Dominant - Love Involved

[Netzach]

Per the OP, the topic of this thread is: "Will you Dom anyone who asks or do you need the connection."

The discussion has taken various twists and turns.

If you scroll back through the thread, you'll see that my initial hypothesis was that a difference in scope of our D/s experiences might explain a difference in perspective on the phrase "submission is a gift".

FM disagreed. No problem.

However, in post 49, he went on to assert that "we are talking about the same thing" and that we "obviously agree with the 'headspace' aspect".

My comments about the differences were made in response to that assertion by FM, and further in response to rose's comments and questions about the differences, which were specifically addressed to me.

Bringing it back to the OP, I guess a connection is grand, but I think what I really need is evidence that the boy or girl "has his/her head on right" and I need it pretty early on. Otherwise, it's just a beating. Which is dandy.

 

[JMohegan]

Bringing it back to the OP, I guess a connection is grand, but I think what I really need is evidence that the boy or girl "has his/her head on right" and I need it pretty early on. Otherwise, it's just a beating. Which is dandy.

Yes, having her "head on right" is important indeed.

What I've found is that if she has her head on right..... and her personality, sense of humor, outside interests, ethical grounding, and mental faculties are compatible with mine..... and our needs & desires are well matched...... and she just "gets" me, and I just "get" her....... then a meaningful connection just naturally forms.

This is sort of a cart/horse thing. It's not so much that I need the meaningful connection itself, but rather that the connection is naturally borne out of the other prerequisites I have for spending time in a personal relationship.

However, you made a really good point several days ago, Netzach.

One of the things that is really cool, however, is that we can make incredible and intense connections with people we hardly know with SM as the language. Everything boils down to time, effort and risk. Doing SM with people you don't know is heavier on the risk side, but can have a really lasting and wonderful upside to it. I think that really gets overlooked a lot.

That does get overlooked, and it's not something I have ever done. But I can definitely see the potential in what you've described.

 

[intothewoods]

Per the OP, the topic of this thread is: "Will you Dom anyone who asks or do you need the connection."

The discussion has taken various twists and turns.

If you scroll back through the thread, you'll see that my initial hypothesis was that a difference in scope of our D/s experiences might explain a difference in perspective on the phrase "submission is a gift".

FM disagreed. No problem.

However, in post 49, he went on to assert that "we are talking about the same thing" and that we "obviously agree with the 'headspace' aspect".

My comments about the differences were made in response to that assertion by FM, and further in response to rose's comments and questions about the differences, which were specifically addressed to me.

I'm aware of the OP's topic, and that this thread has taken different twists and turns. I fairly sure my post about wearing underwear with bows on it could be viewed as off-topic.

My issue was with your response to "post 49," but it wasn't to me, so I'll drop it. I wouldn't have responded at all, but I admit I was feeling protective.

Since we're all off on twists and turns - my own feeling, as I said to Netzach above - is that I certainly don't have physical experience in D/s, and I am very new to all of this. However, how I view submission and D/s isn't less valid. It's just different, as we have all said, I believe. I can't really know myself as a submissive or D/s if I don't think about it as well as live it.

This is only a somewhat related rant, but what the hell: From time to time, there are well-intentioned posts to say, it will be different when you are together 24/7. My reaction is, NO SHIT. I'm 32 and I'm no moron. In fact, I'm pretty self-aware.

I often post in a playful way or even in a sappy, sad way, when I'm feeling down, because (with the exception of one friend) this is the one place where I know people who are part of the lifestyle. Do you have any idea how hard that is? It's a pretty lonely fucking place to be. I don't need to be reminded that what I have is just a pale shadow of a 24/7 life. I got it. Thanks.

 

[intothewoods]

If you've read a lot of the materials that spend a lot of time on the gift analogy you wouldn't think I was overstating anything. *chuckle* just ask intothewoods, it seems.

Well, when you spend all day pretending to flog yourself with your pretend flogger, you sometimes forget to have pretend conversations...

