Disappointments

[Daddyslilpet]

Dream,

With all due respect, and ya know I love ya hun.... I am reading contridictions in your posts. You trust but don't trust, you question but don't.... I know you will say its not the same for me, just as you did Willow, but sweety, I feel disappointments just as much as you do. When work comes before me, I feel disappointed.......does he have control over his job? No.....do I know this intellectually? yes.

Dream, I am just as new as you are to the D/s lifestyle, and its a whole different kind of trust than anything I've ever experienced before. Do I feel questions from sub's are important? You bet I do! However, I also feel that the Dom needs to be trusted totally, if we say we have given our trust and submission to them. Meaning, why submit if you don't trust? I wouldn't submit even to my husband, if I didn't trust him.

I'm disappointed to see the way you responded to Willow. I understand you are frustrated, but she was only trying to offer suggestions. Sometimes we have to not worry about things we have no control over....its just the way it is. I really don't think Willow would ever be telling you not to feel the way you feel. None of us have a right to do that to each other here.

I can simpathize with you on how frustrating it is to have your questions seemingly ignored. But, if Artful is anything like my Master, he hears you, he is just exercising his option to think about things before he gives a response. Oh man, Master is very frustrating in that respect....the man will think for hours on end and maybe say two words to me all evening. Try feeling lonely in the same house as your Master.....its not much different than a LDR then.

Sorry I've rambled. I just wanted you to see that even those of us who aren't in LDR's have some of the same things happen. I mean this post in no way to attack either you or Artful or anyone else. These are just my thoughts, my feelings. I respect yours, please respect mine.

~smiles~
dixi

 

[artful]

Dream-Willow-Belle

Thank you all for for your questions, answers, and participating in DISAPPOINTMENTS, how do you handle them. It truly is, a gut wrenching event.

From time to time, even well established Power Exchange relationships, have difficulties in this area, (I know,...I have been there and done that).

When two people, BOTH have experience in forming this type of BDSM relationship, they have a distinct advantage of being able to successfully negotiate their needs and expectations.

Still,...it is not EASY for them. It requires a lot of work and dedication to a common cause, (meeting the NEEDS of both).

If BOTH, can enter communication, having the strength to look inside themselves, with TOTAL honesty, and present THAT to their chosen partner, it STILL is not a cakewalk.

There are five relationships, that easily jump to the front of my mind, when I think of it having been successfully done. In no particular order, they are:

1)-Dixie and Hers.

2)-Robuck and and WillowPuss.

3)-Shadowsdream and hers.

4)-MsWorthy and hers.

5)-MasterMe and RisiaSkye

Because of the differences of each couple, they ALL will have different issues, but I would wager, they STILL have disappointments EACH,...have difficulty in overcoming.

Then,...we have another example, most of us are familiar with,...Tex and cymbidia. Both are very experienced in THIS type of BDSM relationships.

Still,...it is SCARY in putting one foot in front of the other, making those little steps of trust that are NECESSARY, to bonding in a meaningful manner.

(Hey folks,...it's NOT just scary for the sub,... it's scary for the Dom also). At least it is for ME.

Why ? Because developing THIS type of relationship, is the most important thing in my *LIFE*. Make no mistake, thinking it is EASY for the Dom/me,...it is NOT. It is THEIR responsibility in *controlling* the developement.

Then we have an example of ONE experienced, and ONE having no experience in this type of BDSM relationship, (skin to skin), add to this-LDR-, and Dream and I, are a *PRIME* example.

There are, other valid relationships of THIS type, but I think the examples I have set forth are enough, (May God have mercy on two people who have NO experience in BDSM, and yet, set about to forming this TYPE of relationship by ONLINE-LDR).

I encourage ALL, to continue posting to the thread topic, give your examples, your POV's, your questions and answers, along with your opinions.
Thanks to ALL who have posted so far.

 

[Quint]

Dream, I'm really sympathizing with you. I've read this thread and it's raised all kinds of thoughts that I instinctively rebel against. I've been an individual for all 19 years of my life. I come into this lifestyle, so eager and excited. It feels right. It feels rewarding in a way nothing else does.

And then it seems I'm told I have to lose part of myself in order to achieve this perfect world of submission.

I brought this subject up to T yesterday because I'm genuinely troubled by it. I've never done this before. I can't imagine living with somebody whose word is my law, end of subject. I don't even see how trust safely enters that.

We are young. We are human. We err. We have much less chance of erring if both sides are allowed to share their sides of the issue and make a decision based on that sharing.

I just have so much faith in myself and my rationality that to take that away from me and replace it with TRUST seems blasphemous by my standards of living! I don't blindly step into anything. My mind is my most precious commodity, and as such I expect it to be T's as well.

