Dom in a fight: What a Sub gonna do?

[Recidiva]

yeah I agree Catalina. I would just find it hard to respect someone who was rolling around the floor, brawling lol.
I wouldn't think it was impressive or macho or tough, I'd think it was stupid.

.....and to be honest if he hit a girl, I would be disgusted.

This is interesting because I've never met a guy who had more respect for women than my husband. It's just that he's realistic about the idea that a woman can kick ass and hold her own.

I've also rarely met anyone more charming or able to defuse a difficult situation.

But if it came down to blows, he doesn't underestimate that a woman is helpless. I guess I take that as a compliment.

 

[Marquis]

I want to point out that, intellectually, I actually agree with most of the pacifists in this thread. Fighting is pretty stupid, and it's rare that I get to observe one from a third party perspective and don't think the people fighting look like jack-asses.

However, I do believe that our inclination or disinclination towards violence is often very situational. I grew up in some rough neighborhoods and went to some rough schools where violence was very common and taking the immaculately non-violent role wasn't really practical.

I'm not trying to paint myself as a raging badass like Recidiva's husband, because I'm definitely not.

Most of the well trained martial artists I know would never get into a street fight. I really respect that. In all fairness though, I think that there is a sizable group of people who are pacifist not out of a true belief in non-violence, but simply because they are pussies.

Yeah, I said it.

You wanna fight about it?

 

[minx1]

This is interesting because I've never met a guy who had more respect for women than my husband. It's just that he's realistic about the idea that a woman can kick ass and hold her own.

I've also rarely met anyone more charming or able to defuse a difficult situation.

But if it came down to blows, he doesn't underestimate that a woman is helpless. I guess I take that as a compliment.

I was in a relationship with a violent man a long time ago and so I guess my views are based mainly on that . I certainly couldn't hold my own. He was much bigger and much stronger than me.

Actualy he could be very charming, but privately he was also a bully and a prick.

 

[Recidiva]

I was in a relationship with a violent man a long time ago and so I guess my views are based mainly on that . I certainly couldn't hold my own. He was much bigger and much stronger than me.

Actualy he could be very charming, but privately he was also a bully and a prick.

Oh, yes, that I can see. I grew up with bullies and pricks (my brother and cousins). That's partly where I learned to fight and stand up for myself. I'm a lot more comfortable with violence as a result, to where I know what it's like to be unable to defend myself and why I know it's sometimes the only thing you can use against certain types of people, the only thing they respect or that can make them stop.

When I moved away from my family, I fell into a very pacifistic phase of my life, but when I became a mom, I discovered the "inner mama bear."

I know I'd be willing to kill for my kids if they were attacked. I know my husband would be willing to kill for us. It hasn't come up, but I know if it does, we're on the right side.

There is a difference between standing your ground in defense of something and picking a fight.

 

[graceanne]

This is interesting because I've never met a guy who had more respect for women than my husband. It's just that he's realistic about the idea that a woman can kick ass and hold her own.


I've also rarely met anyone more charming or able to defuse a difficult situation.

But if it came down to blows, he doesn't underestimate that a woman is helpless. I guess I take that as a compliment.

Ditto. K's very respectful, but he had an ex break his nose once. At the time his childhood raising kicked in and he didn't punch her back, but he decided at that point if she could hit good enough to break a nose, then he had a right to defend himself. Quite frankly, I agree with him. K's never hit me, cause I've never hit him, but if I were to full out punch his ass I would not be surprised if he punched me back.

Luckily I'm adult enough to avoid hitting people when I'm mad.

 

[Recidiva]

Ditto. K's very respectful, but he had an ex break his nose once. At the time his childhood raising kicked in and he didn't punch her back, but he decided at that point if she could hit good enough to break a nose, then he had a right to defend himself. Quite frankly, I agree with him. K's never hit me, cause I've never hit him, but if I were to full out punch his ass I would not be surprised if he punched me back.

Luckily I'm adult enough to avoid hitting people when I'm mad.

My brothers and sister used to beat the hell out of each other all the time. I was the youngest. I couldn't hit back mostly. 7 to 10 years younger makes you a bit helpless. My sister hit my brother once, and he hit her hard enough to knock her down. She complained, saying you're only supposed to hit back just as hard as you got hit. He said he hit her as hard as he could so she wouldn't try it again. It worked. I don't believe in "fair" violence. Sometimes being overpowering means you avoid a fight altogether, and that's usually how my husband functions. Intimidation.

Also, my sister always hit me harder than my brothers did.

I'd never consider hitting my husband, he wouldn't hit me unless I asked for it. Nicely.

