Thought 7: Feeling so weak that you cannot move or might fall down

The feeling of weakness is caused by the shaking we mentioned earlier. In fact, you are stronger when panicking than at any other time as your large muscles are being supplied with plenty of oxygen.
Panic Thought 8: Believing that you are going to be embarrassed or humiliated

How many times have you actually been humiliated or embarrassed by a panic attack? If you ever have been, was it really that bad? During an attack, it is very common and quite natural to worry that your body can't take what is happening. The fact is that panic is a short-term response.

The worst part of a panic attack only lasts a few minutes although unpleasant anxiety feelings can persist for longer. It is similar to a fire or emergency drill for the body. If you have panic attacks then at least you know that your anxiety or fight or flight response is in good working order.

Part 4 : Hyperventilation (overbreathing) and other panic attack symptoms:

We've covered several panic attack symptoms in the course so far. Now we're going to take a look at hyperventilating (or overbreathing), which causes, or makes many panic attacks worse. It can be counted amongst panic attack symptoms, or amongst causes, as one 'feeds' off the other.

About 60% of attacks are accompanied by hyperventilation and many panickers overbreathe even whilst relaxed.

The most important thing to understand about hyperventilation is that although it can feel as if you don't have enough oxygen, the opposite is true. It is a symptom of too much oxygen.

With hyperventilation, your body has too much oxygen. To use this oxygen (to extract it from your blood), your body needs a certain amount of Carbon Dioxide (CO2).

When you hyperventilate, you do not give your body long enough to retain CO2, and so your body cannot use the oxygen you have. This causes you to feel as if you are short of air, when actually you have too much. This is why the following techniques work to get rid of hyperventilation.
Some hyperventilation and panic attack symptoms are:
Light headiness
Giddiness
Dizziness
Shortness of breath
Heart palpitations
Numbness
Chest pains
Dry mouth
Clammy hands
Difficulty swallowing
Tremors
Sweating
Weakness
Fatigue
Getting Rid of Hyperventilation

Anybody who hyperventilates will find that symptoms of over-excitedness or panic will occur. So how can learn to breathe more evenly and naturally?
Hold your breath. Holding your breath for as long as you comfortably can will prevent the dissipation of carbon dioxide. If you hold your breath for a period of between 10 and 15 seconds and repeat this a few times that will be sufficient to calm hyperventilation quickly.
Breathe in and out of a paper bag. This will cause you to re-inhale the carbon dioxide that you exhaled. Naturally there are many times when this would be inappropriate and may appear a little strange. It really helps though.
Thirdly you can take vigorous exercise while breathing in and out through your nose. A brisk walk or jog whilst breathing through the nose will counter hyperventilation. Regular exercise will decrease general stress levels decreasing the chance of panic attacks.
If you find that your breathing pattern is irregular or uncomfortable a lot of the time, the best way to 'reset' it is by exercising. Start off gradually and check with your doctor if you are not used to exercise.

The 7:11 Breathing Pattern - the opposite of hyperventilation

Finally you can practice a special type of breathing, not into your chest but deep into your tummy or diaphragm which is below your chest. The important thing here is that the out breath must be longer that the in breath. This causes stimulation of the part of your nervous system responsible for relaxation. This is a basic law of biology and if you breathe in this way then your body will have no choice but to relax.

It may take a few minutes but the body will respond regardless of what your mind is thinking. Experience this now. Sit down and close your eyes for a little while. Just become aware of your breathing.and breathe in to the count of seven. and breathe out to the count of eleven. You can hold for a couple of seconds at the bottom of the out breath if that's comfortable for you.

It may be a little difficult at first, but doing this regularly causes your general anxiety level to come down. You may also find that you begin to breathe this way automatically if you feel anxious. Regular relaxation actually starts to inhibit the production of stress hormones in the body so it actually becomes harder and harder to panic. As you become more generally relaxed the 'baseline' of arousal from which you are starting lowers. It actually becomes harder to get stressed!

Hyperventilation responds very well to this technique. If you practice this daily, hyperventilating should cease to be a problem very quickly. It can also give you much more control over panic attacks.

You are hopefully coming to understand that panic attack symptoms are natural physiological reactions. Next, how a panic attack causes the brain to behave in a certain way...

Keep posting and talking it out, personally I don't think many people would be able to cope with what you are going through, I am sure you will make it through this.

