Dominant - Love Involved

[lil_slave_rose]

Oh well I don't go as far as rolling my eyes because we all start out thinking it is something ultra special, then we meet the one who teaches us that though it may very well be, it isn't a gift so much as a mutual satisfaction of needs, hopefully...and what is expected.

Catalina

*shrugs* to each their own. the One i found, was the One who told me how special of a 'gift' my submission is. so i guess some of us meet the one who teaches us that it IS indeed a gift as well as a satisfaction of needs....you made a pretty general and biased statement that THE ONE will teach us it's not a gift but a 'satisfaction of needs' so i figured i'd throw out there that's not ALWAYS the case......

 

[catalina_francisco]

*shrugs* to each their own. the One i found, was the One who told me how special of a 'gift' my submission is. so i guess some of us meet the one who teaches us that it IS indeed a gift as well as a satisfaction of needs....you made a pretty general and biased statement that THE ONE will teach us it's not a gift but a 'satisfaction of needs' so i figured i'd throw out there that's not ALWAYS the case......

I am not meaning to offend..for some it is how it is seen, for others it is not so much...as in all things, we all do things differently at some point or it would get boring.

Catalina

 

[CutieMouse]

The argument that "submission is a gift" makes no sense whatsoever to me.

I'd probably consider the belief that "submission is a gift" to be a disqualification to become my Lover, so this would be another one of those "tailored to the individual" things, IMO.

(I am so tempted to start a thread, to re-skin this dead horse, but I'll be good and keep my fingers still. )

 

[catalina_francisco]

The argument that "submission is a gift" makes no sense whatsoever to me.

I'd probably consider the belief that "submission is a gift" to be a disqualification to become my Lover, so this would be another one of those "tailored to the individual" things, IMO.

(I am so tempted to start a thread, to re-skin this dead horse, but I'll be good and keep my fingers still. )

I think for some it is thought to be a gift because they see it as special, or something to be treasured, which for us it definately is special as part of the whole special package of the relationship we share...but it is not a gift for us, no more than his dominance is a gift for me, it is what it is, nothing less, nothing more, it just is.

Catalina

 

[Ice2000]

I am a sadist. 24/7/365. In my heart and soul I love to inflict pain on others.

I am a Top. I will be the active party in a scene and inflict pain on just about anyone who is willing to have me do so. I am quite happy with negotiations that consist of:
Me - "What do you want done?"
them - "Cane me!"
Me - "Any places I can't hit you, do you want lasting marks, visible marks?"
them - "No"
Me - "Okay, fine up against the cross!"

I am a Dominant. And as such, I am willing to accept the surrender of power from another human being, and I accept the RESPONSIBILITY that goes with the acceptance and exercise of that power. I do not accept responsibility for other human being willy-nilly. If someone wishes to submit to my authority and control, it will be discussed thoroughly and well. I will know what they expect to get out of it, and what they expect to be able to put into it. They will know what MY expectations and requirements are as well.

And submission is a gift? *coughs* I've shared my thoughts on that particular line of romantic/fantasy/wishful thinking elsewhere and won't hijack this thread with a rant on that topic...

I love Geoff because he comes right at you ... and is proud of his position and what he does.. ya just gotta respect that. I also agree that if your looking for what he offers no mental or emotional connections are necessary.


How Ever...

If your into power and control of another person, a strong connection is necessary. Call it a connection a link a gift, what ever you call it, it exists. Without it you might physically dominate but you will never have the control I look for in a sub.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I am not meaning to offend..for some it is how it is seen, for others it is not so much...as in all things, we all do things differently at some point or it would get boring.

Catalina

i was not offended just wanted to throw it out there that it's not the same for everyone.....that's all

 

[Netzach]

see below

 

[Netzach]

...and for some of us the opportunity to serve is the gift and the privilege, silly me. The day a submissive acts like I'm being done a favor and sticks around long will be a freezy pop day in hell.

 

[FluteMaster]

Ok, so I am an incurable romantic -but I like the fact the the submission is a gift.

On the other hand, I will explain what I mean by that.

1) It has to be given; A submissive is not obliged per se to grant me that submission. It is her's to give to me. Until that time, when it is agreed that she offers it and I receive that relationship does not exists.

2) It's best given freely; I know that there are pro subs, and I am not decrying them or their valuable skills. However, for me, D/s is about emotional connectiion, about a relationship which goes beyond an actual scene. The most powerful submission is one that exists as an underlying aspect of the relationship, and that happens over time.