I don't hit either. I have words. They're usually worse. I have control over that too, but it's all hard won.

 

[graceanne]

My brothers and sister used to beat the hell out of each other all the time. I was the youngest. I couldn't hit back mostly. 7 to 10 years younger makes you a bit helpless. My sister hit my brother once, and he hit her hard enough to knock her down. She complained, saying you're only supposed to hit back just as hard as you got hit. He said he hit her as hard as he could so she wouldn't try it again. It worked. I don't believe in "fair" violence. Sometimes being overpowering means you avoid a fight altogether, and that's usually how my husband functions. Intimidation.

Also, my sister always hit me harder than my brothers did.

I'd never consider hitting my husband, he wouldn't hit me unless I asked for it. Nicely.

I don't hit either. I have words. They're usually worse. I have control over that too, but it's all hard won.

My sister in law is the youngest, and from what I hear you don't want to get in a fight with her, she'll kick your ass. When she was married, she routinely left black eyes and stuff on her husband - and he's 6'3".

When she was in 7th grade one of the older 8th grade girls picked a fight with her. The chick came up with her hands like claws, and S planted her feet and hit her twice in the face. She went down, and the girls sister was like 'I'M GONNA KICK YOUR ASS', and SHE came at S with her hands in claws, too. S planted her feet and punched her twice - no one bothered tried to pick a fight with her after that.

 

[FurryFury]

Shhhh! You're not suppose to notice that--it gets worse in later books. The women "in charge" don't want to be or aren't *really* in charge You start to notice that the men do all the heavy lifting and decision-making even though the women are all suppose to be "queens" who are running the roost.

And really, if you're going to point out that things don't make sense what *are* we going to do with you

*smiles*

I can think of a quite a few things.

 

[Netzach]

I never got into hitting back or hitting people because I honestly was scared of what I would do - even lacking workout, skill, or practise. I scare myself enough if I let it go verbally.

 

[Recidiva]

I never got into hitting back or hitting people because I honestly was scared of what I would do - even lacking workout, skill, or practise. I scare myself enough if I let it go verbally.

For me it's all a matter of degrees. Insult me and I tend to think it's funny. Insult my kids or someone who doesn't think it's funny...my responses are different.

It's not as if fights are often. I'm just not scared of them any more. I'm scared for other people.

Fortunately being able to avoid them becomes second nature too. But the first nature does assert itself if necessary.

There were two women that lived down the block, and a psychotic man came straight through their plate glass window and started to assault them. They subdued the guy and called the cops.

In my case, I'm pretty sure, to steal a line from "The Dresden Files", I would have "self defensed him to death."

 

[DVS]

...In all fairness though, I think that there is a sizable group of people who are pacifist not out of a true belief in non-violence, but simply because they are pussies.

Yeah, I said it.

You wanna fight about it?

For me, I think it's a little of both. I never was much of a fighter. Never had the offer, if you want to look at it that way. I was picked on as a kid, and only by other kids that were bigger than me. That caused a feeling in my stomach that I didn't like. I didn't like how it made me feel, because I wasn't big enough to stop the kids from picking on me. I was a little kid for most of my high school years. Five foot tall and 98 lbs. of kid...wet, even. Then, I grew something like a foot it seemed like overnight. But, by then, I was an upper classman.

Oh, I wasn't the only one picked on. They said it was a right of passage. You know, the upper classmen picked on the underclassmen, because they were picked on when they were in my shoes. I never understood that and because of the way it made me feel inside to see other kids get picked on, I didn't do it, when I was an upper classman. Maybe I'm a sap. Maybe I'm overly emotional. Maybe I'm chicken. Maybe I"m just a nice guy.

Wait a minute. I'm not that nice. I do enjoy beating on women...a LOT! That's got to give me some kind of bad guy image. Right? And I like to tie them up, so they can't fight back. Gag them, so they can't even plead for mercy. And, strip them naked...and humiliate them in deviously nasty ways. What do you call a man who is such a cad that he will tie women up, beat their asses, torment their minds and probe them sexually, just for his own amusement?

 

[Betticus]

.....and to be honest if he hit a girl, I would be disgusted.

There are plenty of girls out there that need to be hit.

 

[BiBunny]

There are plenty of girls out there that need to be hit.

Hit me! *Drool*

 

[Betticus]

Doms are never wrong and never lose fights.[ QUOTE]

What if they are both Doms?

The first rule of fight club is don't talk about fight club!

 

[Betticus]

Hit me! *Drool*

With what? Jury duty?

 

[Netzach]

The first rule of fight club is don't talk about fight club!