Panic Attack Prevention.

 

[bobsgirl]

These are a few pages from "The Panic Attacks Prevention Program", hopefully you can find something here that you are not already doing.


Panic Attack Prevention.

Pq, this is wonderful information. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Quoll]

Pq, this is wonderful information. Thanks for posting it.

Thank you, I should have remembered this earlier.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Velvet, from what I have read of you, you are indeeed a very capable and level headed person, maybe that's why these attacks are hitting you so hard.

I think you're right Quoll, these attacks are completely outside the scope of my experience. I've never reacted so emotionally to anything before.

These are a few pages from "The Panic Attacks Prevention Program", hopefully you can find something here that you are not already doing.

Panic Thought 6: Losing control

When having an anxiety attack, it can feel like you have lost control. In fact, all that has happened is that control has shifted from your conscious to your unconscious mind, so things are still being regulated, just differently.

I find this thought a very comforting one. I have a firm belief that 99% of the time the body knows what it's doing at an instinctive level. Hopefully this information will help me not to panic too much when I panic

Keep posting and talking it out, personally I don't think many people would be able to cope with what you are going through, I am sure you will make it through this.

Thanks very much Quoll, I do see a faint light at the end of the tunnel and I refuse to wallow in this forever. At the moment though I'm stuck in a maze (not unlike your AV) until I stop seeing my mother around every corner, everywhere I look.

"Not everything is about me and my grief - just everything about me right now." Forgot who said that.

Panic Attack Prevention.

This is very interesting, particularly section five about the brain and the amygdala. This is something that my rational self can comprehend in defense of my fervent belief that I am not going totally crazy

 

[EroticSexKitten]

I get depressed alot to the point where i dont want to see/speak to anyone

 

[Fflow]

Sometimes I find that speaking to people is what makes me depressed!

 

[silverwhisper]

ESK: sorry to hear that. but you know the best way out of a funk is to get out, right?

fflow: heh...i find that other people just make me despair sometimes. :>

ed

 

[bobsgirl]

.....

 

[Fflow]

Panic & Prozac

My wife went through a bout of depression after having a miscarraige. (this was before we met, btw) She had little support from her husband, was working full time as a kindergarten school teacher, and had a young child at home. She went to her doctor looking for help and received Prozac. She had a profoundly negative reaction to it, and developed symptoms that verged on psychotic. (irrational fear of knives, for example) Her doctors were unwilling to accept that these symptoms were a result of the prozac (now it is widely known that this is a risk of the drug) and wanted to treat her with lithium, etc. She finally got off prozac but, ever since, has been prone to panic attacks. Mostly, they hit her just as she's falling asleep. they've lessoned somewhat in their frequency and intensity, but they still happen. She never had them before taking the drug.

I don't know if this offers any help to you, but I think it is important to know. I know it sounds strange, but there are a few non-medical things that might help:

1) Regular physical exercize, where your heart rate is elivated and you're breaking a sweat, but not feeling breathless.

2) A healthy, well-balanced diet with vitimine suppliments.

3) A daily practice of deep relaxation or meditation.

These three things, together, will improve your overall physical well-being, but also improve the chemical balances in your brain. They aren't a cure for depression or panic attacks, but they can make it easier for you to cope with them.

Peace.

srw

 

[bobsgirl]

That dark hole is opening up again. You just can't let your guard down for even a minute. The holidays are going to be a nightmare. It'd be nice to go to bed Thanksgiving night and not wake up until New Year's Day.

I fucking hate this.

 

[SweetErika]

That dark hole is opening up again. You just can't let your guard down for even a minute. The holidays are going to be a nightmare. It'd be nice to go to bed Thanksgiving night and not wake up until New Year's Day.

I fucking hate this.

*Wraps you up in a BIG hug*

I'll second that, Sister.

Wanna run away together?

Do you enjoy anything about the season? IIRC, you talked about baking last year; would focusing on any positives like that help?

 

[bobsgirl]

*Wraps you up in a BIG hug*

I'll second that, Sister.

Wanna run away together?

Do you enjoy anything about the season? IIRC, you talked about baking last year; would focusing on any positives like that help?

Quite honestly, tonight is probably not the night for me to say whether I enjoy anything about anything.

I'd love to run away. You could bring your new toy and I'll help you in your search for likely candidates.