That was a joke, btw. I'm honestly really having a hard time at the moment, and I probably took all of this a bit too personally, which I usually try not to do. You know women! We're just so damn emotional.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm aware of the OP's topic, and that this thread has taken different twists and turns. I fairly sure my post about wearing underwear with bows on it could be viewed as off-topic.

My issue was with your response to "post 49," but it wasn't to me, so I'll drop it. I wouldn't have responded at all, but I admit I was feeling protective.

Since we're all off on twists and turns - my own feeling, as I said to Netzach above - is that I certainly don't have physical experience in D/s, and I am very new to all of this. However, how I view submission and D/s isn't less valid. It's just different, as we have all said, I believe. I can't really know myself as a submissive or D/s if I don't think about it as well as live it.

This is only a somewhat related rant, but what the hell: From time to time, there are well-intentioned posts to say, it will be different when you are together 24/7. My reaction is, NO SHIT. I'm 32 and I'm no moron. In fact, I'm pretty self-aware.

I often post in a playful way or even in a sappy, sad way, when I'm feeling down, because (with the exception of one friend) this is the one place where I know people who are part of the lifestyle. Do you have any idea how hard that is? It's a pretty lonely fucking place to be. I don't need to be reminded that what I have is just a pale shadow of a 24/7 life. I got it. Thanks.

Intothewoods,

If you review the thread, you'll see that my response to post 49 was written after FM's post 51, which asserted:

But your way works for you and yours, and mine works for me and mine, and it would appear we both are happy with it.

In fact, my response (found in post 54) included this validation for the relationship as he described it: "In your most recent post to Netzach, you just described your 'way' as working for you and yours, and making both of you happy. I do not dispute either of those facts."

If he had expressed loneliness, or sadness, or frustration with your current situation, or described it as a "pale shadow" of what he wants, my response to him would have been entirely different.

As to your question here, my answer is - yes. I know what the "lonely fucking place" you describe feels like, and I am sorry for your pain.

 

[FluteMaster]

If you are unsure where that came from, then I am assuming you came to the perspective that submission is a gift from your own intuition or from some small-but-inspiring smippet out there. If you've read a lot of the materials that spend a lot of time on the gift analogy you wouldn't think I was overstating anything. *chuckle* just ask intothewoods, it seems. Just look around the community and see the reception anyone who doesn't spout the same line gets - "Submission is a gift and SM MUST be SSC."

Well, you I'm not aware of having read much on the "Submission is a gift" thing elsewhere, so I have to say that I think it is probabkly more just soft and fluffy way of looking at things

And as for SM MUST be SSC, well no; I disagaree with the must. I ride a motor bike, it's not that safe, and I'm probably insane for doing it - but I still enjoy it.

As for who can be more messed up and how, I believe that maipulative, toxic and downright dangerous people come in all shapes and flavors - some of them the meekest and most compliant you can imagine. As for breaking people - I don't know that someone is going to do a 180 because of an analogy.

THis is very frustrating, because I specificaly said "potential is greater for Subs than for Doms (note greater - not unique)" Subs can be manipulative and can screw up heads - I have suffered from that so I speak from experience. BUT I believe than on balance, submissives are more vulnerable to abuse.

They're either going to care about people who are voluntarily putting themselves into a position of vulnerability because they can empathize with them or they lack the empathy or care to be able to do that.

You may well be right - and lots of people ignor speeding signs. It don't mean that they aren't worthwhile.

Look, it works for you, like you said, great. I am passionately pointing out why it does not work for me and how it feels when it is so ubiquitously in ever nook cranny and darkened corner of your community - AND how it feels when it colors the attitude of your potentials - the scarcity of men who feel that they are there for ME and not the other way around is appalling. And frankly, without that mindset, that person is not, IMO suitable. My entire concept of who is and isn't submissive hinges on service and desire to serve, so showing up purporting to serve by giving me a list of reasons why I'd better remember to respect you and a complex list of your needs, rather than trying to determine mine, is failing at interview.