Jack is so clearly Tyler's little bitch. Fight = fuck.

 

[Betticus]

Jack is so clearly Tyler's little bitch. Fight = fuck.

Oh man... Those damn books.

 

[FurryFury]

I never got into hitting back or hitting people because I honestly was scared of what I would do - even lacking workout, skill, or practise. I scare myself enough if I let it go verbally.

I can understand that. I never start a fight but after years of being attack by my caregivers, if I am cornered or assaulted, I will finish the fight.

OTOH, a girl wanted to fight with me waaaay back in 9th grade. What was it about? A guy. I said, I don't want him, you can have him but you might want to talk to your best friend because she is the one he is seeing on the side not me.

LMAO.

Usually there is a way to avoid a fight. That's my first preference.

 

[graceanne]

Wait a minute. I'm not that nice. I do enjoy beating on women...a LOT! That's got to give me some kind of bad guy image. Right? And I like to tie them up, so they can't fight back. Gag them, so they can't even plead for mercy. And, strip them naked...and humiliate them in deviously nasty ways. What do you call a man who is such a cad that he will tie women up, beat their asses, torment their minds and probe them sexually, just for his own amusement?

Sexy?

Now 'xcuse me. I need to . . . relieve myself. *fans self*

 

[maybenicegirl]

I don't like any of the choices in the poll - maybe I'm a different type of sub. I would imagine that if there was ever a reason my Dom would be in a fight that there would be a good reason - probably a life or death reason, cause I don't like guys who fight unless there is no alternative. If a fight is inevitable, then I would stand up and fight until my death for my man, no question. I'd do the same for myself, I think if there was a situation like that we'd both be fighting together.

 

[3113]

I don't like any of the choices in the poll - maybe I'm a different type of sub. I would imagine that if there was ever a reason my Dom would be in a fight that there would be a good reason - probably a life or death reason, cause I don't like guys who fight unless there is no alternative. If a fight is inevitable, then I would stand up and fight until my death for my man, no question. I'd do the same for myself, I think if there was a situation like that we'd both be fighting together.

Well, once again, even though we're discussing it and it's fascinating, the hypothetical scenario isn't about a physical fight. I'm seeing this as a verbal altercation and the fear is that the Dom is simply going to look bad, not that he's going to end up fighting for his life.

What I'm talking about I see right here (granted that it's easier to get into a flame war with someone who is only words on a page). Person #1 says something, and person #2 takes offense even if #1 didn't mean it that way. #1 doesn't say, "You misunderstood, sorry..." but rather decides they don't like #2's accusing tone, and respond in kind "How dare you...!" and suddenly a flame war erupts. This happens more frequently online, but it also happens between people face-to-face at parties, family gatherings, etc. All someone has to do is say something that another person *mistakes* as an insult to someone or something they care about: a person they admire, a cause that matters to them, an event that brings up bad memories, a religion they live their life by (hey, I've seen a guy verbally attacked for just wearing an teeshirt that said "Atheist")....suddenly and before even the two sides understand what's happened, they're arguing loudly, people are staring and the whole thing looks like it's getting way out of hand.

Why would this so *very* common situation, so very HUMAN situation, so very unintentional and honest situation be so very unlikely? So many of you are insisting that this could never happen. Really? Never? Not even at that family dinner where the Dom's sister brings over her new and very stupid boyfriend and the guy says something innocent...but really, really, really sensitive? Something that the Dom doesn't think any boyfriend should ever say to his girlfriend's sibling? Not even then?

 

[Recidiva]

Well, once again, even though we're discussing it and it's fascinating, the hypothetical scenario isn't about a physical fight. I'm seeing this as a verbal altercation and the fear is that the Dom is simply going to look bad, not that he's going to end up fighting for his life.

What I'm talking about I see right here (granted that it's easier to get into a flame war with someone who is only words on a page). Person #1 says something, and person #2 takes offense even if #1 didn't mean it that way. #1 doesn't say, "You misunderstood, sorry..." but rather decides they don't like #2's accusing tone, and respond in kind "How dare you...!" and suddenly a flame war erupts. This happens more frequently online, but it also happens between people face-to-face at parties, family gatherings, etc. All someone has to do is say something that another person *mistakes* as an insult to someone or something they care about: a person they admire, a cause that matters to them, an event that brings up bad memories, a religion they live their life by (hey, I've seen a guy verbally attacked for just wearing an teeshirt that said "Atheist")....suddenly and before even the two sides understand what's happened, they're arguing loudly, people are staring and the whole thing looks like it's getting way out of hand.