 

[Quoll]

I get depressed a lot to the point where i dont want to see/speak to anyone

Hi ESK, me too, ( possible reason for the delay in answering ) it's something I have to constantly fight, somedays are better than others. This is where the internet is a bit of a double edged sword, it enables us to communicate without leaving our comfort zone, in some ways this is good, at least we are communicating, but, it can also lead to even more isolation and this is not so good. Try to find some way to get out and interact in a small way, it doesn't have to be a conversation, go to a coffee shop and order a drink and a snack, it's not a lot but it's something you can congratulate your self on. It's really important to fight the urge to withdraw, as much as it seems to be the only thing we want, it just leads to an ever deepening depression. Good luck.

 

[Quoll]

...

1) Regular physical exercize, where your heart rate is elivated and you're breaking a sweat, but not feeling breathless.

2) A healthy, well-balanced diet with vitimine suppliments.

3) A daily practice of deep relaxation or meditation.

These three things, together, will improve your overall physical well-being, but also improve the chemical balances in your brain. They aren't a cure for depression or panic attacks, but they can make it easier for you to cope with them.

Peace.

srw

I agree Ff, but I also hate some of these (suggestions) (Note, it's the suggestions, not the person posting them that I hate. )
You have put it in the right context, they can make it easier, and at times take it right out of your mind, that I don't hate.

I just wish that more people understood that getting out and doing stuff, or sunlight therapy or any of the many suggestion that are thrown our way are at best a temporary reprieve, so if we greet their suggestions with an air of scepticism it's not because we haven't done or aren't doing them, it's just that we know the reality, sometimes you have to stop running and take a breath, and often that's when the darkness creeps in.

 

[Quoll]

That dark hole is opening up again. You just can't let your guard down for even a minute. The holidays are going to be a nightmare. It'd be nice to go to bed Thanksgiving night and not wake up until New Year's Day.

I fucking hate this.

Hey BG.

















It's just the holidays, and yes they suck, but they will pass and then you'll look back on it and think to yourself "Well that wasn't so bad was it." and of course you'll answer yourself "Fuck off, it was horrific."
My point? Umm I don't really have one, except to say that no matter how good something is, no matter how much effort you put into something, someone will always be disappointed, or not in agreeance with what you do, so bearing that in mind, do your damndest to make sure that you at least are getting it the way you want, someone will still be pissed, but someone always is. Or as someone said to me, "Just do what you can and forget the rest." One of the best bits of advice I have ever listened to.

Oh and btw depressive moods seem to come in cycles, so we know they will pass and we can ride them out. I figure you to be a 14 - 20 day cycler, so hang in there, we'll get you through this.

 

[bobsgirl]

It's just the holidays, and yes they suck, but they will pass and then you'll look back on it and think to yourself "Well that wasn't so bad was it." and of course you'll answer yourself "Fuck off, it was horrific."
My point? Umm I don't really have one, except to say that no matter how good something is, no matter how much effort you put into something, someone will always be disappointed, or not in agreeance with what you do, so bearing that in mind, do your damndest to make sure that you at least are getting it the way you want, someone will still be pissed, but someone always is. Or as someone said to me, "Just do what you can and forget the rest." One of the best bits of advice I have ever listened to.

Oh and btw depressive moods seem to come in cycles, so we know they will pass and we can ride them out. I figure you to be a 14 - 20 day cycler, so hang in there, we'll get you through this.

In past years, I did most of the shopping, cooking, baking, cleaning, etc. I don't have the energy to do that anymore. But people (mostly my spouse) still expect the same things. I just wish somebody would listen when I try to tell them that I can't.

Just feeling sorry for myself, I guess. Thank you, pq.

 

[Beautiful_Wreck]

I hate this time of year too. All the cheer and happiness in the air seem to just be a stark reminder/contrast to everything else that hurts.

 

[Quoll]

In past years, I did most of the shopping, cooking, baking, cleaning, etc. I don't have the energy to do that anymore. But people (mostly my spouse) still expect the same things. I just wish somebody would listen when I try to tell them that I can't.

Just feeling sorry for myself, I guess. Thank you, pq.

Tell them once and then forget about it, you'll either survive wthout the shopping, cooking, cleaning etc or at some point someone will notice that things aren't being done, this is the time to politely remind them that you did tell them you can't. If you continue to try to do it they will let you. It's a guy thing, so just stop doing it. We don't do subtlety.