3) It's a gift for me; My character as a Dominant finds it's happiest place when shared with someone who wishes to be and enjoys being my submissive. She is giving me the space to be myself. Again, she gives it to me, not that I demand it of her despite her wishes. (NOTE - I am talking about the underlying agreement. There may rightly be times when I will insist when my submissive does not want, but as my submisive she accedes because I am her dominant).

4) One can only give what one already owns; Submission is the giving up of self determination to a greater or lesser extent. However, if one desn't have that awaremness or self understanding, then one cannot "give" it to someone else. The best submisives, in my limited experience, are strong in their self awareness and not doormats. They give of themselves and of their strength.

5) My Dominance is also a gift back; All that I have said above applies equally to me as a Dominant. I choose to exercise it, and I choose with whom I excercise it. Just because someone wants to give me that gift it doesn't mean that I am obliged to accept it. If they think they are doing me a favour, then it isnt a gift anymore, it's a bribe.

LOL - well, that's my rant over.

 

[FluteMaster]

We know that submiision is a gift and most of us feel that we have to click with a potential PYL.

Ok now we need the point of view of the PYL. Can you successfully Dom anyone or must there be a connection also.

Will you Dom anyone who asks or do you need the connection.

thanks

Miss Diva

So, in the light of my post above..I will not Dom someone who I don't feel comfortable with at an emotional level. But that is because D/s is, for me, an emotional head-space activity. Until I have that connection, I just can't do it.

 

[the captians wench]

...and for some of us the opportunity to serve is the gift and the privilege, silly me. The day a submissive acts like I'm being done a favor and sticks around long will be a freezy pop day in hell.

See this is my standing. I feel like it's a honor and a cherished gift to be allowd to serve, to be allowd to please. It's what makes me happy so being allowd to do it is a very special gift.

On the other hand, I know Jounar feels it a gift for me to want to do it. The fact i want to serve and please him is the ultimite present.

So I guess we ballance each other out. *shrug*

 

[JMohegan]

Ok, so I am an incurable romantic -but I like the fact the the submission is a gift.

On the other hand, I will explain what I mean by that.

1) It has to be given; A submissive is not obliged per se to grant me that submission. It is her's to give to me. Until that time, when it is agreed that she offers it and I receive that relationship does not exists.

2) It's best given freely; I know that there are pro subs, and I am not decrying them or their valuable skills. However, for me, D/s is about emotional connectiion, about a relationship which goes beyond an actual scene. The most powerful submission is one that exists as an underlying aspect of the relationship, and that happens over time.

3) It's a gift for me; My character as a Dominant finds it's happiest place when shared with someone who wishes to be and enjoys being my submissive. She is giving me the space to be myself. Again, she gives it to me, not that I demand it of her despite her wishes. (NOTE - I am talking about the underlying agreement. There may rightly be times when I will insist when my submissive does not want, but as my submisive she accedes because I am her dominant).

4) One can only give what one already owns; Submission is the giving up of self determination to a greater or lesser extent. However, if one desn't have that awaremness or self understanding, then one cannot "give" it to someone else. The best submisives, in my limited experience, are strong in their self awareness and not doormats. They give of themselves and of their strength.

5) My Dominance is also a gift back; All that I have said above applies equally to me as a Dominant. I choose to exercise it, and I choose with whom I excercise it. Just because someone wants to give me that gift it doesn't mean that I am obliged to accept it. If they think they are doing me a favour, then it isnt a gift anymore, it's a bribe.

LOL - well, that's my rant over.

FM, to help put your comments in perspective, would you please provide a brief description of the scope of D/s in your relationship?

Is it bedroom/dungeon/special romantic time only, or does the D/s dynamic extend to the mundane realities of life?

In referring to mundane realities, I am asking if the D/s dynamic applies to things like:

- Allocation of chores (e.g., cooking & cleaning up when you eat in).

- Finances (e.g., decisions as to who pays for what, how much will be spent, etc.)

- Allocation of the submissive's non-working hours between time spent attending to her own personal needs (sleep, errands, etc.), time spent with friends & family, and time spent with you.

 

[FluteMaster]

FM, to help put your comments in perspective, would you please provide a brief description of the scope of D/s in your relationship?

Is it bedroom/dungeon/special romantic time only, or does the D/s dynamic extend to the mundane realities of life?

In referring to mundane realities, I am asking if the D/s dynamic applies to things like:

- Allocation of chores (e.g., cooking & cleaning up when you eat in).

- Finances (e.g., decisions as to who pays for what, how much will be spent, etc.)