So you see where my dilemma comes in. He and I will be exploring constantly, testing our mutual trust, seeing if there ever will come a time when trust and reason are not mutually exclusive. Until then, I do what he tells me to--but as I do it, I ask why.

Best of luck to you, sweetie. Make your own decisions.

 

[SexyChele]

Just a disclaimer here, folks: this is for purposes of discussion and not meant to judge anyone. K? K.

I've personally never wanted to get involved in an LDR, especially a BDSM relationship, for exactly the reasons brought up by Dream. And, no, I'm not saying that Dream is "wrong" or making a "mistake". She is a complete human being and has willing made a decision that she feels best for her.

But, with all due respect to Willow and Dix, she is in a very different situation than either of you find yourselves in. Why? You both knew your Masters well before they became your Masters. Both of you married men who eventually became your Masters. So, even though a certain level of increased trust and submission had/has to be learned, there was an intial trusting to begin with. One usually doesn't marry some one they have not developed some sort of trust to begin with.

In Dream's situation, that trust has had to build online and over the phone. Artful and Dream have only had one long weekend together to try to forge that bond in person. And that is difficult. Not insurmountable, certainly. It has been done before. The problem with online communication is that when you get into a habit of "meeting" some one online at a certain time each and every day/evening, and suddenly that person is not there one day/night, you wonder. Especially if there has not been any communication stating that person wouldn't be there. Are they sick? Are they hurt? Did something happen? Is there some one else? Do they simply not want to be "bothered"? All sorts of doubts begin to creep into your mind.

If you are living/married to you Master and he seems emotionally removed, yes, that can be frustrating. But at least you can see him. You know he's just sitting in the other room. Think about your husbands/Masters taking off after work, not calling, and being gone for several hours and/or days. What then? Just relax in the thought that all is well and he'll show up eventually? I doubt it.

Actually, I can understand much of what Dream is talking about. I've met Doms who look at any question as being a "ding" against their authority and better judgement. Some subs can accept this and move on. I'm one of those who cannot. I question everything. I don't cause arguments, I simply question. Now, once a complete trust is established, I do question less and less, until I simply get to the point where I fully accept what he says/does. But that takes time. Well, at least for me, but then, I'm rather cautious.

I've heard from several people that one should "just submit". Well, okay, on a computer screen that looks really good. Real life throws some wrenches into that concept. My first Dom was not immediately identified as such. We worked our way into the relationship, and had already established trust and understanding before investigating our kinks. Now, however, that I've met a Dom "from scratch", so to speak, things are definitely different. Do I trust him? Yes, I do. Completely? Without question? No, I'm not there yet. And I talk to him every day, have seen him every week, and we have played a couple of times already.

Trust, for me, is given in increments. As it is earned, it is given. I do not meet a Dom, have an hour or two (or week) of conversation and say, "Yes, I trust you totally with all I have and will submit totally to you." My submission may be given, but it is given on the basis of trust. And since my trust is given in increments, guess what? My submission is given the same way. If a Dom can gain my trust quickly, than I am more able and willing to get to a point of full and complete submission.

But, again, what I am doing is skin to skin. This is much, much more difficult to do online. Doubts and disappoints can seem much more intense. Being able to look into some one's eyes, or hear their voice, or see their body language goes far to diminish doubt. Also, being in a position where a Dom can hold his sub when he knows she needs it, being able to simple touch him - does much to push away fears.

I think most of us can agree that cym is an example to look towards. And I think having her share her experience here with all of us is truly valuable. She has shared how much she thinks of her Master, how far their relationship has come. Yet, when she met him this past weekend, as she shared, she reacted rather than trusted. No, that is not a "slam". But I think it is a good testimony in that some one who is very knowledgable has shared that even she hasn't fully turned over trust - yet. And remember, that is skin to skin, not online/phone.

Subs should be heard. They should be allowed to question - especially initially when all is new and the complete trust is not yet there. There should be patience and understanding, knowing that both parties are building towards something beautiful and amazing. Doubts, disappointments, hurt feelings left to fester like an open sore will undermine and ruin a relationship, in my opinion.

Dream, keep strong. Keep communicating and striving to learn. How will the story end? Who knows - but it sounds as though you are on a wonderful journey.

 

[Quint]

Chele, 100%. Thank you.

 

[~Dream~]

Dixie..

Dream,

With all due respect, and ya know I love ya hun.... I am reading contridictions in your posts. You trust but don't trust, you question but don't.... I know you will say its not the same for me, just as you did Willow, but sweety, I feel disappointments just as much as you do. When work comes before me, I feel disappointed.......does he have control over his job? No.....do I know this intellectually? yes.

Dream, I am just as new as you are to the D/s lifestyle, and its a whole different kind of trust than anything I've ever experienced before. Do I feel questions from sub's are important? You bet I do! However, I also feel that the Dom needs to be trusted totally, if we say we have given our trust and submission to them. Meaning, why submit if you don't trust? I wouldn't submit even to my husband, if I didn't trust him.