Point taken, and I agree with you. But I would suggest we are talking about two different things.

ok -what we haven't tried to define is submission. Submission is, by it's definition putting yourself under someone else's authority. When I exert my authority in that case, I am therefore being a dominant. I decide, they obey. So why are they doing it? Well, hopefully because they wish to serve me, to submit to me. But why that? because they wish to, because they want to for what they also get out of it.

If they are doing it purely for their own kicks, then they will get bored pretty quickly. HOWEVER, I also recognise that a submissive may start at one point and grow into deeper and more willing service. My aim would be to enable that submissive to seek a more "giving to please my PYL" and less "Giving to please myself".

Looking back, I still think I'm struggling here. But hopefully it helps.

However, I sympathise with the difficulty of subs who are "self proclaimed uber subs and don't you forget it". I've had that from some female subs, and I have just walked away. However good they look on paper, the connection just isn't there.

 

[intothewoods]

If he had expressed loneliness, or sadness, or frustration with your current situation, or described it as a "pale shadow" of what he wants, my response to him would have been entirely different.

As to your question here, my answer is - yes. I know what the "lonely fucking place" you describe feels like, and I am sorry for your pain.

For whatever reason, there is some confusion about his statement - "mine works for mine and we are both happy." By his way, I believe he was referring to his outlook, his philosophy, and what he wants in a 24/7 relationship, not our "current situation."

ETA: In other words, what he wants from a 24/7 relationship is also what I want.

But thank you for your kind words.

 

[kittyblack]

ai yi yi!

i could write a book here
but i wont. ill try not to anyway.

ive played for pay in the past as a dom but never truly enjoyed it.
i look like (one of the many) domme stereotypes & can act like a
mean bitch so it wasnt too hard.

despite nearly everyone i know socially being into
the scene, the lifestyle, whatever etc, i was NEVER
ONCE involved with anyone i CARED about who was into
anything like this. i was vanilla, it was work, end of story.

fast forward my 20s, im THIRTY EIGHT now

i am in a situation so complex & new to me
that all i can do is read everything i can, keep
my fingers x'd & ride it out to see what happens.

im in a very caring, getting to be emotionally close
(but fundamentally NSA) thing with this guy who
wants to be a submissive to me but SO isnt.

weve known each other not quite 2 yrs
now & been sexually involved for about a yr.

most of whats up with us is more of the fun
tied up spanking kinda stuff but a few times
it has gotten very intense, very headtrippy ...
& every time, its happened out of fucking NOWHERE!

in addition,
he has to have the MOST incredibly dominant
vibe ive ever felt anyone put out in my life.

he doesnt see it (he doesnt see a lot of stuff
about himself but eh we've got a ways to go
with the self-exploration ... for both of us)


even stranger to me:
i respond to him so submissively i cant even believe it!!!!
while im not a *real* top (whatever that is), ive never been
particularly submissive either.

i go on my knees to blow him & BAM
im instantly wet just from kneeling!!!!
he tells me to do something, just like that, im practically coming.
its insane!!!!
(& awesome!)

ill tie him up, do stuff to him, etc but every time,
it cracks me the fuck up cause he SO tops from the bottom!!!!

even tho hes the one on his knees kissing my feet,
it was HIS IDEA TO DO IT & i feel like i am the
submissive simply because i am submitting to his fantasy!!!!
(not that i put much thought into it before but yeah
i kinda felt like that back then as well cause the subs
nearly always dictated action that went on in the scene)

this is all so new to me & so complicated. plus we are still
playing out a power exchange thing (which bothers me a little
but we are working on it - normally, im very egalitarian
when it comes to my sexlife & even sex games. i dont
feel the need to have either of us be in a position of power
but hes been very mistreated in the past so im ok with
sitting back & letting him have whatever control he needs
until he KNOWS nothing bad is going to happen to him
- not by my hand anyway - even if that control is playing
that *I* am in control!!!!)

fuck.
i dont even know where im going with this anymore
& it ended up being wayyyy longer than id intended.

skip to the end:
im new but im gonna stick around & read read read
& take this thing with him one day @ a time & see where we end up.