- Allocation of the submissive's non-working hours between time spent attending to her own personal needs (sleep, errands, etc.), time spent with friends & family, and time spent with you.

Puzzled - am I being interviewed for something?

My comments were about the statement "Submission is a gift"

You are welcome to respond in that vein.

 

[JMohegan]

Puzzled - am I being interviewed for something?

My comments were about the statement "Submission is a gift"

You are welcome to respond in that vein.

It seems reasonable to me that a difference in scope would explain a difference in perspective.

To me, describing submission as a gift is like describing marriage as a blissful union between perfect soulmates. It may feel that way at times, but as a description of the day-to-day experience sustained over a significant period of time, it's really quite misleading.

 

[BiBunny]

...and for some of us the opportunity to serve is the gift and the privilege, silly me. The day a submissive acts like I'm being done a favor and sticks around long will be a freezy pop day in hell.

That's what it is for me, but nobody ever accused me of being a romantic.

 

[FluteMaster]

It seems reasonable to me that a difference in scope would explain a difference in perspective.

To me, describing submission as a gift is like describing marriage as a blissful union between perfect soulmates. It may feel that way at times, but as a description of the day-to-day experience sustained over a significant period of time, it's really quite misleading.

An interesting philospical point, but not one I would necessarily agree with.

I felt strongly enough about the idea of submission as a gift because I wanted to highlight the "Giving" aspect of it. It's not a right on my behalf to receive it, (I do not expect submission from anyone), and when it is granted and received, then I see it is a gift given freely by one person to another who then accepts it and responds accordingly.

Of course, how that submision is conducted is a completely different ball game, and beyond the scope of this discussion.

Maybe I am talking more about the "what" that is being granted, and you talking more about how it actually plays out. On the other hand, I am not actually sure what you disagree with in regards to my understanding of the "free gift" aspect of it.

 

[JMohegan]

An interesting philospical point, but not one I would necessarily agree with.

I felt strongly enough about the idea of submission as a gift because I wanted to highlight the "Giving" aspect of it. It's not a right on my behalf to receive it, (I do not expect submission from anyone), and when it is granted and received, then I see it is a gift given freely by one person to another who then accepts it and responds accordingly.

Of course, how that submision is conducted is a completely different ball game, and beyond the scope of this discussion.

Maybe I am talking more about the "what" that is being granted, and you talking more about how it actually plays out. On the other hand, I am not actually sure what you disagree with in regards to my understanding of the "free gift" aspect of it.

I understand the point that a D/s relationship must be entered into voluntarily, and of course I agree. In fact, I don't actually know anyone who would disagree with that assertion.

When I talk about submission, you're right - I am addressing the way it "actually plays out".

As for the " 'what' that is being granted", in a relationship with me she is making a commitment to (among other things): come when I call, obey when I command, serve when I need her to, etc. ....... even when she's tired or bored or irritable or wishing she could be doing something else.

FM, a few posts up you wrote that: "D/s is, for me, an emotional head-space activity."

D/s represents an emotional exchange for me as well, but it is also the dynamic that governs the most practical and mundane details of our lives together.

As in marriage, every day is not Christmas and every moment is not champagne & roses. Submission applies to both the exquisite and the mundane. Sometimes it's delightful and truly delicious. Sometimes it's just really hard work.

For a submissive to expect anything else with me would be "romantic/fantasy/wishful thinking" (to borrow Geoff's phrase from post 4, above). In order to avoid misunderstandings, wasted time, and train wrecks down the road, I am compelled to describe submission in the most realistic terms.

 

[Netzach]

See this is my standing. I feel like it's a honor and a cherished gift to be allowd to serve, to be allowd to please. It's what makes me happy so being allowd to do it is a very special gift.

On the other hand, I know Jounar feels it a gift for me to want to do it. The fact i want to serve and please him is the ultimite present.

So I guess we ballance each other out. *shrug*

Yeah I do make it clear I'm tickled beyond belief and I adore and cherish the ones I adore and cherish! I even say "thank you" with amazing frequency when they do things for me.

 

[Netzach]

An interesting philospical point, but not one I would necessarily agree with.

I felt strongly enough about the idea of submission as a gift because I wanted to highlight the "Giving" aspect of it. It's not a right on my behalf to receive it, (I do not expect submission from anyone), and when it is granted and received, then I see it is a gift given freely by one person to another who then accepts it and responds accordingly.

Of course, how that submision is conducted is a completely different ball game, and beyond the scope of this discussion.

Maybe I am talking more about the "what" that is being granted, and you talking more about how it actually plays out. On the other hand, I am not actually sure what you disagree with in regards to my understanding of the "free gift" aspect of it.