I'm disappointed to see the way you responded to Willow. I understand you are frustrated, but she was only trying to offer suggestions. Sometimes we have to not worry about things we have no control over....its just the way it is. I really don't think Willow would ever be telling you not to feel the way you feel. None of us have a right to do that to each other here.

I can simpathize with you on how frustrating it is to have your questions seemingly ignored. But, if Artful is anything like my Master, he hears you, he is just exercising his option to think about things before he gives a response. Oh man, Master is very frustrating in that respect....the man will think for hours on end and maybe say two words to me all evening. Try feeling lonely in the same house as your Master.....its not much different than a LDR then.

Sorry I've rambled. I just wanted you to see that even those of us who aren't in LDR's have some of the same things happen. I mean this post in no way to attack either you or Artful or anyone else. These are just my thoughts, my feelings. I respect yours, please respect mine.

~smiles~
dixi

i do respect and have ALWAYS respected your opinions Dixie`as I also do willow's i apologize if i sounded mean-spirited in any way at all but when she told me to just "stand" on my feelings? nope no way!! no can do .. my feelings must and WILL be heard one way or another.. I have suffered at the abusive hands of men before bpth physically,mentally,emotionally and verbally ..I WILL not allow myself to judge Artful by those sub-standards ..He is sooo much better than all of them put together..He Deserves me as I DESERVE Him and the sooner I convince myself that I DO really "deserve Him the better off i will be! but feelings are NEVER to be "put away or ignored so I amsorry if i took that wrong willow however my viewpoint STILL stands...i will comment on Chele's most EXCELLENT (BEt you never thought I'd say that )post in a bit but i 100% agree with Her ..trust is EARNED with time.. I do trust just NOT totally altho it IS my goal,My REAL desire too and yes this STILL does mean I have submitted ,submission IS different for each of us and i'd like to personally commend CYM for having the bravery,the courage to show she is "downright Human" lol (huggs) to Cym.. ty Dixie also..

 

[SexyChele]

Chele, 100%. Thank you.

No, thank you, Quint!

But I also would like to address something you've brought up as well. Part of what you said was this:

"And then it seems I'm told I have to lose part of myself in order to achieve this perfect world of submission.

I brought this subject up to T yesterday because I'm genuinely troubled by it. I've never done this before. I can't imagine living with somebody whose word is my law, end of subject. I don't even see how trust safely enters that.

We are young. We are human. We err. We have much less chance of erring if both sides are allowed to share their sides of the issue and make a decision based on that sharing.

I just have so much faith in myself and my rationality that to take that away from me and replace it with TRUST seems blasphemous by my standards of living! I don't blindly step into anything. My mind is my most precious commodity, and as such I expect it to be T's as well."


This is a very common thought, and on the surface I would agree with you. However, I have had one experience that was profoundly rewarding and wonderful. I didn't feel that I had "given up" anything to submit to my first Dom. But then, we had dated and had a relationship before engaging in anything like BDSM. In that, we had already been through circumstances where he had proved to me that he was concerned about my well-being, and he had shown me in a thousand little ways that I came first in his life. We had endless discussions on how we both felt about various things in life.

My submission to this Dom did not truly happen "overnight". We eased into our kinks, and I trusted him. By the time we were fully engaged in this type of life, it seemed natural and simple to defer to him. He knew me - inside and out. He knew the way my body would respond to his touch. He knew if we were watching TV how I would respond to a certain news item. He knew how often I took my car in for maintainence. (Which wasn't often then, and was something he had to "remind" me to do!) I didn't have to be concerned that I was "giving up" anything. He already knew and understood it and cherished it.

But, it was a two way street. I came to accept the fact that if we went "4 wheeling" and became lost, he would know how to get us out of the situation - all I needed to do was follow his lead. I knew how his body responded to me, I knew which foods made him feel good and which foods he hated. I came to understand his moods and act accordingly around him. If he had a really hard day at work, I learned to tell by the expression on his face and carriage of his body - and I wouldn't nag or keep asking him to share. I knew he would when he was ready to.

When you get to a point where you so understand another person that you can almost read their mind and know what they will do (well, except for the bedroom, possibly! ), you "give up" nothing. You have already given it to them. That is when you know you trust them, completely. Your Dom won't need to ask you what you think because he has already come to know it - and probably better than what is in his own mind!

Just keep on the journey, Quint. When you reach the end, it is a beautiful experience!

 

[~Dream~]

Quint...

Dream, I'm really sympathizing with you. I've read this thread and it's raised all kinds of thoughts that I instinctively rebel against. I've been an individual for all 19 years of my life. I come into this lifestyle, so eager and excited. It feels right. It feels rewarding in a way nothing else does.