 

[FurryFury]

Kitty Black, you are having fun and exploring. I think that's great. I wish I were giddy with the awe of it all about now. Good for you both!

Fury

 

[JMohegan]

For whatever reason, there is some confusion about his statement - "mine works for mine and we are both happy." By his way, I believe he was referring to his outlook, his philosophy, and what he wants in a 24/7 relationship, not our "current situation."

Yes, there was a misunderstanding. Clearly.

Please consider, intothewoods, that if I had responded to his comments with the assumption or assertion that of course what he really wanted was something other than what he described, *that* would have been presumptuous in the extreme!

Not everyone wants a 24/7 relationship. Some people appreciate distance, and their relationships thrive for various reasons including the distance itself.

But thank you for your kind words.

You're welcome.

Thank you for clearing up the confusion on the thread.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Don't you get it? You have to agree and nod that there's no difference at all, no discernable difference worth anything, between being in a relationship with someone on another coast or country and one in the next room.

FWIW, my slave is live-out in another city. And we do a lot of things via the phone and via online communication. But saying "gee that's no less real than people in the same house" frankly never would occur to me. It's just as real - it's nowhere near as in-depth and in my face, and minimizing that difference, to me, makes no sense. You're not going to find me running around "my way is just as good..."

My way works for me well enough that it goes without saying. I'm certainly not going to intimate that it's interchangeable with someone living in and monogamous with their slave-as-lover. (God forbid, but that's another story)

netz, i have never ONCE said that it's exactly the same thing, as a matter of fact, i've said more than once that there ARE indeed alot of differences, so i'm not sure why the sarcasm about 'nodding and agreeing that it's exactly the same'

 

[lil_slave_rose]

1. Controlling the way you clean your own house, take your own medication, etc., is different than controlling the way you serve his personal needs of that type.

2. Taking care of his mundane personal needs during short visits is different than taking care of his mundane personal needs day-to-day over a sustained period of time.


Those are the differences I see.

again, i have never argued that there is a difference in face to face vs the way we are doing it now, but it's not as significant of a difference as you make it out to be. if He's on medication, i remind HIm to take it, if He needs to get something done, it's up to me to remind Him. you don't know anything about the way that we interact on a day to day basis, or when He is visiting so i'm not sure how you can say just how much of a difference there is. i serve His needs from 2000+ miles away, obviously that's not the way you do it, and that's fine..but why knock the way i do it and try to make my relationship less than yours or anyone else's?

i do see it as different, but less than? no...i will never agree that my relationship is less than a couple who live together 24/7.....and i don't see what ANY of this had to do with the subject of 'submission being a gift'

 

[JMohegan]

again, i have never argued that there is a difference in face to face vs the way we are doing it now, but it's not as significant of a difference as you make it out to be. if He's on medication, i remind HIm to take it, if He needs to get something done, it's up to me to remind Him. you don't know anything about the way that we interact on a day to day basis, or when He is visiting so i'm not sure how you can say just how much of a difference there is. i serve His needs from 2000+ miles away, obviously that's not the way you do it, and that's fine..but why knock the way i do it and try to make my relationship less than yours or anyone else's?

Why indeed.

Do me the courtesy of providing a link to the post in which I "knock the way you do it" or declare that yours in "less" than mine or anyone else's.

In the absence of the same, I'll ask you to answer the following question.

Why, Rose, are you so eager to claim that I am denigrating your relationship when I have not done so?

 

[catalina_francisco]

The notion of one's submission as a precious commodity given to only special and deserving powers is much more commonly accepted as the "right" way.