 

[Nightbird]

Ok so I've developed this thing and I hate change. Tomorrow my schedule is being changed pretty drastically and I am not taking it well. Like reacting with anger not well.

 

[Quoll]

Ok so I've developed this thing and I hate change. Tomorrow my schedule is being changed pretty drastically and I am not taking it well. Like reacting with anger not well.

Anger, or fear, or anger at fear, I know those feelings so well, if I'm honest with myself the anger has become something of an excuse, sometimes it gets me out of having to do stuff sometimes not.
I suspect you are quite capable of doing the job at hand, just don't want to, umm to be honest I try to use denial when I can't get out of it, I try not to think about it at all, it's not easy but it's better than stewing over it and getting angrier and angrier.

 

[Shotokan07]

I agree with quoll. For me its the insecurities of having the control of my life. Even if its chaotic and I need help, I get angry on myself for not having control of the life.

For example, yesterday... I dropped my sister to school in the morning and then I had nothing to do (no classes as well) and I ended up wandering around. When my dad called to see what I was doing, and since I wasn't doing anything - he told me to come home and do some errands for him. Immediately I got hostile. When I did get home, I just got moody and picked every little thing that was going wrong at the house then went to my room and went to sleep.

Even tho I had nothing to do, I was angry that I had nothing to do in my life at that moment, per say "no life". So even if my father was giving me "something to do in my life at that moment", it wasn't my decision hence I get angry.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Nightbird]

For five plus years I worked in a job where it wasn't safe for me to have a routine. Now I live for and in the routine. I get up roughly the sametime and I do the samethings.

When something happens like it did today it really screws me up. But instead of admitting to myself what was really going on I became very mood swingy and angry.

Your right Quoll I was trying to avoid the change in routine. After the anger went away the slight panic / fear set in. And I think the fear set in because once the routine is broken then I enter into things I've never done before and the whole day falls into "Unknown" territory.

 

[Nightbird]

Shotokan that did make sense.

Sometimes we are in certain points of our lives where we have to follow so many rules and do what everyone else says that we have very little control of our own lives.

It makes sense that not being in control would bother you. Or at least it did to me.

Even tho I had nothing to do, I was angry that I had nothing to do in my life at that moment, per say "no life". So even if my father was giving me "something to do in my life at that moment", it wasn't my decision hence I get angry.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Fflow]

I agree Ff, but I also hate some of these (suggestions) (Note, it's the suggestions, not the person posting them that I hate. )
You have put it in the right context, they can make it easier, and at times take it right out of your mind, that I don't hate.

I just wish that more people understood that getting out and doing stuff, or sunlight therapy or any of the many suggestion that are thrown our way are at best a temporary reprieve, so if we greet their suggestions with an air of scepticism it's not because we haven't done or aren't doing them, it's just that we know the reality, sometimes you have to stop running and take a breath, and often that's when the darkness creeps in.

I completely understand, and agree, with what you are saying. Depression is a medical condition and should not be self-treated. At the same time, many wish for a simple, effortless solution that requires no work, no change in behavior, or anything short of taking a pill. This wish is supported, at least in part, by the medical community.

Good medical professionals and therapists do try to take a holistic approach to treatment but I suspect that many who suffer from depression cannot or will not step up and accept that something more than a pill, or a support group, is necessary for healing.

Also, although it is clear that there is a significant biochemical component to depression, there is also a cognitive one. A change in the way we think IS possible. I've done it myself, and seen others do it as well. Although it may seem absurd when you're in the depths of despair, aphorisms, positive thinking, and even hypnosis can help to break the unconscious and habitual scripts that constantly run. A cynical dismissal of these tools as offering only a "temporary reprieve" is, in my mind, misguided.

Whatever set of tools you have at your disposal now can always be expanded. The tools you currently use have not brought you to the sense of well-being you imagine, or desire. Accepting that other tools might be more effective, even ones that may feel uncomfortable, is a reasonable assumption.

One does not want to be grasping at straws, nor should one abandon practices and treatments that are being successful, but one should not dismiss proven and practical aids to wellness simply because they do not offer a complete or permanent cure.

Peace.

srw

 

[Quoll]

A cynical dismissal of these tools as offering only a "temporary reprieve" is, in my mind, misguided.

Peace.

srw

Not cynical, not a dismissal, just a reality for some, sometimes a reprieve is just what's needed.