And then it seems I'm told I have to lose part of myself in order to achieve this perfect world of submission.

**** We have much less chance of erring if both sides are allowed to share their sides of the issue and make a decision based on that sharing.

I just have so much faith in myself and my rationality that to take that away from me and replace it with TRUST seems blasphemous by my standards of living! I don't blindly step into anything. My mind is my most (precious ))commodity, and as such I expect it to be T's as well.(mine too!!)

So you see where my dilemma comes in. He and I will be exploring constantly, testing our mutual trust, seeing if there ever will come a time when trust and reason are not mutually exclusive. Until then, I do what he tells me to--but as I do it, I ask why.

and i STILL do not understand why that is wrong even tho Master and I HAVE discussed this topic alot of different times..oh my decisions will be mutually agreed upon but Most will be made by Master..

Best of luck to you, sweetie. Make your own decisions.

 

[artful]

Chele

Thank you for two valuable posts. Quint,...thanks for sharing,...your HONESTY is a delight to see.
Dixi,...we kind of cross posted, but thanks for your contribution.

I am somewhat AWED, by the EXPRESSIONS of honesty in all the posts that have responded so far. Thank you ALL very much,...and PLEASE,...keep coming back with your insights.

 

[cymbidia]

I think most of us can agree that cym is an example to look towards. And I think having her share her experience here with all of us is truly valuable. She has shared how much she thinks of her Master, how far their relationship has come. Yet, when she met him this past weekend, as she shared, she reacted rather than trusted. No, that is not a "slam". But I think it is a good testimony in that some one who is very knowledgable has shared that even she hasn't fully turned over trust - yet. And remember, that is skin to skin, not online/phone.

I'm astounded and warmed by your words, chele, and they make me afraid, too. As you so succintly pointed out, i've done a lot with D/s BDSM relationships over the years but at the beginning of another one, a new one, experience doesn't mean much beyond the facts of knowing what kinda play i like, where my tolerances are, and having learned the value of being open and verbal (even if i can't always quite manage it).

We are new to our new partner.
We need to understand them, find the places that fit and the places that don't fit--and work on matching ourselves to their needs if we want the relationship to go.

We are submissives.
We aren't doormats but there's going to be some giving, swaying, acceding, being malleable that's part and parcel of being sub to a our dom partner.

We have to be heard but we have to sway and listen and be still, too.

We have to learn to trust.
We have to learn we're safe.
We have to learn not to fear.
We have to learn to care and to be open.
And we have to do that while we're learning about our dominant as a dominant and as a person.

It's a lot to do.

It's definitely tempting to not do and believe and say and act in the way we've been requested, if only cuz we're not used to doing that yet.

But we have to anyway.
We have to walk past the fears and do it, whatever "it" is, for real, from the depths of our souls and from the bottom of our desire to be to our dominant who s/he needs and wants.

I was wrong to stride, angry and confused, to the ticket counter to get a flight out the next morning. I was scared. My heart and brain were crying, shouting, "He doesn't really want to spend time with you! He likes to work more then he likes to spend time with you! He could have the time off but he wants to work, instead!" (Remember, i'm just out of a 21 year marriage to a total complete absolute stereotypic workaholic.)

He saw my confusion and anger. He moved to counter it, not even bothering to talk to me about it then and there, knowing, i think, that i wasn't exactly rational on the subject at that time. And so he didn't allow me to go.

It was damned highhanded of him, quite frankly. But it was also his right and his responsibility to me and to us not to allow me that kinda mindset or that decision.

And for a moment i wanted to scream in protest--but just for moment. Then i remembered: i trust him. I desire his presence in my life in just the way it has begun between us, and he desires my presence in his life, too, as his sub. He cares for me. I'm not just a convienence.

Being sub isn't easy sometimes. New relationships suck. New ways of thinking are often hard to accept. New priorities, especially if they're imposed form the outside, are difficult to adhere to.

But we have to keep the long range goal in mind, too, and not get lost in the small annoying hurtful daily mundanities.

We are submissives.
We are incomplete without our dominant partners.
No relationship is perfect all the time.
(No. Not even the relationships between Willow/Robuck or R/MM or SS/her pet or any of the other long-lasting ones.)

In the end, we have to learn to submit---gracefully and for real.
We have to learn to give up our self to our dominant in a way we've not done before.
We have to allow our dominant to truly be dominant.

I believe that every single person involved in BDSM even peripherally is a bona fide control freak. As submissives, we have to learn to give up some of our control--the part that's due to our dominants. We have to learn to give parts of it to our dominant, to trust his control, and to channel our need for control in other directions.

Being sub isn't an easy road and being sub in a new relationship is difficult indeed. We're filled with self-doubt and recriminations. We're filled even more with fears and anxieties around our new partner.

However, it's a one step at a time thing.