Personally I don't understand how anyone actually gets submission without a mindset of some entitlement. I may have insecure days, but I do feel, at base level, that I am entitled to the service I get from the people I get it from. It's not like I walk through the world demanding submission of every lamp post and mailman on my route, but I can look in the mirror and honestly feel like I get what I require and expect and deserve. That's why it doesn't feel as much like "gift giving" but H expressing the natural order of the world between him and me. M and stud too, in less overt and consistent ways - but with any of these people, in major ways, my desires will be the governing factor. Because I'm a fucking brilliant, beautiful, and willful woman who makes things happen - not because someone's bestowing me with his favor.

 

[Quixotica]

Ok now we need the point of view of the PYL.

Hey! I am new. Can someone tell me what "PYL" means?

TYVM.

 

[CutieMouse]

Hey! I am new. Can someone tell me what "PYL" means?

TYVM.

"PYL/pyl": Literotica lexicon laid started by the deliciously wicked AngelicAssasin; shorthand for Dominant/Master/Mistress/Top and submissive/slave/bottom.

As for the whole "gift" thing, I fail to see the act/action of submission to be a gift, as those behaviours are part of who I am, and how I express my Love and Devotion to those who deserve it. It would be like saying every time I hug a Friend, I'm giving them the "gift" of a hug, when I'm simply hugging them because it feels right.

On the flip side, I feel the same applies for a PYL- they are simply expressing their feelings towards whomever they are in charge of, in a manner which works for them; thus Topping/Domming/etc isn't really a "gift" in my book, either.

 

[intothewoods]

Netzach - I don't see why both of you aren't right. You deserve to get exactly what you want out of life and love, right? But you also appreciate that your pyl is special and, maybe, kind of like a gift, because otherwise you'd just be with any old painslut on the street. Or something like that.

CutieMouse - You never give a hug to someone because they might need it?

I don't know - it just seems like splitting hairs. I agree with the - I'm good enough, smart enough, pretty enough, and doggonit, people like me - chain of thought, but I can also see that if I find someone very special, than it is something of a gift from the universe.

Well, I could have articulated this better, but I gotta run. The mundane duties of life call. Maybe I can drink champagne later.

 

[the captians wench]

Yeah I do make it clear I'm tickled beyond belief and I adore and cherish the ones I adore and cherish! I even say "thank you" with amazing frequency when they do things for me.

And those two little words from the one you are serving at the time can be like christmas morning x1000

 

[FluteMaster]

I understand the point that a D/s relationship must be entered into voluntarily, and of course I agree. In fact, I don't actually know anyone who would disagree with that assertion.

When I talk about submission, you're right - I am addressing the way it "actually plays out".

As for the " 'what' that is being granted", in a relationship with me she is making a commitment to (among other things): come when I call, obey when I command, serve when I need her to, etc. ....... even when she's tired or bored or irritable or wishing she could be doing something else.

FM, a few posts up you wrote that: "D/s is, for me, an emotional head-space activity."

D/s represents an emotional exchange for me as well, but it is also the dynamic that governs the most practical and mundane details of our lives together.

As in marriage, every day is not Christmas and every moment is not champagne & roses. Submission applies to both the exquisite and the mundane. Sometimes it's delightful and truly delicious. Sometimes it's just really hard work.

For a submissive to expect anything else with me would be "romantic/fantasy/wishful thinking" (to borrow Geoff's phrase from post 4, above). In order to avoid misunderstandings, wasted time, and train wrecks down the road, I am compelled to describe submission in the most realistic terms.

Somehow, I can't help feeling that we are talking about the same thing, but from different ends. And yes, D/s for me is expected to cover every aspect of the relationship, or it's not the D/s that I seek, though I may draw the lines differently from you in terms expectations.

We also obviously agree with the "headspace" aspect, and I would expect that there will be times when what you want is not in accordance with what your submisive desires - and yet you still require and expect it. (See point 3 in my earlier post.) However, if you push that too far, and too often, and she is ending up consistently unhappy etc, then her gift may be withdrawn.

And please don't take this the wrong way - but I have gained quite a lot of experience in relationships, including 2 marriages, so I do know about the ups and downs.

 

[BiBunny]

And those two little words from the one you are serving at the time can be like christmas morning x1000

God, yes. Call me a bad subbie, but I absolutely will not even play with someone who doesn't express at least occasional appreciation for my submission.

So, yeah, in this thread, the running tally is that Bunny is not only a cynical bitch, but a brat to boot.