Not kowtowing to the experts proposing this as right is seen as weird and iffy. If I sound kind of crusty it's because I'm tired of being beaten over the head with how precious and special and deserving of care and protection any and every submissive inherently is (?!)

I've had my heart ripped out, my vulnerabilities exploited, my shit stirred -- all the things that happen with a "underappreciated gift" if you want to frame it that way. And you know what? Every Dom has. And no one says a word about it because the PC BS du jour is that submissives have to be protected from everything and if you fail to do that, you are "abusing the gift." Additionally, no one says anything because it's not particularly butch to point out that you needed her more than she needed you, so thinking of yourself your love and your dominance as a gift is suddenly arrogant.

Yeah, it's a big brave ballsy RISK to put yourself on the line for someone. I think it's cool to acknowledge the risk inherent in submission, but honestly all the virginity-type hype about treasure and guarding it DOES make me feel like I'm supposed to go and bend over backwards to prove my worth or else I'm not properly valuing submission to community standards.

Um, no. Either the submissive thinks I'm worth serving or he doesn't. Running around to "prove my worth" is suddenly putting me in a one-down position I don't care for.

Beautiful post Netzach...actually all of what you have said on the thread is. You won't get an argument from me.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Why indeed.

Do me the courtesy of providing a link to the post in which I "knock the way you do it" or declare that yours in "less" than mine or anyone else's.

In the absence of the same, I'll ask you to answer the following question.

Why, Rose, are you so eager to claim that I am denigrating your relationship when I have not done so?

JM, it's not that you come out and say it so plainly, it's the words in which you use to make your point that make me feel like you are saying 'my way is better' and i'm not the only one who has seen it or 'felt' it....but i am stepping out of this one now, and moving on.....

 

[catalina_francisco]

JM, it's not that you come out and say it so plainly, it's the words in which you use to make your point that make me feel like you are saying 'my way is better' and i'm not the only one who has seen it or 'felt' it....but i am stepping out of this one now, and moving on.....

With all due respect rose, I get this argument levelled at me often too and invariably it is when I do not totally agree with what someone has said, or I have a different experience or perspective to voice, and never that I have uttered the words 'my way is better'.....those words are often the feelings of the person who chooses to take my words that way, not the way I intended, but still I get told it is what I am saying and thinking. I haven't seen it in JM's words either, but I have seen much of what he and Netzach both have had to say is not being understood by some simply because there is not an ability to understand what they are really saying, and could be because the interpretation applied by the reader is blocking that understanding, or perhaps it is just they are not in a position to see what they have nor felt or experienced in the same way as yet. Spme like to think they know what others are thinking, to the point of insisting it is clearly there in veiled comments when the reality is it only exists in the minds of those accusing others of thinking such thoughts.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

JM, it's not that you come out and say it so plainly, it's the words in which you use to make your point that make me feel like you are saying 'my way is better' and i'm not the only one who has seen it or 'felt' it....but i am stepping out of this one now, and moving on.....

I will remind you, Rose, that you addressed me first on this thread - putting up information on your relationship and outright asking me to explain how submission differs as it plays out in my world.

You asked, I answered.

Since you find my style objectionable, perhaps in the future it would be better not to address me in the first place.

 

[JMohegan]

With all due respect rose, I get this argument levelled at me often too and invariably it is when I do not totally agree with what someone has said, or I have a different experience or perspective to voice, and never that I have uttered the words 'my way is better'.....those words are often the feelings of the person who chooses to take my words that way, not the way I intended, but still I get told it is what I am saying and thinking. I haven't seen it in JM's words either, but I have seen much of what he and Netzach both have had to say is not being understood by some simply because there is not an ability to understand what they are really saying, and could be because the interpretation applied by the reader is blocking that understanding, or perhaps it is just they are not in a position to see what they have nor felt or experienced in the same way as yet. Spme like to think they know what others are thinking, to the point of insisting it is clearly there in veiled comments when the reality is it only exists in the minds of those accusing others of thinking such thoughts.