When we're scared, we need to go back to a place we know is true, i.e., i know my patner wants the best for me. We stick there, repeating it over and over to ourselves while we venture into new territory, trusting a little more, giving over control a bit more honestly.

I believe. I trust. I care. I want this to work. And so does he.
I'm on the same road in a similar place as are many of y'all, and that's my mantra. We gotta have one, right?

 

[~Dream~]

Sexy Chele...

Just a disclaimer here, folks: this is for purposes of discussion and not meant to judge anyone. K? K.

I've personally never wanted to get involved in an LDR, especially a BDSM relationship, for exactly the reasons brought up by Dream. And, no, I'm not saying that Dream is "wrong" or making a "mistake". She is a complete human being and has willing made a decision that she feels best for her.
___________________________________________

**thank -you for saying that 1st of all,yes I have made a decision that I choose to live my life this way..and I DO feel it is BEST for me..
_______________________

But, with all due respect to Willow and Dix, she is in a very different situation than either of you find yourselves in. Why? You both knew your Masters well before they became your Masters. Both of you married men who eventually became your Masters. So, even though a certain level of increased trust and submission had/has to be learned, there was an intial trusting to begin with. One usually doesn't marry some one they have not developed some sort of trust to begin with.

In Dream's situation, that trust has had to build online and over the phone. Artful and Dream have only had one long weekend together to try to forge that bond in person. And that is difficult. Not insurmountable, certainly. It has been done before. The problem with online communication is that when you get into a habit of "meeting" some one online at a certain time each and every day/evening, and suddenly that person is not there one day/night, you wonder. Especially if there has not been any communication stating that person wouldn't be there. Are they sick? Are they hurt? Did something happen? Is there some one else? Do they simply not want to be "bothered"? All sorts of doubts begin to creep into your mind.
_________________
***once again..right dead on..doubts uncertainties,very REAL concerns and fears....is not a sub "supposed " to care of her Master's whereabouts? should He not give her the permission to ask where He was/ what is He hiding if He doesnt care to just answer,it's simple really and I dont feel it "takes away from" the "Control..JMHO..
___________________

If you are living/married to you Master and he seems emotionally removed, yes, that can be frustrating. But at least you can see him. You know he's just sitting in the other room. Think about your husbands/Masters taking off after work, not calling, and being gone for several hours and/or days. What then? Just relax in the thought that all is well and he'll show up eventually? I doubt it.

Actually, I can understand much of what Dream is talking about. I've met Doms who look at any question as being a "ding" against their authority and better judgement. Some subs can accept this and move on. I'm one of those who cannot. I question everything. I don't cause arguments, I simply question..>....(**.this part I like the MOST Chele )Now, once a complete trust is established, I do question less and less, until I simply get to the point where I fully accept what he says/does. But that takes time. Well, at least for me, but then, I'm rather cautious. ..***.asking questions does NOT mean a sub is "automatically looking to argue" with Her Master!
__________________


I've heard from several people that one should "just submit". Well, okay, on a computer screen that looks really good. Real life throws some wrenches into that concept. . Do I trust him? Yes, I do. Completely? Without question? No, I'm not there yet. And I talk to him every day, have seen him every week, and we have played a couple of times already.

Trust, for me, is given in increments. As it is earned, it is given. I do not meet a Dom, have an hour or two (or week) of conversation and say, "Yes, I trust you totally with all I have and will submit totally to you." My submission may be given, but it is given on the basis of trust. And since my trust is given in increments, guess what? My submission is given the same way. If a Dom can gain my trust quickly, than I am more able and willing to get to a point of full and complete submission..***.(...Awesome...simply awesome!! could not have said it better or any more truthfully than that and since I feel you no longer have me on 'ignore" CHELE ...i hope you will accept this from me as a token of my genuine appreciation for a post I could not have written any better myself!!>>rosesx12)**
___________________________________________

But, again, what I am doing is skin to skin. This is much, much more difficult to do online. Doubts and disappoints can seem much more intense. Being able to look into some one's eyes, or hear their voice, or see their body language goes far to diminish doubt. Also, being in a position where a Dom can hold his sub when he knows she needs it, being able to simple touch him - does much to push away fears.
______________________***_Yes missing the "touch ,the look,the voice says it all to me..God how I miss the things that everyone else takes so for granted..***



Subs should be heard. They should be allowed to question - especially initially when all is new and the complete trust is not yet there. There should be patience and understanding, knowing that both parties are building towards something beautiful and amazing. Doubts, disappointments, hurt feelings left to fester like an open sore will undermine and ruin a relationship, in my opinion.
__________________
my point exactly.....Chele..



Dream, keep strong. Keep communicating and striving to learn. How will the story end? Who knows - but it sounds as though you are on a wonderful journey.