Why would this so *very* common situation, so very HUMAN situation, so very unintentional and honest situation be so very unlikely? So many of you are insisting that this could never happen. Really? Never? Not even at that family dinner where the Dom's sister brings over her new and very stupid boyfriend and the guy says something innocent...but really, really, really sensitive? Something that the Dom doesn't think any boyfriend should ever say to his girlfriend's sibling? Not even then?

Because for me it's not common. I guess it's that simple. I consider dignity and free will to be very important things. I generally choose to be with someone with strong dignity and strong free will.

So I just can't see it happening over something unless it were important and personal to the individual, and I can't see that if it happened, someone else's opinion about it would matter. People do what they do. I don't get caught up in opinions about it.

I think the key to me in this situation is about "what everyone else thinks" about it, creating tension. Sure, it can, if you care about what everyone else thinks. But I don't. Not if it's presented in a tone of hostility or correction. I'm definitely of the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, then I'll lob it back and point out all your sins" sorta school. I also, in real life, don't believe in giving advice or sympathy unless it's solicited. So this scenario just won't resonate with me at all.

My usual response to real life insult is to not hear it, deflect, make a joke about it, defuse.

Interesting conversation, though.

 

[CutieMouse]

Why would this so *very* common situation, so very HUMAN situation, so very unintentional and honest situation be so very unlikely? So many of you are insisting that this could never happen. Really? Never? Not even at that family dinner where the Dom's sister brings over her new and very stupid boyfriend and the guy says something innocent...but really, really, really sensitive? Something that the Dom doesn't think any boyfriend should ever say to his girlfriend's sibling? Not even then?

Maybe because my experience is with dominant men who are fabulously witty and brilliant, which means they'd either decide it wasn't worth disrupting the event/gathering/evening (and say nothing), or (if necessary) they'd verbally cut the guy to ribbons and walk away before he even knew it was happening. LOL

 

[Recidiva]

Maybe because my experience is with dominant men who are fabulously witty and brilliant, which means they'd either decide it wasn't worth disrupting the event/gathering/evening (and say nothing), or (if necessary) they'd verbally cut the guy to ribbons and walk away before he even knew it was happening. LOL

That too.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Why would this so *very* common situation, so very HUMAN situation, so very unintentional and honest situation be so very unlikely? So many of you are insisting that this could never happen. Really? Never? Not even at that family dinner where the Dom's sister brings over her new and very stupid boyfriend and the guy says something innocent...but really, really, really sensitive? Something that the Dom doesn't think any boyfriend should ever say to his girlfriend's sibling? Not even then?

For exactly the situation you spelled out about the family dinner. It is about personalities and for the most part the way you operate within the world, the way you deal with life situations. For me, and also F, such a situation as you describe here is not a reason to resort to violence. Both of us are more than capable of voicing our disapproval etc., without feeling we need to use physical violence.

Sheesh, at 18 I took on my sister's boyfriend who was much older and bigger than me for the physical abuse he was dishing out to her (broken bones, black eyes, actually her whole face black and blue), but I did it with words, and none of those words were swear words, and he was for the first time in his life lost for words and unsure of what to do next. He didn't dare raise a hand to me.

My experience is there are people who associate with others who see physical violence as acceptable, if not the first choice of ways to deal with problems and thus accept it as OK themselves if they didn't already so of course, if you look at their life there are going to be many incidents where violence was/is involved, and a belief this is common. For F and me and our families, it is not common (actually apart from my sister's brush with DV which I do not see as the type situation being discussed here, there have never been incidents of violence at family dinners or in social settings within the open community), it is not acceptable, it is not the way to deal with problems, it is not honourable, and it is not a part of our lives because we choose not to allow it to be or be around those who do. I also don't see where it comes into consideration as acceptable based on someone being a Dom or submissive etc....we are all people, and being part of this lifestyle does not equate to being quick to violence even though it is perhaps the perception some in the mainstream may assume we are.

I do not equate situations which you put forth, as have some others, where feelings are slighted as the same as fighting back if you are attacked randomly on the street and have to fight for your life...that situation wouldn't require any thought at all and I wouldn't hestitate to protect myself or those around me, but it is also not common in one person's life (as in daily/weekly/monthly) nor the same as taking offence at mere words and having the choice to move on. A lot of it has to do with choice and your own acceptability of violence within your life and circle of family and friends. LOL, it actually astounds me when I think of the number of relatives I have (siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles etc) of which none have ever lived violently or been in a position to think it common or acceptable to react with your fists or weapons, even though many have been in the military and one other was actually a boxing champion as well!!

Catalina