Thank you, Catalina.

 

[BiBunny]

Ok, maybe I'm just a little bit slow on the uptake here, but I don't understand why lately almost every thread has disintegrated into Real-Life 24/7 vs. Online/Long-Distance relationships.

I'm not exactly sure how you'd classify my relationship with B. As I've mentioned before on this board, when I'm at my parents' place (which isn't often nowadays), he and I are maybe 15-20 minutes from each other. When I'm in school (most of the time), we're just shy of being 2 hours apart. We're not exactly long-distance, but when I'm here at school, he's not just right down the road from me, either. We do a lot of our talking on Yahoo messenger when we're apart, but I wouldn't call it an online relationship because he doesn't "dominate" me through IMs. We see each other as often as we can between work, school (we're both grad students), and other "life" things. It's usually once every week or two. Admittedly, though, we have a pretty laid-back relationship.

I love this man with all my heart and soul, but truth be told, I'd probably murder him if we lived together 24/7. For example, he snores loudly enough to rattle the walls, so I usually only get a couple of hours of sleep when I spend nights with him. So, unless I could get used to his snoring in short order, I'd go insane from sleep deprivation. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of things about me that'd drive him batshit if we lived together.

What I'm trying to say is, our arrangement, however different it may be from others', works for us. It may not be as immediate as, say, cat's and F.'s, but that doesn't mean that cat denigrates my relationship with B. just because I couldn't stand to live with the man at this point in our lives. Lighten up a little, folks.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I never get it either. I have done it both ways, LDR and 24/7 face to face, and the facts are that as much as you may have a 24/7 mindset when living apart, no matter how much you wish it otherwise, there is a difference, but difference does not mean better of worse. What is does mean most to me is that there is in some ways more pressure as though in LDR you may have certain responsibilities, it isn't often quite the same as having those when in the same house. In LDR there is the added tension and pressure created by the distance and inconvenience, but face to face can be just as stressful. For one thing, with someone like F, you can look forward to being asked a million times a day to fetch coffee, no matter what you are doing, if you are bent over because you have damaged your back doing some other task, and he is not necessarily going to take pity and give you less to do, sometimes he may even increase the workload. Other times he will make me rest, but regardless, there is no getting away for a quite corner, or choosing to do a task when it is best suited to you as long as it is done by a certain time, no time to be off duty, even when you are asleep...when in LDR, those things are a luxury just as when face to face, seeing each other all the time is a luxury...sometimes. It is different and most of us tend to look at it through rose coloured glasses until we are actually in the same house and reality strikes. As I think JM said, there are days when it does not go so well and to claim it is always wonderful is not realistic. Both states have their good points, both have their bad.

Catalina

 

[intothewoods]

I feel somewhat guilty for having brought it into the thread. I was feeling sensitive and protective.

I'll admit - I thought JM knew exactly what FM meant, but brought in his post from another thread to say - you have no real life experience.

I will take JM at his word that FM's point wasn't clear, and I have now clarified that point (which is as much talking for him as I will do - I promise!), so that's all from me.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

With all due respect rose, I get this argument levelled at me often too and invariably it is when I do not totally agree with what someone has said, or I have a different experience or perspective to voice, and never that I have uttered the words 'my way is better'.....those words are often the feelings of the person who chooses to take my words that way, not the way I intended, but still I get told it is what I am saying and thinking. I haven't seen it in JM's words either, but I have seen much of what he and Netzach both have had to say is not being understood by some simply because there is not an ability to understand what they are really saying, and could be because the interpretation applied by the reader is blocking that understanding, or perhaps it is just they are not in a position to see what they have nor felt or experienced in the same way as yet. Spme like to think they know what others are thinking, to the point of insisting it is clearly there in veiled comments when the reality is it only exists in the minds of those accusing others of thinking such thoughts.