***I know I am and with all you wonderful people to listen and "empathize with me I am sure that both Artful and I will make it for OUR love for each other is very very STRONG ..ty to all of you..ty again Chele... x12

 

[spankableBelle]

Re: that was a very good example Belle..

thank you, dream ~smile~

 

[spankableBelle]

Alright, here's disappointment

Referencing my post earlier about not enough time online with Soron...

He came online around 1:15pm this afternoon...i was sitting here, reading posts, reading my assigned reading, emailing...point is, i was here...msn was on...i was logged into yahoo...BUT...neither msn or yahoo alerted me to His presense...not only did that not occur when it happened, but i didn't get His email stating that He was home until just now, 45 minutes AFTER the time it was sent...(sigh)

It's a conspiracy, i tell ya...

belle (throwing a disappointed temper tantrum, quite unbecoming a sub...)

 

[artful]

Confession on Disappointment

I am somewhat disappointed in my skill of understanding the FEAR, DOUBT, and WORRY that Dream engages in. Well,...that's not ENTIRELY true,...I am VERY disappointed at not being able to *control* her fears, doubts, and worries.

Our text messaging, (which I have relied on PRIMARILY for initiating the relationship in the first place), leaves a LOT to be desired, as we have become closer and closer.

I find myself at a loss to hear that whimper, to see that lower lip bitten in fear or confusion. Unable to spot the beginning formation of the first tears to pour forth, in anger or hurt.

As our emotions become entangled, our fingers race speedily to the keyboard, and type hurried responses because, we don't want the other to MISUNDERSTAND further.

Indeed, what happens in reality, is it only breeds more confusion and misunderstanding. Words, phrases, and sentences are misinterpreted, or taken out of context, and ONE more problem is piled on top.

Now we are at the point where we EACH require MORE from the other. WE expect to be understood BETTER than before, and short messages of TEXT, just is not good enough to convey OUR feelings.

Though I am, (at least in MY eyes), very logical and think things through in a patient way, examining each word, phrase, and sentence for CONTENT.

Dream is emotionally charged to respond, and/or enter into a completely different subject, before I have thoroughly understood the FIRST problem, let alone, dealt with it satisfactorily.

I am focused on a SINGLE problem,...and she, (because of her multi-tasking abilities), is light years away from where I am at.

Because we have met, (skin to skin), I know we are each committed to wholeheartedly making this relationship become better and better. We are well matched,...we DO complete each other,...in that, I have no doubt.

Adjustments to our METHOD of communications will be made and things will smoothe out considerably.

Her and I both share the responsibility of honest open communication, but it is MY duty, to find out the BEST way for us to achieve it.

(Thanks for listening all)

P.S.-Belle,...Dream and I both, have experienced the failures of technology also. Last night it was for two hours, and THAT, is what started the misunderstanding in the first place.

 

[SexyChele]

Artful, it takes a big man to come "clean" on a public board such as you did. I have discovered a new found respect for you for doing this. Too often, it is easy for Doms to sit back and then deal with this only privately, maintaining their public "image".

Dream is truly lucky not only to have found some one who cares for and loves her deeply, but is willing to ask and listen to what others have to say and adjust accordingly, if necessary.

Kudos to you!

And, I also wanted to address something you stated earlier regarding how hard it is to be a Dom. Things here were pretty heavy on the side of subs - possibly because you specifically asked for the opinion of subs. If there was anything that I said or implied that made it sound as though Doms just sit back and do nothing, I apologize. Yes, being a sub is not easy, as cym so beautifully put it. But I still consider being a Dominant even more difficult.

I just hope I didn't demean the hardships and dilemas that Dominants go through while trying to manage and build relationships.

 

[~Dream~]

ty Chele..

Artful, it takes a big man to come "clean" on a public board such as you did. I have discovered a new found respect for you for doing this. Too often, it is easy for Doms to sit back and then deal with this only privately, maintaining their public "image".

Dream is truly lucky not only to have found some one who cares for and loves her deeply, but is willing to ask and listen to what others have to say and adjust accordingly, if necessary.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes indeed I am a Very lucky woman it's true,in more ways than one ..my Master listens to others viewpoints on things instead of being shallow-minded ,He is always fair & honest and even when He does make mistakes (which isnt often at all0 He freely admits to them and Does His best to 'right the wrong"..sometimes I can be a bit "spoiled' in my behaviour but He has only Himself to blame for that as He is always finding new& exciting ways to please me and show His love..Sept 11th was but one of those ways that will remain near& dear to my heart forever and I love Him all the more for it..My Master said something to me that warmed my heart as no other man ever has,He is really becoming known for that,,He sometimes tries to convince me that He is soo "unemotional but His actions speak volumes to me..
___________________________________________
And, I also wanted to address something you stated earlier regarding how hard it is to be a Dom. Things here were pretty heavy on the side of subs - possibly because you specifically asked for the opinion of subs. If there was anything that I said or implied that made it sound as though Doms just sit back and do nothing, I apologize. Yes, being a sub is not easy, as cym so beautifully put it. But I still consider being a Dominant even more difficult
___________________________________
.
_** He has a most awesome responsibility,taking care of not only His slave but "US" our relationship,I am not all that easy of a person to train let me tell you,i can be quite stubborn but my heart is sincere with love for only Him..He has to have the patience of a saint to deal with me..

 

[artful]

Chele

Artful, it takes a big man to come "clean" on a public board such as you did. I have discovered a new found respect for you for doing this. Too often, it is easy for Doms to sit back and then deal with this only privately, maintaining their public "image".

I just hope I didn't demean the hardships and dilemas that Dominants go through while trying to manage and build relationships.

As happens in PM's to anyone,...text messages have a unique way of being misunderstood in some of our POSTS at Lit also.

Though subs are seen more frequently to post problems they encounter, I think it is more a numbers ratio than anything.

I can't help but to praise Richard49, for his recent open disclosures, of what he is now going through.

The main reason I am being so *OPEN* in discussing the the joys, and the problems that Dream and I share, is simply in hope that others can be aided with the information in THEIR-LDR.

I have always envied the direct way you articulate and express your views in text messages. The intelligence that drives your posts is also acknowledged,...always has been.

I have known you, and read your posts and stories, since the first day I came to Lit. I still am awed by your skill in writing, so don't change a thing. Thanks for the post!

 

[zipman]

Great Thread Artful

I am not at all comfortable commenting on the relationship that you and dream have. It is outside of my experience and I feel that Rose, Quint, SexyChele, Dixie, Spankablebelle and Willow have all posted wonderful, thoughtful responses to you.

I also would like to acknowledge the level of your disclosures Artful, they are inspiring to a degree which I doubt you realize.

I think that Doms feel dissapointments just as keenly as submissives do, if not more in some respects. Every dissappointment I have ever felt in a subs behavior always turns into a dissappointment in myself.

It starts with being dissappointed in her...

Why would she do that when she knows how I feel about it.
And then it turns into being dissapointed in myself...

She wouldn't have done that if I had been a better Master.

what did I do wrong? Why is she doubting me? How often do I have to prove I know what is best for her in this situation? I had a sub about a year ago that always wound up questioning me. I asked her once if I had ever been wrong in a decision that I had made for her. She relied no, that she didn't remember it ever happening. I then asked her why she would doubt me, if I hadn't been wrong before. Her reply was, because you might be wrong next time. Here is where I think Willow articulated it best. It's a bout trust. Either you do or you don't.

There is a tremendous amount of responsibility involved in being a Dom. Making decisions based on what your sub needs, even if she doesn't realize that she needs it. Not NEEDING to explain yourself is part of what this is all about. That is where the trust comes into play.

 

[Richard49]

Re: Re: Disappointments

Ummm Art ... not sure if you want my view on this or not, so will keep quiet for now.

I do

 

[A Desert Rose]

Col. Mustard in the Library....

Disappointment is when you think you have it all figured out and find out you don't even have the first CLUE.

 

[artful]

Re: Great Thread Artful

I am not at all comfortable commenting on the relationship that you and dream have. It is outside of my experience and I feel that Rose, Quint, SexyChele, Dixie, Spankablebelle and Willow have all posted wonderful, thoughtful responses to you.

I also would like to acknowledge the level of your disclosures Artful, they are inspiring to a degree which I doubt you realize.

I think that Doms feel dissapointments just as keenly as submissives do, if not more in some respects. Every dissappointment I have ever felt in a subs behavior always turns into a dissappointment in myself.

It starts with being dissappointed in her...

Why would she do that when she knows how I feel about it.
And then it turns into being dissapointed in myself...

She wouldn't have done that if I had been a better Master.

what did I do wrong? Why is she doubting me? How often do I have to prove I know what is best for her in this situation? I had a sub about a year ago that always wound up questioning me. I asked her once if I had ever been wrong in a decision that I had made for her. She relied no, that she didn't remember it ever happening. I then asked her why she would doubt me, if I hadn't been wrong before. Her reply was, because you might be wrong next time. Here is where I think Willow articulated it best. It's a bout trust. Either you do or you don't.

There is a tremendous amount of responsibility involved in being a Dom. Making decisions based on what your sub needs, even if she doesn't realize that she needs it. Not NEEDING to explain yourself is part of what this is all about. That is where the trust comes into play.

What a great contribution to the thread Zip. I would encourage you also to come back again. Normally, I don't quote the whole post,...but your every word needs to be copied.