Catalina

with respect to you cat, i've seen you, yourself, say the same thing to JM in another thread, though i dont' remember what thread it was. and as i also said, i am not and have never said there is NO difference in real life and online, obviously there's differences, that's common sense..and i do understand Netzachs posts......what i get sick of is it constantly being pointed out. either way, as i said, i'm dropping it and moving on so that the thread can go on as well......

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I never get it either. I have done it both ways, LDR and 24/7 face to face, and the facts are that as much as you may have a 24/7 mindset when living apart, no matter how much you wish it otherwise, there is a difference, but difference does not mean better of worse. What is does mean most to me is that there is in some ways more pressure as though in LDR you may have certain responsibilities, it isn't often quite the same as having those when in the same house. In LDR there is the added tension and pressure created by the distance and inconvenience, but face to face can be just as stressful. For one thing, with someone like F, you can look forward to being asked a million times a day to fetch coffee, no matter what you are doing, if you are bent over because you have damaged your back doing some other task, and he is not necessarily going to take pity and give you less to do, sometimes he may even increase the workload. Other times he will make me rest, but regardless, there is no getting away for a quite corner, or choosing to do a task when it is best suited to you as long as it is done by a certain time, no time to be off duty, even when you are asleep...when in LDR, those things are a luxury just as when face to face, seeing each other all the time is a luxury...sometimes. It is different and most of us tend to look at it through rose coloured glasses until we are actually in the same house and reality strikes. As I think JM said, there are days when it does not go so well and to claim it is always wonderful is not realistic. Both states have their good points, both have their bad.

Catalina

i'm not sure where anyone has ever said that, i know i certainly haven't. there are days that even in the LDR it's not a good day, we 'argue' 'disagree' whatever...*shrugs* and i agree there are huge differences in online vs real time...my point has always been that it doesn't make it less than any other relationship, just different. you say other's posts are not being understood, i don't think mine are either..soooo once again, i am stepping out......

 

[Netzach]

I'll cut the relativist bullshit. We're all invested in our relationships, we all care about them. That doesn't make all of them 24/7 D/s. I've always argued against thinking of my slave as 24/7 because he doesn't live with me - there's a mindset he takes with him, but it needs my presence and attention to come to fruition. If we lived together I have no doubt that it would be more detrimental to this mindset than not.

I think catalina, who lives with F knows more about 24/7 D/s than I do. Because of that. I totally believe that.

I also think, that while I have some useful insight and Marquis and I have talked about poly in the past, he's in the trench in a way that I'm not and has more valid insight into what poly's about and a M/f/f household needs.

People who see one another once a year but are totally totallly 24/7 are like weekend crossdressers who tell you they know JUST what you're going through as a woman, if you're stuck with it all the time. Yeah, I get it. Long distance can have intensity, online can have veracity - but it's insulting when you are really doing this all the time physically, inextricably, to be called out as arrogant if you point out that you are living it and might actually have more on the line and insight into some aspect that doesn't come up unless or until you are both sharing living quarters.

 

[FluteMaster]

People who see one another once a year but are totally totallly 24/7 are like weekend crossdressers who tell you they know JUST what you're going through as a woman, if you're stuck with it all the time. Yeah, I get it. Long distance can have intensity, online can have veracity - but it's insulting when you are really doing this all the time physically, inextricably, to be called out as arrogant if you point out that you are living it and might actually have more on the line and insight into some aspect that doesn't come up unless or until you are both sharing living quarters.

I would hope that despite all my ranting and raving that I have never done that - and if that has been the impression that I give, then I apologise.

However, I think there is a sense that LDR people sometimes get that because they aren't 24/7 in the trenches physically with each other, that they don't have their own valid insights.

This thread is about "Connecting and Dominance", and sidetracked into "Submission as Gift". I have told my side of the story purely from the basis of how I see it and experienced it. I have tried to hear other people's insights on those subjects as well.

I have ignored the irrelevant arguments which seem aways degenereate into "my way is better / more valid / more real than yours".

However, I have found your possts particularly helpful.