Colonel Mustard, is that cherries atop your toes?
Your feet STILL have that,..."Gee,...I am TOTALLY embarrassed look." Not to worry,....everybody thinks they are TOTALLY cute. (I know, Iknow,...you don't have a "CLUE" as to what I am talking about)-LMAO

Richard,...thanks for being here man, and thanks to all who have posted so far.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: Great Thread Artful

Colonel Mustard, is that cherries atop your toes?
Your feet STILL have that,..."Gee,...I am TOTALLY embarrassed look." Not to worry,....everybody thinks they are TOTALLY cute. (I know, Iknow,...you don't have a "CLUE" as to what I am talking about)-LMAO ]

I always have been clueless, hon.

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Great Thread Artful

What a great contribution to the thread Zip. I would encourage you also to come back again. Normally, I don't quote the whole post,...but your every word needs to be copied.

Colonel Mustard, is that cherries atop your toes?
Your feet STILL have that,..."Gee,...I am TOTALLY embarrassed look." Not to worry,....everybody thinks they are TOTALLY cute. (I know, Iknow,...you don't have a "CLUE" as to what I am talking about)-LMAO

Richard,...thanks for being here man, and thanks to all who have posted so far.

I was rereading this thread and I realized another major disappointment that I sometimes feel.

It is the disappointment of a sub not wanting the same things that I do. While I would always respect a person's hard and soft limits, and respect their desires, it can be very disappointing when you have a desire that they are not into.

I remember being with a woman once who did not like vaginal intercourse, and preferred only anal or oral sex. While I do enjoy both of those immensely, I felt cheated out of something I really liked. I guess I'm greedy, I wanted the trifecta! But I remember feeling very disappointed.

 

[artful]

Re: Re: Re: Great Thread Artful

It is the disappointment of a sub not wanting the same things that I do. While I would always respect a person's hard and soft limits, and respect their desires, it can be very disappointing when you have a desire that they are not into.

Zip,...I know exactly what you are referring to. It happens not JUST with the subs. Disappointments are felt on BOTH sides. Sometimes compromise works and things work out to benefit both parties,...and sometimes not.

When each of us are not fulfilled in the boundaries that have been established, is when HONEST communication has to be entered into. This can only be done if EACH of us have been honest in looking within FIRST.

Without our inner truths being exposed, (what we NEED), the relationship will fail. Sometimes,...it just doesn't work out.

That's when our emotions come into play, and often feelings are hurt needlessly by continueing to TRY and FORCE a fit.

Sometimes the two will stay together because of fear and loneliness, lack of knowledge, lack of courage, etc.,...but THEY will be miserable because of the mismatch.

Sometimes a parting of the ways is necessary, one severs the relationship, (hopefully having learned from their experience), and goes on to form their desired relationship with another.

Thanks again for your post Zip. Your posts always cause me to THINK,...to go deep within myself and dig for truths, as have all the posters done on this thread.

 

[~Dream~]

New thoughts,new ideas,,new beginnings

*After looking at my last posts on this thread I feel saddened like the person who made them is a stranger to me,altho it really Was me, myself that typed those messages!!..
I did ,indeed sound like a spoled little girl ,in alot of ways.
*I ,myself,respond Emotionally ,first to alot of disappointments.I used to sulk,pout,(which Master doesnt like at all,)or here at home scream ,shout at the puter, or just cry my eyes out in pain and anger.always always frustrated..
*I was very very emotionally depressed recently and I have come to know that the "root" of my depressionwas the very REAL struggle to surrender" I was facing..I have come to open my mind and allow other's views ,feelings,and opinions more direct access into it without always being in fear.
*I have come to realize that there is a reson for every disappointment that happens to us ,sometimes we may understand it and sometimes we will not .We have to search for the answer and try to understand and realize that sometimes things are out of our Master's control ,but that Most things are best left IN His control..
I think I had been trying to only give Artful bits& pieces of me at a time instead of the "whole package.I have learned and come to understand and appreciate that one has to give it All ' ,not just part of the Control cause then the struggle is still there if you do not,and no TPE can take place without Total submission"
*I am disappointed in myself,that I couldnt see this much sooner ,for now I feel that someone has taken off the "blinders" so to speak,and I can see the sunlight flooding in.!!! Master says that I had to look inside myself to find out the "truth", and all the while I was blaming Him!!
*I was ,and I am not happy about that at all,however my level of committment IS as great as anyone's and I feel my determination to learn is just as strong.
*I am still a bit frightened about Our relationship cause it IS all new to me,but mostly it's just a fear of being able to keep it,the fear is no longer from submitting at all..it feels good ,it feels RIGHT..this relationship is VERY dear to me as it is to Artful.I just dont wanna disappoint Him.
I feel that we have made it this far and alot of things have transpired between us in just 4 months' now but with patience.love,unerstanding and our mutual respect ,one for the other ,it will ALL work out in the end..thanks for everyone's views on this thread,...Dream

..I love you and Happy Anniversary Master